Sad he has a reported $500,000.00 left in the bankPosted July 18, 2014 8:50 pm
You’re a tit all right Patrice Jones
You can’t handle the truthPosted July 7, 2014 5:38 am
Tark is an idiot!Posted July 6, 2014 2:36 am
Bill Patrice Jones.., “However, the overall; athleticism, work ethic, activity, dedication and entertainment value of that era is infinitely higher.”
Pure garbage.., Infinitely higher??? You’re a demented fool if you actually believe that nonsense. You simply hate the K Bros and love the ’70’s blobs..
Calling Peter morbidly obese is the pits, and a damned lie..
Peter was a very big powerful man who held a heavyweight championship at the time. His arms, shoulders, and lower back looked in far better shape than Forman for his fight with Michael Moorer… Check out the videos… Look at the fat hanging over Foreman’s trunks and his lower back… Look at his belly arms and shoulders. Nothing like that was hanging off Peter.
Peter was a much bigger man than George Foreman.. Foreman weighed 217 for Joe Frazier when he was in excellent shape…and 250 for Moorer… That’s 33 pounds of fat and more… He definitely did not have the same level of muscle tissue underneath the fat… I wouldn’t call him morbidly obese… He was a fat guy.
Sam Peter was at his lightest for James Lester at 229… He weighed only 253 for Vitali, not 265 which your lying ass claims to discredit him… That’s only 24 pounds of fat.
That’s why he looks like a far fitter athlete vs Vitali than Foreman looked against Moorer. The muscular definition on Peter’s lower back and his belly showed he was in far better shape than Foreman.. His arms, shoulders, and neck certainly look much better as well.Posted July 4, 2014 6:55 pm
the yanks do love a prima donna,even an english one with a sore toe.Posted July 3, 2014 2:05 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
Turbo Hamster. George Foreman won a gold medal at the olympics. He wasn’t devoid of skill, he just had an awkward style. His punch power was phenomenal. Ask anyone who fought or sparred him. David Haye was supremely talented but he NEVER FOUGHT ANYONE. He took years off at a time, and never realised his potential. He still will probably make the HOF. George Foreman is lauded because of his punch power and because he won the world title at 44Posted July 3, 2014 1:30 am
Compare like with like.
Foreman is the HOF fighter from the 1970’s who has 6″3 and that was considered big at the time – he was supposed to be this monster.
Watch his pathetic wide swinging style closely, like the Young fight, ALi fight, the Lyle fight – his no defence mess, and wet jab. He was useless, and gets lauded as some kind of great.
Then you have David Haye, same height, not dissimilar weight but pure muscle, much faster, technically better, better footwork, better counterpuncher, better jab, better defence, who won`t likely end up in the HOF from this era.
The 70’s so called greats are trading off the fact they were all tr@sh back then, and had back and forth fights that were devoid of skill.Posted July 2, 2014 7:31 pm
testPosted July 2, 2014 7:30 pm
Compare like with like.
Foreman is the HOF fighter from the 1970’s who has 6″3 and that was considered big at the time – he was supposed to be this monster.
Watch his pathetic wide swinging style closely, like the Young fight, ALi fight, the Lyle fight – his no defence mess, and pussy jab. He was useless, and gets lauded as some kind of great.
Then you have David Haye, same height, not dissimilar weight but pure muscle, much faster, technically better, better footwork, better counterpuncher, better jab, better defence, who won`t likely end up in the HOF from this era.
The 70’s so called greats are trading off the fact they were all trash back then, and had back and forth fights that were devoid of skill.Posted July 2, 2014 7:30 pm
Haha you fools Samuel Peter would destroy Ali and Vitali win all round v him, Klitschko have all money all money all victory American is no good. Ali is bum Klitschko is best hahahaPosted July 2, 2014 5:13 pm
Hi, it’s David Toe Haye! I’m called a bum now, but they loved me in the UK right up until my performance in the Wlad fiasco, July 2011. Lots of them really thought I would KO Wlad and win. They bought the Sky PPV package in their droves! I wore an England football shirt into the ring too like the those fat 50 year old blokes with beer guts do, but I was even worse than England in the World Cup 2014!! That’s Brit-Tards and their sport for ya, LOL!!Posted July 2, 2014 2:58 pm
what no david toe haye.Posted July 2, 2014 2:39 pm
The 60’s HW scene was kind of a joke when you consider Sonny Liston quickly demolished frightened rabbit Floyd Patterson x 2 in one-sided farces, Liston himself either plain quit, or got whupped, or threw, TWO fights against Ali. Who knows even today? Maybe the Mob were involved…great integrity of the fight game there then…either Liston is over rated or Ali is…boxers like hopeless triers Brian London received title shots. The 70’s…hmmm, let’s see. Frazier gave title shots to no-hopers like Terry Daniels and Ron Stander, Foreman fought Jose Roman, Ali gave title shots to guys like Chuck Wepner, Rudi Lubbers, Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn and Alfredo Evangelista who would ALL be called ‘bums’ today. They’re worse as a group than Chambers, Peter, Mormeck, Wach, Pianeta and Leapai are. Wlad and Vitali Klitschko are in the Top 10-12 HW ever, imo.
Here’s my top 12:
“Quanity” of more fighters does not mean “quality” the heavy weight division as been a joke for 10-15 yrs easy.Posted July 2, 2014 12:03 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
My hatred Tark? You’re nuts. Go read my journalism. I’ve defended the K bros and the modern era more than pretty much any other British journalist in the past 5 years in both online writing and printed publications. What I won’t accept is just flat out obsession driven BS. Sam Peter WAS morbidly obese in that fight. 265 pounds on a 6,2 probably truthfully a 6,1 or 6,0 frame with less muscle than he’s ever had. That’s morbidly obese in a medical sense. FACTS. The fight was awful, the Peter camp couldn’t locate him for days on end. Not an impressive win. Who did Dimitrenko beat? What has he done of note?
Yes Fraziers title defenses pre Foreman were a joke, yes you can find some truly wretched Muhammad Ali fights. However, the overall; athleticism, work ethic, activity, dedication and entertainment value of that era is infinitely higher.Posted July 2, 2014 10:57 am
BTW.., Championship Boxing returned to Omaha NB last weekend—with a great fight between two highly trained modern athletes… Crawford vs Gamboa was spectacular.
The 1970’s Omaha Heavyweight Championship fight Frazier vs Stander was a laugh.. Stander was a fat blob who got exhausted and quit after 4 rounds.. lol Some fight.
The above followed another ridiculous Frazier title defense against little Terry Daniels.. After fighting these 2 pathetic tomato cans — Frazier fought George Foreman in Jamaica, looking like a fat blob… Ironically, Foreman was in the best shape of his life at 217… He smashed fat little Frazier around like an overinflated punching bag.
After 2 rounds of displaying the most miserable defense I’ve ever seen—and getting knocked down 6 times—the referee saved Smokin’ Joe Frazier from further punishment.Posted July 2, 2014 10:29 am
it has been a laughable division for well over ten years.Posted July 2, 2014 9:12 am
Bill Patrice Jones
The point about how the sport has changed in terms of global opportunity and a far bigger overall pool of fighters from around the world, should never be confused with the argument about the heavyweight division.
What many fans see as real decline in the heavyweight division is down to; the ever increasing weight of the fighters, the ever increasing size, the total lack of activity from so many top fighters, the lack of entertainment value and the lack of athleticism from so many big men.
I support the heavyweight division and defend it far more than most but here are a few good examples;
2./ When Sam Peter fought Vitali in Berlin for the title in 2008 in what was at the time the biggest heavyweight fight for years and most significant. I remember watching Peter nonchalantly standing in the corner waiting for the bell and then, as though it were an effort, slowly raising his arms and incredulously walking towards Vitali to begin the bout. Again I thought ‘This is a 28 year old young heavyweight destroyer whose just won the belt in the biggest fight of his life and he’s about as motivated as I am to start work on monday.’
3./ I stayed at my parents house the night Vitali fought Kevin Johnson and the morning after the replay of the fight was on and I remember my mother and father coming into the sitting room and saying ‘what the hell is this? What is going on?’ These are fight fans, they couldn’t understand what they were seeing it looked so awkward and disjointed.
4./ The biggest heavyweight fight of this century, and one of the richest of all time, Haye Vs Wladimir. Even though There was tremendous skill on display that night with two highly talented athletic fighters it was still a letdown of epic proportions. Both men boxed 12 full rounds terrified of getting hit with not ONE exchange. I enjoyed the fight and the drama of the time but in retrospect it was hugely disappointing. Fight of the century it was not.
Heavyweights were hungrier, more focused, more determined, more entertaining and more athletic in past generations. That’s just a fact.Posted July 2, 2014 2:57 am
Hmmm! I wonder.
I wonder if Cheaterfield still sprinkles ROIDS in his oatmeal & Geritol? He probably uses less now for maintenance of his still pumped frame & his battering ram head. Cheaters are not “true greats,” except in their own delusional eyes.Posted July 1, 2014 11:39 pm
Wow finally!!!! Somebody talking sensible…Posted July 1, 2014 7:01 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
You’re right Turbo Hamster we need to re watch Peter Chambers or Valuev Chagaev instead of Bowe HolyfiedPosted July 1, 2014 6:29 pm
you have real fight fans,and then you have plastic fans who watch today”s hw comedy shows.Posted July 1, 2014 4:46 pm
Holyfield Bowe is more entertaining because the skill level is poor. Like watching drunks in a carpark.
I don`t watch Holyfield at all though. He is a drug cheat. Watching his fights, you are just watching cheating scum denying other people opportunities to earn honest money.
I`m glad he is retired, and it is to the eternal shame of the HOF that they allow him through their doors.Posted July 1, 2014 4:43 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
turbo hamster? Would you rather watch Holyfield Bowe 1 or Chagaev vs Klitschko??Posted July 1, 2014 4:35 pm
One nation, and one small subset of a nation dominating a sport isn`t a sign of a sports health, it is a sign of weakness.
The HW scene of the 1970’s was WEEEEEEAK.
Competitive but WEAK.
I just find it amazing how people want to say “Oh now there is BBall, now there are less boxing gyms in the USA” as an argument.
Well guess what, there are TONS more boxing gyms elsewhere in the world. There are more fighters now than ever, and better coaching and opportunity available to hundreds of millions who didn`t have it before.
Its just monstrously arrogant of Americans to think thatt because their gyms go down boxing has declined, when the number of new gyms worldwide complete decimates the number there ever was in the USA.Posted July 1, 2014 4:24 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
Bears you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about, and the fact that you routinely refer to Muhammad Ali as Clay even when commenting on his post Clay career is a big giveaway. I would never pick Ali over Wladimir or Vitali because they are simply TOO BIG. You have to factor in size to your judgements. I still say prime Ali could have gone the distance with both and Foreman need only land one good shot against Wladimir to get a chance. You are missing the point. The heavyweight top 10 is based on both ability as well as what was accomplished in the ring, i.e who you beat and under what circumstances. Modern heavyweights fight too infrequently, are often under conditioned and are generally too slow. Aside from Lewis, and the Klitschkos there are virtually NO truly big men who are seriously athletic. And Bears I’m Samuel Peter’s biggest fan, have met him 3 times and always loved him. BUT at times he was grossly under conditioned. They couldn’t even find him months before he fought Chambers, his whole camp were beyond angry at him before his appalling effort against Vitali in Berlin. They wouldn’t leave the ring with him, and used to claim before the fight he was training in the forest and running the hills of Berlin’s forests. When we asked to see pictures and footage they said no. Sam had huge potential but totally disgraced himself with his inconsistent work ethic.Posted July 1, 2014 1:20 pm
go to google images and type sam peter. the dude had stomach definition for surePosted July 1, 2014 1:15 pm
under conditioned? please see lyle vs foreman for an example of no conditioning.
also were those guys compubox numbers even close to nowadays averages? the klitschkos DESTROYED compubox records at heavyweight. lennox could hardly deal with the volume coming from vitaly. lennox was outlanded every round! a CLEANSHEET SON!!
who in their right mind would pick any guy from the 60s and 70s over a peak wlad or vitaly?
wlad was on jim romes show and jim was laughing saying “we all know if you fought ali you knock that dude out”
its pretty obvious. making stupid a$$ heavyweight top ten lists in a weak attempt to take jabs at klitschko fans is pathetic and offensive.
heavyweight boxing may be desd to the afro american fan. last i looked wlad is like the 25th highest paid athlete inthe world and his bout with povetkin had the largest purse bid.
heavyweight boxing dead? GTFO bill patrice. come with some facts instead of “i was in a bar in the u.s”
lets take a look at sam
good job we dont have 15 any more,these big slow robots would keel over.Posted July 1, 2014 12:38 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
Tark also remember how many outrageously under conditioned heavyweights there have been in the modern era. Talented big men with potential like Peter and Arreola who just refused to seriously train. How many truly atrocious heavyweight title fights have there been in the modern era? I mean truly atrocious. When I’m in a bar in London (where I live) or am in America and request one of the heavyweight fights to be put on after 2-3 rounds the crowd in the bar have derided me so much for what they see I feel the need to leave. The Klitschkos are severely underrated. They are both top 10 fighters. They are both all time greats. These are FACTS. However this modern era has been poor. Contenders have been either; inactive, out of shape, or simply not very good. These are also FACTS. Occasionally in history there is ONE MAN who seems to see the truth and understand what’s really going on against the tide of popular opinion. Unfortunately Tark in your case you’re not one of them. As a general rule the heavier the heavyweights the lower the quality and the entertainment value and the athleticism. You’re preaching to someone whose staunchly defended the modern heavyweight era in his journalism for years. But give me a f*cking break with your top 10 and your specious nonsense about this being the strongest era of all time.Posted July 1, 2014 12:23 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
You’re looking at it all wrong Tark
Chambers was 35-1 but against poor opposition his best wins being over Dimitrenko a nothing no hoper since and before then and a morbidly obese, yes morbidly obese, Samuel Peter and I attended that fight it was farcical truly farcical. The pace was so horrendous the crowd almost fell asleep. Klitschko should have had Chambers out of there in 5 or less he was dead totally dead on his feet after round 2 and just lay there on the ropes, another fight I attended.
Haye’s record is not great Tark. Audley Harrison was, and is one of the worst heavyweight hypes of all time, so what if Lennox picked him to hype the fight. Audley was never more than top 30. Ruiz was well well well past it when he fought Haye and he still gave him a tough fight. Please Valuev was a freaking corrupt circus act joke. He lost to Chagaev, Ruiz, Holyfield with dodgy decisions well before he lost to Haye. And slipping punches really means little if you only pot shot with utterly shameful conservatism. That fight was a huge let down with not ONE exchange all night not ONE. You mean to tell me the 2nd and 6th best heavyweights OF ALL TIME fight for twelve rounds and don’t manage a single exchange. They were both just utterly terrified of being hit, both extremely cautious and both afraid that if either did get hit they would be in serious trouble. Klitschko won because he could move so well for a big man, he hardly looked sensational though. You’re smart but totally deludedPosted July 1, 2014 12:13 pm
quite right bill. anyone with half a brain knows david toe is a complete joke.Posted July 1, 2014 12:07 pm
Speed doesn’t do you any good unless you can skillfully avoid punches with your speed.. Instead of laying on the ropes and hiding behind your gloves.. Leon Spinks was faster than Ali when it came to slipping punches.
Norton wasn’t fast defensively… At least he got knocked out 4 times – and not all in the learning process..
But Norton was faster than Ali at slipping punches. Not too many give Ali credit for winning 2 of those fights.
Nobody is trying to put Eddie Chambers over Ali… That’s a canard.. But Chambers was 35-1 when he fought Wladimir, and pretty fast and slick.. Wladimir knocked him dead.. The only guy who ever got Eddie out.
The only guy Ali fought who was better than Haye was probably Holmes.. Haye is a damned skillful boxer and terrific puncher who won several World Championship fights..
Nicolai Valuev was 7’1 X 335.. Look at what Valuev did to Monte Barrett.. He was 50-1, and nothing to sneeze at. Haye beat Valuev in his own venue.
John Ruiz beat Evander Holyfield.. He may have been past his best.. So was Gold Medalist Audley Harrison.. but Lennox Lewis picked Harrison to win, and he scored a big upset in his previous fight. You can’t fight everyone at their peak.
Dereck Chisora had been a recent title challenger when He fought Haye.. He was a tough man and had never been stopped, even by Vitali who has like an 88% KO ratio … until Haye scorched Chisora and took him out in 5.
Haye also went 12 with Wladimir, and slipped a lot of punches really well, particularly jabs. Wlaimir would have jabbed Ali and Foreman to death… Both super easy to hit with jabs.
BTW.., As easily as Jimmy Young (19-5) jabbed Foreman, I don’t see the more skilled Haye having a problem with beating George and avoiding the super slow return.Posted July 1, 2014 10:28 am
Bill Patrice Jones
The point is Tark that you judge and rank fighters on their career accomplishments, and the people they beat just as much as their talent. David Haye simply proved or achieved nothing of serious significance in his HW career. He beat Tomasz Bonin and Monte Barrett? Big deal. He squeaked past the lumbering Nikolai Valuev about as conclusively as a very very old Holyfield did. He beat up an old John Ruiz and had a relatively rough time in that one despite the massive power differential he knocked out Audley Harrison, and fringe contender Chisora and he lost virtually every round in a poor poor showing against Klitschko. If that’s the resume of an ATG top 10 fighter then your crazy. You also routinely like to point out the losses of fighters like Ali, even often quoting the conclusive loss to Holmes as part of the argument against him even though that fights a non starter because Ali was shot to pieces he couldn’t even run a mile he didn’t belong in a gym never mind a title fight. If that’s good evidence against Ali’s stature then the knockout loss to Puritty when Wladimir was young and strong must be utterly devastating to Klitschko’s stature right? Or Wrong? Wladimir Klitschko is virtually the only guy in most people’s top 10s who lost to a journeyman before they were shot fighters. So is that significant? You have to make out Corrie Sanders to be this super heavyweight and Samuel Peter to be a destroyer more imposing and talented than Foreman or Liston to support your theory. Both Klitschkos are top 10 but their respective level of opposition means they are NOT and never will be 1 2 or 3. You rank based on ability and accomplishment. Not ONE noted, respected or talented sports writer or commentator would ever argue to the contrary. Carl Froch is a good example. Where he will rank when it’s all done as a super middleweight will be down far more to who he beat than to how talented he was.Posted July 1, 2014 10:08 am
Bill Patrice Jones says.., “All these heavyweight debates end up just becoming thinly veiled debates about race and nationality it’s that simple.”
