Skills didn’t win that fight. Cotto had an ancient human wreck in front of him.Posted June 20, 2014 3:58 pm
Sredmond/JOE 712…, STFU you stupid shltass.Posted June 20, 2014 3:55 pm
@ TARK.. YOU ARE THE BIGGEST MORON ON THIS SITE. COTTO DISPLAYED HIS SKILL. MARTINEZ GOT CLIPPED EARLY & COULDN’T GET HIS HEAD RIGHT. SO STOP IT ALREADY IT’S NOT A GOOD LOOK DUMMY.Posted June 20, 2014 2:26 pm
Damned right he lost… He’s 39 years old with shot knees.. He was supposed to lose. Sergio flim-flammed everybody about the state of his knees.. Roy Jones never stopped talking about his knees throughout the telecast –that’s how obvious it was his knees were the issue.
Did you just get the news that he lost? I knew he was going to lose 10 seconds into the fight when I saw how unsteady he was on his legs. Reminded me of Seth Mitchell. he has no knees either.
You’re the biggest simpleton on the planet Sredmond.Posted June 20, 2014 1:52 pm
TARK sounds like a broken record when it comes to Lenox Lewis. Smacks of the green eyed monster to me. TARK, keep copy and pasting your bs about Lewis. It’s always good to start a Friday morning with a good chuckle.
COPY & PASTE
COPY & PASTE
COPY & PASTE
Anyone can COPY & PASTE the same old garbage TARKPosted June 20, 2014 5:53 am
Tinker BTICH my knowledge of boxing out weighs any knowledge you have.Posted June 19, 2014 9:34 pm
Tarks old BTICH a$$ got proven wrong yet again. Dumb a$$. Told you to come correct when you speak to me ya dumb a$$ BTICHPosted June 19, 2014 9:33 pm
Btw, i didN’T believe Martinez when he said he was completely healed from his injuries. you can’t train your way out those types of injuries without the risk of only aggravating them and at Sergio’s advanced age the necessary yearS of rest would’ve eliminated him from consideration. by now, every knowledgeable fight-fan should recognize Roach for his notorious ability to detect and confirm the MISmatchup. after all, he’s always up-front about it like he was during the build-up to this bout. i’m not sure what some fight-fans aren’t hearing, don’t understand, or simply don’t believe(?).Posted June 19, 2014 4:03 pm
even if Martinez was absolutely convinced of his ability to defeat Cotto, nobody can claim that Cotto is ready to defend and campaign as a middleweight like a once-prime Martinez successfully did. that version of Martinez would not have lost to the Cotto that was defeated by Mayweather, Trout, and avoided Canelo. in fact, despite his “W” over Martinez, he still won’t (can’t?) be pursuing matchups v. any of these welters and jr. middles. Face It: Cotto legitimately defeated a 1) rusty 2) old 3) broken down or 4) all of the above version of Martinez. Roach said so.Posted June 19, 2014 3:55 pm
PEEJ.., You’re a stupid lying idiot… But getting that fact into your mushy brain?
That’s problematic at best. You’re too stupid for critical self evaluation.
Carry on with your delusions of knowledge about me. You’ve never trained boxers and never boxed competitively, things you readily admit to. So where’s the source of all this misinformation you’re spewing?Posted June 19, 2014 1:26 pm
Well Peej your just a fanboy with no boxing nouse if that’s what you really think. You start out with a fake argument and end up convincing yourself if it. You’ve got a soft underbelly and it’s making your brain soft. Your over compensating for your lack of athleticism with silly comments abt a contact sport. It’s not the same as netball. LMFBO.Posted June 19, 2014 8:57 am
Tark talking outta his butt as usual. This guy is a plain moron, gosh.Posted June 19, 2014 4:20 am
TARK is like a broken record. He says the same old thing time after time after time. This old timer has taken too many knock to his noggin.Posted June 19, 2014 4:00 am
“There is no hatred toward Miguel, we are both Professionals. I am totally focused on the fight and totally focused on the task at hand, which is beating Miguel Cotto. Miguel does not have the same power at this weight as he does at 147lbs,” said Martinez
“I am the power-puncher out of the two of us. The most important factor in this fight, though, is the level of intelligence that I will use on Saturday. I am not worried about the judges being swayed in this bout or any questionable decisions; becuase there is no way this fight is going the distance”
for the lying BTICH Tark.Posted June 19, 2014 2:23 am
Tark your just an old BTICH who thinks he knows boxing. Claims he has trained fighters knowing you haven’t at all. He said it himself. He said he was the bigger man and harder puncher. Unfortunately for the overrated Martinez that wasn’t the case. You always think you know stuff and are constantly proven wrong. Then you try to belittle whom ever proved your old BTICH a$$ wrong. So you should just keep my name out your mouth you old BTICH.Posted June 19, 2014 2:15 am
PEEJ you’re a liar… Martinez DIDN’T think he was the harder puncher. He knew he had nothing and tried to fake his way through it. He made a good payday when he should have been retired for good — at 39 with creeky knees he needs to be in a rocking chair.
You need a strong base to have good punching power…
If you knew a damned thing about Boxing you’d at least know that. You’re an ignoramus who keeps repeating BS like a broken record.Posted June 19, 2014 1:06 am
I did look closely. Watched the fight twice. I saw him moving just fine in the first round till he got clipped. From that point on he had issues. So sorry Tinker BTICH I didn’t see what you saw. I saw a fighter moving fine till he got clipped.Posted June 19, 2014 1:04 am
Tinker BTICH at what point was his movement hampered in the first round? He came in thinking he was the harder puncher and the bigger man. Something a lot of fighters have said they were and it costed them. Think of all the people that fought Pac and said they were the bigger man and bigger puncher only to get KOd. Did they all have knee problems also? Martinez was circling just fine in the first round till he got hit. After that he could not fully recover. I could care less what people say, what the announcers said. I am going by what I saw and what Martinez who was the one actually in the ring fighting said. So until he says something different then it isn’t true.Posted June 19, 2014 12:37 am
Your bs can be repeated infinitely, don’t make it true. The vast majority of professional observers know M was shot, his knees shot, couldn’t move effectively. You just keep it up in your bubble of denial. His corner knew it. That’s why they stopped the fight. His legs weren’t working. M lied before and after the fight. He’s trying to be honorable. Of course I don’t believe him. I believe my eyes.Posted June 19, 2014 12:15 am
Tinker BTICH I don’t have diabetes. And he was moving well until he got hurt in the first round and never recovered. Even Martinez said this. So until Martinez says something different I will go by what he said. You dumb broads are always trying to make excuses for fighters that have made no excuses them selves.Posted June 19, 2014 12:03 am
Yeup, knees had no issue with the Martinez fight. The actual fight. If he couldn’t spar because of knee issues then that is different. He couldn’t prepare himself properly. As for the actual fight though, knees were not an issue. It was Cottos left hook that was the issue.Posted June 18, 2014 11:05 pm
Tinker BTICH if you think I am fat that is all on you. Bet you wouldn’t be saying that if you were standing in front of me.Posted June 18, 2014 10:57 pm
Henry Brimm from upstate N.Y. With a so so record gave the great Robinson fits and fought him to draw.Posted June 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Sredmond.., I’m not making excuses you idiot… This is exactly what happened in the fight and everyone can now view it in hindsight… Cotto didn’t turn into a killer middleweight all of a sudden — he had a destroyed fighter in front of him.
I always said Cotto was a great boxer-puncher but he lost big time to tall southpaw Austin Trout, a guy who Lara mastered with ease. Those right hooks and straight lefts gave Cotto a ton of problems, and he couldn’t get at Trout.
I got the pick wrong. I thought Martinez was telling the truth about his knees, even though I suspected he might be BSing everybody as to not scare off viewers… I usually give people the benefit of the doubt until reality proves them a fibber… In fact, he was in far worse shape than the Murray fight where I had him losing 115-111.
I said if his knees weren’t better he’d lose.
At age 39… With braces on his knees and trunks down to his ankles — what Roy Jones was telling everybody about him rolling his feet and not being able to take any pressure??? That was exactly correct analysis by Roy.
As far as Canelo goes, I thought he would do better up until the weigh-in… But I ALWAYS said there would be no KO… I ALWAYS said the fight was going to a decision for Mayweather… I said that about 100 times and never changed.
You had Floyd winning by KO — which was extremely stupid.Posted June 18, 2014 6:53 pm
Naw you cannot know that Tark, Sergio ALWAYs gets hit and the fact is that Cotto was hitting harder than anticipated at the weight, you are polluting this board with MORE of your filthy excuses…Posted June 18, 2014 5:29 pm
No Tark you said that Martinez would win and you were HUGE on Canelo till after he got dusted then you started making excuses that even Canelo is not making “surprise surprise”….Martinez was staggered so fast his knees did not even get to become a factor, we did not know Cotto would be striking with such force at MW and Sergio who had shown a good chin would be so affected… You are a DOG who always has an explanation for why things did not go the way he thought they would…Posted June 18, 2014 5:28 pm
Peej the butter ball. 6 foot 1, 185 cm. and 220 pounds. That’s why your knees are shot you fat fcuk!Posted June 18, 2014 10:52 am
anonymous great post.Posted June 18, 2014 10:38 am
Anonymous I said he was a GREAT fighter….but he avoided Moore and Burley… End of discussion.Posted June 18, 2014 10:17 am
Hafi, “old timer” fröitmi dasses di so amüsiert! : )Posted June 18, 2014 10:16 am
The end game was ugly. “It was hard to watch Robinson in decline,” Larry Merchant recalls. “Seeing him fight when he got old was like watching Fred Astaire trip and fall on the dance floor or the desecration of a great painting.”
