Adrian says: The HW division is a Super HW division, as there is no limit! It has been long time that have heard such non-sense.
Posted December 30, 2013 11:28 am
Of course it is , lol tell me one thing , why was jack Johnson “allowed” to fight much smaller guys then him?? Lol because in hw devision as a pro you can come as big as you want because there are no limits !!!!!
You can call klitchkos robotic all you want but you can’t deny their accomplishment and change the ” devision” just because they are too big!!! Tayson once said ” when you fight in the streets no one ask how much you weight “Posted December 31, 2013 1:24 am
its a hw freak show today period.Posted December 30, 2013 5:10 pm
You would be a heavyweight if you were 7’4″ and weighed 400 pounds… You would most likely not do well because you’d be ponderously huge and easy to hit. They’re not going to make divisions for 300 or 400 pounders because they’re not needed. Prince is calling the Klitschkos stiff robots and they’re actually very athletic, skillful, and fast.
It’s the difference between Michael Grant who is even bigger than Vitali, and younger … but is super slow and not very skilled. That’s why 216 pound Tomasz Adamek was able to outbox Grant, but couldn’t win a single minute of any round versus a 40-year-old Vitali before getting stopped.Posted December 30, 2013 4:55 pm
Adrian says: The HW division is a Super HW division, as there is no limit! It has been long time that have heard such non-sense.
Adrian and Tark, no point discussing that further with you. You guys dont want to see it. But fine, keep following your stiff, boring robots and be happy. If you dont see that most heavies of today are naturally bigger than the ones of past decades you must be blind, also if you think the Klitschkos are skilled and exciting boxers. Good luck!Posted December 30, 2013 6:06 am
Prince — hahAhahahahaha uuuuuhhhuuuuuuhhuu they killed the division and you don’t rate them high ???? Hahahahahaha what else you want them to do , fight with two boxers at the same night to be ” fair” ???? Hahahahshaha ….
If Ali Paterson and and all those you stated were “cruiserweight” the they don’t deserve to be called they hw champions of the world …..
For your info the hw IS a super hw devision because it is an unlimited weight devision so if boxers think are smal for hw they should gtfo of there and to down in weight!!!!!Posted December 30, 2013 1:34 am
Kill the division????
Pulev… Fury… Perez… Chisora… Helenius… Price… Thompson… Arreola… Mitchell… and a dozen other heavyweights are as heavy or heavier than the K Bros…
The cruiserweight division was put into place 20 years ago to get another division into place for 200-pounders…so they wouldn’t be forced to compete with the bigger sized modern athletes.Posted December 29, 2013 7:36 pm
bang on the money prince.Posted December 29, 2013 7:50 am
I am amazed, that people rate Klitschko so high. But someone who says Klitschko is more skilled than Ali simply has no clue and understanding of boxing.
For the first time since modern boxing started klitchko haters started calling for a new “super hw” to add because those brothers are just too big lmao!!!!!Posted December 29, 2013 1:24 am
Damn “weak hw ” decade lmao!!!Posted December 29, 2013 1:22 am
Klitchkos are the best and they very “boring” for their haters because they didn’t lose for more then a decade … HahahahahahaPosted December 29, 2013 1:21 am
herman and his brother, top 30 at best.Posted December 28, 2013 7:06 pm
Prince.., “Ali was one of the most skilled heavyweights ever! He played with Liston” … LMFAO!!!!
NO he didn’t… Their 1st fight was EVEN on the scorecards when the fight was called due to a severely torn left biceps suffered by Liston… If Sonny hadn’t suffered the injury presumably he would have done better. Ali couldn’t create any separation even with his opponent injured. It was a legitimate win due to injury, but not dominant.
In the rematch with Liston Ali should have been disqualified…
Ali refused the referee’s repeated orders to go to a neutral corner… Liston got up without a count and Ali missed every follow up punch — proving he wasn’t hurt… At the very least, the count should have been suspended until Ali went to a neutral corner — Liston was on his feet as soon as Ali was pushed to a neutral corner by the referee. Liston did nothing wrong — but had his license revoked for years for “faking” the knockdown. There is no rule against going down when punched, but there is for disobeying a referee’s order to go to a neutral corner.
Ali wasn’t “playing” with Liston … I call that flagrantly violating the rules.Posted December 28, 2013 4:23 pm
Adrien, maybe you should come back to reality. Both brothers have bored us to death for the most part with two or three excemptions. Hardly a call for “all time best”, rather all time most boring!Posted December 28, 2013 3:48 pm
Klitchko is the all time best , sorry deal with it. !Posted December 28, 2013 3:20 pm
@bob, that is right!Posted December 28, 2013 11:38 am
bobb bob bob
not even in the top 10, put on 15 top heavyweight fights on the same night, Tyson, ali, foreman, frazier, lewis, Morrison etc………… and count the audience in each fight, I bet klitschkos fight will be the most empty,Posted December 28, 2013 9:09 am
tark, moving, slipping and avoiding punches while scoring yourself is boxing…Posted December 28, 2013 7:17 am
Guys, Klitschko is an arm puncher, has no footwork and mainly wins due to his size! Then he fights Lewis who is almost even in size and he gets hit like crazy. Of course you cant blame Klitschko for being in a weak era, but that still doesnt make him great. I also think that Marciano is overrated in that respect, as he fought in a weak era.
And it is crystal clear that Ali was shot after the 3rd Frazier fight. Now when he fought Frazier the first time and Norton, he wasnt shot, but still lost some speed. The difference is, that Ali was forced to layoff when at his peak, and Kiitschko needed to retire due to injury and give his body time to heal.Posted December 28, 2013 5:12 am
Even though he was younger then him ( vitaly) *Posted December 28, 2013 1:09 am
Yo Adrian, what is your point? Ali was shot by the time he lost to Spinks! Do you think the Ali of 1966 would have lost to Spinks or even Frazier for that matter? No, he was too skilled. And do you think Klitschko would have survived had he been fighting in the era of Tyson, Lewis, Holy and Bowe? No
Posted December 27, 2013 5:04 am
What’s my point ???? Really ?? You mock vitaly for not stoping chisora as a 41 year old but you call Ali ” shot” for losing from a cruiser spinks at a younger age then klitchko ….
So everyone is “shot”for you when it suites your argument t but klitchko as a 42 year old has to ko everyone and still not give him credit??
Example , was brigs “shot” for you when he fought vitaly ? Even though he is you he then him…Posted December 28, 2013 1:07 am
And Vitali was viciously fouled by Lewis in the the 3rd round as he held and hit him… You’re blind if you can’t see it… The first nick was caused by a thumb strike and shortly there after a the massive slashes were inflicted with the palm of Lewis’s right glove.Posted December 27, 2013 5:04 pm
Prince… Dancing is not boxing… Ali wasn’t old when he faced Frazier and Norton… They just knew how to cut the ring off on him, and those little, slow, or old guys he fought in the 60’s didn’t know how to.Posted December 27, 2013 5:01 pm
the hw circus will be back next year.Posted December 27, 2013 3:56 pm
and as for Vitali, Lewis was hitting him more often than ever before or thereafter and it was not just that one big cut, but several others that were caused by his punches. There was no foulplay involved, thats just people trying to defend Vitali.Posted December 27, 2013 2:47 pm
Tark, I know boxing more than you think! Alis was one of the most skilled heavyweights ever! He played with Liston who was the most feared man on the planet just like Tyson was later. You tell me he could not defend, watch his fights against Wiilliams, Terrell, Patterson etc, he was slipping and dodging punches hardly getting hit and moving beautifully like no other heavyweight. He lost his legs after his forced 3 year break and hence was hit more often. He would have beaten Frazier, Norton etc with ease if it wasnt for the break.Posted December 27, 2013 2:40 pm
Prince, you just don’t know Boxing…
Ali couldn’t defend… Even 185-pound Cooper decked Ali in the 1960’s… There was NOBODY for him to fight in the 1960’s… No Larry Holmeses… No Ken Nortons… Not even a Jimmy Young… The division was WEAK WEAK WEAK … He was 29 when Frazier kicked his ass… 31 when Norton kicked his ass… 36 when little neophyte Leon kicked his ass…
Wladimir will be 38 in his next fight… If he gets beaten nobody will give him a pass due to his age.. Vitali is 42.. If he fights again and loses nobody is going to say… “Hey! he took 4 years off when he was 33.”
