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Man Hecdog and Tumbo are ridiculous fanboys. Pacman and Marquez BOTH great fighters (ATG, first round HOF). Let’s appreciate them without the idiocy please. SRedmond one of the few intelligent posters left on this board?

I have the rivalry at 2-2 in my own book. Pacman winner of 1st & 2nd fights and Marquez winner of 3rd & 4th fights. I don’t care what the official scorecards said.

Posted December 28, 2012 2:56 pm 


Pacquiao wanted to recreate the 1st round of the 1st fight—but go get the finish that slipped away in the 1st fight. Marquez knew Manny was going for the kill. JMM wasn’t even looking to win on points. Wasn’t concerned about it. JMM played possum and knew the way Pac was coming the perfect KO shot would eventually present itself — and if he was only alert enough he knew he could apply the finisher … That was the plan … Screw a decision you’re not going to get in 10 million years.

Posted December 21, 2012 5:25 pm 


I dont belive pacman strength or speed let him down he looked like he had plenty of both . he got to aggresive pressed for a ko and ran into a perfect right hand .now I dont think his old strength rotunie would hurt but pacman should have kept boxing punching and not to try and destroy his man which lead to him running in to that right hand

Posted December 20, 2012 10:52 pm 

Old Coot

@ Forreal: Ok just wait and see.

Posted December 20, 2012 8:27 pm 


Ariza wants to be Manny’s trainer.

Posted December 20, 2012 5:22 pm 


Why does Roach tolerate Big mouth Ariza?.

Posted December 20, 2012 5:20 pm 

te tumbo

“History will remember Manny Pacquiao as one of the best ever” but not when history is written by fight-fans like Me who utterly reject your promotional scenario. suffice it to say that Marquez won no less than 8 rounds in every one of their three previous bouts. inCluding the first fight in which Manny* would’ve had to win five rounds to prevail on the scorecards. i gave Pacquiao* three rounds and one round even. Marquez understandably and publicly declares that he will rely on power to prevail in their fourth encounter, which was the rematch that Team Punkuiao* had desperately avoided for Eight (8) F’n Years(?!). Pacquiao* predictably offers up his chin and jaw and Marquez detonates a grenade right in his face: “BOOM!”. nothing more to “dare” or prove. Mission Accomplished. the rivalry is OVER.

Posted December 20, 2012 3:07 am 


Rather 12/8

Posted December 20, 2012 2:52 am 


Old Coot is batz… Marquez was nearly KO’d in the 1st round of the 1st Pac-JMM fight… Most referees would have stopped it after the 3rd knockdown even though the rule was waved.. But JMM was inching up on Pacquiao with every fight, as the more technical boxer usually makes the better adjustments fight to fight… Marquez legitimately thought he should have won every fight, especially the last one … Psychologically JMM had the advantage in the 4th fight because he was getting knocked on his ass fewer times with each fight. He was also landing harder blows with each contest—and JMM also knew he was the most disciplined, most skilled, strongest, best trained, best coached, and best prepared athlete in of that ring on 12-07-2012 … Nothing will change this scenario.

Posted December 20, 2012 2:49 am 


…you’re nuts if you think PEDman will K.O anyone the likes of Marquez or Floyd;if anything he might get K.O’D again against a NOBODY if he’s not careful!!

Posted December 19, 2012 10:21 pm 

PEDcquiao is Clean

PEDcquiao is on anything, he passed the same tests as JMM!

Posted December 19, 2012 10:17 pm 

Old Coot

OK… Everybody just yuk it up all you want… This KO was legit and a Pac haters wet dream, so don’t forget to change your drawers haters. Because, what goes around, can easily come around. For both Marquez… AND FLOYD TOO! Probably by Pacquiao himself…. And that’s AFTER all the OSDT Floyd or Marquez could want.

Posted December 19, 2012 9:48 pm 

Old Coot

@ forreal… Give it a rest dude, FORREAL!…. Even you don’t REALLY think Pac was ever on anything… Just like Floyd didn’t… It was a duck tactic by Floyd and his minions like you from the very start.