Excuse me Bill, but that’s exactly what you seem to make your judgment on.
Bill Patrice Jones says.., “If the single most skillful incredible heavyweight comes along who punches harder than Tyson, moves faster than Ali, takes a punch better than McCall and has the skill of Mayweather but he only gets to 7-0 before retiring he isn’t an ATG.”
But Ali didn’t move that fast… Not out of the way of punches anyway… Ali got hit tons.
What if your man moved faster than David Haye?
Tyson wasn’t the hardest puncher ever… Remember, Mike’s punches couldn’t faze the very large Danny Williams, the very large Lennox Lewis, or the very large Kevin McBride… Vitali smashed Williams… McCall blew out Lewis… Wach iced McBride…
So what if he punched harder than Wladimir Klitschko?
McCall or Vitali Klitschko for the best chin.. They could both absorb extremely well.
Mayweather would be the epitome of skill—so he the right skill guy.
Anyone like that you would be talking about the greatest heavyweight of all time… He could win the world title in his first fight… And defend against Vitali… Wladimir… Haye… Fury… Wilder… and Jennings… and retire 7-0 the best ever…
Of course nobody that talented could ever exist.Posted July 1, 2014 9:26 am
Nice bit of sarcasm their Jones… But that’s better than Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Holmes, Norton, Young, Lyle, Liston, Quarry, ChuvaloPosted July 1, 2014 9:22 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Top 10 of all time (This should clean things up nicely for Klitschko fans)
1./ V Klitschko
Bill Patrice Jones
The idea that David Haye is anywhere near a top 10 heavyweight of all time is beyond farcical. In terms of skill, power, athleticism and dedication to fitness he COULD have been up there, but you judge fighters equally on their talent with what they achieved in the ring. If the single most skillful incredible heavyweight comes along who punches harder than Tyson, moves faster than Ali, takes a punch better than Mcall and has the skill of Mayweather but he only gets to 7-0 before retiring he isn’t an ATG. David Haye sabotaged his career through arrogance greed and outrageous ego. He beat no one of significance, an old Ruiz who still gave him alot of problems, one of the worst, if not the worst, titlist of all time in Valuev (by the skin of his teeth and a slimmer margin than 44 year old Holyfield did) and a journeyman fringe contender in Chisora. He badly underperformed in his big unification chance and he fought SO OUTRAGEOUSLY infrequently that he badly tarnished his own legacy. Top 10 cruiser for sure probably top 3 but only a top 25 or 30 heavyweight. What Klitschko fanatics do is insanely overrate and pump up their opponents to feed the idea of their greatness. Samuel Peter becomes better than Mike Tyson or George Foreman Ruslan Chagaev becomes better than Ken Norton, Eddie Chambers becomes some sort of slickster legend and Chris Byrd better than Muhammad Ali. The Klitschkos are both top 10 but they are in no way number 1 and 2 respectively. What you ACCOMPLISH and WHO YOU BEAT are the keys to judging and placing a fighter. Holyfield’s two wins over Tyson and Bowe are far superior to any win recorded by either Klitschko. Vitali’s best win? Samuel Peter? Tomasz Adamek? Shannon Briggs?? Wladimir’s best win? Samuel Peter? David Haye? All these heavyweight debates end up just becoming thinly veiled debates about race and nationality it’s that simple.Posted July 1, 2014 6:10 am
Tark…A correction, Holyfield only got as high as 220 late in his career, but he started out his career as a light heavyweight (for 4 fights) in which he was a thin, muscular 175. Though he may have been closer to 180-185 after rehydrating, He got more muscular as he jumped up in weight…Michael Moorer was harder to get a fix on, as he was an undefined 225, whereas Holyfield didnt add an ounce of fat. But this present era lets fighter jump up easily between weights as there is a step ladder called PEDs.Posted July 1, 2014 5:53 am
That was stupid…Posted July 1, 2014 5:08 am
If Pac has been r01ding, he at least hasn`t been dumb enough to send it to his own house.Posted July 1, 2014 4:53 am
Hey, “If your not cheating your not trying hard enough right” Ask PacRoid. lolPosted July 1, 2014 4:42 am
This is the PROBLEM. People will admit Holyfield is a PED user then just go on to discuss his career like it doesn`t matter.
You can`t trust ANY of his fight. Not a single one. There is simply no guarantee a clean Holyfield wins any of them, and the cheat doesn`t deserve the benefit of the doubt because he didn`t GIVE HIMSELF THAT CHANCE.
His career is invalid.
It is nothing.
He is a cheat.
We have no interest in cheats, they screw the sport, and anyone who tries to participate in it honestly.Posted July 1, 2014 4:20 am
laj…..I really dont know whats so hard to understand about voluntarily taking shots or training ur reflexes. “My” understanding is, Ali allowed some shots to go thru in order to be in a position to land more stinging shots of his own. He very seldom did this when he was younger, but as he got older – he slowed down and “voluntarily” decided to take em’, (he could have “retired” if he didnt want that to be the case OR he simply could have “clinched,” “grabbed” & “held”, like Khan is now doing, Hopkins & even Ward, – or worse he could have HEADBUTTED like Holyfield) of course, as we know, he CHOSE to cover up, he knew grazing & SOLID shots HAD to get thru in order bide time, so as to regroup & catch his breath. Even his own gloves seemed to be pushed & mushed against his face with the shots of his opponents!
When he’d get hit, he’d mock his opponents, saying over & over, “c’mon sucka u hit like a girl, is that all u got, Im playing wit ya, c’mon sucka?” THEN, he’d take more!! He’d especially take em over & over to the body WITHOUT BLOCKING; he believed (believe it or not) he could deal with it. It was a FACT he’d pee straight up blood after those body shots & punishing fights……
I read ur definition about a “reflex action differently known as reflex……” But it still doesnt mean u cant “train” ur reflexes. If a reflex is ONLY involuntary (as u say) why rely on something so unreliable – especially in a life & death struggle like a boxing match? U can train ur reflexes to respond to stimuli…. Counterpunching is a form of learned reflex. Its taught thru repetition in response to prepared stimuli (sparring partners specific punches, mitt work, speed bag etc.) – so that reaction with timing is almost “involuntarily” – so to speak. Maybe someone can do a better job of explaining it to u if they understand.
As a kid I entered Karate tournaments and won. This was accomplished by repetitively “reacting” to the same moves over & over & over again thru sparring, until it became BORING “imagining” different attacks & whatever I “enjoyed” doing in terms of “reacting”. I trained my already quick reflexes with speed that was God given. If u dont believe u can train ur reflexes, then ur free to believe what u want. It’ll be something u simply dont believe can happen. I know for a FACT that they (reflexes) can be trained. Thats what Mayweather “tries” to accomplish with uncle Rog on the mitts. Its like trying to make ur reaction become 2nd nature when responding to “specifics”. Of course ur reaction time slows down when u get older – everything slows down with age…like Tarks thinking regarding Haye & the Klitchkos :-).
As much as Team-Mayweather prides themselves on Mayweathers “hit & not get hit” strategy, Mayweather has stayed in front of his last two opponents. He claims he’s doing it for the fans, this may be true, or it could jus be that his legs are getting old. Nevertheless, either way, he is CHOOSING to get hit, more than he has in the past. I’m certainly not saying its a good strategy. All I’m saying is, it is what it is. Slowed reflexes has a part to play, but so does a “conscious decision” to stay in the sport – if thats the case.
I wouldnt have been smart to rely on my reflexes alone, I let my reflexes work for me, by training it to react with specific subtle moves from prepared stimulus. Its like fakin’ moves, for when the real stuff comes ……..Even if u dont get me…..PEACE OUT!! Excuse the typos & length!!Posted July 1, 2014 4:05 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Holyfield was a dirty fighter, but I think Mike Tyson mythologised his head butt record a bit. Everyone loved Mike so much they jumped big time on the bandwagon of the infamous bite being a justified retaliation. I remember Mike pointing to what was really only a small cut after the bite fight and saying ‘my kids will be scared of me’ talk about overplay it.Posted July 1, 2014 3:25 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Bears why do you refer to Muhammad Ali as Clay? Even when talking about fights after his name change? It’s a bit offensive. Holyfield would be a very good test for Wladimir. This is because when he did get hit with that ramrod jab and big right hand unlike most of Klitschko’s opponents I think he wouldn’t show discouragement he would take it tougher than most opponents can, this makes it interesting. Wladimir likes landing a big early punch slowing and demoralising his opponent and then slowly breaking them down thereafter. he I know that Klitschko technically has harder one punch power than Lewis but he almost NEVER exercises it to the fullest extent in actual bouts. He hasn’t stopped someone of note early since Ray Austin, and he hasn’t scored any actual KO count outs in his big wins. Everyone seems to last well past the sixth in a Klitschko fight and that’s the only thing about him which really annoys me. If Wladimir fought at 90 or more percent then I believe Eddie Chambers would have been gone in 3 rounds, Chagaev gone in about 5, Haye knocked out at some point, Thompson 1 gone the way he did in the rematch etc. Rahman gone in 3-4. I don’t like that Wladimir always has to prolong the beating when he hits so damn hard he could quite easily put people away ala Lewis Grant or Lewis Rahman or Lewis TysonPosted July 1, 2014 3:22 am
I agree… Holyfield was a PED user… But he didn’t go from 175 to 225… Michael Moorer did that.
Holy started at 190… won the heavyweight title at 208… Eventually fought Tyson at 218… That was probably his strongest.
People don’t realize how confident Holyfield was that he was going to beat Tyson by KO… He sat at ringside during Tyson-Douglas mumbling how any good heavyweight would knock Buster Douglas out but how Tyson couldn’t fight — “Once he knock Mike out… Cau 2, 3 more rounds, the title’s going to Buster. I want Buster man. I stopped thinking bout Mike 4 rounds ago.”Posted June 30, 2014 9:17 pm
Anonymous…você é um idiota!
It’s pretty obvious that Copacabana is me (ECAT) … so what?!Posted June 30, 2014 8:37 pm
He is well liked and an exciting fighter, is this why we ignore he was a dirty fighter who used his head, elbows, hit low, and even bit an opponent pre Tyson. And he was obvviously a steroid abuser—he sent a forture to BALCO when they were supplying steroids–and had a dummny account to hide it. Went from 175-to 225 during his career with almost zero fat. Impossible without PEDS. Look at how other fighters, clean fighters, bulked up from 175 and they all lost defined muscles in exchange for mass. Holyfield gained it. As well as gaining an enormous head.Posted June 30, 2014 8:16 pm
He’s not bug eyed. He’s not sitting on a dildo. Something to his left caught his eye as the picture was snapped you jerk. He looks more alert than Evan FieldsPosted June 30, 2014 7:28 pm
That bug eyed guy on the right bottom corner of the pic is sitting on a dildo.Posted June 30, 2014 6:20 pm
Great top 10 list by the way! Perfect except I’d put Lennox under Frazier, but that’s just me.Posted June 30, 2014 5:04 pm
Glad Evander decided to hang em up… One of my all time favorites! Best of luck champ!Posted June 30, 2014 5:00 pm
ICE T…..what ALi who was beaten by 5″11 Frazier, and Foreman who got outboxed by Jimmy Young?Posted June 30, 2014 4:49 pm
Rod-This is friendly conversations please don’t turn this into a race war my friend.Posted June 30, 2014 4:24 pm
Whoever thinks Klit bros. can back to the 70’s and beat Ali or Foreman when they were KTFO by Corrie Sander and Lemont Brewster, and bested by blown up heavy weight Chris Byrd. YOU ARE SNIFFING GLUE!!!!Posted June 30, 2014 4:22 pm
95% of the people who will tell you about how Ali, Louis, Norton etc were so great havent actually watched more than a highlight reel, becaked by a soundtrack of overexcited American commentators and talking heads.
If you just go on youtube, turn the sound down, and start typing in these old time fights – Ali, Foreman, Young, Quarry, SHavers, Frazier, etc…have a watch and they REALLY aren`t any better than a lot of modern day cruiserweight fights in terms of action or fitness, and THAT is what they really represent.
Comparing the 70’s HW’s to SHW’s like Klitschkos and Lewis is like comparing old time WW’s with modern SMW’s, that’s how different the sizes are.
Of course Froch and Ward don`t move like WW’s. Would they ever lose to one? Noooooooooo.Posted June 30, 2014 4:16 pm
i thought sanders was a part time caddy.Posted June 30, 2014 3:34 pm
@Happyboy Sanders and Brewster weren’t bums. You’ll always be a bum though.Posted June 30, 2014 3:14 pm
only to get KTFO by bums like Corrie Sanders & Lamont Brewster.Posted June 30, 2014 2:47 pm
wlad and vitaly would be favored to beat ANYONE from the 60s and 70s thats ANYONE.
imagine if they were both fighting like most of their career nowadays and each wlad and vitaly faced clay and foreman? clay and foreman would go through the klitschko meat grinder AND NEVER GO DOWN AS GREAT. neither would clay.
and the “rope a dope”!?
how stupid is that? who buys that garbage?
rope a dope= stand on the ropes and get your a$$ wooped in hopes the other guy tires from wooping it.
do u have any idea what happens when u shell up against a klitschko like clay did vs foreman?
you get KTFO!
lolPosted June 30, 2014 2:03 pm
i think some of you american fans will have tyson fury in at top 5 pretty soon.Posted June 30, 2014 11:16 am
all these heavyweights have today is an extra 70 80 pounds. they are all a complete joke.Posted June 30, 2014 11:12 am
y and SLIM you’re idiotsPosted June 30, 2014 9:53 am
Evander has announced his retirement at age 51 exactly as I predicted. I am the greatest fight PROPHET ever born!!!!Posted June 30, 2014 8:59 am
Eating and drinking waste is your thing Slim. It’s only way you can get that miniature needle sized dik of your’s upPosted June 30, 2014 6:38 am
Your hobby is drinking that yellow Klit piss…Posted June 30, 2014 6:28 am
That’s your hobby SlimPosted June 30, 2014 6:24 am
Eat sht!Posted June 30, 2014 6:21 am
freakin moronPosted June 30, 2014 6:19 am
You’re an idiot Slim… When you answer hypotheticals you’re still giving your reasoning — which is still faulty.Posted June 30, 2014 6:02 am
Michael Grant won because he was bigger and stronger than his opponents and had an unreal 86″ reach… He was also a pretty good football and basketball player — but not an extremely adept boxer.
Tomasz Adamek out-boxed a 38-year-od Michael Grant, who was 6’8″ X 250 — but lost every minute of every round and was battered to a stoppage by a 40-year-old Vitali Klitschko — who wasn’t as big as Grant.Posted June 30, 2014 5:59 am
ARE YOU STUPID? I said I was asked “hypothetical” question…By this MORON!”Y” i’m outta here gotta get up in the morning this is “stupid”…Have a nice day.Posted June 30, 2014 5:55 am
SLIM CAN YOU READ?????
The Klitschko Bros fought many opponents who were about their height or TALLER, and often HEAVIER… Mariusz Wach is 6’7.5″ X 260… Tony Thompson 6’5” X 250… Derrick Jefferson 6’6” X 245… Ray Austin 6’6” X 248… Jameel McCline 6’7” X 260… Timo Hoffman 6’8” X 253… Derrick Roddy 6’6” X 225… Jose Ribalta 6’5” X 254… Lennox Lewis 6’5” X 255… Calvin Jones 6’6” X 282… Carlos Monroe 6’6” X 253… Derrick Lampkins 6’5” X 231Posted June 30, 2014 5:52 am
NO Tarkie…this idiot maybe its YOU?? but anyway kept asking what I would call the Klits. If they were fighting people under 200lbs regulary. I said “I would say they were winning because they were bigger than everybody” that’s the answer. Now if you are “Y” then man up and say that then…Posted June 30, 2014 5:47 am
@Bill Patrice Jones… Ali actually got hit pretty easily before his layoff…
Two (2) of Ali’s 3 left-hook knockdowns occurred BEFORE his layoff… His 3rd left-hook knockdown happened when he was 29. He never had a good defense and always pulled straight back from left hooks and blooping shots. The fact is that Ali was bigger, stronger, and taller than most of his opponents.. The guys who were bigger and taller than Ali were complete Klunks.. The only really good boxer Ali fought who matched his height and weight was Larry Holmes.
Your contention that the 3 most noted layoffs of Heavyweight Champions were Ali, Vitali, and Tyson is wrong… Vitali is a Ukrainian, and his comeback as Heavyweight Champion wasn’t that widely noted in the American media… Ali and Tyson’s non-title comeback fights after their layoffs were much more widely noted than Vitali Klitschko’s title fight. It’s the disrespect we show European boxers in general.
Other noted layoffs were — 1. Jack Dempsey’s 3-year layoff between 1923 and 1926… The newspapers blasted Dempsey for not fighting or defending the title for over 3 years.
2. Joe Louis’s 51 month layoff between 1942 and 1946… Louis boxed Johnny Davis in a 53 second exhibition match in 1944.. Boxrec.com recently called it a fight, which is ludicrous. No commission approved Johnny Davis, 3-3, as a title challenger — or an opponent.
3. George Foreman’s 10-year layoff and return was well noted and panned in the press.Posted June 30, 2014 5:45 am
Slim, you have a brain the size of a pebble to say the K Bros won because of their size… You never noticed of the size of many of their opponents.