Lewis did not “beat Vitali up” he was losing on ALL SCORECARDS and he fouled Vitali with vicious slashing palm strikes while he was holding and hitting… to open up the thumb strike nick that caused the first strike… Watch the beginning of the 3rd round in slo-mo if you don’t believe me… Before he had blood running into his left eye Vitali was beating the crap out of Lewis and nearly knocking him out in the 1st two rounds.Posted December 27, 2013 2:27 pm
there not heavyweights today there bodybuilders.Posted December 27, 2013 8:47 am
Yo Adrian, what is your point? Ali was shot by the time he lost to Spinks! Do you think the Ali of 1966 would have lost to Spinks or even Frazier for that matter? No, he was too skilled. And do you think Klitschko would have survived had he been fighting in the era of Tyson, Lewis, Holy and Bowe? NoPosted December 27, 2013 5:04 am
Tark, if you cant see that Ali was skilled, (especially in the 60s) then I cant help you. Klitschko is fairly stiff and robotic and wins his fights mainly due to his size not his skill. And when he finally met someone almost his size and longer reach and skill (Lewis) he was hit and beaten up .Posted December 27, 2013 5:01 am
Vitili hmmmmm? Vitili dominated a lot of really good fighters easy.
Came back after a near 4 year lay off to take the tittle from peter in extream fashion, peter was clumsy in my opinion thou.
Vitili gave Lennox Lewis is hardest fight and was winning on the cards.
Lewis beat holyfield and mike tyson so vitili looked great even in loseing to lewis.
One thing I know vitili would have givin any fighter from the past trouble if not win.
I think he s pretty great but we got to imagine him not retiring 4 years and getting a lewis rematch.
Jurys still out, vitili needs some time to marinate in boxing history a bit.Posted December 26, 2013 6:20 pm
anonymous, i would love to know the 29 heavyweights before vitali. would you please name them. no because to can’t. you would look like a fool with your list.Posted December 26, 2013 5:37 pm
He ranks in the “Everybody is tired of watching him”. rank.Posted December 26, 2013 5:11 pm
both clenchko bros top thirty at best.Posted December 26, 2013 4:36 pm
Pince…, NO, I do not see what you mean.. Ali was not very skillful.. He lacked a body attack and a strong defense.. Ali didn’t duck, slip, or roll under punches well.. Frazier, Norton, Spinks, and Holmes in particular took advantage of that fact.
Vitali was the greatest defender ever to win the Heavyweight Championship… He’s never been knocked down and was always ahead on points in every fight he ever fought.
In regards to the ratio of punches he threw and landed versuse the ratio of punches thrown at him that landed Vitali is tops.Posted December 26, 2013 4:31 pm
Tark, looks like you hate Ali and think Klitschko is better! Well, he is not better, just bigger and taller. To counter your argument that Ali couild not knock out Spinks. The great Vitali could not knock out Chisora who was blown out by Haye in 5!
Posted December 25, 2013 2:14 pm
Lol really ?? Vitally beat chisora at 41 years of age , hike Ali lost to spinks at the end of his carriere …hahAhahahahahaPosted December 26, 2013 3:59 pm
prince is tark you”re sister.Posted December 26, 2013 3:51 pm
@the poster below, clearly, your English is far from best!Posted December 26, 2013 3:35 pm
Klitschko is best
Klitschko is probably best ever heavyweight. He punch so hard and no punch ever can hurt him. Some fight he has he never even get punched and Ali I saw get punched lots of times. I watch Ali Vs Fraizer and if Ali is best ever then Vitali is better than Ali. He is too big and strong for everyone so no one ever beat him. Klitschko brothers are first proper world heavyweight champions for the whole world not just America. They have so much money in so many banks because they are so smart and can punch so hard. American heavyweight always lose money and not allowed to be in many banks because they are sometimes criminal and banks not like the criminal. Klitschko can punch many times very hard and very fast and after the fight he say many good things for world and put his money into many banks. I not bias because I see some good other heavyweights aswell. Lewis was good to fight Vitali and I see sometimes Tyson was punching very hard. But they not the best for long time and they not have lots of money in lots of banks. So now Klitschko laught because he goes to the bank to get his money and he can punch someone if they try to say he is not the best. After some time in histroy people will realise that Klitschkos are easily the best ever. You can see many things now to prove this. Happy retirement and keep saving your money in the banks and keep fighting for Europeans and for Ukraine because many people in Ukraine dont have any money in the banks so Klitschko can help them I thinkPosted December 26, 2013 2:53 pm
and that cannot be disputed!
WBC HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD
in the books for freaking ever.
Haters cannot dispute that.Posted December 26, 2013 1:09 pm
Lewis fight is History…..
anonymous, looks like you dont have a clue. Haye is a very skilled boxer, maybe not quite as skilled and graceful as Ali was, but still very good. If you dont see, you cant be helped.Posted December 26, 2013 12:06 pm
@K2 Fanboy, a very good joke, a prime Tyson beats both Klitschkos and Lewis gave your hero the beating of his life, what do you think he would have done with Wlad who is nowhere near as tough as Vitali?Posted December 26, 2013 12:02 pm
Klitchkos ARE the best , and Vitaly the GREATEST ever !Posted December 26, 2013 11:05 am
when people compare that pri#k haye with ali,you know this site has become a comedy forum.Posted December 26, 2013 8:42 am
Cuts caused by punches. Deal with it. Tko6Posted December 26, 2013 5:33 am
Tark, but you have to admit that Ali was way better than Klitschko in terms of skill, by that I mean movement, ring IQ etc. Even Haye is better than Klitschko in that respect, The problem with both Haye and Ali, facing Klitschko is they are too small, ie. Cruiserweights in today´s era.
Puncher007…, When somebody is ahead on all cards but the fight is stopped by cuts caused by illegal contact—accidental or deliberate—the fight goes to the scorecards.
Vitali—ahead on all scorecards—wins a technical unanimous decision.
Ward-Kessler went to the scorecards — so does Lewis-Klitschko with any other referee but Lou Moret.Posted December 25, 2013 11:18 pm
Goose get on check hook boxing ;-)Posted December 25, 2013 9:31 pm
Hard to say with Vitali, the manner of the Byrd loss was damaging to his reputation and the Lewis loss showed his top level.
Puncher007..”He even admitted in an interview in the UK he was afraid to fight him again!” Got a link?Posted December 25, 2013 6:23 pm
The facts are Vitali officially retired Lewis, and everyone with a half of a brain knows this! He even admitted in an interview in the UK he was afraid to fight him again! (He knew he got lucky!) A cut is not a win! When someone is way ahead on the scorecards and suffers a cut and a crooked doctor stops the fight, it should be a no contest! Mandatory rematch! Just like the WBC ordered when the chicken decided to run!Posted December 25, 2013 6:16 pm
Too early to tell… He’s unbeaten, so he has a shot in Hell.Posted December 25, 2013 5:35 pm
will tyson fury be an atg.Posted December 25, 2013 5:30 pm
keep the hw circus rolling.Posted December 25, 2013 5:04 pm
Sorry. I meant Z-Posted December 25, 2013 4:58 pm
Well you’re a Z level analyst. How’s that?Posted December 25, 2013 4:57 pm
sorry i meant david toe haye D LEVEL at best.Posted December 25, 2013 4:36 pm
Prince.., I do not hate Ali… That’s the goofiest idea I ever heard.
Ali was my hero as a young marine faced with Viet Nam. I took his lead and became a conscientious objector—because I knew the war was not only wrong, but unbelievably stupid for us to fight… Ali was a wise man.
Vitali, as a 41-year-old boxer, did not KO Chisora, but he out-boxed him and beat him easily with one good arm.
Haye fought a magnificent fight and is the only man to KO Chisora. Haye is a great fighter at his best. He has just had a lot of injury problems.
Vitali has an 87% KO ratio which is 2nd among all Heavyweight Champions—but 1st among all Heavyweight Champions with 10 or more title fights.
Ali has a 60% KO ratio… But he failed to KO any of his last 7 opponents. Before that Ali had a 68% KO ratio. He was still not the puncher or defender Vitali is and certainly not as good as Haye, who’s more his size.
When it comes to KO power, body punching, defense, and conditioning. Haye is better than Ali ever was. Haye has just been unlucky and injured a lot—just like Vitali was before he took 4 years off to rehab his legs.Posted December 25, 2013 4:29 pm
david toe haye. C LEVEL at best.Posted December 25, 2013 4:25 pm
Tark, looks like you hate Ali and think Klitschko is better! Well, he is not better, just bigger and taller. To counter your argument that Ali couild not knock out Spinks. The great Vitali could not knock out Chisora who was blown out by Haye in 5!Posted December 25, 2013 2:14 pm
Al Bundy says.., “Ali could be David Haye of today’s day due to his height and weight and other abilities…”
Ali couldn’t stop Alfredo Evangelista, Ruddi Lubbers, Mac Foster, Buster Mathis, or even Leon Stinks — who everyone else knocked out. Ali would need a massive boost in firepower, defensive skills, and a brutal body attack to to emulate David Haye. Ali had none of that.
