Thanks, Boxtra!! I appreciate your kind words!!Posted October 31, 2012 8:01 am
You’re a GOOD writer Herron. Keep it UP!Posted October 30, 2012 9:32 pm
Every aspect of boxing is psychological. Some guys learn from losses and become stronger, others lose confidence. Sometimes its just overall maturity thats lacking. It all comes down individual psychology and to become a champ uve gotta keep the confidence in the face of adversity. Also, sadly some guys who could be great fighters just cant perform well in the limelight.Posted October 30, 2012 6:50 pm
This is a story as old as the sport it’s self. It’s a time honored tradition to pad a young prospects record with soft wins, get him 20-0, and then angle for a title shot. This kid then gets demolished and rarely heard from again. Once in a blue moon, the prospect proves to be the real deal, and becomes a factor in the division. At 16 proffessional fights, I actually commend the fighter and his team for taking on some one solid. Hopefully the kid will learn from the experience and bounce back. 16-1 isn’t a death sentance. Hell, didn’t Bernard Hopkins lose his first fight really early in his career?Posted October 30, 2012 6:05 pm
yeah it might be tough for thomas to come back then del valle cause thomas got stop and del valle didn he lost by decsion del valle show a good chin to against vic thomas chin might be kinda suspect i think thomas is the more talented fighter tho we seePosted October 30, 2012 5:46 pm
You guys talk about ignorant matchmaking. I think it is matchmaking based on money. So, it is not ignorant at all. It is purposeful. The promoters want to make money. They are not going to wait forever to make money. They are moving up the timeframes to put these kids in with higher quality talent so they can either get the big dollar fights — or if the kid loses — they move on to the next kid. The problem is that boxing as sport is losing, has been losing, will continue to lose share to other sports. The economic model works for the big stars and big fights — but it doesn’t work for anybody else. There is no “minor leagues” of boxing so to speak. And the ability to fund young, up & coming fighters with a US based model seems challenging. I would suggest that there is no ignorance going on here — but greed. And I am not sure I blame the promoters. They are trying to make a buck. Going slow with a young talent — for example Canelo Alvarez — is very rare. The promoters cannot justify doing it very often. There are only two (2) solutions … (1) the fighters have to be smarter about what they can do and what they cannot do and the fighter himself has to walk from stupid fights and (2) find new markets where there is an economic model that would work. I don’t think the US market works for young fighters. Asia and Maccou with lots of casinos and lots of gamblers might work.Posted October 30, 2012 5:00 pm
this is a testPosted October 30, 2012 4:37 pm
One More Round
This is a tough one, we can look back now and say “Wow, that to much to quick for a young prospect” At some point a young prospect let alone a #1 Contender by the WBC, which is what Dulorme was has to step up and really see where he’s at in this sport. De Valle I’m sure thought he would of beat Darchiniyan, Escalante thought for sure I can handle Rocky Juarez. I agree about the networks putting to much into records thinking that’s whats going to get ratings. Andre ward vs Chad Dawson was two great record fighters but not a good match-up as far as entertainment. Yet two “B Level” fighters like Gatti vs Ward can sell out arena’s all over the world and have huge ratings. It’s all about the styles..! But I kind of love when the under dog or “Old Man” pulls off the upset, this is the only sport where you can go from the Dog House to the Penthouse with one punch.Posted October 30, 2012 4:28 pm
Dulorme has some of the same problems Amir Khan has…no defense, no infighting skills, and no clinching skills.. Virgil Hunter would do wonders for Dulorme in a few fights…or Joel Diaz.. It’s not so much the number of fights a fighter has but what he knows—and whether or not he has good all around skills. Some guys have 50 fights and very little skill. No trainer with in depth knowledge ever took an interest in them … There’re a lot of fighters out there who basically taught themselves how to fight—and I don’t think there’s another individual sport where some of the top athletes don’t know their game inside out.Posted October 30, 2012 4:28 pm
Guys act like Rigos age should dictate the pace at which opportunities are handed to him… Thats ridiculous and its not anyones problem but HIS… Martinez and Marquez both took time before they really got on the radar and these guys were slugging WELL beyond 11 contests….When Donaire crushed Darchinyan Vic was regarded as one of the toughest fighters in the sport, not some guy on Rico Ramos level….This continued harping on the amateur background is an excuse that does not fly, this guy has gotta earn his stripes a pro and 11 bouts is nothing.Posted October 30, 2012 3:32 pm
I hope so too, anonymous…that’s what bothered me about Dulorme’s performance though. Although Abregu is a very resilient fighter, he doesn’t have the best chin in the world and Dulorme couldn’t really put one on him.