In the last fifty fights of his career, many of them against ordinary opposition, Robinson lost thirteen times and had four draws. “Ray had problems at the end with guys who could jab,” Emanuel Steward recounts. “And they kept him away from punchers. But he never complained about losing a fight. When he lost, no matter how close the decision, he’d go across the ring and congratulate the other guy. That’s just the way he was.”Posted June 18, 2014 9:26 am
On January 22, 1960, Robinson defended what was left of his crown against Paul Pender in Boston. He wasn’t a great fighter anymore, but he had no intention of going quietly into the night.
Don Turner, then a 20-year-old middleweight, was hired as a sparring partner preparatory to Robinson fighting Pender.
“The man was thirty-nine years old,” Turner recalls. “First sparring partner gets in the ring. Robinson knocks him down in the first round and hurts him bad enough that he can’t go on. Second sparring partner gets in the ring. Robinson knocks him down in the first round and hurts him bad enough that he can’t go on. Now it’s my turn. I’d had two pro fights and they want me to spar three rounds. I was a little nervous but I was getting paid. And to be in the ring with Sugar Ray Robinson. Wow! First round, he hit me with a left hook that knocked my headgear off, clear out of the ring. I don’t know if I’d strapped it on wrong or what. But I figured, better the headgear than my head. I lasted the three rounds, but it wasn’t easy.”Posted June 18, 2014 9:24 am
Cotto NEVER gave Martinez the chance to let his knees be an issue, the first left hook to the temple he tagged him with sent shockwaves thru Sergios body… Unlike Tark, Martinez is a MAN and was a REAL Champ he made no excuses especially after all the prefight arrogance and statements Cotto was not getting past the 9th when ultimately it was Sergio getting mercifully saved by his corner… AGAIN Tarks a revisionist he did the SAME thing when Floyd outboxed Canelo as if that was inconceivable prefight.. He peddled excuses and he will keep peddling till his arthritic old fingers no longer allow him to pollute the boards…Posted June 18, 2014 9:22 am
Good to see dick beaten ECAT and Hafidh are in boxing’s hall of game and making so much money with their vainglorious insights into the fight game.
Sugar Ray Robinson has been named the greatest fighter of all time, pound for pound, by the International Boxing Research Organization, a reputable association of boxing historians, analysts and writers. Robinson certainly has all of the qualifications to be titled as the greatest of them all. The Sugar man possessed every asset of a great boxing master; grace, speed, balance, fantastic skill, pulverizing punching power, an indestructible chin, and an indomitable will. Further his competition is among the best of any fighter in any weight class. Robinson also had longevity to go along with a great ring record.
There are a number of ways to rate fighters in an all time sense, but it boils down to two important considerations. One is to judge the ability of a fighter. That is to ask who brings the most attributes to the ring. Rating fighters on talent is one method. The other is to rate fighters strictly on their ring record by weighing their accomplishments and quality of opposition. In either case Robinson is difficult to compare.
What other fighter could beat you more ways than could Sugar Ray Robinson? Ray could out box boxers and out punch punchers. He could do it inside or outside, going forward or backward. That cannot be said of any other all time great that received a first place vote in the IBRO poll. Not Harry Greb, not Bob Fitzsimmons, not Jack Dempsey, not Henry Armstrong, not Sam Langford. Nor could it be said of 4-5th place finishers Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis. Runner up Greb and 3rd place finisher Armstrong were primarily pressure fighters. Dempsey, Louis, Langford and top 10 finisher Roberto Duran could box and punch, but they could not “outbox” boxers with speed and agility. Ali could outbox punchers but he could not out punch punchers. Ali was also one dimensional in that he was strictly a head hunter and not a complete fighter. In terms of all around ability, hitting power and versatility, Robinson deserves the top spot.
Although not as fundamentally sound as Joe Louis, Robinson was more multifaceted. Louis was an economically sound boxer who wasted no movement, had a tight structure and threw short compact punches with precision and power. According to the boxing book that is how it is suppose to be done. Robinson transcended that by adding fluidity of movement and grace to his ring style. Sugar Ray was not the first fighter to fight in the elegant style that he possessed. What made Robinson so special was that he combined speed, balance and flash with devastating explosive power.
Men like Louis, Langford, and Dempsey could knock you out with one punch from either hand. So could Robinson. Ray could do it with his powerful left hook as he did against Gene Fullmer or with his perfect straight right as he did against Rocky Graziano. Joe Louis could throw triple left hooks with speed, power and accuracy that could destroy a man. Robinson could throw triple left hooks and triple right hooks that could do the same. Who else could do that and maintain frightening power?
Punch for punch Ray Robinson was one of boxing histories all time best punchers. Robinson once knocked out Gene Fullmer with a picturesque left hook while moving backwards displaying the one shot shock power of an all time puncher. The Ring magazine rated him 11th among all the great punchers of history in their 2003 article the 100 greatest punchers of all time.
In terms of combination punching the two best fighters in history for speed, power, and accuracy are Joe Louis and Ray Robinson. Robinson worked some of the prettiest combinations ever seen and can be considered the best ever in this category. Robinson was also a great body puncher. In a comparison to some of the great Mexican body punchers of the recent era like Julio Cesar Chavez and Marco Antonio Barrera; who go to the body primarily around the opponents guard, Robinson punched up the middle as well as to the outside. Robinson was an aggressive, dexterous puncher with many weapons to choose from.
Killer instinct is the instrument the drives the wheel of destruction in many of the great fighters. Nat Fleischer once wrote that Robinson, for all his skill, could rip and tear like a Jack Dempsey. Some commentators have stated that Robinson was not a great defensive fighter. This is no doubt true. When one is aggressive and really goes after their opponent they are going to leave themselves open for counters. This is not always a bad thing. When Robinson was on the attack his opponents had to worry about his full battery of offensive weapons. Robinson’s defense was his irrepressible offense, although he used his footwork, height and reach to get away from trouble when necessary.
Robinson had a great chin and his will to win is among the best. Sugar Ray was never physically knocked out in more than 200 pro fights. One can see Robinson’s gritty determination in his films. He punishes his rivals as though he is upset that they would even think that they could compete with him. He was as determined and confident as any boxing champion in history.
Ray Robinson was the archetype of a complete fighter. If one combines his polished, grand boxing style with his powerful punching and cast iron chin with a will to win unsurpassed in the annals of boxing one has a perfect fighter.
Five men can lay claim to having the best record in boxing history in terms of their accomplishments and quality of opposition. Those men are Harry Greb, Henry Armstrong, Benny Leonard, Muhammad Ali and Ray Robinson.
Harry Greb fought 14 world champions and 4 championship title claimants. He had wins against all of them. That means he faced and defeated 18 of 18 champions that he met in the ring at least once. Greb’s record reads like a who’s who of great fighters from the late teens and 20’s. His quality of opposition is unmatched defeating five world middleweight champions, seven world light-heavyweight champions and one future heavyweight champion. The names include, Mike McTigue, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Loughran, Tommy Gibbons Jimmy Slattery, Maxie Rosenbloom, Mickey Walker and Gene Tunney. Although not much more than a middleweight he also won dozens of fights against heavyweights including matches against Bill Brennan and Billy Miske both of whom fought for the heavyweight title. Greb came in second in the IBRO poll based primarily on his exceptional ring record.
Henry Armstrong’s feats are amazing. During his peak run Hank was 59-1-1 with 51 knockouts against topflight competition, which included winning the featherweight, lightweight and welterweight world titles. Armstrong scored 27 straight knockouts during 1937-1938. He came within a hair’s breadth of winning titles in 4 major weight classes when he drew for the middleweight title in 1940 against reigning titleholder Ceferino Garcia, a fighter he had already beaten. Hank also made 20 successful defenses of the welterweight title, a record that still stands to this day. Armstrong’s accomplishments put him in the conversation when discussing the greatest fighter of all time. The one knock against Armstrong is that he lacked longevity and was at his peak for only a short time. Armstrong was a like a fire that burned so brightly that it quickly burned itself out.
Benny Leonard faced the greatest line up of lightweight challengers in ring history. Benny a master boxer of the first order is one fighter who could compete with Robinson in the area of boxing skill and all around ability. His competition was also fierce. He defeated featherweight champions Johnny Kilbane and Johnny Dundee, lightweight champions Freddie Welsh, Willie Ritchie and Rocky Kansas. He defeated some great challengers such as Lew Tendler still considered one of the best fighters to never win a title as well as tough competitors such as Ritchie Mitchell, Patsy Cline, Joe Welling and left hook artist Charley White. Leonard retired undefeated as lightweight champion after 7 years although he did benefit somewhat from the no decision rules of the time.