Frazier found a home for his left hook on Ali’s jaw… Good thing Joe was 5’11” X 205, wide open … with no other real weapons in his arsenal.Posted December 25, 2013 12:59 pm
This is the biggest sh.t list i have seen in a long time. Ali on 1? Hahahaha. This list must have been pulled up by a yank. And he did not even mention Tyson in the top 10?! Unbelievable that these people even get air time on this page…..Posted December 25, 2013 12:42 pm
Jack Johnson doesn’t belong in the top 10 let alone top 5.Posted December 25, 2013 11:34 am
puncher007, I think you are the idiot! Put the Klischkos in with the era of the 90´s and they wouldnt not have been dominant at all! Get a clue!Posted December 25, 2013 9:02 am
david toe man haye is the biggest joke in hw history.Posted December 25, 2013 8:30 am
puncher007, if you just omit “all stupid” and “all idiots”, I can agree with the general idea. Klichko oldest has been too advanced for his peers and it felt like he did not face anyone serious comptition. Tyson would be frustrated if he had fight Vitaliy, he would know how to get to him. Tyson would need two-three steps to reach Vitaliy, would move his body away and swing his left re-directing running up Tyson. Ali used counterattacks and moves and getting opponents out of balance. It would not work with Klichko, who does not reach by shifting his balance…. It is hard to compare… But athletes are becoming stronger, faster and so forth… Ali could be David Haye of today’s day due to his height and weight and other abilities…Posted December 25, 2013 7:39 am
That doesnt even make sensePosted December 25, 2013 7:19 am
Nameless your points are worth just as your name ….Posted December 25, 2013 6:46 am
Pele reid ko2Posted December 25, 2013 2:24 am
Lewis was knocked out twice from one shot. Vitali was never knocked down ever and was winning on all cards when their fight was stopped.Posted December 25, 2013 1:55 am
That’s “You’re a fool” B Red. Learn English you moron.Posted December 25, 2013 1:48 am
Lewis at his worst smashed vitalis face in . Deal with itPosted December 25, 2013 1:26 am
If vitally had never fought Lewis sredmond Alike would probably have said that klitchkos wouldn’t have last a round with Lewis …lol and now they have Lewis ” win” in paper based on a stoppage by a doctor due to injury to brag about lol and they hate mantioning the scorecards lol …. Sredmond says vitaly can’t be considered being a top 10 but he puts Lewis at nr.1 spot who lost the scorecards to vitally ..hahahahahahahahahahahahAhahahshshaPosted December 25, 2013 12:56 am
Nobody = 1 kilts = 2
Glad i can helpPosted December 25, 2013 12:47 am
Damn y’all are stupid!! Nobody in history has been as dominant as the Klitchkos! That’s a fact ding doings! Has anyone ever thought maybe the so called golden era of heavyweights was because they were all about the same! None of them were head and shoulders above the rest! Think about that you idiots!Posted December 25, 2013 12:17 am
The only American Heavyweight Champion of that era who would fight the Klitschkos was Ray Mercer. Mercer was only able to land 5 power punches on Wladimir after landing 100s on Lennix Lewis in a close fight.
Another guy who beat Holyfield was John Rui. Ruiz was badly beaten and stopped by a Heavyweight Champion from Europe, David Haye.Posted December 24, 2013 10:52 pm
Shows how weak the era was. A cruiser doing all that to the big boys. A cruiser who got pounded out by a middleweight.Posted December 24, 2013 9:45 pm
Really Tark? you mean a super OLD Holy getting stopped by Toney??? desperate bro, Holyfield is the ONLY former Cruiserweight to come and really be a FORCE at HW… 4x HW Champion, wins over Tyson, Moorer, Mercer, Foreman, Ruiz man was Undisputed as a SMALL HW… Trying to undersell Evander for a QUITTER like Vitali is blasphemy, Holy did 24 rounds with Lewis meanwhile Vitali could only do 6 and was leaking after 3…HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!Posted December 24, 2013 9:28 pm
Da UnKnown Comic
#1. Too big for guys like Ali. He’s #1 all time.Posted December 24, 2013 8:55 pm
#1 but if Wlad will continue his world domination for some more years, Wlad will be #1Posted December 24, 2013 8:43 pm
How tough was Holyfield you idiot??? He was KO’d by a middleweightPosted December 24, 2013 8:33 pm
Michael Grant? thats an OLD Lennox Lewis vic that was blown out in 2 rounds… Adamek beating him on points is nothing thats gonna get him the cache you need for Vitali to move out into the upper tier of the HW division historically… No one is fooledPosted December 24, 2013 7:21 pm
HaHaHa Tark, Adamek was a 2 weight Champ and those 2 weights were 175 and Cruiser… He was facing a HUGE SHW and Tomas had NO shot physically, he did NOT even have Hayes speed or power nor Holyfields incredible toughness… I know you will try and sell Holy and Adamek as equals at HW but that will just cause me spasms of laughter!! One man is a 4time HW Champ, who was Undisputed the other was Adamek a guy who beat Arreola on points and basically could not blossom at HW…Posted December 24, 2013 7:20 pm
Nameless/ Clueless /Brainless ; You just called me a dirty word !Posted December 24, 2013 7:14 pm
Im am a euro and you are a russian! Deal with itPosted December 24, 2013 7:00 pm
Nameless/ Clueless/Brianless ; are you back again ? I would think that with you getting reamed by everybody so badly , your butthole was so sore , you
for over eighty years we have had real hw greats,today we have hw freak shows.Posted December 24, 2013 6:29 pm
Im a euro and vitali was awful. Corrie decked him and he didnt even train! Lewis smashed his face in and he didnt train either and votali shamelessly ducked hayePosted December 24, 2013 6:10 pm
Glad vitali is gone. Hopefully we get some good fights for the wbc strapPosted December 24, 2013 6:09 pm
It doesn’t matter what you think Sredmond… A lot of European fans believe Vitali is the best ever…and many thinking American fans think he is as well… Just about everyone knows Lewis ducked a rematch with Vitali, and every time Lewis wants more ink he’s says he’s coming back to fight Vitali … It’s BS and everyone knows it.
It’s not that Adamek was 44-1 and a 2-Division World Champion… It’s the manner in which a 40-year-old Vitali beat him… He beat him every minute of every round and stopped him. Grant was only 38 when he fought Adamek and has had good wins past that age.
Michael Grant was still scoring big victories after he lost to Adamek… So did Chris Arreola when he took out ranked Seth Mitchell in one… You have to give Adamek credit for beating heavyweight contenders, having a 44-1 record, and never being KO’d before or since.Posted December 24, 2013 6:01 pm
Vitali retired me. Fact.Posted December 24, 2013 5:50 pm
vitali never hit the canvas, even in his 40′s.Posted December 24, 2013 5:50 pm
Anybody who says that the heavyweight fighters of today who are bigger, come from many more countries, and use modern training methods are magically weaker because they fight in the Klitschko era is a racist pure and simple. There is no other explanation for the magical thinking. No facts will persuade them otherwise because of their racist feelings.Posted December 24, 2013 5:49 pm
Sredmond you’re an idiot…Posted December 24, 2013 5:47 pm
Ignore, last post. Meant for another thread.Posted December 24, 2013 5:45 pm
Tszyu’s team turned down a fight with Mayweather when he was pursuing it. There’s videos online that prove this. Just like all the times Mosley and De La Hoya turned him down at first. But of course, Pactards like to rewrite history.Posted December 24, 2013 5:42 pm
Tark, AGAIN we do not take Affidavits from boxers brothers as proof that they are “All That” its sad that Vitali has ONLY left you nonsense like that to try and pass him off as the BEST HW of this ERA… We have ratings agencies, belts, defenses and tenure to debunk your desperate play to get Vitali to the top 10… Its impossible when Sam Peter is his best night, with ONE belt, a QUIT job, and nightmares about Lennox Lewis going “Wolverine” on his face with those right hands… This is my Xmas Gift to you!!Posted December 24, 2013 5:34 pm
Adamek beat an OLD Grant on points and basically Tomas was NEVER a force at HW… Bowe was getting nailed by Golota near the end of his relevance that said Big Daddy defeated a PEAK Holyfield 2x and was the first guy to legitimately stop Evander… He got smashed in the cajones by Golota like it was nobodys biz, not a Vitali scenario where he gets punched in the eye and calls that an injury… Golota was fouling like that was the intended target and he was rightfully DQedPosted December 24, 2013 5:31 pm
Vitali beating Donald is hardly a bellwether moment when trying to sell him as a Top 10 ATG…. Bowe beat him first, and Donald was not a prime time fighter.. Donald beat an OLD 41 year old Holyfield, good on him but Evander was a SPENT force…Posted December 24, 2013 5:29 pm
The Klitscko’s were NOT marginalized when Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe were fighting… They were making very good money and trying to get fights with Bowe, Holyfield, and Tyson who consistently ducked them
Danny Williams couldn’t even compete with Vitali before being dispatched early but he knocked Tyson out.