The Klitschko Bros fought many opponents who were about their height or taller, and often heavier… Mariusz Wach is 6’7.5″ X 260… Tony Thompson 6’5” X 250… Derrick Jefferson 6’6” X 245… Ray Austin 6’6” X 248… Jameel McCline 6’7” X 260… Timo Hoffman 6’8” X 253… Derrick Roddy 6’6” X 225… Jose Ribalta 6’5” X 254… Lennox Lewis 6’5” X 255… Calvin Jones 6’6” X 282… Carlos Monroe 6’6” X 253… Derrick Lampkins 6’5” X 231… Marcus McIntyre 6’4” X 256…Who was the shortest of the above heavyweights I listed
The K Bros fought more than a dozen opponents who were 6’5” or taller… They fought more southpaw challengers than any heavyweight champions who came before them… Southpaws were widely discriminated against in heavyweight boxing until recent decades… Lewis never fought a southpaw… Ali was the first Heavyweight Champion who ever fought a southpaw challenger—because for generations heavyweight southpaws could barely get fights… Which is another indication the K Bros faced a broader talent pool.Posted June 30, 2014 5:41 am
Funny Slim…lol Your guys are crazy’Posted June 30, 2014 5:04 am
Get your question straight “Y” ..Mr. I live in Colorado but can’t say what area? Lol…first you asked “How would I call him” you drunk and high fagot. Then it’s “what would you call him” Dude your so stupid you’re not even making any sense .lol. “Russian boy” are you drinking tonight or what. You got the answer to ur stupid question “bloat’ lol…European fag hag…lol.Posted June 30, 2014 5:02 am
I owned your mama fool…lolPosted June 30, 2014 4:54 am
nevertheless slim fahgot. I OWNED YOU!!!!Posted June 30, 2014 3:49 am
clay propagandists cannot answer one simple question : What would you call Vlad if today he fought bottom 200lbs opponents on
hey slim biatch what happened to your clay agenda. it’s all about addresses now?Posted June 30, 2014 3:39 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Ali did get hit too much and when he came back from the layoff he was slightly bigger and was punching hard. However I firmly believe had he been able to continue fighting in those three lay off years and season himself into his body and grow more muscular and heavier whilst actually being active then he would have been far far far superior in his later years. The fact is lay offs sometimes don’t hurt, but often times they do. The three most notable HW champion lay offs are; Ali, Tyson and Vitali. I believe the former two were worse off for having been laid off. Ali always complained of his inability to cut off the last 5-6 pounds of fat in training post lay off as well as what he, Ferdie Percheco and Angelo Dundee all confessed was his lost in speed. Ali was lazy in his first run often by sheer choice, he was often lazy in his comeback years not through choice but because he wasn’t quite as quick anymore. Tyson’s lay off didn’t help although it’s hard to know given he was going downhill anyway. The only lay off which was a surprising success was Vitali Klitschkos. Aside from what appeared to be a huge reduction in his one punch power I think he came back better in every other department. A better boxer, more intelligent, moving backwards better. He rehabed well. Replaced bodybuilding with swimming and learned the benefits of rest.Posted June 30, 2014 3:38 am
I’m not Russian you poosey a ss clay propagandist. don’t change the subject you fkg stoatPosted June 30, 2014 3:32 am
multi name woohore slim is trying his best to change the subject. it’s boxing forum you fahgot. but in case you wanna meet write your address don’t hidePosted June 30, 2014 3:29 am
Another Russian klit piss drinker…lolPosted June 30, 2014 3:16 am
Answer my question you lying European fag hag, what part of Colorado do you live in??Posted June 30, 2014 3:15 am
answer the question you poosey. you act like a fkn stoat.Posted June 30, 2014 3:11 am
Answer my question now? What area in Colorado do you live in????Posted June 30, 2014 3:00 am
This Y dude is drunk., “how would you call him”…Posted June 30, 2014 2:59 am
Where in CO do you live…I have present for you.Posted June 30, 2014 2:57 am
What would you call Vlad if
“How would you call him”?? Dude are you listening to yourself…Posted June 30, 2014 2:48 am
Now what your address in Colorado?Posted June 30, 2014 2:45 am
A BIG FAGOT! Lol!Posted June 30, 2014 2:44 am
for Christ sake. I don’t ask you WHY they win! can you read? I ask you What would you call Vlad if
What your address in Colorado btch? Im serious…Posted June 30, 2014 2:41 am
Holyfied was a true warrior you guys are way off topic. Escpecilally you “Y’ not makin much sense.Posted June 30, 2014 2:40 am
Please give me your address so I can have somebody come over and btch slap you…Posted June 30, 2014 2:37 am
Are you retarded? “I would say they are winning because they so much BIGGER than EVERYBODY they are fighting” That is the second time I answered that question fag boy!Posted June 30, 2014 2:35 am
annnnssweeaaarrrr thhhhee qqquuuesssstttioonnn retardPosted June 30, 2014 2:34 am
What would you call Vlad if today he fought bottom 200lbs opponents on
You are in Colorado I have family in Aurora, Colo. give me your address so I can have them come ovwer and btch slap you…Posted June 30, 2014 2:30 am
“Clay Propaganda” No such thing fool. Ali will shine for ever he’s bigger than boxing. He stood up for civil rights and a unjust “war” that killed over 50,000 thousand people. That now they say was unjust…so GTFOH with your hate and judging people who had courage unlike yourself. Who sits behind a computer being tough with your fingers. Knowing you would get your ast kicked…have a nice day.Posted June 30, 2014 2:26 am
I’m from Colorado you poosey. you didn’t answer my question: What would you call Vlad if
You Russians are hilarious…Posted June 30, 2014 2:20 am
I owned you slim! I OWNED YOU SLIM!!! clay propaganda sucked massively once again! Hahaha :)Posted June 30, 2014 2:15 am
too busy slim? where is your piece of poosey a ss?Posted June 30, 2014 2:13 am
Good list Happy boy!Posted June 30, 2014 2:04 am
hahahaha poosey a ss slim got no heart and no bloody courage! don’t pretend to be a man boy. your just a sissy.Posted June 30, 2014 2:02 am
and I thought you had balls. but you just a stupid keyboard warrior with no brain and huge poosey a ss. you can’t even answer a simple god damn question. answer it you foolPosted June 30, 2014 1:59 am
Like I said in 100yrs NOBODY will remember you or your kids or your trailor park family…LolPosted June 30, 2014 1:58 am
can you read fool? you were asked a simple question : What would you call Vlad if today he fought bottom 200lbs opponents on
@Y…If they were fighting 200lb fighters back then they would have got their ass whooped probably worse, cause the competition was stronger. They’ve already been beat and stopped in this era so WTF do you think would’ve happen back then stupid..lolPosted June 30, 2014 1:51 am
I’m not asking you bout clay you fool. can you read?Posted June 30, 2014 1:50 am
What would you call Vlad if he fought bottom 200lbs opponents on
Your making my point for me you stupid retarded fool. So if Ali was 6 7′ 250lbs then he would have 60-0 then right? Because he had skill, and heart! He would’ve never been KO’d by Sanders, Brewster, or lost to Byrd. LolPosted June 30, 2014 1:44 am
no you didn’t get it you fool. you were asked with a simple question.Posted June 30, 2014 1:43 am
say it fahgot! what would you call Vlad if he fought bottom 200lbs opponents on
don’t be a poosey answer the question you were asked. are you man enoughPosted June 30, 2014 1:35 am
say it fahgot! what would you call Vlad if he fought bottom 200lbs opponents on regular basis?! say it! now we’ll see if you have a courage you pretend you havePosted June 30, 2014 1:30 am
Big doesn’t mean sht fool you ever heard large sack of sht before? It’s skill you don’t know nothing Y I can see that.Posted June 30, 2014 1:27 am
push the buttons with your clay propaganda you multi name woohore. if Vlad fought 185 pounders and struggled with em you would call him a bum cherry picker. wouldn’t you? say itPosted June 30, 2014 1:26 am
mormeck 6 times cruiserweight champ would be a heavyweight champ in 70’s and a hallmark on clays pathetic full of small bums resume you tool. let alone real heavyweight s like peter povetkin Byrd mercer Brewster Thompson wach Brock pulev chambers haye leapai etc. clay wasn’t a heavyweight at the first place he was a fat lightheavy! his opponents are weak small cruiserwaght to lightheavyweigjt bums with laughable resumes. go fk yourself with clay deak you propagandistic piece of fk.Posted June 30, 2014 1:21 am
1. Muhammed Ali
They are butt buddies slim that’s what butt buddies do stick up for each other.Posted June 30, 2014 1:11 am
I don’t give sht who it is…Posted June 30, 2014 1:09 am
Slim don’t waist your time Y is just LAJ or Tark…pushing your buttons.Posted June 30, 2014 1:07 am
@Y…I never said anything bad about the Klits. other then their competition was weak. And I’ve always said that’s not their fault you stupid moron. Ali has been all over the world and sat down with Kings and head of states. WTF have you ever did computer tough guy. I’ll answer for you…NOTHINGsit behind a keyboard hiding like a btch. Never been in a ring before in your life,Posted June 30, 2014 1:01 am
listen to yourself fahgot! you dis Vlad who put his health at stake just like the other boxers! but you dis him you fool! go fk yourself with your clay propaganda for idiotsPosted June 30, 2014 12:50 am
clays opponents are fat middleweights and light heavyweight s. if Vlad fought them fools you biatch would call them cherry picked bums from cruiserweight. wouldn’t you biatch?Posted June 30, 2014 12:43 am
@LAJ…It’s not time to take my meds fool. It’s these btchs like “Y” who have never done sht in there life trying to down talk HOF fighters who risked their life. I’m sick of people hiding behind keyboards takin shots at real fighters. When they didn’t even graduate from high school…Posted June 30, 2014 12:43 am
clay got dozen of gifted decisions got beaten up by ex middleweights. clay was a punch bag. deal with it fahgot b itch a as.Posted June 30, 2014 12:31 am
Slim time to take your meds, no need to get your panties in a twist. Just opinions all of us have them. Ali is an ATG, so are the bros, so is Holy. The all been to the top and stayed there for an extended time. Nobody on here is going to take away Ali’s greatness.Posted June 30, 2014 12:30 am
slim your pathetic klichko hater. go fk yourself with clay dick. what would you say if Vlad fought that kind of opposition that clay fought? check out resumes of clays opponents! they suck! cruiserweight clay punch bag would have a snowball in hell chance in today’s divisionPosted June 29, 2014 11:33 pm
Ali did not have an Emmanuel Steward in his corner.
It would have helped immensely in avoiding unnecessary punishment.
Ali fought Frazier, instead of squeezing him like Wlad did Povetkin.
Ali was a warrior more than a pure boxer.
Even though Steward could not protect Hearns from taking too many shots, he has done wonders with Young Klitschko.
Holy was able to avoid unnecessary shots from Bowe, and regain his title in the rematch- thanks to the tutelage of Steward ( God Rest His Soul ).Posted June 29, 2014 11:22 pm
Ali just got hit too much — He just didn’t defend well.
Ali never lost his foot movement for as long as he boxed.. If you’re 45 years old you’re going to be slower – but not when you’re 36… give me a freaking break.
Ali came back at the age of 28 and was fast as ever.. He was bigger and stronger and punched harder.. Ali even said the 3-year layoff did him some good and he was a better fighter.. You don’t lose speed because you’re off 3 years.. You need a lot of training and sparring to bring your skills back up… but the idea that speed deserts an athlete in his late 20’s or 30’s is nonsense.
Bodies do break down of course.. Vernon Forrest was never the same after he fought Shane Mosley.. Vernon’s left shoulder and elbow went through multiple surgeries, and gave him severe problems in every fight after that.. Sergio Martinez has destroyed knees that required myriad surgeries.. Knees are critical and a chronically bad back can end your career as well… You absolutely need powerful springy legs – and a strong torso and back… Ali had no physical problems — but he wasn’t as dedicated to his craft or the training regimen as some.
Floyd and Wladimir are 37 and 38 – and better than ever.. That’s what hard work and dedication will do for you.. If you’ve been boxing for over 25 years, doing the roadwork and hitting the gym can be extremely difficult … so that’s what really separates the men from the boys.Posted June 29, 2014 10:30 pm
Good post Slim these cats lick klit all day and all night!.Posted June 29, 2014 9:10 pm
@Copacabana…I don’t need to watch that sht. I know the truth fool. You don’t know sht! If Ali was in his prime he would whoop either of the Klits ass. PERIOD you can believe what you want! Byrd beat one and Sanders TKO’d the other. Are stupid enough to believe “Ali” couldn’t have knocked out one of them fools?? I have property for you in my back yard! Their record ain’t sht…bunch misfits and bums! GTHOH…Have a nice day.Posted June 29, 2014 9:03 pm
@the truth . your wrong. mex boxers have huge Mexican American following. paq has huge support of Asian diaspora. and BOTH are fighting only in the us.long term contracted to us TV networks. that’s the difference between these fairly boring American based lightweights and European based boxers like Vlad. that’s the truth.Posted June 29, 2014 8:02 pm
Ivander one of “TBE” has the biggest heart in Boxing. A real true warrior..Posted June 29, 2014 5:28 pm
you lot should be on one of those backwood yank chat shows.Posted June 29, 2014 4:47 pm
I’m still here, but only on and off. Many of us have lives outside being keyboard warriors. The world cup is on, dogs got to be walked, all more important than my opinion of Holy.Posted June 29, 2014 3:18 pm
THERE IS NO WAY THAT A GUY CAUGHT CHEATING, EITHER LIKE MARGARITO, OR WITH EVANDER HOLYFIELDS PEDS, SHOULD BE ON ANY TOP 10 LIST. IN FACT I AGREE WITH TURBO, THAT THERE RECORDS SHOULD BE CALLED NULLL AND VOID.Posted June 29, 2014 3:17 pm
Holy wasnt a fast lefty and had mediocre power at Hvwt. His ko percentage in championship fihts was the weakest of all time at 24 percent.Posted June 29, 2014 3:01 pm
Wlad was KO’d by Corrie Sanders why wouldn’t Evander be able to KO him??Posted June 29, 2014 2:58 pm
Bill Patrice, you forget two key elements in Wlad vs Holy. Wlad is much quicker than LL and two Wlad hits much harder. You can also add in that LL could be dragged into fighting on the inside Wlad would not. Basically Wlad is big strong Bryd and Bryd beats Holy all day long. Styles make fights, and this is a bad matchup for Holy. There is a post of a sparing partner of LL, Wlad, Foreman, Tua, and he said without a doubt Wlad hits much harder than the others, and is the only one to ever KO him in sparing..Posted June 29, 2014 2:54 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
Would have loved to see a prime Holyfield fight Wladimir. If Lewis couldn’t stop him or put him down, wobbling him only once in 24 rounds then I think it silly to think Klitschko would stop him. Lewis is not quite as conservative as Wladimir is, so Klitschko would show Holyfield a ton of respect in terms of risk taking. Holyfield would take chances and bomb forward with skill and purpose to get inside. If he could win rounds against Lewis he could against Wladimir. Very hard fight to pick in my view, and I think Holyfield would be a GREAT opponent for himPosted June 29, 2014 2:41 pm
On last word before heading out the door this morning. The definition of reflexes . “A reflex action, differently known as a reflex, is an involuntary and nearly instantaneous movement in response to a stimulus”. As you can clearly see it is an involuntary reaction, not learned. You can improve your reflexes, but only marginally. You can have very fast hands, and very slow reflexes, which was Ali. If Ali chose to get hit he was a fool, and personally I think he was a boxing genius, not a fool. He chose to get almost KO’d by Cooper, think about that for a second? Moving and dancing is not reflexes, those are voluntary movements.Posted June 29, 2014 12:41 pm
Anonymous never has an intelligent reasoned opinion. He is just a cynical childish parrot.Posted June 29, 2014 11:34 am
lol at how easily peoples minds are manipulated by TV propaganda. they made clay the greatest and tyson the baddest. neither of them was. they made gay mj the king of pop. easy. tell people something from the screen 100 times and they’ll believe you.Posted June 29, 2014 11:30 am
“9 out of ten boxing experts” guy your just a zombie with no own opinion. zombie box owned you.Posted June 29, 2014 11:20 am
sorry retard,i mean wladdy or david toe.Posted June 29, 2014 10:54 am
9 out of ten boxing experts have either ali or louis number 1. never heard them name the great david toe haye in the top 50. LOL.Posted June 29, 2014 10:36 am
Swedish Boxing Fan
For the love of …. sake look at this.
“Dr Steel hammer” Wladimir Klitschko (62-3-0 KO’s 52) is a 1996 Olympic gold medallist in super heavyweight & reigning 2-time world heavyweight champion with so far having fought in 25 world heavyweight title fights (23-2-0 KO’s 18).
Wladimir Klitschko have now been the heavyweight world champion since 2006, that is 8 years of reigning rule as champ and still counting. The 2nd longest champion reign of all times with only Joe Louis’s reign of 11 year higher in heavyweight history.
Klitschko have defended his world title crown 16 times since 2006 and still counting with his 17th coming up in September against #1 contender Kubrat Pulev.
He have defeated over 10 recognised world champions so far in: Chris Byrd x2, Hasim Rahman, Lamon Brewster, Samuel Peter x2, Ray Mercer, David Haye, Ruslan Chagaev, Sultan Ibragimov, Jean-Marc Mormeck & Alexander Povetkin.
Also defeated over 19 recognised top contenders so far in: Tony Thompson x2, Jameel McCline, Francois Botha, Monte Barrett, Ray Austin, Eddie Chambers, Calvin Brock, Alex Leapai, Eliseo Castillo, Davarryl Williamson, Daniell Nicholson, Fabio Eduardo Moli, Axel Shulz, Phil Jackson, David Bostice, Derrick Jefferson, Charles Shufford, Francesco Pianeta, Mariusz Wach and more
Klitschko is simply the best heavyweight in the world and is a super athlete and well schooled heavyweight boxer that no heavyweight out there seems to be good enough to defeat him.
Also Wladimir Klitschko is a great ambassador for the sport of PRO boxing Internationally. No scandals, no trash talking, no disrespectful attempts etc, just a great guy.
He is a face and national hero for his native Ukraine.
What more does the man need to do to get his well deserved credit? Nothing is the answer.