Muhammad Ali beat the best competition in heavyweight history. As a three time champion he defeated Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, Ken Norton, and Leon Spinks. He also defeated hard hitting contenders such as Ron Lyle and Earnie Shavers. Ali dominated nearly two decades of heavyweight boxing and must be considered among the best in the category of quality of opposition.
Ray Robinson’s achievements are no less impressive. Robinson amassed a peak professional record of 128-1-2 while winning the welterweight and middleweight titles. The only fighters to surpass Robinson’s peak won-loss record are Willie Pep’s 134-1-1 and perhaps Rocky Marciano’s 49-0, although neither faced close to Robinson’s quality of opposition.
Robinson went 40-0 as a pro before losing a decision to Jake Lamotta, a middleweight who outweighed him by nearly 16 pounds. He was unbeatable for the next eight years going on a 91 bout winning streak. His career record against Lamotta, the only man to ever beat a prime Robinson is 5-1. Lamotta outweighed him by an average of 12 pounds in all of their fights.
Overall Robinson defeated 10 Hall of Famer’s in his career; Jake Lamotta, Sammy Angott, Fritzie Zivic, Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, Rocky Graziano, Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer and Carmen Basilio. He also defeated some skilled challengers such as Tommy Bell who could have been champion in the modern era. Ray was undefeated as welterweight champion and won the middleweight title for a record 5 times.
Robinson should have won the middleweight tile for a 6th time but received a dubious draw against Gene Fullmer at age 39. The film clearly demonstrates that Robinson should have received the decision. Ray won the fight in the ring only to be robbed of the decision. Robinson’s longevity puts him among the 5 best geriatric champions of all time with Bob Fitzsimmons, Archie Moore, George Foreman and Bernard Hopkins.
Robinson was absolutely outstanding in rematches. He won rematches against 11 men before finally losing twice to the same fighter. No one ever beat him twice until he was 40 years old and had over 150 fights and even then they were two split-decisions against Paul Pender.
One should also consider that Robinson’s activity level made him sharper and more experienced than modern fighters. For example in 1946 the year he won the welterweight title Sugar Ray fought 16 times. In 1947 he fought 10 times. In 1949 he fought 13 times. In 1950 he fought 19 times. The other “Sugar Ray” Leonard only fought 40 pro fights in his entire career. Robinson’s total record is 175-19-6 2 NC with 109 kayo’s. 16 of his 19 losses came after his first comeback at age 34, 12 after the age of 40.
To sum it up, Robinson was the consummate professional fighter who possessed every physical asset; speed, agility, mobility, and tremendous punching power. He rates among a select few of the all time greats who could defeat fighters using their own best assets against them. Robinson, a true sharpshooter, easily rates among the best pound for pound punchers in history. Robinson is possibly the greatest combination puncher of all time. His quality of opposition is among the top five. Ray’s peak won-loss record is among the top three. Ray’s overall ring record and accomplishments also rate among the top three. Robinson is among the top five of all time in the category of longevity. Ray had all the intangibles, great experience, killer instinct, a tremendous chin and heart. When one adds it all up it is easy to see why the respected IBRO rated Sugar Ray Robinson as the greatest fighter of all time.Posted June 18, 2014 9:12 am
Hafidh, he’s a dickhead like you
Charley Burley on Sugar Ray Robinson
“You know, to me the most remarkable thing about Ray’s career is that he didn’t even get a shot at the welterweight title til he was 26- or the middleweight title til’ he was 30! You think he was the greatest? What do you think he’d a been if he’d gotten his chances when he deserved them? You wanna know the truth? If I coulda’ got my shot, I wouldn’t have risked it fighting someone like Ray.”Posted June 18, 2014 9:05 am
Yes i do agree with TARK. Whats your opinion ?
LOL You think ECAT is an old timer? Bahhh…….too funny ! ! !Posted June 18, 2014 8:18 am
LOL @ Anonymous
So it’s wrong to blame SRR because it was Robinson’s management who pulled him out of the fight in 46 ?Posted June 18, 2014 8:16 am
of course fighters are fitter and stronger today. thats why they can fight once or twice a year.Posted June 18, 2014 7:32 am
ECAT you are the fool, you ignoramous. Robinson’s management pulled him out of the fight in 46. Burley was high risk, low reward you noofter! Burley was ducked by every top class fighter of his day, because there was no upswing in facing him. He was the president of the who needs him club.
O and on the Sergio Martinez debate that has invaded this thread. It was both his knees and Cotto’s left hooks that did him in. But here is the issue. His knees are shot. In training he essentially could not spar. Probably went nearly a year without being hit. I think from a chin standpoint he was not accustomed to punches anymore and he could not condition himself to do so. The entire pre camp and training camp was all about keeping him from re ocurring an injury. Sergio hoped to just show up with his mental confidence and let it all hang out on fight night and he felt that he could outclass Cotto. The Sparring lets you know if you have it or not. Sergio did not have real sparring or he would found out beforehand that he did not have it and he probably would have injured himself before the fight took place. Cotto IMO is fighting at a higher level than he was for Austin Trout, but not at the level he was before Margarito. I also think Cotto does not have a “war” left in him either.Posted June 18, 2014 5:40 am
I groaned a bit when i got my first look at Rose. Typical slug englishmen, like they have to go the UK to find a bum for Andrade to pad his record with. This guy was cut from the cloth of that no hoper brit that Canelo fought. Not to mention Mathew Hatton or Gavin Reese. There have been some quality UK fighters, legends modern and old Calzaghe, Benn, Eubank, Hatton (R), Lennox. But i do not like importing ones that are’nt the goods just to make our blue chip american prospects look good. I would rather tough journeymen do that. Guys like Darnell Boone, Grady Brewer, Emmanuel Augustus, those are the types of guys the sport needs to test up and comers.Posted June 18, 2014 5:30 am
Tark you dumb BTICH I’m not as skinny as you think I am. My 6’1 frame weighing in at 220lbs with a bum knee will beat you down like the BTICH you are. You dumb BTICH.Posted June 18, 2014 2:39 am
Agree with the article, too many padded records that don’t prepare fighters for the top level.
PEEJ.., you couldn’t whoop a sick whore you skinny little waif with rickety knees. You said you were done talking to me so STFU snot face.Posted June 18, 2014 2:12 am
Dumb ass Tark I bet with my bum knee that I am still able to play ball on I could whoop your old ass. Ya dumb old BTICH. Step your knowledge up next time you address me.Posted June 18, 2014 1:50 am
Done talking to me? That’s GREAT NEWS. Good riddance you ignorant butternut.
And I’m thankful you have bad knees. So much slower for you to get to your computer and log on — much to everyone’s relief from your stupid remarks.Posted June 18, 2014 1:32 am
Once again you are an idiot. I am done talking to you. I got all I needed when your dumb a$$ said Porter is not bigger than Broner. You are just plain stupid. I could care less what Roach said also. You got no clue. I am speaking from experience. Someone who plays basketball on bad knees and have seen shot knees ya dumb a$$Posted June 18, 2014 12:22 am
You’re unbelievably stupid PEEJ.. Martinez looked terrible moving around… worse than I’ve ever seen him… He was rolling on his feet, something Roy Jones pointed out.
His knees weren’t stiff.. They were shot.. To beat an ATG fighter who you’re giving up 6 years to at the age of 39 — you better not have horrlibe knees like that.