Vitali Klitschko easily beat up and KO’d Larry Donald. Vitali was the ONLY fighter who ever scored a stoppage over Donald, but Donald boxed the pee out of Holyfield
The inept Golota beat up Bowe. Bowe refused to fight the K Bros.
Bowe got beaten up twice by the inept Andrew Golota—while Bowe was still in his 20’s. The super slow and awkward Michael Grant was able to beat up and stop Golota. Tomasz Adamek out boxed the ponderous Grant—but was beaten every minute of every round by 40-year-old Vitali K—who was the only fighter to ever stop him.Posted December 24, 2013 5:02 pm
Sredmond you’re an idiot…, Waldimir said he would lose if he and Vitali fought… Vitali only said, “I would never sacrifice my brother for glory.” … They both know who the better fighter is, and it’s easy to see when you look at how they fared with common opponents.Posted December 24, 2013 4:49 pm
Tark wants us to overrate Vitali because “Wlad Said” what a ridiculous rationale that only a CLOWN would try and propose…Posted December 24, 2013 4:39 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Look below I disucssed how FOOLS like Tark will try to sell the testimonial of a little Brother as proof of Vitalis quality absent accomplishment… Yes Wlad is the top HW of this era and anyone arguing that is a pure azzhole NO punches pulled.. He is Ring Champ, defended against the better names of this weak era, Chagaev, Peter, Brock, Haye, Ibragimov and Thompson first go round… Vitali does not even intelligently compare and that the MAIN reason that no one REALLY cares that Vitali is retiring because the only thing in play is the WBC belt he has not defended in over a year and last bout was against a SCRUB Charr…. Tark cannot even be accurate as to who the Top HW fighter of this era is, he has NO chance of knowing how to accurately place the elder Klit…Posted December 24, 2013 4:37 pm
Wladimir was not the top fighter of his era… Only the accident of being Vitali’s brother kept him from what he calls defeat by Vitali — who Wladimir has always said was bigger, tougher, and a “natural fighter. Vitali is a natural. It was very tough for me to learn how to box. Vitali was a natural boxer.”
The fact that Wladimir was knocked down 8 times buy Ross Puritty, Corrie Sanders, and Sam Perter — and Vitali beat them all up badly and knocked them out, shows his superiority.
Of course Chris Byrd was a piece of cake for Wladimir and beat Vitali… Vitali suffered a shoulder injury early, built a huge lead, but couldn’t finish. He was afraid he might permanently damage the shoulder, and he sacrificed one fight for the good of his career.Posted December 24, 2013 4:22 pm
Sir Henry Cooper kncked Ali on his ass with a beautiful left hook. Ali was out, and out on his stool, good ole Angie saved him. Otherwise but for Angelo, Cooper KTFO of Ali.Posted December 24, 2013 1:28 pm
I agree with SRedmon about Corrie Sanders. He was above a journeyman, crushing Wlad and maybe the only guy who hurt Vitali. Also, had a bunch of early-round KOs, though not against top guys except Wlad.
Would have been interesting if he had been more dedicated, had a top trainer…Very said how he died.Posted December 24, 2013 1:11 pm
I think Frazier is too high. Lennox, Tyson, and the K brothers would have pummeled him.Posted December 24, 2013 1:08 pm
Snorrrrreeee the reality is that the fighters of todays era are NOT earning credentials nor compiling their records against their peers…We have seen guys try to oversell the Price’s and Heleniuses as GREAT foes only to see them either get toppled or lose to underdogs… Weak ERA’s happen in boxing the Klits are NOT the pioneers of this they just happen to preside over one of them that is unusually dull…. It hurts their case that during the 90’s they were unable to make headway and only inherited but did NOT takeover the division… While Lewis, Holy, Bowe and Tyson were operating the Klits were marginalized, Vitali was quitting and facing sub Top 15 comp, Wlad was still getting TKOed up until what 2004? Again these fighters are certainly Hall Worthy boxers that said they did not have the type of matchups and achievements to put them above reproach… Vitalis case for being in the Top 10 is Non Existent AGAIN he was NEVER “The Man” notice “Man” is the singular of the word “MEN”….. He was a BACKGROUND singer not a lead dog, had he beat Lewis and become Undisputed while continually defending the convo would be different but that did NOT happen instead his BEST evening is recorded as Samuel Peter…Posted December 24, 2013 1:07 pm
Vitali Klitschko had 16 title fights. Ring magazine champion
Liston fought almost entirely cruiserweights and he had, at a mere 6′ 215 lbs, a size advantage over nearly everybody he fought. His record is hyped because he is part of the Muhamad Ali hype story. He wasn’t the dominant heavyweight of his era.
Joe Frazier also fought mostly cruiserweights. He wasn’t the dominant champion of his era. His legend is part of the Ali hype machine. He wouldn’t even fight at heavyweight today. At 212 lbs he looked more flabby than Chisora at 252 lbs.
George Foreman was never the dominant champion of either era in which he fought. Again his legend is part of the Ali hype machine. At 6’3″ 220 lbs in his prime he would be a small heavyweight today. His 245 lbs version had the size, movement, and boxing ability of Chris Arreola today. He wasn’t dominant then and he wouldn’t be dominant today.
Lennox Lewis was a dominant champion and his number of fights, record, and total title fights is very similar to Vitali Klitschko.
Mike Tyson was a dominant champion in his era and with 16 total title fights he has exactly the same number as Vitali Klitschko. The guys he fought were not weaker than previous eras just because he was able to dominate them nor did the fighters of Vitali Klitschko’s era become magically weaker because he dominated them.