Posted December 19, 2012 9:40 pm 


…looks to me that they got spooked by the Mayweather’s accusations,dragged their feet about the random testing to buy time for the proper “cleansing”process to take effect and all they got for their efforts was a controversial “win” against the 3rd fight with Marquez,followed by a loss against a jr,welter moving up in weight (Bradley),and one of the worse K.O. loss against his arch-nemesis Marquez…so is back to “shakes” for PEDman after an 0 for 3 without them!!

Posted December 19, 2012 9:29 pm 


It;s plenty obvious that without his “shakes’ or whatever the hell Ariza was giving PEDman(WINK WINK!!) his chances on going back on top in the division is precarious @ best…look what happened to Mcgwyre,Sosa,Armstrong,Ben Johnson and every other athlete that was exposed,were they ever the same?…NOO!!

Posted December 19, 2012 9:16 pm 

te tumbo

“. . . so Marquez’s plan was to get hit twice as much over 6 rounds . . .” HAIMAT, my boxing knowledge is wasted on notorious Pacturds* like yourself. suffice it to say that Marquez was not counting punches and was only focused on scoring the hardest punches. a departure from the boxing clinics he subjected Pacquiao* too in their previous bouts but, unlike Manny*, Marquez is a multi-dimensional ring-warrior able to retool, adapt, fine-tune, and develop entirely new fight-plans according to the opponent and situation. he’s not some lazy, distracted, single-fisted, one-dimensional puncher who relies on the same fight-plan for each bout regardless of the opponent. Btw, when it comes to drug-testing, don’t you dare try and include Pacquiao* in the same category as Marquez and Mayweather. they not only have never tested dirty, they’ve also NEVER rejected random and mutually applied OSTing. it’s become a standard element of every Mayweather contract and Marquez’s motto is “ANY test, ANY time. I’ve got NOTHING to hide”. including for his last bout v. Pacquiao* and Manny* once again declined to be rigorously tested and was KTFO anyway. the rivalry is OVER.

Posted December 19, 2012 9:02 pm 


,,,is back to the misterious “shakes” for PEDman…LOL!!,,,both men should take RANDOM BLOOD SAMPLES if they decide to go at it for a fifth time;looks like without his “shakes”,PEDman can’t cut the mustard uhh?

Posted December 19, 2012 8:59 pm 


LOL!!,and what exactly is this “program” Ariza is reffering to…anybody wanna take a guess??

Posted December 19, 2012 8:55 pm 

Ray Ray

U pactards r pathetic, excuses excuses that’s all I c. Mayweather this Marquez that, Helgado this, Roach that….Manny didn’t train hard etc etc fact is he’s lost 2 In a row, yeah the Bradley lose wasn’t a great decision but it go’s down as a lose…Basically any1 that beats Manny or is considered better than Manny must b on PEDs. Mayweather is the biggest name In making boxing clean, Marquez put on 6 pounds oh they must b on PEDs stop crying….Pathetic.

Posted December 19, 2012 8:26 pm 


little floyd would need to get back on the juice to fight martinez or alvarez – shouldn’t be a problem though as he was brough up on the juice with his dad and uncle dealing the stuf

Posted December 19, 2012 6:19 pm 


Floyd is a business man. He barely got past Cotto so he won’t fight a fast, strong middleweight like Sergio Martinez next. Wait until Martinez turns 40 and Floyd might fight him. I see Floyd fighting Canelo next. It’s a pick’em fight in my book. Pacquiao is already fallen, Floyd’s next. These guys are old and not even close to their prime. I expect Floyd to get beat in 2013 if he fights a live body that is.

Posted December 19, 2012 6:14 pm 


te tumbo, so Marquez’s plan was to get hit twice as much over 6 rounds, get his nose broken och almost knocked out only to knock Manny out with a devastating right hand? You’re a fan-boy al right. Why do you bring up Manny not accepting wife-beater Floyd’s demands in 2009? Again, Manny, not Floyd not Marquez has ever been caught doing PEDs so don’t go there. You’re just undermining your own credibility which is rock bottom so I understand what you’re saying after all. Cheers

Posted December 19, 2012 6:11 pm 

losers can’t make champs

The majority of Pacquiao’s titles were obtained without the egocentric ariza, so alex don’t talk in public of your utopian and boring world

Posted December 19, 2012 6:10 pm 


Floyd Money Mayweather vs Sergio Maravilla Martinez!