He was trying to hide his knees with longer trunks than he usually wears.Posted June 18, 2014 12:20 am
Tark listen up ya BTICH. I have bad knees. I wake up the same way he does. When I sit longer than 5 minutes I am stiff again and walk stiff legged till my legs or knees warm back up. His knees are not the issue. It was the left hooks from Cotto that caused the problem. If you want to say his knees were the issues in training whatever. Fact is he looked good in the first round moving around until he got hit by Cotto that hurt him. That is when all this garbage about his knees started in the fight. So the main issue was Cottos hooks and not his knees. So stop Tark. I speak from experience you do not. So stopPosted June 18, 2014 12:13 am
Andrade doesn’t need more seasoning. He’s a title holder, all the marinating he needed was done in the first several years of his pro career. If his people can get the likes of Canelo in the ring do it. I just wish he’d be aggressive every time out. He has the hand speed, skills and power to be an exciting fighter but his mentality is always to be conservative. Screw that. KO dudes everytime out and he’d become must-see TV.Posted June 17, 2014 8:54 pm
Andrade is not getting a big money fight right now. He is gonna have to fight some better comp before getting pushed to that big pay dayPosted June 17, 2014 8:25 pm
Yeah Tarks dumb A$$ is always coming out with some excuse on why his pick was wrong instead of just saying he was wrong. Martinez knees were not the issue against Cotto. It was Cottos left hook he landed that put him on noodles. Funny how when fighters say they were hit and could not recover it was because of the punch. But Martinez saying he was hit and could not recover said he was caught cold and everybody is making excuses saying it was his knees. Why do people always try to make excuses for people who do not use any excuses at all.Posted June 17, 2014 8:24 pm
Andrade’s so called fight vs Rose was strictly a set up for a big money fight. Even the commentators were promoting him. Rose had no head movement , just stood there and took punches. He stood directly in front of Andrade and never circled away .Andrade is being matched soft and boxing should not buy the promotional spin.Posted June 17, 2014 8:11 pm
Tark you are even qualifying on Canelo against Lara ie “Canelo could win if he’s not drained” BUT you wanna go for Lara also? You don’t have the balls to pick and own the result absent discussion of factors a SCRUB like you cannot know from the comfort of your padded room ie training methods and “making weight” own a pick BUM!Posted June 17, 2014 8:09 pm
Tark that’s the difference between me and you I am able to admit that I was wrong about Bradley and Martinez WHEREAS you make BAD picks then peddle excuses and Monday morning QB which is WEAK!!! You had Sergio winning then when he lost BAD you start discussing what you saw on 24/7!! Same with Canelo, he was the man till Floyd showed him the UPPERMOST level NOW you are insinuating Trout beat him.. You’re a BUMPosted June 17, 2014 8:05 pm
Bret the fighters are BETTER today than EVER due to better training methods; medicine; nutrition and preparation methods for a fight.Posted June 17, 2014 7:47 pm
Actually you DIDN’T pick Marquez to KO Pacquiao… You picked him to KO Bradley… Always chasing the last fight like an idiot.Posted June 17, 2014 7:42 pm
You’re an ignorant jerk Sremond… You get more picks wrong than anyone you stupid ass… You also picked Martinez. I guess you forgot.
You also picked Peterson to beat Matthysee, Marquez to KO Pacquiao, Floyd to KO Canelo, Matthysee to KO Garcia, and many other stupid picks. You know shlt about Boxing.
At least I said Martinez would win only if his knees held up.. They didn’t.. I don’t know the condition of his knees.. I’m not in his camp … But it was obvious from the 1st round his knees were gone. Something Roy Jones observed all night. That’s not revisionist — that’s what happened you stupid jerk.Posted June 17, 2014 7:41 pm
Tarks the same gutless wonder who picked Martinez to win then started the excuses when Cotto blew out his flame EARLY… Tarks a known revisionist and Monday Morning Quarteback…Posted June 17, 2014 7:17 pm
Funny how folks say people are bigger and stronger these days but yet are quick to say how they wouldn’t beat this fighter of this age or this fighter of that age. Makes me laugh.Posted June 17, 2014 7:09 pm
Jamal that is what I said. Barker was a titlest not a champion. You just agreed with me.Posted June 17, 2014 7:06 pm
bret is fulla crap. like athletes of the 50s would break olympic records today? then why didn’t they set them? athletes today are bigger, stronger, faster, better. boxing science has advanced as wellPosted June 17, 2014 7:06 pm
Tark you old BTICH Martinez knees were not the issue. Cottos left hook that put him on noodles was the issue. Ya dumb old BTICH.Posted June 17, 2014 7:06 pm
Why target Matchroom? Their job is to develop prospects and get their fighters premium fights and title shots after they’ve marinated. If the guys in their stable always get clobbered that’s on them.Posted June 17, 2014 5:51 pm
ECAT says, Well it would be pointless anyway, you’re not objective and way too emotional.
Burley retired in 1950, the same year Sugar Ray Robinson was reigning World Welterweight champion, defending against Charley Fusari on August 9. Charley Burley had his last fight vs Pilar Bastidas on 22 July 1950.
Robinson next fought for the Pennsylvania Middlweight drown on 25th August (Burley, now retired)!
There was only a very small window in which SRR could have fought Burley as throughout the 40′s he was defending his Welterweight crown, although he could possibly have faced him in late 1948 or 49, by which time Burley was no longer a viable name.
Is this objective enough for you?
You’re all talk and no substance.Posted June 17, 2014 4:49 pm
Most of the guys he fought would dominate boxing today. there were alot of slick strong durable pressure fighters in his time and they were waaaaay better than the ones we got nowadays.Posted June 17, 2014 4:42 pm
I meant to say I grew up with the Robinson / Burley story… the Leonard / McCallum story…Posted June 17, 2014 4:27 pm
Opinions are like farts everyone else’s stinks but not your own.
Well mine do but I eat any rancid meat or invertebrate I can catch in my huge claws.Posted June 17, 2014 4:17 pm
“You can say what you want to, but I do not wish to get into a slanging match with you or anyone else. This is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.”
Well it would be pointless anyway, you’re not objective and way too emotional.Posted June 17, 2014 3:41 pm
Everybody knows that Walker avoided Burley! Hell I grew up with the Robinson / Burley; Ali / Holmes; Hearns / McCallum stories!
Burley WANTED Robinson, but Robinson wanted NO part of him! Burley…”Ray ducked me. George GAinford admitted that much.” Robinson… “I’m too pretty to fight Burley.”
Robinson initially signed for a fight 1946, but he pulled out.Posted June 17, 2014 3:23 pm
Is inventing new names and posting senseless crap your hobby?Posted June 17, 2014 2:37 pm
Tark is switch hitter. I think he was married once then got divorced cause of his bi S E X ual intentions. Last year A man and his groupie’s named Mork came into Tark’s life. From Las Vegas to L.A. the rumors where all true. Boxing fans know the truth !Posted June 17, 2014 1:43 pm
munty the dog farmer
Vegas is a tacky hole in the desert. Designed to take money of boggle eyed fools. I fart in its general direction.Posted June 17, 2014 1:10 pm
ECAT, there is no question that at its peak 2010, 2011 or even early 2012 it would have been a true summit meeting and and unreal event even though in my opinion the action might have been anticlimactic… That said responsibility for the fight not happening is shared, I think Manny is getting a pass because he is seen as less capable in regards to advocating for his position (just snippets) reality is that the standoff between these promoters has been real and very comprehensive… Its a shame but there have been GREAT fights and events since then and there will be GREAT fights after both are retired…Posted June 17, 2014 12:38 pm
Hearns is my favourite fighter of all time. It was seeing him box that got me into boxing and into boxing gyms and many of my school friends followed me into boxing.
I have never stated Hearns is the best fighter ever and never will, but he is my all-time favourite fighter. My all time favourite British boxers are Carl Cat Thompson and Carl Cobra Froch. All three fighters will never be regarding as the greatest ever, but I cannot remember many fights of theirs that have not brought thrills, spills and excitement.
You can say what you want to, but I do not wish to get into a slanging match with you or anyone else. This is my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
I just repeated what knowledgeable people in the game have related to me.Posted June 17, 2014 12:14 pm
Burley retired in 1950, the same year Sugar Ray Robinson was reigning World Welterweight champion, defending against Charley Fusari on August 9. Charley Burley had his last fight vs Pilar Bastidas on 22 July 1950.
Robinson next fought for the Pennsylvania Middlweight drown on 25th August (Burley, now retired)!
There was only a very small window in which SRR could have fought Burley as throughout the 40’s he was defending his Welterweight crown, although he could possibly have faced him in late 1948 or 49, by which time Burley was no longer a viable name.
The same stupidness regarding the overrated Paul Williams is routinely thrown at Mayweather!
It’s all good throwing out one-liners, hut would be nice if you could provide evidence to back up your flippant comments!Posted June 17, 2014 12:08 pm
TJ — “you’re not even worth debating with.”
Yeah I know how much you LOVE the great Tommy Hearns… I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings… but Hearns HAD a lousy defense period.Posted June 17, 2014 12:07 pm
SREDMOND — I agree with you on that… but you have to admit that FMJ vs Pac would have been GREAT!
And let’s not forget that on the two occasions where the fight was actually being discussed—Pac walked away.
ECAT, you’re not even worth debating with.Posted June 17, 2014 11:54 am
mack — “Today, Deontay Wilder is getting a title shot.”