Anybody who says that the heavyweight fighters of today who are bigger, come from many more countries, and use modern training methods are magically weaker because they fight in the Klitschko era is a racist pure and simple. There is no other explanation for the magical thinking. No facts will persuade them otherwise because of their racist feelings.Posted December 24, 2013 12:45 pm
vitali & wladimir will be remenbered as the most boring fighters of all time , the heavyweights match ups died down since the two brothers took overPosted December 24, 2013 11:39 am
vitali never hit the canvas, even in his 40’s.Posted December 24, 2013 11:24 am
great hw of the last eighty years have beat great hw. these two robots have beat bums end of.Posted December 24, 2013 10:16 am
Wlad Klitschko is the TOP HW of this Era and thats VERY clear… Vitali is on the B squad and there is NO intelligent debate to the contrary… Wlad is the Ring Champ, holds all the belts and had more defenses, faced better guys a few years ago (last 2 or 3 a real decline in quality)… This AUTOMATICALLY means that Vitali can never be near the upper end of a Top 20 list…. You have to be “The Man”….. Guys have pathetically tried to use a Wlad quote about his brother being the “natural fighter” as a substitute for the necessary ring victories which is NOT work… We are NOT accepting affadavits on behalf of Klits as opposed to names on the ledger… AGAIN let old Vitali in the HOF but he is not a guy that really challenges histories best for a slot and that sure as hell includes Lewis who had a more stellar career and defeated him…Posted December 24, 2013 9:53 am
Mo Box, Corrie Sanders is a historically unimportant fighter and a cut above a journeyman besides upsetting Klitschko what did he ever do? beat guys up in South Africa and have you fools making excuses about his conditioning? Holyfield was something like an 11-1 underdog when the defeated Mike Tyson and went on to defend the title more than once successfully… What did Corrie Sanders do? he upset Wlad, did not fight for close to a year then lost to Vitali thus returning to whence he came in the food chain…. The guy was an OPPONENT who pulled off an upset all the cred you guys wanna extend this guy has a devious 2 pronged purpose 1.) Make Wlad look better for getting taken out in 2 rounds 2.) Make Vitalis resume look a little better by inflating Sanders threat level…. AGAIN smart fans see thru these transparent ruses… Merry Xmas!!Posted December 24, 2013 9:36 am
Sorry Vitali fans, but the man does get credit for helping his brother dominate a weak HW division, but that’s as far as it goes. He doesn’t in no-way-shape-or-form surpass the true ATG HW’s and history will reflect this.Posted December 24, 2013 7:42 am
Its’s funny, when you read Tark BS comparaisons, I mean he make the tough but slow and clumsy flat footed Peter look better then Foreman, a fat featherfist Toney gave Peter a lesson in the first bout. Adamek is average, Quarry, or Bugner for instance would have beat him. So big deal Vitali beat them.Posted December 24, 2013 7:26 am
“By comparison Holyfield stopping Tyson in 4 looks like a TV movie moment…” what racial pipe are you smoking SRED? Tyson wasn’t even out of his legs with short hooks Holy was throwing and ref get inbetween in short time while Vitaly brutally beat Sanders from post to pillar in multiple rounds of blood and guts of superheavies that was like a skillful horror movie compared to the soap-opera of mild cruiserweight-like beating Holy gave past the best Tyson. Those two doesn’t even stand a comparison of visual show.Posted December 24, 2013 6:49 am
Some good posts here. I think it is pretty clear that most Heavies of past decades would have had difficulties with either Klitschko but primarily due to the size difference. Ali, Louis, Liston, Frazier etc would have been Cruiserweights nowadays. But I think one can say that in terms of skill, Ali was better than either Klit and so was Holmes. Now, in the more recent era, Tyson, Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis would surely have beaten either Klit.Posted December 24, 2013 6:13 am
Corrie Sanders lone big night was stopping Wlad which is more of a reflection on Wlad than a marker of Sanders true quality.. Attempts to inflate Sanders chops are bit sustainable, he was a decent fighter that was supposed to be a soft touch for Wlad instead he got to that chin…Vitali rematching his little brothers killer was a nice feel good story but not some sort of epic challenge… By comparison Holyfield stopping Tyson in 4 looks like a TV movie moment…Posted December 24, 2013 5:51 am
I just think wlad “with steward in his corner” with greater one punch power faster hands and faster feet and an even better jab than vitali’s amazing jab would have the advantage. Vitali 1 inch taller, wlad 1 inch reach advantage. They are physically equals. They both work off the jab. Every punch and combo is worked off the jab. Wlad would stay on the outside and win by UD. Vitali does has a far superior chin and is much better on the inside but his younger brother would be too good defensively and keep it at range.Posted December 24, 2013 5:48 am
Vitali does not warrant mention as a Top 10 HW and I’m being kind because it’s Xmas, the mans accomplishments cannot be merged with his brother nor Lennox Lewis.. People go on about that fight because the Klit era is gonna be known for some very dull affairs and the decline of the divisions importance.. While the more aggressive fighter Big Vitali just does not fare well when his resume is looked over… He needed that Lewis win to have a talking point that made some sense but he fell FAR short of bagging Lennox instead being pulled outta the deep end with 6 rounds to go…Mixing that with quitting against Byrd, while being only second best during his time creates severe demotions… Again let him in the HOF but he provided nothing special during his reign at the WBC…Posted December 24, 2013 5:46 am
Adrian, Adrian you cannot sell Vitali as the “Undisputed Anything” the mans fans want to make the foundation of his career winning 4 rounds off Lewis and his ablility to beg for rematches.. Sadly for you and Klits desperate fans that’s just not cutting it… There are boxers who went the distance with Lewis or won who deserve more credit… That “Injury Excuse” makes me laugh!!! Especially when it was Lennox injuring Vitali with BLOWS to the Grill…. Sooooooo who did Vitali really beat and how much of the realestate did he control??? The man beat a number of weak fighters and some OK fighters, when you start trying to oversell a part time fighter like Sanders as one of your best it’s just SAD…Posted December 24, 2013 5:38 am
The “Tark dying post” is not mine Tarks
I retired vitaliPosted December 24, 2013 5:09 am
I can except that list change Joe 4 Ali. Maybe Tyson probs could have snuck in 2 the 12th spot.Posted December 24, 2013 5:08 am
Vitali retired me. Fact.Posted December 24, 2013 4:24 am
TARK, you are so bitter I think it would be better if you just died you disgusting old racist.Posted December 24, 2013 4:09 am
Ali isn’t number 2… Too easy to hit… Beaten by neophyte Leon Spinks at 36… Beaten by short, fat Frazier at 29… Beaten by China-chinned Norton at 31 … That covers his 20’s to his mid 30’s.
When was he good??? When he was dumped by 185-pound Cooper???
Vitali had 4 years off and never got hit with a good shot in 7 rounds with 30-1 Sam Peter at 37… At 40 he beats 44-1 Tomasz Adamek every minute of every round and stops him.
Holmes to me was the best other than Vitali… But he was beaten by a guy who never fought above light heavyweight before… Michael Spinks. At 43 Holmes beat Ray Mercer easy… The Lewis-Vitali fight proves nothing because Vitali was outboxing him.. He was winning on all scorecards.. Lewis never cut anyone like that in his life before and he clearly did it with the palm of his right glove … That fight goes to the scorecards and Vitali wins a unanimous technical decision — such as Ward did in the Kessler fight when there was illegal contact.Posted December 24, 2013 3:48 am
if the All Time Great list is the most charismatic boxer, Ali has to be first, if its about the resume, Vitali has to be in top 3
I know in boxing, often older time is better timePosted December 24, 2013 3:23 am
The REAL top ten is as follows: 1. Louis 2. Ali 3. Lewis 4. Foreman 5. Holyfield 6. Tyson 7. Holmes 8. Vitali 9. Liston 10. Wladimir 11. Bowe 12. Johnson 13 Dempsey 14 Frazier 15 Jim JefferiesPosted December 24, 2013 3:21 am
Those lists of the greatest of all time are very subjective and very linked to people’memory with a hint of nostalgy.
i dont think at all that the current era of heavyweight is low compare to the others. It s just about the more than popular: “it was better in the old days”
Ali is certainly one of the all time greats but watching the Foreman/Ali fight (again). Ali was clinching a lot and Foreman was incredibly slow (as AlI said before the fight)
ONE QUESTION: Boxing as we know it, was established in 1867 so we are all saying that there are no all time greats during 70 years!
My point is that lists are linked to people’s nostalgy of the 70’s and few pictures of 40’s
Probably in 20 years, Vitali will stand in the Top 5
Corrie Sanders was 40 years old and very fat. While he had stamina, he was winning clearly. By the end of second round his hands were down, he just was too old to fight for the world championship. He had chance to destroy Wlad within 2 rounds, but Vitaly had better chin. I would not put old Corrie as a big achievement for Klit. I like how he beat Adamek, it was great, and how he outclassed Peter. But most of his opponents were bums, he was avoiding tall fighters and never showed any skills that would let him stand in front of good opponents in good shape. The biggest achievement of his boxing carer – his defeat from Lenox Lewis.Posted December 24, 2013 3:11 am
Absolutely outside the top 20Posted December 24, 2013 2:38 am
Vitali is one of the best heavyweights of all time. Not only one of the best in boxing, but the best at kickboxing, both pro and amateur. He would fight a kickboxing fight, then go fight a boxing fight. Vitali loves to fight.
Vitali beat the living Hell out of Corrie Sanders, stopped him, no contest. I have all their fights on video, both Vitali and Vlad’s.Posted December 24, 2013 2:08 am
Vitali destroyed Corrie Sanders. Arreola destroyed Colonel Sanders.Posted December 24, 2013 1:22 am
Tark you are correct Vitali beat sanders, ross and Peters, these two of these men beat wlad. That wsa a weak version of wlad, He improved significantly with Steward in his corner. A peak wlad would destroy Peters and Ross. Sanders would always be a problem for both wlad and vitali until he got gasses. Sanders even gave vitali hell for the first 4 rounds.Posted December 24, 2013 12:43 am
So near the top but not at the top. He may have been the GOAT if he faced better opposition. Guys like an old gomez, sosnowski, Kevin Johnson, Ademek who could not beat michael grant, short slow fat sam peters, an even fatter solis. I could go on and on. During the klitschko era wlad was no1. Vitali was still great but No2. Always in shape. Could throw 100 punches per round, masterful outside combos, great jab, masterful counters on the inside and then there is the chin. Gave lewis a hell of a fght, had a war with sanders for 4 rounds till sanders gasses and put on a very entertaining fight with Timo, Would have liked to see vitali fight more good taller men. Just never happened. Amazing talent, never been dropped but they guys he faced just were just very poor contenders as well.Posted December 24, 2013 12:39 am
SREDMOND is superbitter that Vitali and Wlad have trounced and overshadowed all his dusty old nig heroes.