Posted December 19, 2012 6:07 pm 

te tumbo

REDMOND, i never claimed that Marquez was battering Pacquiao* from pillar to post. only that the fight unfolded exactly according to his publicly stated fight-plan. Marquez had discarded the fight-plan of simply winning more rounds. he did that in the previous three fights to no avail. instead, he was physically and mentally prepared to exploit predictable openings with more power and it paid-off exactly as he anticipated. also, you and others need to get off the “bust up” scenario. Marquez’s face post-fight displayed one cut on the bridge of his nose and little more. neither eye was cut or swollen shut and swelling everywhere else was minimal. Bottomline, Pacquiao* may have very well been ahead on the scorecards but Marquez executed a perfect role reversal by relying on powerpunching, a KD, and a KO. End of rivalry . . . Viva Marquez!

Posted December 19, 2012 6:00 pm 

te tumbo

i experienced a huge flash of revelation the moment Pacquiao* rejected Mayweather’s anti-doping challenge with a slew of utterly absurd excuses culminating in a defamation lawsuit against Mayweather. bottomline, Pacquiao* was either hiding something or hiding from Mayweather. i happen to believe it’s the latter and for obvious reasons. otherwise, there is NO credi ble excuse for rejecting harmless drug-testing and Pacquiao* is the ONLY fighter whose ever done so, which is suspect at best.

Posted December 19, 2012 5:53 pm 


Sorry Fight Aficionado I did not have those flashes when Marquez got on the scale… Vargas was known as a slacker in training and a guy who had trouble with discipline whereas Marquez is known as a HARD worker and when he enlisted the services of a strength coach it made sense that he would fully commit himself… He and Pac both tested negative UNLIKE Vargas who came back dirty and got knocked out anyway… Hmmmm think about that, Vargas juiced and ODH still stopped him… No excuses Marquez destroyed Manny and he went thru hell to do it….

Posted December 19, 2012 5:22 pm 

Fight Aficionado

Some were griping about Pac not using Ariza for awhile now. Agree he should go back to his old methods. As for Angel Heredia, the dude’s a widely reputed dope dealer. Anyone who saw Marquez get on the scale no doubt had flashes of the Vargas-De la Hoya weigh in. When Vargas was juiced to the gills and flexing like Mr Olympia.

Posted December 19, 2012 4:53 pm 


Agree, Manny you need to get back on that Juice.. You need those PEDS in your system.. fighting snother fighter loaded with PEDs while you’re not taking your PEDS is stupid..

Posted December 19, 2012 4:49 pm 


Angel Heredia is a Mexican national who lived in Laredo, Texas and utilized his family connections in Mexico to obtain steroids and other pharmaceuticals for athletes. Heredia explains how easy it is for athletes to use steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs and avoid detection.

He said he used family connections to pharmacies and labs in Mexico to help his business. For years, Mr. Heredia said, he helped his clients flout the rules and easily avoided detection. Substances like human growth hormone and the blood booster erythropoietin, or EPO, are still virtually impossible to detect, and “it is still easy to use testosterone” with fast-acting creams, he said.

Posted December 19, 2012 4:47 pm 


he wants PEDman back on the jungle juice.

Posted December 19, 2012 4:20 pm 


If Floyd Mayweather is the only skill barometer in the sport then pretty much EVERYONE else in boxing SUCKS, he is in a league of his own in that regard… That does not mean Marquez and Pacquiao are not topflight super skilled ATG fighters…The guys running behind Usain Bolt are STILL some of the tops in the world…

Posted December 19, 2012 3:26 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

As much as I hate to admit it, Gary is correct, no disputing that…

Posted December 19, 2012 3:23 pm 


Guys stop talking about Marquez skills remember how FLOYD MAYWEATHER schooled him….the fight is not even close…what skills again????????