In ALI’S TIMES a boxer with a FAR WORSE record got a title shot!!!Posted June 17, 2014 11:00 am
ECAT, even the Great Sugar Ray Leonard said that if he fought Floyd he would not even go for the chin because in his estimation it is not hittable… Mayweather is the REAL deal, the man is ALWAYS in shape, ready and mentally strong… He was facing jail before Cotto and still prevailed, Maidana gave him a hard push early in the bout and in the latter rounds it was the OLDER fighter digging deep and banging Marcos to the head, Canelo was 13 years younger and 17 pounds heavier and Mayweather took all that away with superior technique, ring IQ and speed… There is no intelligent denial of his Greatness, Oscar 6 weight Champ, Cotto 4 weight Champ, Marquez 3 weight Champ, Shane 3 weight Champ, Guerrero 3 weight Champ and the list goes on.Posted June 17, 2014 10:24 am
Its hilarious that guys try to act like Floyd Mayweather was ALWAYS on top of boxing from and economic and power standpoint… That’s a LIE until Mayweather fought Oscar he was considered one of the best in the sport in terms of talent but he earned his bankability thru consistency and defeating ODH on the BIG stage.. Selling Vegas as this massive “hometown advantage” is just ANOTHER excuse Mayweather has fought most of his bouts there in his 30’s as an aging boxer how many losses did Oscar have in Vegas? The reason that MASSIVE events have been able to be staged is due to the fact that Vegas is the ULTIMATE fight town…80,000 people piling into a venue with a low dollar amount is nice but the stage that shines the brightest is VEGAS for boxing and it has allowed for the biggest paydays for fighters in the sports history…Posted June 17, 2014 10:20 am
“FMJ spent half his career in World Championship fights…”
FMJ’s superior defense and high boxing IQ would causes problems for ANY boxer in history IMO.Posted June 17, 2014 10:19 am
You look at Carl Froch’s career and it was all built of the back of the super six. Dennis Hobson was struggling like mad to get froch the big fights. He had to move Froch into a mandatory position to fight for a world title and then Froch was such poor return that the champion vacated rather that have to fight Froch. So Hobson got Froch a crack at the WBC. Next was the Taylor fight which again Froch was of so little value to get a decent pay day Hobson did not win the purse and he had to go over to America to fight Taylor. People talk up Froch’s resume but make no bones about it title or no title if the super six had not have happened Froch would have not got those big fights he got. But off the back of it he’s had an amazing career and build up one of the best resumes in boxing.Posted June 17, 2014 9:57 am
* I meant to say Burley…sorry, sent from iPhone…Posted June 17, 2014 9:34 am
“I have a collection of 1000s of VHS and DVDs I’ve been collecting for over 30 years and I know a great fighter when I see one.” LOL You sound like my dad…
IMO Robinson was not the GOAT…
Hafidh my dear, there’s no need for it, I stand by what I said about Dundee.Posted June 17, 2014 9:23 am
Today, a glitzy record is more important to the networks and to casual fans than the actual ability to fight, which comes with genuine experience. Fighters arriving unbeaten at a title shot were unusual in the forties and fifties. Jimmy Ellis, recently deceased, lost to experienced fighters like Don Fullmer and Rubin Carter, but these losses weren’t held against him when he finally got to the top. Good fighters fought other good fighters and sometimes they lost. It was part of their education. Today, Deontay Wilder is getting a title shot. He has never faced a top twenty opponent. Maybe he will prevail, but he has certainly been protected, probably more protected than he needed to be, but he has gotten to the top on the basis of a flashy but insubstantial record.Posted June 17, 2014 8:55 am
we once had real legends in boxing.today you have prima donnas hype jobs and i think some ped cheats lol.Posted June 17, 2014 8:40 am
ray robinson. the best ever PERIOD.Posted June 17, 2014 8:27 am
This is how boxing has been run since it started.
Its a business not a sport. As long as promoter/tv are making money its not an issue. The Haye/Harrison fiasco was made by matchroom.
What happened to Frank Warren was the public rumbled his world title fights were a sham. At that point Sky bailing out of his fights was logical.Posted June 17, 2014 8:18 am
Peej – what you on about pal? Darren barker beat geale for the IBF middleweight title prior to retirement….obviously Martinez was recognized as the champ but nonetheless barker won a title. End of.Posted June 17, 2014 7:57 am
Personally I feel Matchroom are right to do what they do. Make as much money as they can and then get their fighter a title shot. Sure 8 or even 9 out of 10 will lose this title shot but fighting for world titles in America is every fighters dream.
If they were to follow the author’s advice then many would not even ever get a world title shot. The bottom line is if you are good enough, you are good enough. Kell Brook could be anything. He may get whopped or he may be better then we thought. The opportunity is there for him. Personally i would prefer to make as much money as I can (with little risk as possible) and then take a shot at the title. If I win GREAT, if I lose the family is financally sorted.
I’d much rather that then lose to a talented world call fighter in a non title fight with fcuk all money made..Posted June 17, 2014 7:46 am
Mick the Marmalizer
Unfortunatly there’s far too many stay at home boxers in the UK, which will hold them back, particularly at the lighter weights, flyweights such as Kevin Satchell & Charlie Hoy ETC could well do with 6 months in Thailand, Mexico, South Africa or Japan to gain valuable experience of fighting overseas.Posted June 17, 2014 7:05 am
PEEJ.., “Martinez’s lack of sparring and activity is what did him in. Not his knees.”
His rotten kneew kept him from sparrring and activity you dummy… He was having multiple KNEE operations and trying to rehab them.
Those surgeries and rehabbing the knees never took… That’s what Roy pointed outPosted June 17, 2014 3:06 am
Barker is actually a retired titlest. He was ever the champion at 160. That was Martinez until recently.Posted June 17, 2014 2:29 am
What a rediculous argument by the writer. How the hell do we know if someone is domestic based level or international/elite if they only fight domestically? You can’t is the answer!
Martinez inactivity was more of an issue that his knees were. He was moving just fine in the first round till he got hurt and then from there he was no longer moving on sturdy legs. His lack of sparring and activity is what did him in. Not his knees. What Roy was saying made no sense. I play basketball and have bad knees. I know what bad knees looks like. Especially since I play ball with people with bad knees. His knees were not the problem, it was the sparring, inactivity and Cotto that caused the way Martinez looked in that fight.Posted June 17, 2014 2:14 am
Beating Martinez wasn’t that impressive for Cotto because Martinez was 39 with shot knees.. Roy Jones’s astute commentary summed up Martinez’s knee situation very well.. Martinez was coming off multiple surgeries on his knees … and apparently it just wrecked them worse than ever.
Ancient and disabled are 2 situations you don’t want to be in versus an ATG fighter like Cotto.. It was kind of like Ali versus Holmes.. As badly as Larry beat a 38-year-old Ali, who never even landed a good punch, nobody gives Holmes a whole lot of credit for that.
Martinez was older, also off a long layoff, and his physical situation was even worse.. I was hoping he was rehabbed. Vitali Klitschko took 4 years off at an advanced age and rehabbed his knees to where he said they never felt better — and I was hoping it was something like that.
Roach said Martinez was a shot fighter and was trying to BS his way through the Cotto fight.. For once I should have listened to him.Posted June 17, 2014 1:30 am
Well he is the money and people are seeking to fight him for the payday. But that is not what I was saying. I was saying that he has not needed any hometown judging to win a fight. If you think Maidana won that is fine. It was a close fight. But he didn’t need hometown judges just to get the nod in that fight. Most people in the boxing industry think Floyd won that fight. Most fans think he won the fight. But he has fought outside of Vegas and has also won. He just likes Vegas because of the tax in Vegas. Or lack there of I believe.Posted June 17, 2014 1:02 am
Please Floyd doesn’t need any hometown judging. That is ridiculous. And bringing up Marciano is also ridiculous. You do realize he was a heavyweight right?Posted June 16, 2014 10:06 pm
I love all era Boxing but I DO rate the Fighters. SKILLS wise Floyd is definitely the GOAT. There’s never been a guy SO fundamentally sound and athletically gifted. It’s a RUNAWAY for GOAT. He’s the most accurate puncher EVER and his Defense isn’t TOO shabby either. It’s virtually impossible to knock him out OR outpoint him. That’s the definition of GOAT.Posted June 16, 2014 8:58 pm
What makes the sport far more exciting and subjective is every fighter has their weak points and can be beaten so debating who is the best is a ridiculous argument i enjoy all styles. Why not just enjoy fighters for their personal styles i personally love fighters from all the different eras of boxing.Posted June 16, 2014 8:46 pm
That is the one question mark O have about some of these ancient fighters who had 250 fights, how could the caliber of that opposition have been but so good? All professionals are not created equal, if a guy had 200 fights that’s would mean he fought almost once per month for 20 years hard to believe most of those guys were quality.. I don’t fight the SRR (Greatest) argument but it’s my thought that a lot of Old Timers would have caught hell with these guys also.. I don’t care what the ERA Floyd Mayweather can fight and he’s spent half his career in World Championship fights he’s gonna be at or near the top during any WW era…Posted June 16, 2014 8:27 pm
Floyd is the GOAT right NOW and facing Pacquiao, Porter, or Lara won’t change it. He’s already been in the Top 2 richest Fights in History. The key common denominator in those Fights. Robinson would take alot more L’s in today’s day and age. IF he had to Fight once every 6 months he wouldn’t be as dedicated as Floyd IS. He couldn’t even stay dedicated when he had Fights every 2 weeks or every couple of months. One of the reasons that Floyd is the GOAT is because he’s more dedicated to his craft than most people who have walked this Earth. There’s no one out there on his level. His F game beats guys A game. That is called GOATNESS.Posted June 16, 2014 8:18 pm
Hafidh, ECAT and TARK.
Most tape of Ray Robinson is from his time as a Middleweight. Robinson was at his very peak as a Welterweight, virtually untouchable but unfortunately almost no tape exists of him in his welterweight pomp. But, he was still good enough at Middleweight to win the crown on 5 occasions in a talent-laden division. I tend to believe the hundreds of analysts and everyone I’ve spoken to in the fight game (many, sadly not with us anymore) who were lucky enough to see him in the flesh in his pomp.