I honestly think it’s going to be tougher for Dulorme to come back than Del Valle.Posted October 30, 2012 3:27 pm
and abregu only lost to bradley so abregu still had a good record but it not like thomas did bad in the fight he did well he landing a few punches it didn hurt abregu tho when thomas got knockdown that change the fight that gave abregu more confidence cause now he know he can hurt him i hope thomas comes back from thisPosted October 30, 2012 3:06 pm
i agree vic lost to good fighters plus how vic perform he didn perform well in those fights maybe that y they thought del valle had a chance he aint the old vic he gettting older so they thought why not put del valle in there with him on hbo but del valle was still kinda green you can tell but he showed heart tho his punches was sloppyPosted October 30, 2012 3:00 pm
Pitting Del Valle in with “The Raging Bull” was an ignorant evaluation by the matchmaker. How could make that assessment when Vic lost to Moreno and Yamanaka…two crafty world champions? Who had Del Valle beaten previously to make them think he was ready for a fighter as tough and as experienced as Darchinyan?
Silly…I think Del Valle will be back though. Even in loss I was impressed with Luis’ toughness.Posted October 30, 2012 2:50 pm
i meah he had a couple of lossesPosted October 30, 2012 2:42 pm
the reason they put del valle in there with vic was cause they thought vic was finish he a couple of losses plus del valle was suppose to be the bigger man so they thought they had a advantage there but it backfired on them tho del valle had a problem with vic arkward style just like thomas did with abreguPosted October 30, 2012 2:41 pm
You’re right, Tark…Rigo doesn’t have time on his side. I don’t think many fans understand the wear and tear a fighter takes every time he trains, spars, drains himself to make weight, and battles on fight night.
Think about that every time you see Rigo’s amateur record.
Top Rank knows this and they plan to make the fight as soon as Rigo is featured on HBO one or two more times.
Also, I really feel for Dulorme and De Valle for being thrown in the ring against tough, gritty, veterans who can really punch way too soon. Hopefully they have the fortitude to come back wiser.Posted October 30, 2012 2:28 pm
@ Jerome…. Rigondeux had over 400 amateur fights and hasn’t lost in over 200 amateur and professional fights.. So YES, matching him with Donaire wouldn’t be the same as tossing Marvis Frazier in with Larry Holmes… Not that Rigondeux can’t learn the pro game a little better — but he should get a move on because he doesn’t have time on his side.Posted October 30, 2012 2:22 pm
Thanks you, Kid Blast…you’re the best. I love your writing and I’m a big fan of your work. You’re always so insightful and I visit your site quite often. I wish we had the chance to work together…maybe someday!!Posted October 30, 2012 2:20 pm
Yes , Joseph does a good job herePosted October 30, 2012 2:01 pm
Guys, if you look at the way Don Chargin has maneuvered Canelo’s career, he’s received a lot of criticism. But, you can’t argue with his results. Trust me, Canelo would be receiving a lot more negative scrutiny right now if he had gotten knocked by someone like James Kirkland or Alfredo Angulo by jumpring in the ring with them too soon.
Guys like Don, Bruce Trampler, and Russell Peltz know what they’re doing and also realize that you’re always going to have critics in boxing. The most important factor is achieving your goals and bringing up talent the right way…a fighter can live with anything else.Posted October 30, 2012 1:53 pm
Thank you, Brazilian! I really appreciate the kind words and I’ll try to continue at a respectable level.