People born in North America and South America just don’t like the fact that the best heavyweight in the world is not born in AMERICA.
Give him his well deserved credit!Posted June 29, 2014 9:58 am
bullsheit heavyweights ATG list by Slater. most of his boxers werent heavyweights at the first place. clay. frazier. louis. marciano. dempsey. you try to compare em natural 185 pounders to modern 245 pounds heavies like Vlad, Vitali and Lewis? slater once again proved he has no understanding of boxing game. but he’s a loyal propaganda tool.Posted June 29, 2014 8:23 am
THE TRUTH IS. heavyweight record of holyfield is 26-10. A BUM.Posted June 29, 2014 8:08 am
who is this idiot that wrote” Ali CHOSE to get hit…that his choice, there was nothing wrong with his reflexes.”? what man in the world would have chose to get hit in the head? the guy who wrote that is a brainwashed dummy.Posted June 29, 2014 8:02 am
holyfield famous? yes. BUT 44-10 – A BUM’S RECORD. He’s a good cruiser but a bum heavyweight. don’t over hype this boxer.Posted June 29, 2014 7:53 am
Quit with this stupid clay propaganda. he was a bullsheit boxer who got himself brain damaged. all this clay myth is a fkn propaganda.Posted June 29, 2014 7:42 am
I hope Holy finds peace and contentment during this next phase of his life. He has earned it. A warrior in the truest sense of the word.Posted June 29, 2014 7:12 am
“I’m obviously an American—but most Americans won’t give any credit to Europeans. Euros are coming on right now. We don’t give them enough credit. I also go back in the game a long way, and know these American heroes weren’t that good.”
Tark, if as you say you go back so far in the fightgame then you must have been part of the problem why American fighters weren’t that good back then. Catch-22. If you ain’t part of the solution you sure are part of the problem. Or are you just blowing smoke, again?Posted June 29, 2014 7:02 am
burst a buble
The futures bright. The future is changevPosted June 29, 2014 6:23 am
Yep i’m proud btch…is your sister proud? lolPosted June 29, 2014 6:18 am
Are you proud of yourself now? Keyboard warriorPosted June 29, 2014 6:14 am
That’s more than your ugly sister saw…lolPosted June 29, 2014 6:11 am
Im not TARK you moronPosted June 29, 2014 6:08 am
I’m from the UK I only saw one Ali fight and that with Foreman in Ziare on tape. I just think this Tark idiot is stupid and misinformed.Posted June 29, 2014 5:24 am
Sorry Tark i’m not cuban missing link or anonymous just somebody who recognizes ignorance. You haven’t insulted my hero, russian defector. lolPosted June 29, 2014 5:19 am
If Ali wanted to get hit he wouldn’t have hidden behind his gloves. If you want to get blown up you don’t build a bomb shelter. Nobody wants to get hit by a heavyweight. Although with Jimmy Young it was more like a featherweight, so you would tend to get careless after about 5 rounds of pecking and that’s what he was counting on.Posted June 29, 2014 5:14 am
” Ali CHOSE to get hit…that his choice, there was nothing wrong with his reflexes. “`
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!Posted June 29, 2014 4:55 am
‘FAKE Anonymous’ lol. thats not a ‘real’ handle you moron. Anonymous is anonymousPosted June 29, 2014 4:25 am
Frank Bruno will slaughter David Haye. Period.Posted June 29, 2014 4:23 am
FAKE Anonymous below… Look out for all his lying ass BSPosted June 29, 2014 4:19 am
These are FAKE Tarks you guys, the real TaRK doesn’t say stupid sht like this keep that in mind people.Posted June 29, 2014 3:44 am
I’m in the UK, Tark you lying fagot you are Russian and you know it…stop denying your heritage you lying piece sht!Posted June 29, 2014 3:42 am
Tark stop lying you are Russian you lying sht bag…just cause you live in USA doesn’t mean your not Russian.Posted June 29, 2014 3:30 am
CUBAN MISSING LINK
@DRX…Just like you should’ve been a myth. But your mama had you anyway..Posted June 29, 2014 3:27 am
Kinda like when sorry ass Byrd beat Vlad, he didn’t beat him up he just won the fight..Posted June 29, 2014 3:25 am
I DONT THINK SPINKS EVER BEAT UP ALI STUPID. HE JUST OUT WORKED HIM AND WON THE FIGHT.Posted June 29, 2014 3:21 am
Cuban Missing Link
Tark–Ali was old and washed when he fought Leon Spinks moron.Posted June 29, 2014 3:20 am
I could GAF less what stupid jerks think… Idiots calling me a Russian.
I’m obviously an American—but most Americans won’t give any credit to Europeans. Euros are coming on right now. We don’t give them enough credit. I also go back in the game a long way, and know these American heroes weren’t that good.
Ali would have no chance in hell against Lewis or the Klitschko Bros. A little 197-pound guy with 7 fights, like Leon Spinks, beat Ali up.. Ali was the only top heavyweight Spinks ever beat in his life, but Ali was simply ducking Holmes—who he knew was too good for him.
The funny thing is…they were showing Ken Norton’s KO loss to super skinny 188-pound Jose Luis Garcia on TV. Garcia was a neophyte with only 12 wins.. I was thinking, “I’ll bet Ali fights Norton next.” Everybody knew Norton was chinny, but here it was being advertised on TV – so he would be an attractive opponent.
That was just a random thought… When Ali-Norton was signed it blew me away.
I said, “I’ll bet Norton gives Ali a damned good beating” Quite a few pro boxers agreed with me. Norton was an egotistic ass and he didn’t like Ali.. Ali pretended to be an egotistic jerk, but that was all an act. Ali was really a nice guy. He was regular guy and not self conscious at all. Ali would talk to anybody like he was your neighbor. Norton was the guy who thought he was the prettiest and bragged a lot.. He was so self conscious it was obnoxious.
Anyway the result was no surprise… What was amazing was Norton showing up weighing 205 for the rematch… I thought Norton won, but that was their closest fight. Norton didn’t have any strength. I always wonder how people who’re so self conscious about everything let something like weight get away from them. I would think any boxer in training would weigh himself 3 times a day—but Norton said he was surprised and thought he was 10 pounds heavier.
The boxers of the 70’s were much more beatable, and smaller and weaker than the heavyweights today… You saw what Foreman at 6’3″ X 217 did to a super fat 214-pound Frazier… What kind of World Champion defends his title looking like that??? Frazier was so weak, flabby, and wide open it’s a joke to even talk about it… It was like a guy pounding a heavy bag for all the resistance George got from Frazier… But little Smokin’ beat Ali.Posted June 29, 2014 2:49 am
WHY CAN’T SOME PEOPLE ACCEPT OTHER OPINIONS ?????Posted June 29, 2014 2:07 am
ALI WAS A MYTH. He was not the greatest , that’s bullsh!t.Posted June 29, 2014 1:56 am
The fake TARKs are less of a troll than the real one.
He invents stuff all the time – 99% of the quotes he attributes to Wlad he never said.Posted June 28, 2014 10:18 pm
Tark is trolling that’s all he does these days’Posted June 28, 2014 9:59 pm
@Piechucker…good thread, but his credit is running out real fast saying stupid sht like David Toe Haye is ranked #6 and Ali ranked #10. Not only is his credit gonna run out. He’s gonna owe..Posted June 28, 2014 9:53 pm
Remember Gotti?Posted June 28, 2014 9:53 pm
Zah …..it may sound ridiculous, but MANY boxers do it! The give & take approach is what is appreciated by MOST boxing fans! Guerrero just said in his LAST fight, that he “CHOSE” to fight like that for the fans! Mayweather even said he’d fight Maidana straight up for the fans, he did, but didnt look good at it, at all. We all know how Mayweather, has trained his “reflexes” to evade punches. but, he now along with MOST boxers sees some thrill behind it (getting hit to hit back). Ali in some way – did also.Posted June 28, 2014 9:51 pm
SLIM – TARK’s got credit in the bank, courtesy of years of mostly interesting and informative posts. yes, he’s way off the mark with the david “the toe” haye comments, but not everyone is right all the time, and opinions by their very nature can never be wrong. I found his post highlighting the excellent records of klit opponents to be a good post. He fails to ention that in this day and age records can be padded with cans. remember Tye “big sky” Fields. that big oaf had his record at like 43-0, and he was a tomato can. same with valuev. have a nice dayPosted June 28, 2014 9:42 pm
Ali CHOSE to get hit…that his choice, there was nothing wrong with his reflexes. I jus think he never thought getting hit would bring on such a bad result! Us guys, I’m SURE, did some things in our younger days that we had NO IDEA would come back to haunt us physically. I’m a recipient of pain from my crazy younger days! I was advised from my mom (especially) & dad to not do the crazy things i did….did i listen…NO! Ali is no different!Posted June 28, 2014 9:34 pm
Peoples feeling getting hurt on here huh…that’s what happens when you say stupid sht.Posted June 28, 2014 9:32 pm
I thought Marvin camel was the greatest cruiser of all time or Rickey parkeyPosted June 28, 2014 9:31 pm
Cuban Missing Link
Don’t be butthurt Laj..lolPosted June 28, 2014 9:30 pm
Since the thougtful conversation and discussion has tyrned from Holy time to do something more productive with my time.Posted June 28, 2014 9:24 pm
Ali evaded many punches thru head movement and dancing away! Thats how Ali CHOSE to use his reflexes. When he got older he chose to get hit. Reflexes are trained to be used the way a boxer wants them to be used! Reflexes dont automatically help u evade punches. Roy Jones in my opinion has the fastest hands Iv ever seen on a human, but his reflexes dont save the day, they simply help, when trained to be of assistance. Ali for his size had the reflexes of a cat for such a big guy! The 1st ever heavyweight he fought against said, (Im paraphrasing)”The thing that surprised me about him, was that he was so big yet very fast”. Like I said, he was blessed with GREAT reflexes. Check his pre professional fights on utube; he trained his reflexes the way he saw fit. There is hardly a person on this planet that has “poor reflexes.” They become worse with age, or their nervous proclivities can have their reflexes work against them when scared…..when its all said and done, u can train ur reflexes. I was born with very fast reflexes, Im naturally quick, but it works against me (doing ANY sport) if I play something without learning the fundamentals. Ali was as healthy as they come with some of the BEST reflexes known to man, his decision to take shots was post jail. He rarely moved again like he moved in his Sonny Liston days.Posted June 28, 2014 9:23 pm
No Cuban, hut I am sure you would love to get on yours knees in front of him, so go for it.Posted June 28, 2014 9:20 pm
You can’t fight a hall of famer. They can’t get into the Hof until they retire. Many of Alis Hof opponents did not deserve it and only got in because they beat Ali and nobody else of significance. Wlad dominates so no one is capable of getting in. That in itself is an achievement. Wlad has beaten 9 champions, as many as Ali.Posted June 28, 2014 9:19 pm
Cuban Missing Link
It’s easy to dominate not fighting anybody, LAJ. are you secretly Tark? or are you guys boyfriends?Posted June 28, 2014 9:16 pm
Well lets see…Ali fought 9-10 HOF’s and the Klit sisters between them both have fought “0”…that’s what laughable LAJ! HaHaHaHaHa.Posted June 28, 2014 9:13 pm
David Haye lost to Carl Thomson. lol. and now he can beat Ali? ESB use to be respectable..lolPosted June 28, 2014 9:10 pm
Cuban what is laugheble about it. Wlad’s record is better, his domination, is better, etc. Nothing laughible about it.Posted June 28, 2014 9:05 pm
This fool has David toe Haye beating Ali, now that is utterly ridiculous,Posted June 28, 2014 9:05 pm
Cuban Missing Link
Tark doesn’t understand the dynamics of competition and that is obvious. Comparing Muhammed Ali boxing competition record to the Klits competition record is laughable.Posted June 28, 2014 9:00 pm
Ali was great despite his shortcomings, so is any 0ther heavyweight that dominates or is a major factor during his era. The bum or great mindset is ugly.Posted June 28, 2014 8:59 pm
Tark is Russian for real!!???Posted June 28, 2014 8:56 pm
Lionhard, Ali had probably the fastest hands and feet of any heavy, but his reflexes were poor. Otherwise how do you explain the fact anytime he stopped dancing he was easy to hit. Fact is he either didn’t see the punches, like the left hook, or his reflexes were too slow. Again this isn’t speed.Posted June 28, 2014 8:55 pm
But he’s losing credibility doing all this trolling.Posted June 28, 2014 8:54 pm
Tark is Russian he doesn’t care about Ali or Frazier, or Holmes or Foreman, Tyson or any of the greats that paved the popularity of boxing…he doesn’t know any better. He’s Russian.Posted June 28, 2014 8:51 pm
@Swedish boxing Fan…Good post!Posted June 28, 2014 8:47 pm
Tark is a fookin tool, ya digPosted June 28, 2014 8:33 pm
Holyfield has one dirty SOB he would come in with that big melon head and head butt step on toes do whatver he could to win. A true tough warrior. He needs to hang them up hell he should have a long time ago its just sad that he had to fight past his prime because he was broke. He speech is slurred and he probably has brain damage so sad….Posted June 28, 2014 8:22 pm
What Legacy? Stuck around too long and ruined it.Posted June 28, 2014 7:24 pm
haye is a joke in england, but its good to see some americans love him.Posted June 28, 2014 7:16 pm
Turborino-Hamsterez loving the Colombians
Carl Thompson was no mug. Youtube Thompson vs Rothman. YOu might actually need to search for BRUTAL KO.Posted June 28, 2014 7:14 pm
No sleeping stupid… Haye had 10 fights versus like 36 for Stevens. Haye was on his feet when his corner wisely pulled him out… He didn’t like it, but understood their reasons..
The fight was premature, so he faced Wladimir with one loss and Wladimir had 3… He was 25-1, Everyone loses a fight or 2 if they’re not matched super carefully. You have to take risks.
Just because somebody is 40-0 doesn’t mean he can boxPosted June 28, 2014 7:06 pm
funny how people forget the toe man got put to sleep by carl the cat.lol.Posted June 28, 2014 6:52 pm
wladdy and toe haye a superfight. LMFAO.Posted June 28, 2014 6:35 pm
Sredmond.., YOU’RE lack of ANY Boxing IQ stands out like green hair.. You’re the IDIOT who picked Peterson to beat Matthysse after I gave my reasons why a brawler never does well with a puncher…
If you have ANY IQ you know that… So for the next fight you picked Matthysse to KO Danny Garcia… I explained to Joseph Herron why that was unlikely to happen… and later Why Marquez was unlikely to KO Bradley.
I also explained to a lot of Floydiots why Floyd wasn’t going to KO Canelo… You got all the above WRONG..
Your latest misfire was predicting Russell would dust Lomachenko… something so unlikely it was absurd.
Sredmond.., You have the lowest Boxing IQ of anyone I’ve ever seen… You don’t have a clue what’s happening.Posted June 28, 2014 6:27 pm
Good thread SREDMOND..Posted June 28, 2014 6:18 pm
Tark, your lack of boxing IQ is really SAD, you try to peddle wins and losses of Ancient versions of boxers as if they really depict who the fighters at to within reasonable distance of Peak…If Wlad defeated Evander today you would say “Holyfield always had trouble with tall guys who could jab” “Ali never dealt with a good boxer that’s why Larry Holmes beat him” dude your a FAKE and your analysis is inadmissible EXCEPT to other DAFT individuals…Martinez was still standing Champ, you picked him to win and then when Cotto wasted him suddenly “he just beat a shell” MEANWHILE Ali and Holy were in their prime when Holmes and Toney took them? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA go tell a real boxing writer that, he would urinate in your face..Posted June 28, 2014 6:02 pm
Turborino-Hamsterez loving the Colombians
SREDMOND, David HAye was a two weight world champion – all but 2 of his wins coming by KO. He was 6″3 and a very trim , coming in not far off the weight Foreman weighed for Ali.
The fight with Wlad was a unification, fought in a stadium , the biggest HW fight in 10 years.
They each made about 15 million pounds of 25 million US dollars.
That IS a superfight whether you like it or not.
It was tactical with Wlad refusing to walk into Hayes trap of drawing something he could counter over with the right, but was a far higher skill contest than fights like Foreman-Frazier.
You are unable to evaluate the Klitschko’s or current era through your weird hatred. You go on about the 70’s fights – I dont think you have watched half the HW title fights from that time. Have you sat through the Ali-Norton fights – they were awful, ditto a lot of Foreman. Frazier was a one trick pony.Posted June 28, 2014 5:57 pm
Tark, Haye vs Wlad is NOT. Superfight was not a Superfight that showcased the BEST of either boxer! It was a stinker where both guys did not wanna risk getting stopped Haye threw scant punches and Wlad cautiously pursued until the 12th round where he seemed to realize he was gonna get saddled with being the co-architect of another boring fight…The defeat of Haye is not a massive feather for Wlad because the fight was AWFUL, Hayes road to a title went thru a host of SHOT fighters and Valuev who many think an ANCIENT Holyfield defeated… Face Facts David Haye is not even Top 40 at HW. He is a gifted athlete but injuries, inactivity and weird stances have squandered his promise beyond Cruiserweight at this point.. Even though Dogs lik Bears were terrified to see him against Vitali after he FLATTENED Chisora who Klits spent a good portion of the night fighting off the back foot against..Posted June 28, 2014 5:34 pm
@Tark…”Slim pickings” funny lol. For the last time I think Vlad is good fighter, not knocking him at all. Also Emanuel Steward from KRONK gym was one of the greatest trainers of all time!! I’m knocking his competition over his career that’s it. I saw the Lennox fight I was pissed because I don’t like Lennox, I thought Vlad was robbed by the stoppage. I never saw the Byrd fight so can’t comment on that. But hes fought bums is competition level was not tough as Ali’s period. “Tarkie” lol. Have a nice day.Posted June 28, 2014 5:31 pm
Cuban Missing Link
Your boyfriend Tark has no credibility anymore on ESB by saying too much stupid sht.Posted June 28, 2014 5:19 pm
laj……I cant believe what im reading, his “reflexes and peripheral vision were no good”(??)……if anything, he could be in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the BEST of at least those two “gifts,” out of ALL the heavyweight ever! …this time im out….PEACE!Posted June 28, 2014 5:18 pm
Time to stop being a keyboard warrior and go enjoy this beautiful northern Cali day.Posted June 28, 2014 5:16 pm
Slim pickings says… “but they stopped the Klits.”