Robinson was the one who took boxing to another level, he did his tour of Europe taking his belt on the road, he is the reason why this POUND 4 POUND debate reigns to this day. He was so good that he transcended the sport. The mob asked him to throw a fight and when he refused politely they left him alone because he was so good, even they knew not to threaten him.
It’s easy to pick apart the performances of a fighter, but when Sugar Ray fought nearly 200 times it’s quite amusing that only 2 performances can be thrown in his face. He was not a Light Heavyweight and dared to dream and lost due to heat exhaustion.
TARK, I have spent time with Roger and unless you have I don’t think you should be calling him punchy. He is very lucid when it comes to speaking on the history of boxing or talking about his son.
I actually am lucky enough to know and talk to quite a few boxing historians from both sides of the pond and they are all unanimous in calling Sugar Ray the best.
I have no axe to grind and I don’t claim to know everything about boxing but I have a collection of 1000s of VHS and DVDs I’ve been collecting for over 30 years and I know a great fighter when I see one.
I could pick holes in certain Pac fights, Mayweather fights, even Porter, Brook, Thurman fights if you wish to play that game.
I talk alot of boxing with guys who earn their livings debating boxing, ranking fighters etc and who are regularly on the TV, who run professional gyms and have been champions of the world in more than one division.
It’s all very good to laugh, but these are the words from out of his mouth, not mine.Posted June 16, 2014 8:02 pm
glad to see the yanks love kell brook. in the uk the guy is a joke.Posted June 16, 2014 7:51 pm
Cotto just made Martinez QUIT on his stool at MW but Shawn Porter, Thurman and Brook are more dangerous?? Preposterous Cotto stopping Martinez is WAYYYY more impressive than Porter stopping Paulie who is not even a Champ…Posted June 16, 2014 7:29 pm
Hafidh yeah i think those two guys are dangerous and fresh and young enough to cause an upset with Pacman and definitely be competitive with Floyd Thurman seems to of either slipped under the radar or is being avoided i would love to see Thurman Broner think Thurman would win by KO but Adrien has moved down now. Shame. Do you agree with Tark about Robinson not being the greatest?Posted June 16, 2014 7:22 pm
Aber über Chris Dundee und Carlos Marcella müssen wir morgen DRINGEND nochmal reden!Posted June 16, 2014 7:20 pm
I agree with you regarding Robinson.Posted June 16, 2014 7:17 pm
Tark how crazy are you?? Basically you say the Lara cannot lose UNLESS the judges screw him over!!! That’s crazy Lara is talented but he’s has looked vulnerable on more than one occasions.. You keep adding qualifiers, he got jerked with Williams just like Molina got jerked with him… He did not impress against Vanes who Andrade was able to beat..Posted June 16, 2014 7:07 pm
I say Mayweather vs. Thurman or Garcia.
“ This thread is about Brian Rose and Match Rooms matchmaking why we talking about Algieri and Pacman that fight will never happen the backlash would be too severe.I say Pacman vs Keith Thurman or Danny Garcia. “Posted June 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Not a single person on here like’s or respects boxing or actually knows anything about the sport it’s embarrassing. All you guys do on every forum is take fighters down a peg you don’t enjoy a fighter for their individual style but purely based on an a stats and who beat who ratio. Ezzard Charles was ko’d numerous times before becoming a world champ Jack Johnson was stopped before he became world champion Willie Pep was beaten by Dick Saddler. If you want to go on win ratio and based on circumstantial situations then Harry Greb may be the greatest fighter who ever lived. Why not enjoy fighters with these brilliant and enigmatic styles and personalties fight it out and enjoy the art form rather than constantly put fighters achievements down after all they are stepping in the ring in-front of thousands of fans and putting their lives and reputations on the line.Posted June 16, 2014 6:31 pm
Sredmond… You are the world’s biggest azzhole…
Everybody knows Lara is my pick… He’s going to beat Canelo if he gets any kind of break from the judges.
I’m not betting on the fight because decisions like Lara-Williams happen to Cuban boxers in Texas… We also had one judge declaring a draw vs Canelo in Floyd’s hometown.Posted June 16, 2014 6:03 pm
Paulie Malignaggi was a feather puncher and Cotto couldn’t stop him.. Hatton stopped him because the idiot in Paulie’s corner, Buddy McGirt, stopped the fight.
Paulie wasn’t hurt at all and he shoved McGirt for stopping the fight.
Porter didn’t just stop Paulie… He destroyed him like he was a 4-round fighter.Posted June 16, 2014 5:59 pm
“Canelo can beat Lara if he fights 10x better than he did against Floyd” YEAH if anyone fights 10x better they will usually win.. YOU did NOT make a pick! is it Canelo or Lara Worm? Stop waffling call out the victor and NO excuses like last time Floyd made a FOOL out of you for choosing Canelo!Posted June 16, 2014 5:59 pm
Thuman takes PLENTY of shots he is NOT defensively elusive what fight were you watching? He is a heavy handed kid but he is NOBODYS virtuoso… AGAIN you keep running all these names at a soon to be 38 year old fighter and you REALLY turned your back on Canelo who you were HUGE on and FACT is that Alvarez took Trouts 0 NOT Lara who fought him STRAIGHT off the loss… By that rationale we should be MORE impressed with Canelo who slaughtered Angulo with no issues after Lara got off 2x and finally busted his face…Posted June 16, 2014 5:57 pm
Canelo could beat Lara if he’s not weight drained and fights 10 times better than he did against Floyd.
He’s got a good left hook which might catch Lara — who maybe is just super good against southpaws because he fought over 80 of them as an amateur. He was robbed blind vs Williams… That was the worst robbery I’ve ever seen… So with another decision like that Canelo could win.
But I don’t see Canelo winning for real… Lara is too slick and fast.Posted June 16, 2014 5:55 pm
Tark are you REALLY saying that Shawn Porter is a BETTER fighter than Miguel Cotto or Canelo Alvarez??? lets be 100% clear! You said Floyd has NEVER faced a boxer like Shawn Porter??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA based on a points win over Devon Alexander and stopping Paulie who had been stopped 2x before! I guess Ricky Hatton was a BIGGER beast than we than ever because he stopped Paulie WELL before Porter and he did it AFTER Mayweather had already KNOCKED him out…! your rationales are ridiculous!Posted June 16, 2014 5:54 pm
Tark, you were VERY pro Canelo and you touted him for beating Trout NOW suddenly you wanna insinuate that he LOST to Canelo? Man you flip flop…. Cotto got defeated by Pacquiao who was fighter of the DECADE, what fighter of that caliber or close did Porter, Brook or Thurman face? especially the 2009 version of Manny Pacquiao… YOU called Cotto an ATG NOW you want to knock him in order to prop up these freaking newbies? Dude you are a SERIOUS Benedict Arnold…Posted June 16, 2014 5:52 pm
Tark, Lara might not get by Canelo are you going on record and stating that Lara is gonna defeat Canelo?????Posted June 16, 2014 5:49 pm
“TJ is a good-old-time nostalgist”
That explains a lot!! lolPosted June 16, 2014 5:48 pm
Just so you know
Tark, would you consider that if Canelo was to beat Lara then the Porter v Brook fight would become a fight were the winner should face Mayweather? Neither the winner of Lara v Canelo nor Porter v Brook would be ready for a September fight so who does that leave? Not much out there other than the obvious one which isn’t going to happen.Posted June 16, 2014 5:45 pm
Andrade calling Floyd out???
Andrade needs to concentrate on Lara. If he beats him, and that’s a long shot, he could challenge Floyd. But Andrade is better than DLH at 154. Tom Kaczmarek handed in an OFFICIAL scorecard that had Oscar beating Floyd — something Floyd’s father agreed with. The idiot still says Oscar beat Floyd.Posted June 16, 2014 5:44 pm
Sredmond says.., “Canelo, Guerrero, Maidana and Cotto are FAR more established at the World Class level than Thurman, Brook or Porter.”
More established??? By beating whom??? Who did they beat??? Cotto lost badly to Pacquiao… Canelo lost to Trout according to a lot of people… Guerrero didn’t beat anybody good, and had a loss to a nobody.
And they’re all far more punchable than Lara.. Porter.. Thurman.. or Brook… Lara mastered Trout like he was a 4-round fighter… Thurman just needs a chance… Brook has an opportunity with Porter in a fantastic matchup such as Floyd has never been in.