It`s really really sad.Posted December 24, 2013 12:38 am
Vitali NEVER became Undisputed something Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfied, and others accomplished.. Klits resume is painfully weak and everyone including this writer knows it… Lennox broke his face at the end of his career as a cruel footnote… Vitalis retirement is causing no unrest in the division because he holds very littler hardware and everyone knows he is NOT the best HW operating today nor has he ever been…
Posted December 23, 2013 9:44 pm
Hahahaha it’s other way around you fng. Racist , when Lewis retired people were all talk because they wanted to see him rematch Lewis who pussssy out , and vitally didn’t let anyone threaten his legacy , he silence them all so no one is upsett that he is retired because he did his job!Posted December 24, 2013 12:20 am
Vitali was NUMBER 2 man during the Klit era and thus is AUTOMATICALLY excluded from the Top 15, no boxer that had no tenure as top man belongs amongst the upper level greats..
Posted December 23, 2013 10:57 pm
Sure …and your thoughts about vitally are just like my farts to boxing fans ,no one listen to them exept smell themPosted December 24, 2013 12:16 am
Vitali beat the Hell out of 3 guys who floored Wladimir 8 times… He stopped all of them.. Corris.. Ross.. and Samuel.
In NO WAY was he 2nd fiddle to Wlad.Posted December 23, 2013 11:56 pm
vitally never hit the canvas against lewis, sanders..etcPosted December 23, 2013 11:46 pm
testPosted December 23, 2013 11:42 pm
VK is the only one who ever stopped him.Posted December 23, 2013 11:40 pm
Being great in lower weight divisions doesn’t disqualify you from being a great opponent.
Ezzard Charles spent many years as a middleweight and light heavyweight… Gene Tunney fought as a light heavyweight up until a few fights before he met Dempsey… Michael Spinks never fought above light heavyweight until the night he beat an undefeated Larry Holmes.
Tomasz Adamek was a 2-Division World Champion who beat a top heavyweight contender and was 44-1… Outboxing Adamek and beating him that way he did at 40 is a huge accomplishment for Vitali.Posted December 23, 2013 11:39 pm
Definitely top 5, probably along with Lewis, Holmes, Foreman, Ali… you could argue Tyson either way. Folks forget that while guys like Marciano and Dempsey were monsters in their day, they would be small cruiserweights today, giving up 60 POUNDS or so to guys like Lewis or Vitali. People also seem to forget that all other athletes have gotten bigger, stronger, faster, and better over the last few decades – why wouldn’t boxers? The guys from the old era couldn’t compete these days, just like the ’72 dolphins couldn’t compete against the teams in today’s NFL. We’ll never know how VK would’ve fared against stiffer competition – against Bowe, Mercer, Holyfield, etc… but he did do an impressive job against the fighters he did face. Folks point to his losses to Lewis and Byrd (which were legit) as a sign that he wasn’t great, but all the greatest fighters, other than Marciano, lost to guys who were far worse – Leon Spinks, Oliver McCall, Danny Williams, Tommy Morrison, etc. Few great heavyweights didn’t receive criticism in their time. As it did with Holmes and Lewis, history will give VK his place among the all-time greats.Posted December 23, 2013 11:31 pm
Tomas Adamek is a former LHW and Cruiserweight he was a decent yet unaccomplished HW his claim to fame was outboxing Chris Arreola who is a known limited fighter… Adamek has struggled with even small HWs like Chambers who was dropping down and Cunningham another Cruiser… The late Manny Steward discussed the mismatch in REAL time as he said “Its a SHW against a Cruiser Adamek needs a stool to reach Vitalis chin”….. Klits did his job, but trying to pass off his quality as a SHW by pounding down Adamek is an EPIC fail, Chad Dawson had his way with Adamek at 175….Posted December 23, 2013 11:17 pm
Lman, makes a good point, Vitali is also a QUITTER and thats just a matter of record.. He was in the ring with a SMALL, Power deficient former Cruiser and he opted to bail once the going got tough… Klits showed balls against Lewis but lets be honest he failed 1 out of 2 tests as it pertains to not quitting when the going got tough… Against Lewis when he had an unyielding BIG opponent he was getting pummelled and bleeding all over the place he hung tough but Lewis was NOT having it… When positioned against his weak resume we have to allow Vitali in the HOF but keep him at the door taking peoples coats…Posted December 23, 2013 11:06 pm
Haven’t thought about it much but Vitali’s def top 10 heavyweight all time. In fact there’s very few ATG heavies I’d bet to beat him at even money…Posted December 23, 2013 11:05 pm
Vitali was NUMBER 2 man during the Klit era and thus is AUTOMATICALLY excluded from the Top 15, no boxer that had no tenure as top man belongs amongst the upper level greats..Posted December 23, 2013 10:57 pm
I’m not sure about that tark and I love the Klitschkos .me being Ukrainian . From the many times I saw that fight it looked like a punch that opened his eye against Lennox Anyway Vitali is top 10 all time in the heavyweightsPosted December 23, 2013 10:47 pm
I see few heavyweights who would have ANY chance of beating the Vitali who beat Sam Peter or Tomasz Adamek… Vitali didn’t lose a round and barely got hit with a solid punch in those 2 fights…
Peter was 30-1, and the Heavyweight Champion at the time. Vitali hadn’t fought in 4 years and was 37.. Peter KO’d a guy who stopped Rahman TWICE.. Remember Rahman took Lewis out with one shot, and Maskaev had little trouble with him.
Tomaz Adamek was a 44-1 number one contender — and many years younger than Vitali…who was 40 years old… How many Heavyweight champions in history could have beaten heavyweights of that caliber at age 40??? Remember, Adamek outboxed Michael Grant and Chris Arreola.. Grant is bigger and taller than Vitali and Peter went 245.Posted December 23, 2013 10:29 pm
One thing that makes me mark Vitali down is him quitting against Byrd due to his shoulder yet he would have been happy to continue against Lewis and risk losing his eyesight.Posted December 23, 2013 10:24 pm
Vitalis departure really brings into focus just how irrelevant to the landscape he has become, the man is riding Wlads coattails and has not really moved the needle in years… Klits had a very commendable tenure as a second string player but being the “Boss” is the province of Top 10 ATG’s….Posted December 23, 2013 10:06 pm
Klitschko is a top 20 HW nothing in striking distance of the Top 10 his resume is largely padded with names that don’t garner much respect.. Herbie Hide, Peter, Sosnowski, OLD Briggs, Charr, part time Golfer Sanders guys like Tark and others can try and create proprietary metrics like “Won 4 rounds off Lewis” to prop him up… By this standard Rahman, McCall and Ray Mercer deserve Vitalis slot on the list LOL…. They did FAR better than Klits and did not have to donate half their face to science in order to attain the result…Posted December 23, 2013 9:55 pm
Tark is right, plus the heavies of the so called golden era or Lewis or Marciano periods were much smaller and there were so many fewer of them. It was mainly an American division without so many from other nations taking part in it. Also Lewis got KO’d totally by two contenders and McCall might have done it twice if he hadn’t just been released from drug rehab and had of been right like he was the first time. Oliver never was in that state in any other bout, Bozo the clown could have beaten him that night.Posted December 23, 2013 9:48 pm
Top 15 ATG.Posted December 23, 2013 9:47 pm
Vitali NEVER became Undisputed something Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfied, and others accomplished.. Klits resume is painfully weak and everyone including this writer knows it… Lennox broke his face at the end of his career as a cruel footnote… Vitalis retirement is causing no unrest in the division because he holds very littler hardware and everyone knows he is NOT the best HW operating today nor has he ever been…Posted December 23, 2013 9:44 pm
He has to be 1 or 2Posted December 23, 2013 9:38 pm
typo – Joe LouisPosted December 23, 2013 9:33 pm
Though his career is overrated, at least Rocky Marciano gets credit for beating past prime greats like Joe Lewis. Vitali couldn’t even win against a past prime Lennox Lewis.Posted December 23, 2013 9:31 pm
Vitali was winning on ALL SCORECARDS after 6 rounds of his fight with Lennox Lewis. The video record, which anyone can check out for themselves, show Lewis committing several fouls to inflict the deep jagged cuts that ended the fight — shortly after the bell rang to start the 3rd round, and after Vitali dominated the first 2 rounds.
I have 2 questions… 1. Did Lewis ever stop anyone else on cuts??? 2. Did Vitali ever get stopped on cuts before or since???
There are 3 other reasons Vitali is the GOAT Heavyweight Champion.