They didn’t stop Vitali… Vitali was never knocked down and was never behind on points… Guys who knocked Wladimir down 8 times were beaten up and stopped by Vitali… VK lost 2 fights but was winning both when they were stopped. Only injuries beat him.
Wladimir.., “Vitali was a natural fighter. Everything came easy to him in Boxing and fighting in general. He didn’t need a coach. He was fearless. I wasn’t. I’m not a natural. I’m a natural athlete but not a natural fighter. I did everything wrong. I needed a great trainer like Steward to correct all the things I was doing wrong…”Posted June 28, 2014 5:14 pm
@laj…i’m a fan boxing in general, not just Ali. I’m fan of Ray Leonard, Ray Robinson, Duran, Hearns, Marciano, Holmes, Jack Johnson, Delahoya, Trinidad, Holyfield, Cotto, GGG, Chavez sr, Whitaker, and a few more. Just FYI. Have a nice day.Posted June 28, 2014 5:10 pm
Hi Slim, none of the fighters you listed stopped Vitali, only Wlad. Sanders had the power to stop pretty much anyone in the first few rounds. Brewster was also a puncher, as was Purrity. Brewster and Purrity were not the best boxers in the world, and if you watch the fights you will see Wald dominate 98% of the fights. They should have never beaten him, but they did, they wouldn’t now, even on their best days. Ali also lost to fighters he shouldn’t have lost to, but the difference is Ali was not dominating the fighters, and in fact rarely dominated fighters. My biggest knock on ali is his reflexes and peripheral vision were no good. He was hit rather easily by most of the fighters he fought. This shortened his career. He also never fixed a lot of the flaws in his game. What really kept him at the top was his great fighting mind and drive to win.Posted June 28, 2014 5:04 pm
Another thing that is so stupid is Tark and you guys always give the Klits credit for beating fighters who beat other fighters. Styles make fights, just because they beat a fighter who beat Foreman for example. That means they could’ve beat a young Foreman?? C’mon that’s ridiculous. So Purritty, Brewster, Sanders could’ve TKO’d Ali, or Tyson. That’s joke…but they stopped the Klits. It’s all speculation.Posted June 28, 2014 4:54 pm
Hi Tark, actually that punch that Haye landed should have shown doubters that Wlad’s chin is not so bad. Wach nailed him pretty clean also though. Haye was harder, Wach more force.Posted June 28, 2014 4:53 pm
Well slim I have posted a number of times on the fallacy of Ali’s competition. Really the top 10 in the 70’s were good, not great, otherwise how do you explain Wilt and Spinks? Below the top 10 there wasn’t anybody. Today the top 20 still has good fighters. Norton was overrated and never should have gone to the HOF. The only fighter of significance he beat was Ali, everyone else beat him, most KO’d him. Foreman was 5-3 with only a 50% KO ratio in championship fights, again overrated. Frazier never fought the best in his era other than Ali and Foreman and he was 1-4 in those fights. Fact is Wlad has beaten bigger, faster, stronger, more champions and more technically skilled fighters than Ali. And Wlad beat all the best in his era, as did Ali. Don’t even get me started on the 60’s.Posted June 28, 2014 4:51 pm
Ali effective with a broken Jaw??? NO he wasn’t… Ali got the crap beaten out of him… He wasn’t effective at all.
Wladimir didn’t break Haye’s toe… Haye had that toe when he stepped into the ring… He still won a couple rounds… It wasn’t a 12 rounds to zero (0) affair like everybody else Wladimir fought over the last 7 years…
Everyone who thinks Haye didn’t land the hardest punches on Wladimir that he’s been hit with for 10 years… didn’t watch the fight.Posted June 28, 2014 4:49 pm
The ramifications of FOUR years in JAIL is FAAAAR different than fighting FOUR for FREEDOM in WAR! Hell, u got the whole of the US on your side with BANNERS & RESPECT waiting!! With “jail” for a rap of RAPE, ur lucky if someone spits on u! C’mon Tark, we ALL know Tyson was SENSITIVE & a HEAD CASE after jail. He was showing signs of it EVEN before jail. His pampered world COLLAPSED, jus like yours would have after Haye LOST to Tyson. With or without intimidation Haye would have been FLATTENED by a Cus’ & Rooneys Tyson! But we’ll never know, so PEACE to u my delusional friend – theres no getting thru to u except thru bourbonization!!! PEACE!Posted June 28, 2014 4:45 pm
Yea, Tark I don’t know who would win between Haye and Holy, but Holy had a much better chin than Tyson did. If Haye went downstairs I could see him doing harm, but Holy was tricky and often got other fighters to fight his fight. For instance Bryd and Iggy beat and would always beat Holy all day like a drum, because they didn’t get into the trenches with him. On the other hand he was able to drag LL and Bowe into the inside fighting. If Haye stays outside he wins, makes a mistake and gets macho and it would be interesting.Posted June 28, 2014 4:43 pm
I do think the Klits are decent fighters, I just think they are in a era where the competition is weak that’s all…I think Ali had a lot tougher competition in his era. And yes I do not agree with Tark he discredits the “Greatest” to pump them up which is utterly ridiculous. Saying he’s below David Toe Haye is probably most stupid thing i’ve ever heard a person say on the internet. For you to pick apart my remarks to Tark tells me your just dick rider. If you wanna beef with me then we can go at it. Don’t jump in for him. That’s girly sht…Have a nice day.Posted June 28, 2014 4:41 pm
I like Tyson much more now anyhow, his standup is pretty damn good. By the way he is a fairly honest dude, tells you the Bros were too big for him, he knew he couldn’t beat LL when he fought him, and is glad he isn’t boxing anymore. I don’t think Holy will be near as successful in his second act. Holmes also admitted that he was in no form fit or shape to fight Tyson and he did it just for the money. Of course King had told him he had no time to prepare, talk about someone that messed up careers. Hate the fact he has Stiverne now.Posted June 28, 2014 4:38 pm
@Laj.., “Holy with that hard head and using it as a battering ram would make it difficult on Haye.”
If you notice… the guys who Holyfield butted were straight ahead sluggers like Tyson.. He never got a head on Lewis.. He never got a head on Toney who was very slick with his head
Haye was extremely hard to trap on the ropes.. and he knows how to deal with heads.. I see him defending better… hitting Holy with overhand rights which was his biggest weakness… jabbing Holy in the stomach, which he gives you.. and using strategic jabs, liver shots, left uppercuts, and great footwork to rack up an easy win.
Holyfield is wide open for liver shots — but James Toney is the only guy who buried him with those shots.. Haye softened up Chisora with a few of those liver digs.
Like I say… Haye was a much better boxer than anyone gives him credit for.Posted June 28, 2014 4:34 pm
Mike went to JAIL! His rep was a serious issue to him and he folded by the back lash & also by not having anything remotely close to Cus to bring him back to good form. Of course he should have come back better – but he DID NOT – can u grasp that Mr. Character? My last long post didnt go thru (why i dont know), it was in regard to “Tyson was easy to hit.” Tark ur NUTS….u see want u WANT to see! Haye had his CAREER DEFINING fight and his “widdle” toe STOPPED ALL ACTION! Ali had a BROKEN JAW in the 2nd rnd and was still MORE effective!Posted June 28, 2014 4:32 pm
Tyson and Liston both had the intimidation, bully persona, basically if they couldn’t intimidate they ran into difficulty.Posted June 28, 2014 4:27 pm
“Tyson was easy to hit”! Wow! Your on DRUGS now!! Haye is a PLODDER with decent power not devistating! Youve actually just described Haye with that lowly evaluation. “Tyson was easy to hit”(???). Are u serious!! I’m gonna utube Hayes HW fights again just so that i dont come off high & bias as u. U must really play boxings Xbox & PSP in the hopes of your wins actually happening! “Tyson was easy to hit” before he went to jail, or at all in his prime? Tark u seem like a stubborn mule – thats good for mules, not u! Haye at #6??? Haye shouldnt even be on the list, he PUNKED out in his defining match against a CLUELESS Wlad and u put him at # 6! Ali had a broken jaw in the 2nd rnd and CONTINUED effectively. Hayes widdle toe stopped ALL ACTION. Awwww poor Hayes widdle toe….Posted June 28, 2014 4:24 pm
Hi slim, I see your being a keyboard warrior again. If you look at my posts you can see they often disagree with Tark. We both think the Bros’ are great, no question about that, but on many other topics we tend to have differences of opinion. So don’t get your panties in too much of a twist. I know you are an Ali lover so tend to exaggerate, so be it.Posted June 28, 2014 4:20 pm
Tyson didn’t lose his spark with 4 years off… He had the same challenge as anyone less who had 4-years off, except he had the advantage of being so young.
Joe Louis took 4 years off for WWII… Vitali took 4 years off to rehab his legs… Foreman took 10 year off… Holmes took about 5 years off all together…and he only came back to get at Foreman, who he always wanted to fght. Ali had over 3 years off.
You can’t be a baby.. If you go to jail you should come back stronger and more determined than ever.. Same way with anyone who has taken a lot of years off and missed some prime years of their career … it goes to your character.
You can’t get those years back so you try harder.Posted June 28, 2014 4:15 pm
Hi Tark, prime Tyson was much faster than Chisora, so I don’t think the comparison is very accurate. People seem to forget that during a very short period of time Tyson actually had a good jab and more than just power. Haye is much more skilled defensively than Mike, he is actually much better in this category than I originally gave him credit for. Tyson’s prime was soooo short that it was difficult to tell if it was just an illusion, unfortunately injuries have also shortened Haye’s prime, hard to tell what he will be like coming off an injury like this, as it is likely to affect his power. What Tyson and Holyfield did bring was the action, we have to at least give them credit for that. Any version of Tyson always had difficulty with tall skilled boxers. I do think that Haye would have had difficulty with Holy though, styles make fights, and Holy with that hard head and using it as a battering ram would make it difficult on Haye.Posted June 28, 2014 4:12 pm
Btw, Tyson DID beat big guys with head & body movement along with well placed body & head punching. Lewis himself confessed publicly (humbly so) that he got a “less than 100%” Tyson! Buster got him while he was concentrating on chicks & clubs, he even had a “jerry curl” fade for the fight, with 3 inept cornermen convincing him to win so that they could hit a strip club!! That last part im just joking about, but it sure looked like it in their desperation! Tyson LOST that KILLA spark a LONG time ago in jail! Any one who got him after that – got a depressed washed up prototype that was “acting” like the spark never left….he knew what to do to draw interest, so that those paychecks would keep coming.Posted June 28, 2014 4:03 pm
Tyson wouldn’t have a chance in HELL against Haye…
It would be similar to Dereck Chisora trying to charge and overpower Haye… Haye is an underrated boxer.
Haye is a very deft mover and doesn’t allow anyone to trap him on the ropes. He’s a highly skilled defender and very, very strong. It’s hard to nail David with a good shot.
Tyson was easy to hit… Flat out!!! If you look at his loses to Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis, he ate punches like nobody’s business.. Haye can haul, and he would have tagged Tyson.
I believe Tyson would run over light hitting Muhammad Ali, similar to the way he did Michael Spinks.. Truth Williams… Tyrell Biggs… Bruce Seldon… and Larry Holmes
Light hitting boxers were Iron Mike’s game.. He loved chasing those guys down.. He would have murdered Jimmy Young as well — just blowing right through Jimmy’s soft punches and punching him mercilessly.
You saw what Tyson did to Alex Stewart — and what Alex Stewart did to George Foreman a year later… LORDY!!! … what a facePosted June 28, 2014 3:55 pm
Goo list by Slater. I would put Lewis below Frazier. I liked Holyfield very much and he was a true warrior. He got screwed at the Olympics and should have gotten the gold, but he showed his class and said nothing. However, I think that he was best at 175.Posted June 28, 2014 3:52 pm
Tark…..So in other words Tyson beats Haye or vise verse?!Posted June 28, 2014 3:50 pm
evander thankyou and good luck to youPosted June 28, 2014 3:49 pm
Tark Holyfield was OLD when he fought Ruiz all those times! I cant even believe he JUST retired….Im sure this surprised everyone like it did me. A young prime Holyfield vs a old one would b far different opposition for the brothers. Now I wonder if Vitali & Tyson has officially retired..lol.Posted June 28, 2014 3:46 pm
Sredomd says.., “Holyfield had 3 fights with Bowe, 2 with Tyson, 2 with Lewis, a fight with Foreman, and only got stopped twice.”
Old man Foreman couldn’t even stop Alex Stewart, Tommy Morrison, or Lou Saverese — 3 guys with pure glass chins… Foreman scored one KO in his last 7 fights… His power was gone when he fought Holy.
Bowe couldn’t even hurt Andrew Golota…another punching bag with a glass chin. Bowe was not a super big puncher and was easy to hit.. That’s why Bowe ducked Lewis. Lewis would have smashed him out in the 1st round and he was deathly afraid of Lewis — giving up his championship belt rather than fighting him.
Tyson punched out little guys…not big, tall, strong guys.
Tyson couldn’t hurt big, tall, strong guys like Tucker, Smith, Douglas, or Lewis. Holyfield pumped himself up to 218 with steroids and weight lifting … He handled Tyson easily.. Holy also KO’d the glass chinned and fat Douglas, who Tyson didn’t have a prayer against.
Holyfield fought out of a shell against Lewis… making no effort to win, just to survive… Holy tried to trade punches with the bigger Bowe in their 1st and 3rd fights. He paid dearly – losing their trilogy. Holy out-jabbed the uncoordinated and dull-witted Bowe in their 2nd fight, his sole win.
Even China-chinned Herbie Hide easily outboxed Bowe for 3 rounds. Bowe only beat Hide by mauling, fouling, and physically overpowering him. Bowe got away with flagrant holding and hitting in that fight. Bowe was a piss poor boxer who absorbed far too many punches – like Ali – which shortened his career.
Holyfield refused to fight the K Bros when he had any prestige left. He was getting knocked down and beaten by unskilled heavyweights like John Ruiz, so the K Bros would have crushed him.Posted June 28, 2014 3:38 pm
Tark I’m on my 3rd cup! I think I “see” Haye beating Ali now! U were right!!!Posted June 28, 2014 3:35 pm
I knew what u meant, and have to agree. But I think prime Tyson would have absolutely destroyed Haye! Eight of his toes wouldve been broken in that fight. And yes i know tyson relied heavily on intimidation, but in his flourishing years under Cus, he was STUPENDOUS! Intimidation ONLY works against weak opposition, and theres nothing wrong with using it to make short work on some nights. All boxers need easy work sometimes, especially in such a grueling sport.Posted June 28, 2014 3:31 pm
I mean Liston would not have intimidate Haye, duh my typing sucks these days.Posted June 28, 2014 3:24 pm
Hi Lionhard, I don’t know if Haye beats Liston, because there weren’t any similar fighters. Liston depended on intimidation and was scared of people that acted crazy. Haye falls in the acting crazy category. Liston would not have intimidated Liston, and if the KOto Ali was legit, that tells me Liston’s jaw never really got tested. So really hard to say, but I don’t rate Liston that high because of the intimidation factor.Posted June 28, 2014 3:23 pm
lag….Perhaps your right, but i see the same plodding format! The plodding is what im zeroing on. U cant hit if u cant get there! And BOTH these fighters are the SAME in this respect. Do u think Haye could have beaten Sonny?Posted June 28, 2014 3:19 pm
By the way, let’s make it clear I rate ali way above Haye because his body of work was much greater, not to say a prime Haye doesn’t beat a prime Ali. I just think you can’t compare eras.Posted June 28, 2014 3:17 pm
Haye was actually much bigger than Ali’s average opponent. They didn’t have Cruiserweight’s back then. Most of Ali’s opponents were small cruiserweights, and much smaller than David Haye who struggled to make 200lb limit. Haye was more the size and build of Holyfield and Norton.Posted June 28, 2014 3:15 pm
Tark I had 2 small glasses, let me know the answer please.Posted June 28, 2014 3:15 pm
Lionhard, Haye was nothing like Lston. Liston had a much better each, but was slow and lethargic in comparison to Haye, not even in the same league in speed.Posted June 28, 2014 3:12 pm
lionhard, your statements are only opinions. You do realize that Foreman fought a fighter with a losing record right before he fought Frazier, that shows a lack of competition, or how about the serious suggestions of ali vs. wilt, this shows again a serious lack of competition, or the worst example, a pathetic 6-0-1 fighter against Ali. None of these would have happened in this era. These are facts, yours opinions. The more I review history the weaker the 60-80’s seem. The 90’s were a much stronger era. Wlad and Vitali fought many champions and much larger stronger men than any era in the past. All fighters should be judged in the era they compete.Posted June 28, 2014 3:11 pm
Tark….The closest to Haye was Sonny Liston. Haye DOES NOT have exceptional footwork, nor did sonny. Haye & Sonny were heavy handed but limited in chasing & landing on elusive opponents or those that “fight tall”. Im being nice by even comparing him to sonny, but their plodding similarities make me do so. The plodding would have made EASY work for Alis accumulative STINGING punches that always kept coming to the face. How would have a blown up cruiserweight that had to pace himself against natural picked heavies connect on Ali enough to win?…..It just couldnt happen. Those FEW fights Haye had at heavy REALLY have u believing hes #6???! REALLY!??? Tark, do u think Haye could have beat a prime Tyson?? Please answer. I’m pulling out my bourbon to see if maybe i can see where your coming from!Posted June 28, 2014 3:07 pm
Sredmond, why the raging hate of the Bro’s? I guess one of them did take your wife from you? Some of your statements like Sanders a C level fighter are just plain dumb. You do realize your idle LL avoided him? He knew he was dangerous. Plus you also know that Wlad had the flu and lost 8 lbs just before he fought Purrity? He still felt he could have beaten him and did badly for 9 rounds. Yes, he lost, and yes he made a dumb decision, none of these fights were in Wlads fighting prime, which was 29 until now.Posted June 28, 2014 3:05 pm
“2003-10-04 : James Toney 217 lbs beat Evander Holyfield 219 lbs by TKO at 1:42 in round 9 of 12.” Body shot. Remember? I know that I do. I can’t forget it.Posted June 28, 2014 3:00 pm
How do you see a fight going between Prime Tyson and Prime Haye?Posted June 28, 2014 2:53 pm
The Klits will have u believe that – because theyve fought lifeless coriander seeds…..have they fought HOFs? They will impress in a time of the DULLEST HWs in history!! And now Wlad is telling his latest opponent, they dont have to fight if he’s required to take stringent testing…..Wlad is definitely a throwback when it comes to refusing test taking, but not a throwback fighter….Tyson & Cheaterfield would have EMBARRASSED & DESTROYED this dude….. even with EQUAL DRUGS distributed btwn em”!!!Posted June 28, 2014 2:46 pm
Sredmond lies.., “TARK is the SAME so called boxing expert who considers David Haye an “Ali equivalent”
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! Ali never saw the day he could punch like Haye.