Posted December 19, 2012 2:58 pm 


Mayweather beat them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Posted December 19, 2012 2:55 pm 

Big Ham

I beleive Manny’s punch resistance has left him. He’s taken harder shot’s in the pat. The Joshua Clottey clean uppercut he took was massive. Much harder than JMM’s 3rd round knockdown.

Posted December 19, 2012 2:55 pm 


Pretending Marquez strategy was to take all those HARD counters to the face in order to win is unrealistic… The fact that Juan was willing to do whatever it took to win is truly admirable and this is one of the GREAT victories of my generation of boxing…The irony is that the despite being in my mind the second best technician in the game (Mayweather 1st) Marquez utilized POWER to finally overcome Manny Pacquiao and leave nothing to debate or discussion.. For 3 fights JMM tried to plead his case by going to the judges, this time around he found the missing link (power to stop Manny at WW) and he ruthlessly applied it….

Posted December 19, 2012 2:54 pm 


What are you guys talking about Marquez skills, do you guys remember what Mayweather did to him he didn’t even win a single round!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted December 19, 2012 2:53 pm 


No one would EVER say that Manny is superior boxer to Marquez who does not have his athletic gifts… BUT he was using his “Athletic Gifts” to very good effect during long stretches of this bout… I watched this bout 4 times now and Pac Man was countering pretty nicely simply because he has the faster hands… JMM is one of my favorites and I hope to see him end on top, but he is pushing 40 and next time around father time and younger legs might not let him get the win…

Posted December 19, 2012 1:28 pm 


Te Tumbo, Marquez statements prefight were ultimately validated in the bout but the reality of the action KD, and KO aside showed Manny looking FAST, having a plan aside from simply rushing in and busting up JMM nicely as the rounds went on… We can all harken to the textbook KD, and the highlight reel KO to say JMM beat Pac Man from pillar to post but I for one saw Manny countering well and looking to get out of the way… The wildcard in this bout proved to be Marquez hitting harder and being stronger than previously seen before all credit to his work ethic and Heredia… But trying to ignore the jeopardy he was in during round 5 and what he had to overcome in order to get his win, only shortchanges him not Pac Man

Posted December 19, 2012 1:24 pm 

E in Denver

Te Tumbo- “..bottomline, Manny* is NOT in any way shape or form a superior boxer to Marquez..” Yes, you nailed it. Pac is a superior athlete but he has never been technically superior to Marquez. Marquez is 2nd to none in that department.

Posted December 19, 2012 1:08 pm 

E in Denver

Ariza is an overpriced personal trainer. This isn’t a bodybuilding contest, it is boxing. Pac can try to improve on his already impressive explosiveness. But it has little impact vs. Marquez who has already proven he can recover quickly from clean shots from a hard puncher like Pac. Pac has fought Marquez with & without Ariza. I can’t tell the difference. The best thing for Pac if he wants to keep fighting is to lay off sparring/fighting for a while & hope the brain damage he received can heal.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:57 pm 

te tumbo

“Pac Man actually looked better from a boxing standpoint than I had seen him in quite awhile . . .” REDMOND, you really need to pay more attention to the context of this rivalry to put their last fight into it’s proper perspective. Marquez had publicly declared that he would not be looking for a scorecard win and EVERYthing that transpired in the ring confirms his premeditated fight-plan. it was obvious from the start that Marquez was only interested in tagging Manny* with powerpunching leads and counters not combos and uppercuts, which should’ve earned him the win in the third fight. it was all one-twos or single powershots for Marquez resulting in the premeditated KO that Marquez insisted was the only way he would ever get the nod against Pacquiao*. bottomline, Manny* is NOT in any way shape or form a superior boxer to Marquez who proved it in their three previous bouts before dismissing Pacquiao’s* improved(?) boxing skills with his powerpunching KO fight-plan, which Marquez knew he could do because Pacquiao* has never been difficult to hit. Bold move by the ATG ring-warrior to charge down the barrel of Manny’s* cannons and defuse them once-and-for-all with his own brand of “Dinamita”. Manny’s* apologists need to finally face that reality. Marquez is and has always been greater.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:49 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Of course the worthless Ariza wants some more of Manny’s cash.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:28 pm 