If you have any thoughts or any subjects that you would like me to investigate or write about, please feel free to drop me a line at email@example.com.
Thanks again, brother!!Posted October 30, 2012 1:48 pm
Brazilian Boxing Fan. To Mr. Joseph Herron
I love your articles! This was your best yet, Mr. Herron! Thank you :)Posted October 30, 2012 1:38 pm
some fighters be ready for the big stage some dont then u got fans saying fighters need to step up and fight sombody good when they do it and lose then they a bum or got exposed thomas step up he did well he just got caught i knew abregu would be tough but i did thought thomas would win tho i was wrongPosted October 30, 2012 1:38 pm
Yes. Promoters and managers are moving fighters up too soon. Boxing is under pressure. Boxing fans are getting older. MMA has emerged. The networks want compelling fights with action. So, many young and up and coming fighters get put into situations that are way above their capabilities. Matchmaking has been bad and stupid. Recent examples include Victor Ortiz vs. Floyd Mayweather. Josesito Lopez vs. Canelo Alvarez. These are two great examples of just stupid matchmaking. Mentally, Victor Ortiz was 5 years away from being ready for Floyd Mayweather. Physically, Josesito Lopez was 5 years away from being ready for Canelo Alvarez. These were just horrible decisions made by management. Ortiz career as a fighter may be over at this stage. Lopez career emerged by beating Ortiz — and then he threw it al away for stupid choice and fighting Alvarez. Delorme looked like he had really great power. But his hands seemed low. His reaction time too slow. He has just not had enough competition at the higher levels to be prepared for Agrebu — who probably is a championship level fighter. I think the problem for the sport is that holding a young talented fighter costs money. It requires patience and investment. The sport is a business and waiting is money-losing proposition. The only solution I could suggest is to take these young fighters to casinos in Asia where gamblers there can support their fees and development. The US market does not have enough fan interest and venues for the young fighters.Posted October 30, 2012 1:27 pm
So it’s okay to put Rigondeux against Donaire but it’s not okay to put Frazier against Holmes? It’s the same thing.Posted October 30, 2012 1:21 pm
Are mangers moving too soon??? Not in a general sense—but for Dulorme it was way too early.. Dulorme lacks basic skills—but it wasn’t a bad as Marvis Frazier (10-0) being matched with Larry Holmes (44-0) one of the most premature matchups in Boxing History. Writers scratched their heads, “WHY is Joe Frazier doing this?” …But often a kid is ready when pundits insist he needs more “seasoning.” Nonito Donaire was 17-1 when he dispatched Vic Darchinyan. Tim Bradley and Devon Alexander had 20 and 18 wins respectively when they won world titles vs Junior Witter. True enough, 3 or 4 fights can make a massive difference in a young boxer’s development—so pushing is not ideal … On the other hand you don’t want to get chicken fat on your fighter—re: Deontay Wilder, Alex Povetkin, Denis Boystsov, Malik Scott, and David Rodriguez.Posted October 30, 2012 1:10 pm
Thank you, WOATB!! Your kind words humble me.
Don is one of America’s treasures and a true architect of the fight game. he just entered his sixth decade in boxing last year and is still putting on great shows throughout America.
Younger promoters and matchmakers would be wise to learn from the greats while they’re still involved in the sport, like Don, Bruce Trampler, and the great Russell Peltz of Philly.
It’s the only way we can secure the integrity of this truly great sport!!Posted October 30, 2012 12:33 pm
Great article. Joseph I’m quickly becoming a fan. You are bringing the content quality back up on ESB. I would imagine matchmaking is probably the second most difficult role a person can have in the sport of boxing. Don Chargin’s insight was fascinating.Posted October 30, 2012 12:25 pm
My sincere thanks to the great Don Chargin for taking time out of his perpetually busy schedule and sharing his insight with the ESB readers.
I don’t understand why these networks don’t hire a true master like Don and continuously hire these attorneys who don’t know much about matchmaking to be in charge of sports programming?Posted October 30, 2012 12:25 pm