How can David Haye POSSIBLY be an Ali equivalent unless Haye would lay on the ropes and absorbs unnecessary punishment??? That wasn’t good for Ali’s health or longevity.
Frankly, I’ve never seen David Haye fight that stupidly.
WK got Haye on the ropes for 15 seconds – when he had a broken toe and couldn’t even move that fluidly.
How can David Haye POSSIBLY be an Ali equivalent unless Haye couldn’t punch hard enough to KO weak, tiny, neophyte, non-boxers like Alfredo Evangelista and Rudi Lubbers???
Frankly, Alfred and Rudi would have been 1-round jobs for The Hayemaker.
How can David Haye be an Ali Equivalent if Haye punches with smashing power??? Ask 247lb Dereck Chisora about the impact of Haye’s devastating bombs.
Or do you think Tyson Fury is going to KO Chisora??? LOL
WHO from Ali’s era had the combination of speed, power, skill, and smarts of a David Haye?
LMFAO – thinking of the bums you might put forward for the comparison. Deontay Wilder would make a fair comparison, but nobody from the 1970’s.
The 1970’s didn’t have any athletes.. Joe Frazier’s performance in SuperStars was embarrassing disgraceful to BOXING. If Ali tried Super Stars it would have been worse.
Ali “the greatest” was an ILLUSION. Fans believed it. They showed for Ali-Holmes.Posted June 28, 2014 2:43 pm
Tyson would have lost to both k brothers in ugly fights. Wald would tie him up on the inside and jab him to death from the outside. Today all the hype Tyson had, would be dull with the presence if the K- brothers.Posted June 28, 2014 2:34 pm
David ‘Toe job to No job’ Haye is making a ring comeback very soon. My trustworthy sources have been telling me he was rehabbing his arm at the 3rd Square Gym back in November and December last year. He’s made Stiverene his top target. I think Mr. Fury, if he gets by Chisora could well be waiting outside his gaff on a dark night to collect his money with menaces from Toe job. Seriously, Haye will be called a ducker if he doesn’t face Fury.Posted June 28, 2014 2:31 pm
A Tyson under Cus & Rooney would have given the Klits all they could handle!! But if Tyson had to rely on those outside forces for championship maintenance, he maybe needed to lose the way that he has. Nevertheless a PRIME Tyson would have DESTROYED Wlad, and won on points against Vitali! Vitali is Huge & powerful, but never had a vast array of punches! Wlad under pressure becomes delusional like Tark, finding it hard to think! If Sam Peter knew how to shuffle in like a young tyson, Wlad woulda been toast!! E. Stewart kept his head together for that fiasco….Props to Emmanuel!!Posted June 28, 2014 2:29 pm
The k-bros have taken care of business and monopolized the sport, they’ll rank very high on most ATG heavyweight lists, when all is said and donePosted June 28, 2014 2:24 pm
I guess Tark has his reasons for his list, but I’m sure he won’t have many in agreement with him. Wow…Posted June 28, 2014 2:14 pm
Holy fought till he was 100 years old and STILL got stopped fewer times than Wladimir… And this is a guy who had 3 fights with Bowe, 2 with Tyson, 2 with Lewis, a fight with Foreman… Pretty sure that lowly fighters like Purrity and Sanders would not have seen him sprawled on the canvas or getting saved by a merciful ref..Posted June 28, 2014 2:14 pm
SREDMOND I see why you got all defensive the other day when some dude accused said Amercan fighters being roid heads. Your a Holyfield sack rider as well as a Roy Jones and James Toney one.Posted June 28, 2014 2:12 pm
Turb0-Hamster demand clean blood……couldnt agree more!!! Those fighters that used NO DRUGS, that did GOOD for themselves & for the fans are the ones to be heralded!!
On another note: Tark is on some serious good tastin’ bourbon…..right about now, he’s in his own delusional world! Cautiously guided “Toe” Haye, who was TOTALLY NULLIFIED against a STIFF IMMOBILE Wlad is supposed to be a top ten heavyweight!?? ABOVE WHO!?? Imagine if Wlad new how to aggressively pursue & dissect opponents by cuttin off the ring; Haye would have looked like an actual TOE standing out there, like a base-weighted inflated bean punching bag – popped! But Wlad had no answers against a supposedly WOUNDED toe-foe, and Haye had the NEWEST of Top Ten EXCUSES, cuz he simply couldnt land his patented haymakers against a guy that was taught to (wisely so) “fight tall”! Haye was CLUELESS on how to REACH Wlad!!! 7,8,9,10 on your list wouldv DESTROYED Haye….Tark your hittin’ that bourbon HARD!! What brand is it that u drink, i’d like to know so I can avoid it! Hopefully its not from Tennessee. U need to stick to 1 or 2 budweisers – thats it!!Posted June 28, 2014 2:12 pm
Tark doesn’t have Tyson in the top 10, but has Haye number 6.
How many shots would it take for prime Tyson to ko Haye? 6 or less?
Tark is entitled to his opinions.
But, just, wow…Posted June 28, 2014 2:11 pm
EXCUSES , EXCUSES , EXCUSES REDMOND !!!!!!!Posted June 28, 2014 2:09 pm
An old WASHED up fighter is gonna be viewed in context… Klit fans making EXCUSES for prime age losses for Wlad via TKO is a JOKE… Hoys losses 40 and over were a CLASSIC example of a guy fighting well past his best, Roy Jones will likely be stopped again and I guess that’s indicative of who he really is as a fighter? Vitali QUITTING in his prime and failing to defeat an Old Lewis are classic examples of the Klits failures.. Tark and other losers will try to peddle Ali’s destruction at the hands of Holmes after a 2 year layoff as proof of Muhammeds weakness.. Meanwhile this same BUM has excuses for Martinez and Canelo.. But old early stage Parkinson’s Ali was in top form facing Larry? The Holy that lost to Byrd, Toney and Donald was an OLD Man… He is a guarantees FIRST Ballot HOFer and ATG…the Klits NEVER fought the schedule Evander did substituting unaccomplished current fighters and 90’s retreads “Mercer, Briggs” for the monsters Holy had to contend with..Posted June 28, 2014 2:07 pm
anyhow these posts have gotten away from the original subject Holyfield. He was great, but flawed, as are all the greats. There is no perfect fighter. He did what he could with what he had and will be in every experts top 20. Really there aren’t that many HVWT’s that have been at the top for long periods of time. I rate fighters on all aspects, that is why Tyson, Frazier, Liston drop, and others like Wlad, Louis, Holmes, Ali, are at the top of my lists. Others have different criteria. Good luck in retirement Holy, feel bad for him in many ways, financially he is not in good shape happens to too many fighters. would be good to have an article on this subject.Posted June 28, 2014 1:45 pm
SLIM, you showed quite a bit of ignorance in your posts also. For instance you don’t seem to know that Haye did KO Chisora? But the worst, the absolute worst of all time is when you put Spinks in a list of great fighters Ali fought. Spinks in any other era would never carck the top 100. Purrity would have KO’d him. Hell ever fighter Wlad has fought for the last 15 years would KO Spinks. So that level of ignorance is unforgivable.Posted June 28, 2014 1:39 pm
Tark will put ANYBODY in the HOF if it somehow helps the Klits case… This is the SAME so called boxing expert who considers David Haye an “Ali equivalent” an EXTREME minority view not held by ANY boxing experts or writers… The mans a BONAFIDE loonPosted June 28, 2014 1:39 pm
Wlad is a Top 5 HW. 1-1 with Brewster. Beat the crap out of him twice though and Brewster had to take The Beating of a Lifetime in the first fight, knocked down hard, lost every round. I think even Kali Meehan really beat Lamon Brewster. At least Max Schmeling legitimately beat the crap out of Joe Louis in their first one! Joe kissed plenty of canvas that night. Could have sworn I saw Axel Schulz beat George Foreman too.Posted June 28, 2014 1:35 pm
In fact I was of the opinion that Haye was so negative in the Valuev fight that I actually scored the fight to Valuev on the night.Posted June 28, 2014 1:32 pm
With regards to Haye, it pains me to say it as I am no fan, but he is a stunning boxer and athlete. He is just too small at heavy weight. Skill wise he beats the K brothers hands down. But where Haye really fails is he does not have the heart for a fight with the big men. I cant fault his tactics in trying to stay away from Vlad in their fight. But by round 8 or 9 it was obvious that Vlad was so far ahead that Haye needed a KO. Haye was unwilling to risk getting knocked out by Vlad though and was unwilling to stand in range and trade with the bigger fighter. Haye had dynamite in those fists and Vlad hass been down a lot in his career but Haye still was not willing to stand and trade. For me that showed a massive lack of heart. So for me Haye definately has the skills and could have been one of the best ever, but he didnt have the heart of a true heavy weight great.Posted June 28, 2014 1:29 pm
The majority of Tyson’s near 20 year career was a period of decline. We saw a fierce combo puncher who had superb head movement from 85-89 and became the youngest heavyweight champ ever. After Rooney was fired he lost that focus and was not so spectacular. He overwhelmed a past prime but still game Holmes who had enough in the tank to beat ray mercer like he stole something years later. It seems to me that fighters like Tyson don’t have long shelf lives. When you rely so much on speed and relentless pressure as opposed to reach/controlling range through an excellent jab like the klitschkos and Lewis, you have a shorter peak.Posted June 28, 2014 1:25 pm
The Haymaker is an excellent boxer.
Fight fans and boxing writers who don’t really know what they’re looking at in the ring have to rely on resume, records, and rankings to make sense of the sport.
Fight fans and boxing scribes who do know what they’re looking at can make assessments from performances.
Posted June 23, 2014 5:00 pmPosted June 28, 2014 1:07 pm
Didn’t brewster KO one of the Klit brothers? icould be wrong but I thought he did.Posted June 28, 2014 12:58 pm
The win against Chisora was his best accomplishment I agree, but Chisora is nothing special. He has 4 loses and lost to Tyson Fury who is bum.Posted June 28, 2014 12:53 pm
Tark you should’ve left Chris Arreola off your list. He is straight bum bad example.Posted June 28, 2014 12:34 pm
@Demon…The Klits are fresher fighters fool. They haven’t fought anybody, they will be champs until their 60. With the Heavyweight competition out there today. Have nice day.Posted June 28, 2014 12:17 pm
After rating David toe Haye over Ali, Tark quit on the stool long time ago.lolPosted June 28, 2014 12:12 pm
slim by late KO.Posted June 28, 2014 12:08 pm
@Tark…Byrd, Sanders, Brewster, Gomez, Austin, and Arreola gets his ass kicked every other week..lol, Johnson, Brock, Peter, Shannon Briggs seriously…None of these bums are on anybody’s list. None will be in the HOF either. Not EVER….Have a nice day.Posted June 28, 2014 12:04 pm
@Piechucker…NO Tark has not redeemed sht. He showed absolute ignorance when he rated David “TOE” Haye #6 and Muhammed Ali #10. There is no coming back fom that. Have a nice dayPosted June 28, 2014 11:52 am
haye better than ali,whats next khan better then duran.Posted June 28, 2014 11:24 am
david toe haye. and to think this used to be a real boxing forum.Posted June 28, 2014 11:17 am
Holyfield would have beaten FrazierPosted June 28, 2014 11:12 am
Liston was awesome. I’m convinced the mob/muslim brothers had something to do with his losses to Ali and with his death.Posted June 28, 2014 10:57 am
@Drunk Pom Yeah maybe, all these discussions are good…but they also could have lost to most of them too! Still haven’t seen your list. :)Posted June 28, 2014 10:21 am
@xaver: Tyson Dempsey Liston at their best would beat all you’re list except Ali , HolmesPosted June 28, 2014 10:08 am
Some boxing fans cannot put aside their disgust with the man enough to fairly assess the boxer.Posted June 28, 2014 10:08 am
I don’t agree with Tark picking Haye at 6, but not because of his abilities being unworthy of consideration. His accomplishments at heavyweight don’t justify atg status in my opinion at this stage. But the guy has tremendous power and speed. He’s a lethal puncher with a cracking left hook, uppercut, and of course the right hand . Defensively, he displays reflexes that are not prime Roy jones level, but outstanding. He’s not easy to hit squarely, Wlad couldn’t find him often enough with that right hand to close the show.Posted June 28, 2014 10:04 am
Brazilian Boxing Fan
Holyfield was a great fighter.Posted June 28, 2014 9:53 am
@xaver; Dempsey would never meet Johnson ? What the f””” are you on about, what about you’re list: Louis v foreman , when did they f”””” meetPosted June 28, 2014 9:52 am
Drunk Pom, you sound drunk alright. Drink milk next time! Dempsey wouldn’t have met Jack Johnson, lol! Now put YOUR list up, fella.Posted June 28, 2014 9:44 am
I would rank him as one of the greatest Cruiserweights. But some of the lighter famous heavyweights could have been considered in that weight class so I would rank Marciano ahead of Evander at “mythical” cruiserweight. Joe Louis as well if you consider the limit as up to 200lbs. Quarry, Dempsey, Charles too are in the same league as Evander as mythical cruisers. BUT you can be sure Evander would have given any of those guys a GREAT battle even on their best day.Posted June 28, 2014 9:01 am
@tark: what a waist of time that was, all those fighters lucky to make top 20 in any decade except maybe: 1890-1900 or 1930-1940Posted June 28, 2014 8:54 am
TURBO HAMSTER says,
Turbo, that was my post agreeing with you re deleting fighter’s records if they are convicted of PEDS cheating.Posted June 28, 2014 8:50 am
@xaver: how the f””” did Johnson make you’re list, Dempsey would kill him: have you seen Johnson on DVDPosted June 28, 2014 8:47 am
Foreman was not a good boxer. Not a top 5 guy.
and TARK redeems himself with an excellent post. onya champPosted June 28, 2014 8:38 am
Holyfield did fade badly, as the pitiful showings against Chris Byrd and Larry Donald demonstrated. But after his shoulder operation he experienced a resurgence. He had a magnificent showing against the big Lou Savarese, and came close to winning the heavyweight title in two consecutive fights, the first against the underrated Sultan Ibragimov in arguably the latter’s finest performance, and against Nikolai Valuev, in which most observers felt he deserved the decision. After that he faded for good.Posted June 28, 2014 8:36 am
burst a buble
Not as great as the next WBA Heavyweight champions. Ruslan ChangevPosted June 28, 2014 8:09 am
Slim says.. “The Klitschkos haven’t fought anybody in the last 10yrs”
Alexander Povetkin was an undefeated, 26-0, Olympic Gold Medal winner and a Heavyweight Champion… who had never been knocked down amateur or pro. Wladimir floored him 4 times and won every round
David Haye was an Olympian, 2 division World Champion and Heayweight Champion at 25-1.. His only previous loss was when he had 10 fights against a veteran with 35 fights. He scorched Chisora who nobody else has been able to drop or hurt
Tomaz Adamek was a 2-Division World Champion and 44-1 Nobody else has been able to stop him
Juan Carlos Gomez was another World Champion and 44-1
Sam Peter was undefeated 24-0 for Wladimir and 30-1, and Heavyweight Champion for Vitali
Mariusz Wach was 27-0 with a brutal KO over Kevin McBride who stopped Mike Tyson
Danny Williams also stopped Mike Tyson and was brutally stopped by Vitali
Lamon Brewster was a Heavyweight Champion
Corrie Sander was a Heavyweight Champion and 39-2
Chris Bryd was a Heavyweight Champion who beat David Tua, Evander Holyfield, and Ross Puritty.
Shannon Briggs was a 2-time Heavyweight Champion who was 2 years younger than Vitali
Herbie Hide was a 31-1 Heavyweight Champion who savaged Michael Bentt… who KO’d Tommy Morrison… who beat George Foreman… Vitali won the Heavyweight Title by crushing Hide in 2 rounds, KOing him with a jab
Sultan Ibragimov was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion who beat Shannon Briggs with ease
Ray Austin was 6’6″ X 245 and drew with Sutan Ibragimov.
Tony Tompson was a 6’6″ X 247 southpaw and 31-1.
Ruslan Chagaev was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion
Calvin Brock was undefeated at 27-0 and number one contender
Larry Donald beat Holyfield with ease. His only KO loss in 50 fights was to Vitali
Ed Mahone was undefeated in 23 fights.