To say nothing of Pacquiao… who Floyd admitted he doesn’t want to face.Posted June 16, 2014 5:33 pm
Tark, Andrade is calling out Floyd too, guess Mayweather had better face him too or he is “ducking” right???Posted June 16, 2014 5:33 pm
So beating Garcia and Peterson at 140 would qualify Algieri to fight Mayweather at 147? guys would say Floyd is picking on a small guy and you KNOW this… You are a LOON…Posted June 16, 2014 5:29 pm
Tark, NOW you are calling Ortiz “A Chump” before he fought FMJ after beating Berto you felt he had a shot and discussed him in the context of “Terry Norris vs Ray Leonard” do you recall this? you backed off giving him the nod but you did NOT deem him “A chump” how is Guerrero “A Chump” he beat a BETTER fighter than Brook or Thurman ever did at WW and the guy was an underdog when he did it..SOOOOOOOOO if Guerrero who won titles in more than one weight class is a chump then what is Kell Brook???Posted June 16, 2014 5:28 pm
Tark, you TOTALLY also ignore the business reality that Showtime is not gonna stage events with guys that they think they cannot sell ie Thurman, Brook or Porter… They have NO compelling win that makes them bankable to play B side to Mayweather…Maidana scored a BIG upset of a guy who had a name (Broner) beating Paulie at this point is not gonna get Porter in the ring with Floyd, we saw the best Malignaggi years ago and we all know he cannot punch to save his life…Posted June 16, 2014 5:24 pm
The best boxers before Floyd Mayweather Jr were probably Salvador Sanchez… Gene Tunney… Willie Pep… Eder Jofre… Jack Johnson… Larry Holmes… and a few others … Certainly not Sugar Ray Robinson — who lost to some very slow and soft punchers.
Reporter.., “Who’s the best fighter in the world?”
Sugar Ray Robinson.., “Willie Pep.”
Even Robinson knew he wasn’t TBE. You never heard Floyd give that answer.Posted June 16, 2014 5:23 pm
Tark, SUDDENLY you deem Kell Brook, Shawn Porter and Keith Thurman as “The best possible opponents” well how did they ATTAIN this stature so quickly when JUST 6 months ago I NEVER heard you selling these fighters as the men Floyd must beat? Your INFLATED perception of them which does NOT jibe with the public at large is a construct in your own brain.. Everyone knows that Pac vs May was the fight that people wanted to see but these other characters are just the latest names you invented!! That’s why you TODAY posted that in 2 fights Chris Algieri could be ready for a Mayweather shot! Your bar is LOW, Canelo, Guerrero, Maidana and Cotto are FAR more established at the World Class level than Thurman, Brook or Porter… What Prime World Class fighters has Thurman or Brook defeated? Champions? you wanna trot out Porter are you selling Paulie as a PRIME World Class threat? Man pleasePosted June 16, 2014 5:22 pm
Hafidh — TJ is a good-old-time nostalgist…
Smith was a great fighter… but not a great defender…and he never faced a MASTERFUL boxer — to my knowledge… or am I wrong?Posted June 16, 2014 5:16 pm
TJ says…, “Roger knows. Snr knows and deep down Jnr knows … Roger Mayweather has told me on more than one occasion that the greatest fighter of all time is Walker Smith.”
Then why did Walker Smith get the living shlt beat out of him by Ralph Jones??? And why did he never want a rematch with Jones??? Because Jones was too strong and slick for him on the inside.
And I’ll tell you something else… Roger has been knocked out so many times he only knows what day it is on a good day — or Roger would know that gettng stopped by feather punching and slow as molasses Joey Maxim — and getting beaten up by Ralph Jones (who lost his five (5) previous fights — does NOT qualify Walker Smith as the GOAT.Posted June 16, 2014 4:59 pm
“Roger Mayweather has told me on more than one occasion that the greatest fighter of all time is Walker Smith Jnr. And always will be Walker Smith Jnr.“
So what??? That is JUST HIS opinion!!!Posted June 16, 2014 4:54 pm
@ Graeme.., Because Brook is a very good boxer and puncher.
Much better than Hatton… Khan… Guerrero… Ortiz… and some of the other chumps Floyd fought … or is trying to fight.Posted June 16, 2014 4:50 pm
But he doesn’t seem to want to face the best available opponents anymore… and if he wants to differentiate himself from previous ATGs … to go down as the real GOAT he has to change his attitude 180 degrees and fight Lara, Pac, and Porter.
TARK, Roger Mayweather has told me on more than one occasion that the greatest fighter of all time is Walker Smith Jnr. And always will be Walker Smith Jnr.
Floyd doesn’t believe he is the best ever, I don’t believe it and you don’t believe it. How can he be when the greatest fighters at Welterweight, Jnr Middleweight and even Lightweight have long retired or paths never crossed?
I know you and I disagree on fighters of yesteryear, but believe me Roger knows. Snr knows and deep down Jnr knows.
Most of today’s fighters are not in the same league and never will be as the greats of yesteryear.
Can you imagine PROVODNIKOV vs Aaron Pryor or Chavez Snr on Saturday’s performance? Pacquiao would have boxed his ears off. A guy I know, Terry Marsh would have boxed his ears off and he was a fireman from Basildon.Posted June 16, 2014 4:47 pm
I am NOT hyping Algieri as a Floyd opponent.. There are a dozen guys better than him for Floyd to fight.
However… if Algieri built his resume with wins over Garcia and Peterson he certainly WOULD be a possible opponent.
Is Khan a better opponent after beating Collazo??? Only Floyd thinks so.Posted June 16, 2014 4:46 pm
Tark can i ask why you believe Kell would be a dangerous opponent for Floyd genuinely interested.?Posted June 16, 2014 4:43 pm
Kell Brook, if he beat Shawn Porter, which I don’t believe he can do at this time — would definitely be a logical and very risky fight for Floyd.
Brook would have a more impressive resume if Khan agreed to fight him.. But that’s a joke.. Khan doesn’t want to get murdered by Brook.
Even though it would be a mega bucks domestic fight similar to Froch vs Groves.Posted June 16, 2014 4:41 pm
Tark, YOU said in 2 fights that Algeiri could be worthy of a Floyd Mayweather shot which is utterly preposterous and just more of the way you generate names to THROW out as Floyd opponents… With all the factors that go into someone being a worthwhile opponent for Mayweather what could Algieri who has NEVER been on the World Stage absent his foray against Provo who is a guy that just fought on this level recently, what could he do to earn that shot? At least Austin Trout was a Champ and he upset a HOF fighter like Cotto to move forward… You hand out Mayweather shots like movie flyers SMH….Posted June 16, 2014 4:38 pm
This thread is about Brian Rose and Match Rooms matchmaking why we talking about Algieri and Pacman that fight will never happen the backlash would be too severe.I say Pacman vs Keith Thurman or Danny Garcia.Posted June 16, 2014 4:38 pm
turbo hamster on tequila
Redmond. Don’t present facts to TARK, he can’t see them. It’s like being color blind.
Posted June 16, 2014 4:22 pm
ROFL or ROFTarking!Posted June 16, 2014 4:33 pm
Right… I said Algieri doesn’t deserve a Floyd fight and that is TRUE… And he also doesn’t deserve a Pacquiao fight right now — and THAT was the subject of the article.
But with a couple great wins over guys like Garcia, Matthysse, or Peterson, unlikely as it would be for him to achieve that at this time — seeing where CA is skill wise — he would definitely be a candidate to fight May or Pac if he had a couple of great wins like that.
Nothing inconsistent there.Posted June 16, 2014 4:31 pm
TARK wrote is bringing up posts from years ago. What’s with that?
Like most boxing fans in the world, I wanted to see a May-Pac fight… I tried hard to believe that Floyd was sincere in his negotiation stances, and I’m a huge Floyd fan. Always was. The man could go down as the GOAT if he actually takes risky fights for his last 3 contests.
But it doesn’t look like Floyd wants ANY risk… A lot of ATG’s from the past, such as Leonard, Robinson, and Ali, didn’t always fight the best and slacked off at times. They weren’t at their best for every fight, and suffered losses. Especially when they reached Floyd’s age… Floyd has too much pride to do not be 100% for every fight.
But he doesn’t seem to want to face the best available opponents anymore… and if he wants to differentiate himself from previous ATGs … to go down as the real GOAT he has to change his attitude 180 degrees and fight Lara, Pac, and Porter.Posted June 16, 2014 4:23 pm
turbo hamster on tequila
Redmond. Don’t present facts to TARK, he can’t see them. It’s like being color blind.Posted June 16, 2014 4:22 pm
turbo hamster on tequila
TARKish as a language has no word for lie but 43 words for excuse and 27 for obfuscation.Posted June 16, 2014 4:20 pm
Tark this is what you said….
Algieri does’t deserve a Floyd fight off this showing. He needs to build his resume for at least 2 more fights.