1. Vitali has a better winning percentage than Lewis… 2. He has never been knocked down… 3. He has always been ahead on points in all his fights… He has beaten 6 World Champions, 6 undefeated Heavyweight Contenders and 2 challengers with records of 44-1.Posted December 23, 2013 9:24 pm
Compared to the golden ear heavies and the pre-golden era heavies, Vitali ranks well below anyone else you can name that’s important, especially Lewis. The HOF in boxing is not like professional baseball where it’s very difficult to get in; you can easily get in if you win enough titles and dominate enough tomato cans. So put him in, but don’t dare try to rank him above true ATGs. That’s laughable.Posted December 23, 2013 9:15 pm
Vitali belongs in the HOF but ranking him 2 behind Lennox Lewis is just nuts he simply did NOT carry the responsibility of being “The Man” anywhere near as long nor did he face the level of competition that Lewis did… The attempts at treating he and Wlad like Siamese Twins joined at the hip while swapping accomplishments is a historical break not forthcoming…Lewis was NOT in the business of playing second fiddle whereas Vitali was content to defend the WBC belt for years with no Unification…We know Wlads his brother but it is what it is… Vitalis departure is being met with a muted response because the power in the HW division lies in his brothers hands anyway… When Lewis retired there was a VERY clear vacumn…Posted December 23, 2013 9:00 pm
Dr. Iron Fist and Dr. Steel Hammer. LOL! Uh, OK.Posted December 23, 2013 8:30 pm
I don’t know about his ranking in the all-time heavyweight greats, but his fight against Lennox Lewis was without doubt one of the most exciting in heavyweight history.
But he did also a lot of trash fights with a lot of advertising spots between the rounds. So he both promoted and harmed the sport.Posted December 23, 2013 7:17 pm
I can see putting both brothers 12 to 15 though many will say that 15 to 20 is more appropriate given the era they fought in and those they fought. Both
I might slide Slater’s list around just a tad bit, but, overall, he got it pretty much rightPosted December 23, 2013 7:06 pm
Who has Wilder fought to remotely be considered a contender?Posted December 23, 2013 6:26 pm
Phil.. Yup lol, some real next-gen nutters kicking about ESB thesedays. :)Posted December 23, 2013 6:06 pm
Fans were aggravating Lennox about prime Tyson ….Vitali rematch outcomes. Also if Liston is on the list…Mike Tyson should be for sure…if not in Listons place. Tyson was a genetic freak.Posted December 23, 2013 6:02 pm
Jess Willard was of Klitschkos size. And Dempsey got to his chin like a rabid beast tearing apart his prey. 7 1st round knock downs. Nothing can be proven either way so no one can be wrong…or 100% correct either. I saw a smallish Cooper knock Cassius Clay out. Believe it, he was out. Imagine if that punch landed with 2 minutes left in the round? So then Rocky who hit harder than Cooper….actually murderous power…..couldn’t beat any of them due to size. But all he had to do was land a punch not seen on any heavyweight in history and knock ’em out. The fact is all champions have been very lucky at times to win. Lennox Lewis tweeted me once after being agitated by who he never fought and how he would lose. I just said we don’t know and he said “there are plenty of experts in the UNPROVABLE” LOL. I loved the quote and told him I would use it!Posted December 23, 2013 5:58 pm
Goosey, nice one. Yep still mooching in the background ;-)
Dan, not denying his talents, but Wlad’s been pretty awful to watch the last few years mate (in my opinion).
Phil… All fine, thanks m8. :) Good to see that you are still around here..Posted December 23, 2013 5:53 pm
Top 15 agreed. Wlad is better now in my view. The only attribute Vitali has over his brother is his chin. Wlad has been the better fighter for years.Posted December 23, 2013 5:46 pm
He deserves to be in the top 15 at least .Posted December 23, 2013 5:34 pm
Goosey!! You too mate.
They guy is one of the toughest, if not toughest HW’s in boxing. Most guys his size and height have folded like cheap suits after taking big shots but his chin is rock solid, some serioulsy big punchers have landed shots on him that would have and in alot of cases have put down most of the guys on that list, to top it off he is running for president in a country where politicians are murdered by their rivals, I mean c’mon thats one tough SOB if you ask me.Posted December 23, 2013 5:25 pm
James – that’s interesting stuff. I didn’t realize how tied up the footage was. If I were a corporate interest with sufficient financial backing, I would release the footage (or announce that I will) specifically to provoke lawsuits that might eventually establish ownership once and for all. Even if I lose in the process, I think it would be a valuable public service to at least establish ownership as a step towards eventually releasing the footage.Posted December 23, 2013 5:24 pm
Can’t take Slater serious
Slater if you list was on paper, one could use it to wipe their butt….that’s how ridiculous it is and much it stinks!Posted December 23, 2013 5:24 pm
lets have this discussion again in 5 years, Vitali will be forgotten & totally irrelevant. When truly all time great heavyweights fight the worlds stops. Mostly when the Klits fight people go to bed.Posted December 23, 2013 5:14 pm
hey anonymous take the extra 60 70 pounds off the modern hw, and than you might be able to compare.Posted December 23, 2013 5:04 pm
James.. Xavier. Good posts..Posted December 23, 2013 4:42 pm
dont compare this robot with the real legends of yesterday.Posted December 23, 2013 4:41 pm
I’d probably place both Lennox and Vitali a little higher in the rankings than the article does. Jack Dempsey, for instance, was a great fighter in his day, but Denpsey would be too small to win against giants of the calibre of Lewis and VK, he sat on the title being inactive or just fought once a year, and Jack didn’t fight Harry Wills. Rocky Marciano or Joe Frazier wouldn’t have beaten Vitali either in most scenarios. Vitali lost his biggest fight, true, but barring injuries, the guy didn’t lose. I think VK should have finished his fight with Chris Byrd, but I don’t think he realized the criticism he would receive for quitting though. You can say Vitali didn’t feature in many exciting fights because he used his height and reach to his best advantage and that there was also a lack of great HW in the Klitschko era, which I believe too, but against that, Vitali has a 45-2 record, held numerous championships and made more successful defences than most of the great names of the past, made a good comeback after 4 years out with injuries, was never knocked down or ko’d legitimately in his boxing career and has one of the highest KO ratios of any champ. Vitali would be a tough night for anyone. He was a good champ in my opinion.Posted December 23, 2013 4:38 pm
Demidawg – It’s interesting that you brought up the notion of of extensive footage. We have seen so much of Ali, Frazier, and Foreman because they are corporate fighters. Their footage is owed by and is easily accessible by the big media corporations (HBO owned by Time Warner, Showtime owned by CBS/Sony, and ESPN owed by Disney). Much of the footage of Jack Johnson is there, but the ownership of their copyright is unknown. Much of the film footage of Johnson is stored in Disney’s fight vault purchased from Jim Jacobs because they don’t want to be sued by whoever might own the copyright. The footage is referred to as orphan films. The Klitschko brothers’ fights were distributed in the US on a per-fight basis. The distaste for the Klitschkos by the media in the US comes from the fact that they do not bow down to American capitalism. Wladimir’s last fight in the US was in 2008, and Vitali’s was 2009. The American media downplays the heavyweight division and the its current champions because they’re not American stooges. It really bugs some people that the heavyweight championship is being held at Moscow and Munich and not in Las Vegas or NYC. ESPN will not cover their fights because they can make more money for the stadium owners in the US by suggesting some crazy notion that college basketball or UFC is a real test of athletic supremacy.Posted December 23, 2013 4:38 pm
john l and jackson are turning over in their gravesPosted December 23, 2013 4:36 pm
Phil…. “Anonymous, you’re clearly a stupid idiot.
I would rate Vitali top 5.Posted December 23, 2013 4:26 pm
The cut on Vitali during the Lewis fight came from a punch. Even Vitali eventually acknowledged that and when asked if he was worried about the cut re-opening in another fight, replied: “No, because most fighters don’t hit like Lennox lewis!”Posted December 23, 2013 4:21 pm
He is a great of his generation but not the greatest.Posted December 23, 2013 4:09 pm
Gene Tunney a very underrated boxer smooth and with a great ring IQ.could have been one of the best…Posted December 23, 2013 3:53 pm
James – I understand that footage exists of Johnson, just not a lot of it. Certainly not enough to give Johnson as lofty an ATG ranking as #2. #2? Above everybody for whom we have extensive footage?Posted December 23, 2013 3:45 pm
In the Dark ages of Heavy boxing Klits are at the top of the Charts. Matching them against 80 to early 90’s fighters no contest they would have been blown away.Posted December 23, 2013 3:45 pm
James – a lot of it is level of opposition. I try to avoid blanket metrics like, “Won a title by winning every round” because it ignores who they won the title from. History is littered with unworthy champions who were there for the taking, and I think that should be taken into consideration before saying that one champion is better than another just because he won his belt in a more dominant fashion. There’s a reason Marciano retired undefeated and still never cracks many historians’ top 5. His level of opposition was poor.