Timo Hoffman was 22-0 and 6’8” X 253
Vaughn Bean was never stopped by anyone but Vitali Klitschko in 51 fights
Kirk Johnson had one defeat in 36 fights, a DQ loss
Manuel Charr was undefeated number one contender at 21-0. Vitali stopped him at age 41
Chris Arreola was undefeated number one contender at 27-0. Vitali stopped him at 38
Odlanier Solis was an undefeated Olympic Gold Medal Winner. Vitali stopped him at 40
Kevin Johnson was undefeated in 23 fights and number one contender
They fought the best Heavyweights on Earth. They couldn’t go to Mars to fight anyonePosted June 28, 2014 8:07 am
anonymous. bert sure did have a laugh with these big lumps of today.Posted June 28, 2014 7:42 am
@anonoous; if you bag Holyfield for drugs, what about the 90% off boxers now who use peds. You f”””” witPosted June 28, 2014 7:33 am
ECAT is another backwood idiot like tark talking about a bum like david toe haye.Posted June 28, 2014 7:23 am
its a good job we only have 26 letters in the alphabet,otherwise we would have more of these hw clowns today. BERT SUGAR 2006.Posted June 28, 2014 7:09 am
TARK has the beat.Posted June 28, 2014 6:34 am
I think we should give TARK the benefit of the doubt on the absolute garbage he is speaking today. he is obviously drunk and if not just having an off day. tark knows a fair bit about boxing, which makes all his drivel today quite bemusingPosted June 28, 2014 6:18 am
TURBO HAMSTER says,
When Larry Obalumiwo cheated the British board expunged his entire record – deleted every single win. THAT is what should happen to Holyfield if only Americans were in any way serious about sport being fair.
I AGREE WITH you TURBO re deleting all cheat’s professional or amateur records if they are found guilty of PEDS or glove tampering.
Apparently the WBA, WBC and WBO have been meeting this week trying to thrash out how to simplify and unify some of the rules of boxing…
If they ban and delete all records of all future convicted cheats and get rid of all the proliferation of titles and bring in a ratings and a transparent chart of world title referees and judges, allowing perhaps a journo or two, representatives of the fighters and perhaps a fan or 2 into all future disciplinaries for officials, it will be a good outcome for the meeting.Posted June 28, 2014 6:04 am
Lewis is older than Tyson so Mike has no excuse… He’s the only Heavyweight champ who got KO’d be 3 OLDER heavyweight champs.
“Buster got him in his prime” … WTF? You don’t have an excuse for that one???Posted June 28, 2014 5:20 am
Nobody in the last 20yrs lol.Posted June 28, 2014 5:01 am
Like I keep telling you fool, they haven’t fought anybody in the last 10yrs Tarkie…Lol!!!!Posted June 28, 2014 4:50 am
Because by the time Lennox fought Mike he was washed up Tarkie. For some reason don’t recognize when a fighter past his time unless it fits your argument. Different athletes peak and fade at different times anybody who anything about sports knows that. Buster got him in his prime but not Lennox…have a nice day.Posted June 28, 2014 4:48 am
If Wladimir doesn’t have a chin — how come he was never knocked out with one shot like Lewis and Tyson were???
Both were goners from a single shot — twice each.
Wladimir always got up, but he hasn’t been down in 10 years.Posted June 28, 2014 4:47 am
Slim.., Lewis was knocked out by Hasim Rahman and Ollie McCall… How on Earth did he take Mike Tyson’s punches and knock Mike FLAT!!!
After all… He’s OLDER than Mike.Posted June 28, 2014 4:42 am
Wlad doesn’t have a chin Tark WTF are you talking about? LolPosted June 28, 2014 4:41 am
Wlad doesn’t have a chin what are you talking about Tark? Lol!!!!!!!!!!Posted June 28, 2014 4:40 am
You saw how easily Chris Byrd was able to outbox slow guys like Tua… Puritty… Holyfield… McCall… Thunder… Oquendo… Golota… and Billups… Chris was too fast and slick for those guys
But Wladimir had enough speed to box rings around Byrd as early as 2000, when Byrd was only 29.
That was well before Wladimir got with Steward and he still had a ton of technical issues to work on… However Byrd couldn’t punch and all Wladimir had to do was out-speed him and be a better athlete.Posted June 28, 2014 4:38 am
But seriously where do you get your weed? LolPosted June 28, 2014 4:38 am
@Tark…Well your theory is thrown again Tarkie. Because If Wlad could be TKO’d by Lamont Brewster and Corrie Sanders how on god green earth could “IRON” Mike Tyson be unable to knock out the sisters??!Posted June 28, 2014 4:36 am
Yo…, If you knew anything about boxing you’d know that Larry Holmes was made to order for Tyson.. a boxer who couldn’t punch very hard.. Tyson charged right through those light punches.
Truth Williams… Tyrell Briggs… Michael Spinks… Pinklon Thomas… Larry Holmes… Tony Tubbs… Bruce Seldon… Alex Stewart…
Mike just ran over them…they had nothing to keep him off with… Mike couldn’t do that to 6’4″ X 232 Buster Douglas who could box AND punch… 6’2″ X 218 Evander Holyfield who could box AND punch… and 6’5″ X 255 Lennox Lewis who could box AND punch.
Wladimir is faster than any of those guys and can box and punch much better… and his chin is a lot better than Lewis’s or Buster Douglas’s. He’s never been stretched and they were.
Tyson was stopped 5 times… He couldn’t handle big, fast, hard punching, skilled boxers … and Wladimir is one.Posted June 28, 2014 4:16 am
Bout time Evander retired before he got brain damaged. A good heavyweight champ, not the best, but a good one for a lot years there. Remember he had a saint like like reputation and was real popular during that time he fought Mike. Was anyone around then to remember that? This place seems like teenagers and a few old school dudes.Posted June 28, 2014 1:40 am
Tark, you know Bowe was nowhere near the fighter he was in his prime when he fought Golota.
It was lazy Bowe vs Prime Golota. And Bowe still won both fights. Remember?
The Mike Tyson that fought Larry Holmes either ko’s Wlad early, or TKO’s him late.
The Tyson that Lewis beat was old, slow, no head movement, and no stamina.
How good is Valuev anyway Tark?
A dude who couldn’t beat a 50 year old Holyfield, but the highest ranked heavy Haye could ever beat…
Or do you base Haye’s greatness on beating Chisora, a cat that got whipped by Fury as well?Posted June 28, 2014 1:38 am
Tark is a Vlad & Wladimir groupie, he’s delusional, he’s in an absolute trance, give him time to snap out of it. Sadly he’ll go back in his trance, because he LOVES & ADORES how they look when they fight! He thinks thats how the “best” should “look” – while fighting! The “brothers” boxing style seem to him to be the quintessential form in the realm of boxing. He’s come to believe this thru the many Boxing Basics “books” hes read! He’s unable to think straight or have it any other way; please bear thru the groupyness. He really believes these guys can beat ANY heavyweight that EVER existed……he’ll gladly admit it if he has enough bourbon in him..Posted June 28, 2014 1:29 am
Yo…, Seems to me Frazier was a little small.. 6’3″ X 217 Foreman couldn’t miss the little guy with a punch.
Seemed to me that Bowe was the easiest guy in the world to punch right in the face… and that Bowe won his trilogy with Holyfield anyway… Even clumsy, inept plodder Andrew Golota punched Bowe all over the place.
And let’s see… … Buster “42:1 underdog” Douglas dominating little Mike Tyson and boxed his ears off.
And seems to me Mike Tyson was younger than Lewis — and was outpunched about 5 to 1. Mike looked like a midget against the 250lb Lewis of course … Tyson also looked like a midget against Danny Williams and Kevin McBride — who both stopped Mikey.
Funny, but Vitali Klitschko KO’d Williams as easy as pie.Posted June 28, 2014 1:21 am
Tark…Is obviously smoking good weed laced with PCP if he has David “TOE” Haye at #6 and Muhammed Ali at #10. That’s probably the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard…Posted June 28, 2014 1:12 am
Tark has Haye over both Ali and Holyfield.
Evidently, beating Sugarfoot Valuev means more than beating Bowe, Frazier, and Tyson.Posted June 28, 2014 12:59 am
@Tark…Dude your so stupid you don’t even realize your losing creditiblty with this nonsense…When you fight real competition your jaw can get broke, your nose can be broke, you can be dropped numerous times. It’s boxing idiot, those are signs of fighting real competition. But when your not you stay pretty and collect a check. Selling fights like David “TOE” Haye. Ali fought real competition win or loss…Liston, Patterson, Frazier 3 times, Norton 3 times, a young “Geoege Foreman”, Lyle, Shavers, Spinks, a young “Larry Holmes. Klits record can’t match that your nuts. Lol!!!!Posted June 28, 2014 12:51 am
Foreman was such a good boxer he ate every jab Jimmy Young threw… Than got decked by a feather-light right.
If you don’t think Wladimir has a faster, harder and more deceptive jab than the 19-5 Jimmy Young you’re NUTS!!!Posted June 28, 2014 12:43 am
Vlad got TKO’d by partime painter..LolPosted June 28, 2014 12:38 am
So was/is Pacroid and your point…Posted June 28, 2014 12:36 am
Yo.., You’re KIDDING!!! … Ali got punched to pieces and got his jaw broken by Ken Norton — a guy with a China chin and a blooping dilivery on his punches.. A guy who ran into KO punches.
Ali was 31… Does that disqualify the fight??? Wladimir hasn’t been beaten in over 10 years.. Ali didn’t go 10 years as World Champion without getting beaten.. And his winning and KO ratios aren’t nearly as good as Wladimir’s.
And who did Ali beat so badly who had the boxing ability of David Haye… Chris Byrd… Eddie Chambers… Alexander Povetkin… Tony Thompson… and Jameel McCline.
Those guys won a grand total of 3 rounds.
Don’t give me the crap about Wladimir’s 3 losses… He hasn’t been beaten in over 10 years… Rocky Marciano’s entire professional career lasted only 8 years.Posted June 28, 2014 12:34 am
Holyfield was one of my faves in the ’90s behind only Ike Ibeabucchi and Riddick Bowe but once it came out he was a roids rager I packed it in. One thing about his Tyson wins — even though he was juiced so was Mike so they cancel each other out. He’d have beaten Mike regardless anyhow, that’s why Mike ducked him until it looked like Holy was shot. Mike’s legal defense for that rape case included a claim he was mentally deranged due to a toxic combination of steroids and liquor. I kid you not. It’s in the transcripts for anyone who wants to read it. Mike was a juicehead all along so his career is marred as well.Posted June 28, 2014 12:33 am
“Evander Holyfield or Evan Fields WAS a cheat. More than likely his entire career, but certainly there were big questions being asked in 1994 after Moorer, and his receipt of multiple packages of testosterone, HGH, his “mysterious” PED use related heart issue that disappeared with prayer etc.” – Correct. Thanks for pointing that out so I didn’t have to.Posted June 28, 2014 12:27 am
First off, I don’t think this is the real Tark posting.
Tark just last week said Pulev had a chance to beat Wlad, but he ranks Lewis below Wlad.
So, evidently he thinks Pulev is better than Lewis??
This doesn’t feel right.
I think Tark is trolling with the Klitschko love.
I doubt he would bet cash money on Wlad ever beating a prime Lewis or Ali.
Evander would put. the same pressure he put on Bowe. Can anyone see Wlad taking the shots Bowe did and firing back?
Wlad is a great champ career wise, but head to head, not so much.
Who is the best fighter he beat?
Prime Sam Peter.
Peter was nowhere near a Tyson, Holy, Tua, Ibeabuchi, or even Prime Mercer.
I really don’t see Wlad beating the Foreman who fought Frazier either.
Pulev will be the most talented big man to face Wlad.Posted June 27, 2014 11:51 pm
about f’n time.Posted June 27, 2014 11:32 pm
1. Joe Louis
Well done evander at choosing retirement now. I wouldn’t of liked to see him carry on any more. During the late 80s and 90s we was a fine boxing specimen. He had power, agility and the rare natural ability of tenacity. I wish him well in retirement. God bless you, may you be forever immortalised in the IBHOF.Posted June 27, 2014 11:21 pm
1. Lewis 2. Ali 3. Holmes 4. Johnson 5. V klitschko 6. Foreman 7. Louis 8.Holyfield 9. W klitschko 10. TysonPosted June 27, 2014 11:12 pm
Been a fan of boxing for over 30 years.The last full HW fight I watched was Lewis vs Tyson but I still think I can do a lil better than Tark:
1. Muhammed Ali
This is just my opinion based on skill, heart, competition. K Sisters get no love for fighting Tomato cans for over aPosted June 27, 2014 11:00 pm
This stupid idiot moron Tark has Muhammed Ali at 10 and David toe Haye at 6…This use to be a respectable boxing forum sad.Posted June 27, 2014 10:57 pm
D- your not the only person who goes by D stop actin like lil btch.Posted June 27, 2014 10:52 pm
I like Holyfield since he reunited with Tyson :)Posted June 27, 2014 10:51 pm
Tark – Klit Sisters @ no.1 & 2 with David “The Toe” Haye @ 6. Give it a rest old fella. Tis time you be put to sleep.LMFAO!!!!Posted June 27, 2014 10:45 pm
Tark…quit making excuses for that bum, did you see his x-rays?? I’ll answer for you, No you did not! So quit acting like you know everything…hes a BUM. And your the blithering idiot who’s buying those excuses. Have a nice day.Posted June 27, 2014 10:25 pm
Slim.., Haye had a broken toe.. He was making an excuse.. But he knew he could have boxed better if he could have trained up to the day of the fight.
He couldn’t move well or push off with real power..
It was the broken toe.. It would have been tough to get a postponement out of Wladimir because 2 years earlier he was matched with Wladimir and suffered a back injury … He wanted a postponement that time and Wladimir refused to give him a postponement.
Wladimir had 2 torn ab muscle injuries in a row.. Chisora was the victim.. Wladimir eventually pulled out of their matchup entirely after he suffered the 2nd injury.Posted June 27, 2014 9:56 pm
phony D making posts under my name belowPosted June 27, 2014 9:47 pm
Holyfield should have retired 15 years ago. A record of 26-10-2 as a heavyweight is not very impressive.Posted June 27, 2014 9:45 pm
SMH… SLIM, SREDMOND and Anonymous are hopeless cases… time wasters…Posted June 27, 2014 9:34 pm
Tark is getting KO’d left and right, lolPosted June 27, 2014 9:20 pm
slim Tark has turned into a troller these days that’s why..Posted June 27, 2014 9:13 pm
David toe Haye was junk you guys’Posted June 27, 2014 9:11 pm
Tark says David “TOE” Haye is LARGELY underrated…Dude why do you continue to play the game “foot in mouth”???? He took his shoe off in the middle of the ring after the fight, to show the “WORLD” his hurt “TOE”…are you serious. He’s “BUM” and you know it! The only reason your propping him up is because he was the “TOUGHEST” opponent for the Klit sisters…Lol!Posted June 27, 2014 9:08 pm
Vitali had messed up legs from smashing them up as a kickboxer.. He had to quit kickboxing and they caused him a lot of trouble as a boxer … Haye has a lot of injuries as well.. These things happen.
Nowadays there are doctors out there who can fix just about anything… so we haven’t seen the last of David Haye.Posted June 27, 2014 9:06 pm
david Haye vs Gene Tunney if Haye could get over” the Fighting Marine” i’d put him in the top ten, maybe?Posted June 27, 2014 9:04 pm
Turb0-Hamster demand clean blood
Anyone defending him is just as bad as a Lance Armstrong apologist. They have no moral fibre and are simple not acceptable human beings. They should be harvested for organs, and their family should be made to sit in the Hall of Shame for having produced such filth.Posted June 27, 2014 8:59 pm
Also i think a prime fit motivated Lennox Lewis beats any one on there day(bar two that K.Od him on those days), sheer size power, skill, smarts and jab keep him at #1Posted June 27, 2014 8:58 pm
Turb0-Hamster demand clean blood
Evander Holyfield or Evan Fields WAS a cheat. More than likely his entire career, but certainly there were big questions being asked in 1994 after Moorer, and his receipt of multiple packages of testosterone, HGH, his “mysterious” PED use related heart issue that disappeared with prayer etc.
His career means nothing because none of it can be trusted. He is not an honourable guy – hence the 456 kids by 243 different mothers while professing to be a good CHristian.
You CANNOT rank in him the ATG lists or HOF without making a mockery of them. WHo knows how many peoples career trajectorys he has destroyed by drug cheating against them?
He really is just the kind of lowlife scumsucking pig that boxing should kick out permanently.
When Larry Obalumiwo cheated the British board expunged his entire record – deleted every single win. THAT is what should happen to Holyfield if only Americans were in any way serious about sport being fair.
SO yeah get lost Holyfield you bald cheating potato-head, and don`t let the door hit you fat r01ded up @rse on the way out.Posted June 27, 2014 8:56 pm
I use to like your threads, but now your just trolling…Posted June 27, 2014 8:45 pm
I had Floyd only an 8 to 5 favorite at one point… That meant if Canelo had a perfect camp and fought a perfect fight he might have had a chance to win… He had a lousy camp… pathetic sparring partners… which I stated before the fight.
Then he came to the weigh-in parched and ready to fall over dead from dehydration. Even Andre Ward pointed that out..
Andre Ward said, “Canelo looks bad. He looks weak, like he can barely stand up.. There he is sitting down.. How often do you see that at a weigh-in?”
One particularly blind judge certainly thought Floyd didn’t win.Posted June 27, 2014 8:44 pm
Oh im sorry Tark, Mr. Business man/Investor. He didn’t win the HEAVY WEIGHT BELT at 21. He won it at 22…My bad. Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Posted June 27, 2014 8:40 pm
ecat, holyfield would destroy david toe haye, he would crush him like a grape, holyfield was 5 times the boxer haye will ever be!!!!!Posted June 27, 2014 8:39 pm
Does any one here, think, that as much as we all know/study/analyze/breakdown fighters and compare them to others and or hypothesize, about hypothetical bouts, is good banter yes, BUT until the two actually squared off, you really have know idea of the outcome?? styles make fights, yes, but its the realm of the unknown.Posted June 27, 2014 8:38 pm
The oracle of Delphi
Not sure I said it, steroid user!!!! His neck muscles, physique and strength were unnatural!Posted June 27, 2014 8:36 pm
wladdy and herman dont even make top 20. end of.Posted June 27, 2014 8:36 pm
Sad days on ESB, Tark use to be respected on here now he’s just trolling….Posted June 27, 2014 8:35 pm
The oracle of Delphi
Steroid user….that’s how he beat Tyson, with abusing steroids….he cheated!Posted June 27, 2014 8:35 pm
SLIM says.., “@Tark…he was washed up when he lost to Leon Spinks. He won the “Heavy Weight belt” at 21yrs old.”