Increasing strength can occur by the use of a scientific program, only couch potatoes believe that no one can physically better themselves without using drugs… Getting guys stronger and more fit is Ariza’s business.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:15 pm 

Cheese Cake

Well said

Posted December 19, 2012 12:14 pm 

Cheese Cake

That’s bs. Pacquiao’s strength didn’t seem to be the problem. He got caught. This is boxing. He looked much faster than Marquez too.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:13 pm 


Thats a DUMB comment, you guys act like you cannot get stronger by using specific training methods? Thats ridiculous if you focus on strength gains they can indeed be made… Nothing worse than clowns who never walked in a gym in their life acting like physical progress cannot be made without PED’s… Newsflash human beings have gotten stronger since the beginning of time using some form of resistance training… Be it rocks or nautilis….

Posted December 19, 2012 11:51 am 


At all*

Posted December 19, 2012 11:44 am 


“Ariza wants to get Pacquiao back on their strength training regimen so that he can increase Pacquiao’s strength” This doesn’t scream performance enhancing drugs all. lol

Posted December 19, 2012 11:42 am 


Ariza is just trying to elevate his status after Marquez strength coach trained him to be strong enough to actually hurt Pacquiao… Pac Man actually looked better from a boxing standpoint than I had seen him in quite awhile, when you strip out the 3rd round KD, and the obvious lights out KO, he was tagging JMM and avoiding alot of return shots… Mannys issue was not his strength or conditioning which did not fail him, the issue was his lack of respect for Marquez power… He had been tagged by JMM throughout 36 round and had NEVER been in trouble, suddenly he was flat on his back from ONE punch in the 3rd round and even after hurting him JMM tagged him with a shot that damn near spun him around and Manny took it…. Fast forward to round 6 and he walked into a hammer of a right hand that dropped him…

Posted December 19, 2012 11:10 am 


Hey Peej how is life now that you came out of the closet ?

Posted December 19, 2012 9:20 am 


What the hell are you talking about? PED punch. Look at Marq training program, while Manny was playing basketball.

Posted December 19, 2012 8:33 am 

Donaire is a Douche

Manny was not on his way to winning, he was on his way to sleeping.

Posted December 19, 2012 5:13 am 

boxatradumbas and ifyoudontseeitido are the same lying guy!

Forget it ! There won’t be a 5th fight! Move on everyone, its over.
What’s the point for the next fight, there’s nothing to bring to the table. There’s no reason or logic, just leave it alone and suck it up. No revenge and no redemption, there’s nothing.

Posted December 19, 2012 2:48 am 

Ray Ray

Nothing wrong with pac’s strength…it’s his defence, zero jab and lack of boxing I.Q, he only no’s 1 way. 2 late 2 change now…What strength training r they talking about here?…..hhmmmm

Posted December 19, 2012 2:46 am 


I agree with Arum. I think is logical after a great knockout.

Posted December 19, 2012 2:37 am 

John O’Neill

Pacquiao did look soft in the body for this fight. I couldn’t help noticing that.

Posted December 19, 2012 2:14 am 


You can’t strength train the jaw bone.

Posted December 19, 2012 1:55 am 


I don’t care what Ariza says you can’t strength train your jaw. Why can’t people just understand that pacquiao never saw that punch coming. Marquez was looking for the straight right hand to the jaw from the beginning. He said he was going to go for the KO and he did. Yea pacquiao was winning but guess what he didn’t . No decision no draw no DQ just a straight up KTFO. Yup give praise to Marquez he has manny’s number and always has.

Posted December 19, 2012 1:52 am 


so when they fight again if pacquaio happens to knock marquez out then of course they will push for a sixth fight. I think the only way they wont try and keep this series goin on forever is if its another knockout for marquez. We would have to seriously worry bout pac becomin a vegetable. All good cuz you know everytime these two step into the ring with each other its gonna b full on action. Its in their DNA, we should consider ourselves lucky to b around for this rivalry

Posted December 19, 2012 1:41 am 


It took Pac 23 fights to get more wins than loses against Morales and that was after he was already out of his prime. If Morales could of stayed in his prime for the 2nd fight Pac would of lost again

Posted December 19, 2012 1:21 am 


I never really thought Marquez was on the verge of degeat. He was knocked down 3 times in the first fight and fought back and was down in the second fight, still fought on, has been down against Diaz and Katsidis and still fought on. There is no quit. Yes he was winning those rounds handily just like he won round 1 of the first fight. difference is Marquez keeps getting up. The few times Ive seen Pac on the ground, 2 of those times he did not get back up

Posted December 19, 2012 1:19 am 

Josh Snow

It took the beaner 4 fights to beat Pacquiao. Mexcian’s fail !