Vitali and Wlad will be known for two major things:
2)The horrific quality of the division. No heirs have really emerged as an obvious challenger, and many of the rising stars who were thought to be interesting ended up failing against low ranked opponents. There just does not seem to be much talent in the division, and no real effort to create talent.
Because of that, Vitali and Wlad will probably be left off of most Top 10 lists, and will certainly not crack serious any top 5 lists.Posted December 23, 2013 3:43 pm
Vitali is very much underrated right now, but I think in terms of H2H ability, is definitely somewhere in the Top 5. He has very few obvious weaknesses. He has a great chin, he’s well-schooled, and has a massive size advantage over most of history’s great heavyweights. You would need a rangy master boxer, or a supreme and powerful inside fighter to beat him, and most of the great heavyweights don’t fall into those categories, at least not to the degree necessary to beat Vitali.
My H2H top ten:
Lists like this are rarely productive, and I am ashamed to always find myself to read them. Boxing is such a subjective sport to begin with that I find it funny how people even come up with such an arbitrary list. One would like to believe that time and effort is devoted into developing such a list, but unfortunately these list seem to be pulled right out of someone’s ass. For example, Jack Dempsey is rated higher that Vitali? Why? He defended his title around just once a year, and he went nearly 3 years inactive because he was focusing on a career in acting. And I’m so tired of hearing about the “golden era” in boxing. Ali, Foreman, and Frazier had some great fights, but not one of them was as dominant of a champion as either Klitschko brother. Its almost ludicrous to believe that anyone of them could have beaten either Klitschko when each one of them displayed only glimpses of dominance in their careers. How many fighters in the top 10 won a title fight winning every round? How many fighters in this top ten have never been knocked down? This is just another example of someone who can’t deal with the fact that the heavyweight champion is not an American.Posted December 23, 2013 3:33 pm
Anonymous – your a POS filled with hate, so I dont care WHO the KlitschKOs have or have not fought, because just knowing that a HATE filled maggot like you has been irritated TO NO END, by the KlitschKOs 10 YEAR REIN, is good enough for this conversation. Lol To think that I would debate boxing with a maggot like you is funny! Your opinion is NOT based in reality, just hate, so your opinion is irrelevant anyway! Now go wallow in your hate and pathetic life loser. = )Posted December 23, 2013 3:33 pm
Brazilian Boxing Fan
Great article.Posted December 23, 2013 3:31 pm
Granger – agree on Frazier and Marciano, but Ali’s jab actually has a longer reach than Vitali’s, and Vitali doesn’t have enough one punch bang or the inside fighting ability to get past Ali’s jab. Ali’s greater mobility would have him potshotting Vitali all night in route to either a stoppage on cuts, late stoppage (14-15th round), or dominant decision. Having studied extensive footage of both, I don’t see Vitali’s path to victory against Ali.
For similar reasons, I also think Vitali loses to Holmes, though I think Wlad beats Holmes.
Lewis, H2H, I think is the most potent heavyweight in history. He may not have the accomplishments of an Ali or Louis, but I don’t think anybody but perhaps Foreman with just the right punch can beat Lewis H2H.Posted December 23, 2013 3:31 pm
Why is Jack Johnson #2? I’m sure he was a fine fighter, but with virtually no footage of him fighting, what on earth gives anybody the confidence to rank him so highly, particularly compared to Joe Louis, whom we’ve seen a number of times on film.
IMO, unless you have enough footage to see them in action, particularly against high level opposition, nobody should have a fighter from antiquity on their list.
My top 10. I don’t rank fighters who lack extensive footage unless they hold a major record:
Swedish Boxing Fan
Vitali Klitschko will go doen as one of the top 20-25 best heavyweights of all times and that is great BUT he have not made it to top 10 greatest of all times and is to far away from that list.
Vitali Klitschko have not to many fights in his career to be rememberd for and that is not necesary his fault BUT it will remain a question for many people to deal with. Only the Lennox Lewis fight from back in 2003 and that fight says it all, NOT many to discuss.
Wladimir Klitschko, the 1996 Olympic Gold medalist in super heavyweight and 2-time heavyweight champion of the world with so far 16 world title defences of his crown is the 3rd best ever in heavyweight history, only after the great Larry Holmes, 20 defences and the greatest Joe Louis 25 defences and Wladimir Klitschko have always been the most seen fighter between the two brothers and Wladimir will likley one day land in top 10 greatest list for all his achivments.
If Vitali Klitschko’s fans only can talk abaut Vitali’s failed fight over Lennox Lewis, that says it all.Posted December 23, 2013 3:24 pm
Anonymous, you’re clearly a stupid idiot.
Lol @ Anonymous. You must just HATE that 2 WHITE guys have RULED the HWs for 10+ years now!! Ahahahahaha! Glad to see it has bothered a POS racist like you! Ahahahahahaha! = )Posted December 23, 2013 2:55 pm
Number onePosted December 23, 2013 2:45 pm
You say that Tomasz Adamek, a former cruiserweight and light heavyweight champ, was just too small to fight Vitali Klitschko, but then you give us a list of fighters supposedly better than Klitschko who were smaller than or as small as Adamek. Only Lewis and George Foreman are bigger than Adamek. I’ve seen Adamek standing next to Larry Holmes and he was the same size. Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier were all way smaller than Adamek who would have been a big heavyweight back in those days. Juan Carlos Gomez was one of the best cruiserweight champs of all time with 10 title defenses. He is bigger than most of the guys on your list and he defended his title more against the same size opponents as many of those on your list. Sonny Liston? He defended the title once against the same cruiserweight sized fighter that he took it from, Floyd Patterson. But in Liston’s day being 6′ and 215 made you a monster because almost everybody he fought were cruiserweights. Larry Holmes? He is still the only real heavyweight champ to be beaten by a reigning light heavyweight champ. What a disgrace. Can you imagine Bernard Hopkins or Andre Ward taking a fight with Klitschko without even taking another heavyweight fight. But that is what Michael Spinks did to Holmes.
If you’re talking about best fighter, not best entertainer, not best competitive fights, not most exciting, not luckiest, not most legendary, then Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko should be 1a and 1b on this list. It’s a 50/50 fight between them as we saw. The rest of them: Lewis and Klitschko beat guys that would beat most of them. Some of them on your list wouldn’t even dare to fight at heavyweight today just like Hopkins or Ward fighting at heavyweight today would be considered a horrible mismatch.
Vitali Klitschko never knocked down, never behind at the end of a fight, virtually tied with Marciano for highest KO rate of any heavyweight champ, and dominated his competition like no other heavyweight champ in history. He didn’t allow his opponents to be entertaining. He didn’t allow his opponents to make entertaining and legendary fights. He rarely allowed them to get lucky.Posted December 23, 2013 2:31 pm
Very confused, top 12 heavyweights without Mike Tyson??Posted December 23, 2013 2:25 pm
Klitschko wold have crushed everyone on the list in front of him, including LL, who he was beating handily until the fight was stopped because of a “lucky cut.” No one really believes that Ali, Frazier or Marciano would have stood a chance against the much bigger and tougher, Vitaly Klitschko. The self delusion that they would beat Vitaly, is based upon nostalgia and sentiment, rather that thoughtful metrics.Posted December 23, 2013 2:25 pm
he beat nobody that is noteworthy, and the best opponent that he faced (Lewis) gave him the beating of his life. Not even top 20.Posted December 23, 2013 1:53 pm
Yes, and as Lewis committed a gross foul to open the cut on Vitali, either the bout should have been ruled a victory for Vitali or at a minimum a no contest and certainly not a loss. The foul is not debatable as it is clearly evident on the fight video.Posted December 23, 2013 1:47 pm
he has a commie revolution to get behind.Posted December 23, 2013 1:46 pm
You’d have to put him in the top 10. Perez and Joshua are the most likely heirs. Perhaps Andy Ruiz.Posted December 23, 2013 1:37 pm
Come off it man, the fight against Lewis had to be stopped. Vitali’s face was hanging off! Had it not been for the cut Iam confident Lewis would have got knocked out!Posted December 23, 2013 1:35 pm
Right near the top. Who would be big enough or good enough to beat him? Lennox was lucky to cause that cut. Fight should never have been stopped. Lennox probably goes down in the next round. Lennox would be the only one to be able to beat him. 50/50 maybe.Posted December 23, 2013 1:28 pm