Who’s fault was it that Ali was washed up at 36??? And he DIDN’T win the title when he was 21, you LIAR!!!
Wladimir Klitschko is 38… He’s not washed up because he can defend himself a lot better than Ali could when Ali was younger.
Floyd Mayweather is 37… He takes care of business and maintains his defense — so a 6-0-1 unranked guy won’t come along and beat him up.Posted June 27, 2014 8:35 pm
Sredmond says.., “Tark, YOU had Canelo beating Floyr knowing the terms of the bout.”
You know that’s a damned lie… I had Floyd beating Canelo by decision at least 100 times and never in my life picked Canelo to win… I always said Floyd should be favored to win by decision and never changed for a second…
YOU said Floyd was going to “Sred… Smoke… Paint… and KO Canelo” … Those were the words you used…
That was NEVER going to happen you IDIOT!!!
My prediction was a lot closer than yours… And I also said BEFORE the fight that Canelo ruined any chance he had by coming into the weigh-in weight drained.Posted June 27, 2014 8:29 pm
Wlads 3 losses to a putrid level of comp are worse than Holy losses to fighters like Moorer, Lewis, Bowe and Ruiz his late losses were those of a WAY past it fighter… And Wlad always got stopped when he lost in his prime.. A fighter like Sanders had him curled up on the canvasPosted June 27, 2014 8:26 pm
tark is to boxing,is what 50 cent is to soul music.Posted June 27, 2014 8:25 pm
Tark you lying piece sht! lolPosted June 27, 2014 8:24 pm
Using smelly off bait, will still get bites ?Posted June 27, 2014 8:23 pm
How can Ali be in the top 5 when he lost to Leon Spinks, who was 6-0-1… What other top heavyweight ever lost to Spinks???
How many guys got their jaw busted by an inept swinger like Ken Norton???
How many heavyweight champs got floored hard and almost KO’d by a 185 pound hooker like Henry Cooper???
How many got there ass beaten by a 205 pound walk in hooker who was wide open??? and had blubber hanging over his waist band???
To me that means a lot of guys rank above Ali… but he’s still top 15.Posted June 27, 2014 8:22 pm
Never mind the so called record books, the history books will never forget the accomplishments of
Lol! Slim Tark may stretch the truth a bit but he has some boxing knowledge.Posted June 27, 2014 8:20 pm
Ok Tark…Aka Professional trainer, Aka professional boxer, Aka Business Man, AKa Investor, Aka Professional LIAR. Have a nice day…Posted June 27, 2014 8:17 pm
@laj…I understand he lost to some of those fighters. But my point was he was fighting tougher competition then the Klits. rather he won not. You don’t win all the time fighting the “TOUGHEST” competition…Posted June 27, 2014 8:14 pm
Slim.., As long as you’re on planet Earth even Sredmond isn’t the dumbest person on Earth.
When you move to Mars he’ll take over.Posted June 27, 2014 8:13 pm
the klit sisters better than ali. very poor comedy.Posted June 27, 2014 8:13 pm
HofPosted June 27, 2014 8:11 pm
How fighter for surePosted June 27, 2014 8:11 pm
Sredmond calls me a fool when he picked Gary Russell to dust Vasyl Lomachenko??? Peterson to beat Matthysee??? Marquez to KO Bradley??? Mayweather to KO Canelo???
NONE of those things had a prayer of happening.
That’s what you call a low level Boxing IQ…
Sremond, you have no IDEA where heavyweights of history should be rated because you have no idea how good anyone is.Posted June 27, 2014 8:09 pm
slim. bang on my son.Posted June 27, 2014 8:09 pm
SLIM we know you love Ali, but this is about Holyfield. If you want to talk about how he would do against AQli it makes sense.Posted June 27, 2014 8:05 pm
SLIm, Holy’s resume would be better if he beat all those people you listed, but he lost to many of them.Posted June 27, 2014 8:04 pm
If either one of the Klits were 25 in their complete “PRIME OF THEIR CAREER” and MUhammed ALI was 25 in his “PRIME OF HIS CAREER” The Klits bros. would lose and be beat up maybe even knocked OUT, if they couldn’t hold like they do now. You people are comedy central on here….Lol!Posted June 27, 2014 8:04 pm
Sredmond, I don’t see a lot of people putting Holy down, facts are he was 26-10 as a HVWT, to me that isn’t too relevant as most those losses were against top fighters, but he did lose in his prime as well, just like most greats. I see a lot more positive comments than negative. Not sure why you yourself have to constantly put down the Klitschkos. Did they take advantage of your wife or something. The hate you have for them at times seems misplaced.Posted June 27, 2014 8:00 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Vitali #1 weird almost no one noticed he retired the mans resume is refuse, he lost to the only HOF Fighter he faced in 6 rounds, had a chance to take the torch and instead got BURNED Tarks list could not even sell in the Klitschko household… FOOLPosted June 27, 2014 7:58 pm
Muhammed Ali at #10 Tark you are the dumbest person on the planet earth. Because I think you really believe that sht which is so hilarious…Posted June 27, 2014 7:58 pm
Evander Holyfield has a far better resume than the Klit sisters…It’s not even close. Evander fought warriors, he fought “Big Daddy Bowe” three times, he fought Mike Tyson in his prime twice, Byrd, Ruiz, Lewis, Moorer, Holmes, Foreman, Stewart, Savarese. The list goes on…give this man his just do. Hater get lost you never put a glove on in your life. Have a nice day..Posted June 27, 2014 7:55 pm
Where’s Joe Louis??? That’s what’s called a good question.
How about 6th … and moving 6 through 10 down a notch.Posted June 27, 2014 7:55 pm
Evander “The Real Deal” Holyfield .
Awesome , simple as that , he was every thing you could ask for in fighter , James Toney ripped the mic, from the hand of the an announcer after their fight and (quote) “dont you ever disrespect Evander Holyfield” glaringly pissed off at this chumps scant disregard for Evander!!, and i never will.
Evander , made me believe , that if there is a higher being , he can give you the power!!!, post Tyson interview will make you to!!!
Where, Evander “The Real Deal” Holyfield , sits on P4P/ATG list’s i dont know, but its up there with the best of em!!!.Posted June 27, 2014 7:54 pm
david toe haye number 6. LMFAO.Posted June 27, 2014 7:53 pm
the klits have fought nothing but bums. period.Posted June 27, 2014 7:50 pm
With the retirement of Holyfield, he needs to be assessed and ranked among the Top-10 ATG’s of Heavyweight History. Right now he occupies the 7th spot.
Historians should assess heavyweights on the basis of… 1. Their defense… 2. Their punching ability… 3. Their overall boxing skills… and 4. Their longevity at the top.
The following are the 10 best boxers from Heavyweight History: VK has the best winning percentage. WK has the 3rd best winning percentage behind Bowe—who didn’t have that many title fights and was beaten up by the ungainly fouler Andrew Golota. The K Bros have the top KO percentages of any Top-10 Heavyweights. Holyfield’s winning ratio isn’t impressive.
1. Vitali Klitschko
2. Wladimir Klitschko
3. Larry Holmes
4. Lennox Lewis
5. Jack Johnson
6. David Haye
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Gene Tunney
9. Riddick Bowe
10. Muhammad Ali
You can’t say for sure where the Bronze Bomber, Deontay Wilder will be ranked by the end of his career… However, he is 31-0 with 31 smashing KO’s to date. No one has lasted through 4. No Heavyweight Title Challenger has ever accomplished that before. DW crushed a couple dudes who gave tough fights to other top contenders … He could possibly end up as the best ever if he KOs Stiverne and Wladimir.Posted June 27, 2014 7:49 pm
True enough. He was a no better than a journeymanPosted June 27, 2014 7:46 pm
Holyfields VERY late career losses are kept in perspective by intelligent fight fans, the man was medically suspended because his skills had so badly eroded..Anyone trying to define Holy by losses to Toney and Donald is simply A JOKE, how many fights did Sugar Ray Robinson drop as he fought on long past his prime? NEVER during anything close to his prime would Evander get stopped by a BUM like Purrity, or a C level HW like Sanders, he sure would not have QUIT against a Crusierweight… I mean seriously the Klits between them NEVER provided 1/3 the excitement in their whole careers that Evander did against Riddick Bowe in 3 BATTLES… Bitter Klit fans downing Evander to make this era look anything other than WEAK, have BADLY failed..Posted June 27, 2014 7:37 pm
Evander Holyfield was a blown up Heavy Weight, but he gave us some good fights why he was boxing. He overstayed his welcome a bit…but definitely a “HOF” fighter. Have a nice day.Posted June 27, 2014 7:34 pm
Anonymous, he wouldn’t have beaten the bros, bad matchups for him, but he was still a great fighter, and warrior.Posted June 27, 2014 7:18 pm
@ yo. I’m also in the minority who thought the firstLewis fight was draw. In fact I called it a drawjust before the score cards were read then wonderedwhat all the uproar was about afterwardsPosted June 27, 2014 7:13 pm
Anybody who can say one negative word regarding holyfield is an absolute idiot. Even in his bad fights he just looked so natural. The guy was a true warrior and would have handled both klits, who let’s be fair are good but no legends.Posted June 27, 2014 7:10 pm
Yes, but Holyfields 10 losses were to quality fighters or champions. McBride, not so much. Still the 10 losses do drop him down.Posted June 27, 2014 7:08 pm
turbo hamster on tequila
Good riddance to this r01d freakPosted June 27, 2014 6:50 pm
turbo hamster on tequila
Sorry but the guy was a drug cheat. Fcck lauding him. He cheated. He deserves no place in the HOF and is nowhere close to being in the top10 atgs.Posted June 27, 2014 6:49 pm
Boxtra has serious influence in the boxing community. Not many on this site can get near enough to a living legend like Holyfield yet alone convincing the man to retire after many others including his own trainers have failed.
You are AMAZINGPosted June 27, 2014 6:47 pm
It took MY advice to finally convince the living LEGEND to retire. GREAT choice!Posted June 27, 2014 6:45 pm
Definitely an ATG of the Heavyweights, and nearly Godlike at the Crusierweight division. Holyfield was a warrior who gave you his best, win, lose, or draw. He was a part of some of the best rounds in boxing history.Posted June 27, 2014 6:40 pm
Hats off. Much respect. Hall of Famer for sure.Posted June 27, 2014 6:36 pm
Where is Wlad on that top10 list?Posted June 27, 2014 6:34 pm
Another sad day for floyd dumb dumbs
One of the greats, undefeated at cruiser and one of the best ever at that weightPosted June 27, 2014 6:29 pm
Simply put “the little train that could.” The “Real Deal” was the real deal. Taking on all comers and never took no for an answer. Bowe, Dokes, Tyson, Mercer, Moorer, Holmes, Foreman, Cooper, Lewis. Most fighters today don’t have a list like that on their record. All but two were in their prime and the two that were not could still turn back the clock. Foreman won the title after fighting Holyfield. He fought long after his prime and was still showing glimpses of the Warrior at times. He beat Valuev for the title, I don’t care what the cards said. I also thought he beat Lewis in the rematch by a point. The last real American Heavyweight Champion. Since then not too much to cheer about. Chris Arreola? REALLY?! That fool claims to be Mexican anyway. That is the sad state of the American Heavyweight Division.Posted June 27, 2014 6:11 pm
Good I’m happy to hear Hollyfield’s retirement is official.Posted June 27, 2014 6:10 pm
Should of stayed a cruiseweight,he belonged there.His record as a heavyweight was 26-10.He was not even close to being a great heavyweight.Posted June 27, 2014 6:09 pm
he can still speak coherently? uh….not so sure about thatPosted June 27, 2014 6:00 pm
he was a warrior and does belong up there with the top heavies, but could that man use his head. He butted the hell out of Tyson in both fights. The ref was not warning Holyfield for butting so Tyson took matters into his own hands nd bit his ear out of frustration. It amazes me that with all the head shots he took he can still speak coherently. Maybe the will show up later in life.Posted June 27, 2014 5:50 pm
i shall never forget the tenth round of the first bowe fight. all most out on his feet, and then summoning up the courage and spirit to force bowe into defence in the same round.
Evander, one of the greats.
We will never see one like you again.
I don’t see how the author ranks Dempsey over Lewis.
Lewis fought everybody.
Dempsey refused to defend the title against ‘colored ‘ fighters.
This in itself tarnishes his placement.
Unlike many others, I can see how Holy got a draw vs Lewis.
He was often the aggressor in the fight, intimidated Lewis, and kept Lewis uncomfortable all fight long- even though Lewis landed more.Posted June 27, 2014 5:13 pm
I don’t quite understand where the terms “huge overachiever” come from when referring to Holyfield. I believe this label detracts from his legacy and is unwarranted. It wasn’t like Holyfield was some project that exceeded all expectations by leaps and bounds. He was a highly skilled fighter with good speed and footwork, deceptive power, and a study chin. He had success at cruiserweight and heavyweight, and made the most of his many talents reaching a levels of success that he and many others thought he was capable of. He was hardly an “overachiever.”Posted June 27, 2014 5:11 pm
I have hom at #11 on my list, but what is for sure is that he was a warrior, and had a damn hard head he wasn’t afraid to use in the clinches.Posted June 27, 2014 5:08 pm
44-10, is a journeymans record.Only a bronze olympic medal.Doesn’t belong in the hall of fame.Posted June 27, 2014 5:07 pm
Octavius Jomar Chatman
Hecdog…Well said….I wish him well in his retirement….Posted June 27, 2014 4:55 pm
Evander “The Real Deal” Holyfield was a great fighter. He had all the skills and toughness to hang with any light heavyweight, cruiserweight or heavyweight ever. If we’re going to judge the man by his boxing skills alone, he could match skills with anyone in any era. He had the heart of a champion, toughness, durability, stamina, boxing skills and could fight inside. If he hurt you, he was a great, great finisher. I met him a few times, and he seemed like a very nice person. If we’re going to try and knock him down for his personal life, there are many, many more boxers past, present and future that come to mind before him. As a boxer he was great to watch. Yes, one of the best ever in my book.Posted June 27, 2014 4:51 pm
Holyfields financial status has NOTHING to do with his GREATNESS as a fighter… Most of these dudes retire broke, its a cliché and he was NEVER a “Wall St Heavyweight” he was the HW Champion of the World 4x, Undisputed HW Champ and Undisputed Cruiserweight Champ not a Banker…Posted June 27, 2014 4:29 pm
I wouldnt say Evander was negative he was ignorant at best. But a true warrior in the ring. He needs to hang them up being broke yes sucks but he can go into other avenues have some one write his story into a book I would be happy to write it.Posted June 27, 2014 4:22 pm
he was known as headbutt holyfield in his primePosted June 27, 2014 4:19 pm
Holyfield goes down as one of the least intelligent boxers ever. He wasted a $200 million Dollar fortune. He’s broke at age 51. A sad excuse for a human being given his homophobic slurs. Good riddance, Evander. Boxing doesn’t need a negative person like yourself.Posted June 27, 2014 4:12 pm
Retires? Wilder will be disappointed. He had targeted Holy as an opponent in 6 years time as his next big step up in class. Holy an ATG and would look stellar on wilders record.Posted June 27, 2014 4:10 pm
A LEGIT ATG in 2 weight classes, Holy was no joke! its crazy that he has to announce he is retiring at 51 sheeshPosted June 27, 2014 4:00 pm
HAPPY RETIREMENT to THE REAL DEAL.
EVANDER has nothing to prove and nothing to hang round for. Holyfield was a shoe-in for me to win Olympic Gold in L.A. In 1984 (my first and favourite boxing Olympics), but he KO’D the overmatched Kiwi, Kevin Barry on the ref’s break and lost by DQ.
Even then he looked like an old pro and when he turned over with the brilliant talent pool of Whittaker, Taylor, BRELAND, Page, Steve McCrory (RIP) and Tyrell Biggs under the DUVAS it was clear from the get-go that he had the talent to go real far.
I’m lucky enough to have seen most of his early fights shown on World of Sports and his thrilling title winning classic against The Camden Buzzsaw, Dwight Braxton, now Muhammad Qawi… That fight is still one of my favourite fights to dig out if I have an hour to spare and it sums up Evander’s make up. Heart, desire, will and intestinal fortitude. The rest is history, but the other fight I will remember is his heavyweight shootout with Smokin’ Bert Cooper. How he stayed up from some of those punches I’ll never know and what an exciting fight and for the most part what an exciting career.
His trilogy with Bowe and the parachute man who gatecrashed the fight and hit the crap kicked out of him, to his battles with Iron Mike and losing part of his ear (maybe Luis Suarez has that on rewind), to his unifications with Lennox and yo what I will always feel is him being robbed on the scorecards vs the lumbering oaf Nicolai Valuev, EVANDER gave 100% and actually overachieved.
Ideally, the time for him to retire would have been when he was outclassed by James TONEY all those years ago…
It will be interesting to see where the historians place EVANDER in the Pantheon of Heavyweights.
I doubt he’ll ever be forgotten.
ENJOY YOUR RETIREMENT, CHAMP!!!!!Posted June 27, 2014 3:34 pm
1.Ali 2.Louis 3.Marciano.4.johnson 5.holmes6.Holyfield 7.Dempsey8.Tyson 9.Frazier10.LewisPosted June 27, 2014 3:33 pm
A real tough one. Such a shame Wladhuggy ducked him.Posted June 27, 2014 3:30 pm
Holyfield was the true definition of warrior in terms of boxing.
Holyfield had zero fear of mike tyson and it clearly showed, that’s part of the reason I put my money not only on a Holyfield win but a late round stoppage.
A smaller man with a huge heart, willing to take on all.
To bad he kept fighting and hurt his record and his legacy a little bit, but money speaks volume.
Holyfield always gave his best a real workhorse and entertaining fighter.Posted June 27, 2014 3:25 pm
One hell of a fighter,and a very nice man,thanks for the memories champ.Posted June 27, 2014 3:24 pm
I guarantee you everyone that reads on here thought he was retired already.Posted June 27, 2014 3:18 pm