I dont think Brian Rose vs Demetrius Andrade is anywhere near the same as Kell Brook vs Shawn Porter the fight against Robles was just a keep busy fight against a tough kid to keep Kell sharp he has beaten Senchenko, Carson Jones, Matthew Hatton, Rafal Jackiewicz, Hector saldivia and an other host of fighters at domestic and European level so i think Kell is definitely ready for the shot i think Porter is a tougher test than any of these fighters but i believe Kell can win this fight. Brian Rose beat a very legitimate and dangerous opponent in Javier Maciel and also stopped Joachim Alcine and Ko’d a shot Vivian Harrris. I believe these wins and winning the Lonsdale belt outright gave him experience enough to try and win a world title he was just badly outclassed by a far superior fighter but hats off for anyone getting in the ring and there was no way brian was going to quit so give him his props for trying just a level too far. People love putting these conspiracy theories and negative spins on boxing just enjoy it.Posted June 16, 2014 4:12 pm
“Algieri doesn’t deserve a Floyd fight off this showing. He needs to build his resume for at least 2 more fights” . . . “Who is Algieri gonna beat in 2 fights to make him eligible for an FMJ fight 7 pounds north of where he beat Ruslan?” Tark is apparently referring to “Ws” over the likes Senchenko(?) or Matthew Hatton(?). these are the two most prominent names on Kell Brook’s ring-resume whoTark has been insisting Mayweather been avoiding in favor of soft-touches(?) like Cotto, Guerrero, Canelo, and Maidana. however, Algieri isn’t challenging “Money”. he’s making himself available to Pacquiao* who diligently avoids fighters with Algieri’s style lest he be “upset” like Provodnikov. based on styles, it’s a toss-up bout between Algieri and Manny*, which means too much potential risk for Punkuiao* to Step-Up.
Posted June 16, 2014 4:10 pmPosted June 16, 2014 4:12 pm
Algieri does’t deserve a Floyd fight off this showing. He needs to build his resume for at least 2 more fights.
Posted June 16, 2014 3:35 pmPosted June 16, 2014 4:11 pm
Sredmond.., You’re all screwed up as usual. You can’t read. I said Algieri needed a couple more wins at the world level to be a logical opponent for Pacquiao.
If he beat Danny Garcia and Lamont Peterson, give him Pac. This was not a real convincing win. It was a disputed SD win, and Danny Garcia is ahead of him.
Impressive win only because he was a huge underdog — but he is unbeaten.Posted June 16, 2014 4:02 pm
Brian Rose beat a very genuine 154 pounder in Javier Maciel for the eliminator of course he doesn’t have the skill set of Andrade but he is dangerous he also stopped Joachim Alcine and Ko’d a shot Vivian Harris with a great left hook. I think that these fights along with winning the Lonsdale belt outright are warrant for him getting a shot he was just totally and utterly outclassed by a better fighter and he was badly beaten up but will come again in some domestic and as people have said even European level fights. Look at algieri resume it had absolutely nobody on it other than a shot Mike Araoutis and he’s just beaten Ruslan Provodnikov so upsets do happen also the Lee Purdy fight against Devon Alexander only came about because Kell Brook was injured and he filled in.Posted June 16, 2014 3:55 pm
Sky are playing a silly game dealing with just one promoter.ie Matchroom,There is no competition,quite frankly it was inexcusable of Sky to ditch Hatton Promotions,and people have short memories.Posted June 16, 2014 3:48 pm
Tark you said Fights should be “Logical” yet on the other thread you said that Algieri needs 2 more fights to be ready for Floyd Mayweather?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA How exactly does Algieri go from outpointing Provo to being a Mayweather Candidate??? Man you are such a NUTCASE…Algieri has spend 36 mins at the World Level against a limited slugger and now all he needs is 2 fights to face the best in the World?Posted June 16, 2014 3:42 pm
Boxer…, Floyd fought everyone who was available.. Tszyu was on the self with injuries for 2 years, and then lost to Hatton … Williams lost to Carlos Quintana at a point that fight could have been made … Cheato never beat anyone, couldn’t even beat Williams when he was probably cheating. Plus he only beat Cotto by cheating—the rematch and Mosley fight proved it … Floyd challenged Mosley and De La Hoya when they were both 154-pound champions and Floyd was a Lightweight. They wouldn’t fight Floyd … Pacquiao could have had a Floyd fight by agreeing to reasonable terms, and he didn’t have a chance anyway…
Posted June 29, 2013 4:37 pmPosted June 16, 2014 3:07 pm
Just so you know
I know where your coming from James but for a lot of these guys it would put them out of pocket to go and fight on an undercard over in the States to get a real test and it takes good money to get decent barometers of a fighters level to travel to the UK. Theophane had almost the right idea but waited too long to come back and never really maneuvored himself into a title opportunity.Posted June 16, 2014 2:57 pm
It’s possible to build an impressive—or even an undefeated record—of 25 or 30 fights for almost any physically tough athlete out there. He doesn’t have to have any boxing skills.
All you do is scout soft, non-athletic, chinless incompetents on boxrec and youtube … and hype your guy up in the media as he bowls them over.
Brian Rose is one of the worst technicians I’ve ever seen in a boxing ring.
A gifted trainer could teach Rose more in a week than he’s learned in his whole career. He has no idea in the world how to get a lead off against anyone with skills. His only prayer is to wait, and hope his opponent gets so careless that he gets a miraculous opening … and that he’s ready to throw a KO shot when that unlikely event happens. That’s a one-in-a-million shot.
I don’t call that a fight… Andrade-Rose was a brutal mugging.
Boxing should be about logical matchups and competition – not savage beatings.Posted June 16, 2014 2:55 pm
I’ve said numerous times, including in this article that I don’t begrudge any fighter the shot or the payday. The problem runs much deeper than Brian Rose Saturday night, but the way our fighter’s are built up in general needs looking at. I could only guess at the record of UK fighters fighting abroad for a World title, but I know for a fact it’s not pretty. It’s definitely something that needs addressing.
Kell Brook for example is going from fighting Alvaro Robles at a catchweight, to fighting Shawn Porter for a World Title. Hardly great preparation for one of our next in line.
Hope it works out.Posted June 16, 2014 2:46 pm
A TOTAL JOKE. MOVE ON.Posted June 16, 2014 2:24 pm
Just so you know
I know Rees has held a world title I’m referring to his recent fight with Broner.Posted June 16, 2014 2:22 pm
Just so you know
For every Khan there’s a Jennings, for every Froch a Rees and for every Burns there’s a Rose. Some step up to the plate and take their shot and some get exposed as just not being good enough but if Rose had been matched harder sooner it is doubtful even then he would have given Andrade a test but more likely would have been defeated, lost his ranking and missed out on his big week in the States and career high payday. Guys like Rose and Barker before him have not been earning fortunes up to this point and have families to provide for, Barker made no secret of the fact that after he won the IBF he was going after the most cash available. I don’t like the monopoly that Matchroom currently have in the UK but Eddie Hearn should not be criticised for giving guys the opportunity to make as much in one fight as they have in their previous ten. I also think he know the fighters that have a title win in them and those that need to take the pay days.Posted June 16, 2014 2:02 pm
It’s good to hear your comments and whilst I said nothing changes, same cr*p, different whip hand, your piece is a lot better than some incumbent writers on here and has come at boxing from a fresh perspective. Good piece and keep it up and don’t get dragged into writing about you know who, just to get loads of rubbish responses.
Getting a mandatory position these days is a reflection on how good and how well your promoter can bend the ears of the organisations, rather than how good the boxer actually is or who he’s fought. I remember one organisation had a DEAD boxer as it’s number one contender. And he’d been dead for a while. It’s all politics.
James Degale has actually fought something like 4 eliminator fights including May 31st and he deserves a title shot.Posted June 16, 2014 1:59 pm
A ranking without the resume is just a number.
Just because you’ve fought for a mandatory shot, doesn’t automatically make you prepared for the eventuality. It’s just a position.
Matchroom specifically are filling local arena’s with single names, rather than full fights. These mismatches to me are detrimental to the fighters development on the long run. They’re also kidding casual fans into believing these are competitive matches.
I’m just venting, Matchroom do a lot well. But as well as accepting compliments, they’re also open to criticism.
They’re not the first, won’t be the last. Not the only offenders, but currently the main culprits.
Also, just because something is traditional and a process has been carried out for years gone by doesn’t mean it should be accepted for eternity.Posted June 16, 2014 1:22 pm
Guys like Rose will never be good enough for world level. But getting them fights like this gives them some exposure and a nice payday, and won’t prevent them boxing on and winning at their natural level (British and potentially European).Posted June 16, 2014 1:10 pm
How do you get title fights without getting the ranking? If Rose had won you’d be praising Matchroom for not being afraid of seeing their cash cows get beat. I personally think fighters need those experiences to gauge where they are and learn from it. As the previous poster said, frank warren got his fighters the weakest champions in the division and lived off the defences. Look at Cleverly, he was always a paper champ and pretending otherwise is more damaging in the long runPosted June 16, 2014 1:08 pm
This author writes:
‘The obsession with having their boxers fighting eliminators for mandatory positions to World Title’s is a great way of manoeuvring and forcing a governing bodies hand, but a ranking without a legitimate resume is JUST a ranking.’
A certain promoter who is now under fire did the same thing with his star fighters including Calzaghe who got to fight mandatory guys who no one had ever heard of before or after they fought Calzaghe.
Nothing has changed except the dominant promoter has been challenged and is now in decline, just as he ousted the likes of Duff, Barrett, Lawless and Astaire, he now feels the cold win of change on his back. But, he is fighting back any way he can and finally after all these years is now trying to give the punter the fights he has been asking for the best part of 20 years.
Nothing changes. Same cr*p, different whip hand.Posted June 16, 2014 10:38 am