Posted December 19, 2012 1:19 am 

te tumbo

NO. Marquez’s DEVASTATING KO punch put all of the Pacturd’s crap to rest by Mexicuting Pacquiao* Once-and-for-All. no more questions. no more doubts. Marquez is the greater fighter . . . Viva Marquez!

Posted December 19, 2012 1:17 am 


Obviously you never saw Marquez on the verge of defeat in rounds 5 and 6 lol, kinda puts your crap to rest.

Posted December 19, 2012 1:01 am 


Especially when Pacquiao does that stutterstep, herky-jerky jab, leap in, leap out stuff. Marquez has been timing that since the first fight. Continue enough and Marquez was going to end things just like they did. Boxtradamus is right.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:59 am 


I THANK you for the compliment but its not about ME. It’s about SKILLS and Boxing IQ. Just take the guy who has more SKILLS and Boxing IQ each time and YOU can pick the WINNER a lot just like I DO.

Posted December 19, 2012 12:23 am 


It’s not all about Ariza, it’s all about Boxtradamus. If you don’t believe me ask him.

Posted December 18, 2012 11:55 pm 


CORRECTION….Roach opened his big fat mouth…

Posted December 18, 2012 11:54 pm 


Ariza thinks its all about him but its NOT. Pacquiao didn’t have a Strength or Conditioning issue. He had a Defensive SKILLS and a Boxing IQ/ Game planning issue. You do not throw multiple combinations and keep charging vs a level headed precision counter puncher. Especially when he has MUCH Power. ….I TOLD Freddie Roach that he was going to damn near get his guy KILLED. Don’t let 3 blind mices decisions on the scorecards make you forget that Marquez was landing the most effective shots right on the Button last Fight…..couldn’t you see that Marquez was adding Power and that was going to be a problem if you didn’t Fight more Defensively rather than Fighting more Offensively????? Well I DID. Thats why I took Marquez as soon as Discharge opened his fat mouth and gave away the Gameplan allowing one of the smartest Fighters in the game to prepare for what’s coming. That results in your Fighter getting knocked out. Ariza wants to make it about him but Roach is the problem not the Strength and Conditioning Program…..Ariza needs to learn more about Boxing.

Posted December 18, 2012 11:51 pm 


Increase the chemicals all you wan’t but it wont be the same any more. Not only that but the stomach ulcers and leg cramps will come back even worse. The body can only take so much.

Posted December 18, 2012 11:37 pm 


Now, now boys, let’s not be short sighted here. There’s serious money to be made. If Ariza and Heredia can combine forces, they can put out a best selling video… better yet, if they can figure out how to bottle their product, think of all the athletes that would be interested. Baseball players, Olympic runners, cyclists, football players, etc.

I’m sure given what these guys have done for these boxers, other sports are just breaking down their doors to have these guys train their athletes. These guys put Boxing in the cutting edge of performance optimization.

Posted December 18, 2012 11:35 pm 


WTF …..AGAIN ……………………….!

Posted December 18, 2012 11:34 pm 

Always Sunny

How exactly does strength training help you from getting a shovel smashed in your face? Just curious.

Posted December 18, 2012 10:15 pm 


this is an excuse for the lost/sounds like a bunch of kids with problems

Posted December 18, 2012 10:00 pm 


I wonder how similar is Ariza’s strength training program to the one used by Heredia on Marquez. I agree both were very effective for their respective fighters. It would be good to put this training in a “how to” video or bottle it up some way. These two guys are the best trainers in the world.

Posted December 18, 2012 9:17 pm 

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Ariza wants Pacquiao to adopt his old strength program before facing Marquez again

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