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@ Prince…, You’re a jerk who refuses to check out the facts.. The cuts were caused by Lewis’s fouls and were clearly intentional.. You go to the scorecards if they’re intentional or NOT…but you’re a blind idiot if you can’t see they were intentional from the video record.

The first nick was clearly from an intentional thumb strike.. watch it in slow motion.. The 3 big slashes in the same direction on Vitali’s face were caused by a raking swipe with the palm of Lewis’s glove as Vitali was held in a headlock.. Lewis even rubbed the palm of his glove right in Vitali’s face.. Referee Lou Moret was bought. That’s the only explanation because he never called a foul..

Moret is just a dirty referee… He also refereed the Berto-Guerrero fight — and didn’t call a single foul with over 100 fouls committed.. During that fight Guerrero was holding and hitting Berto with impunity, when Max Kellerman shouted, “SHADES OF LENNOX LEWIS” to loud laughter from the other members of the HBO crew… That shows you conclusively that Lewis was noted for FOULING!!!!! … and that Lou Moret was known for not calling them as he was the referee in both fights.

Posted April 28, 2014 12:38 am 


Squared idiot! You twist and turn arguments in your favor, you twisted freak! Earlier you were saying LL fouled intentionally, now you say it doesn´t matter if it is accidental or intentional. Vitali was beaten up that night and was hit with punches like never before or thereafter because of the caliber of opponent he was facing. Of course we all would have loved to see a rematch, but it does not change the fact that he was beaten up.

Posted April 27, 2014 3:50 am 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Princess: You’ve demonstrated once again that you’re an absolute idiot and really don’t much about boxing at all. When a thumb strike leads to an injury serious enough to stop a fight, it DOESN’T MATTER ONE DAMN BIT whether or not it was intentional. The exact same rule applies to headbutts!

It was still NOT a legal, clean blow anyway you look at it — whether intentional or not — and therefore, the fight should’ve definitely gone to the cards when the fight was stopped. (Keep in mind that LL had never sliced-up another opponents face like that throughout his career.) And Vitali was clearly leading on the official scorecards 4-2, so should’ve won the fight. It’s actually so simple that any dim-witted mental midget should be able to comprehend and accept it.

Lewis NEVER once spoke about retirement before the VK fight; in fact he was quoted as saying, “I’m like a fine wine…I only get better with age” a few months before. LL even tried to get another BIG $$$ fight with Tyson after he lost to VK, so really didn’t want to retire. He didn’t decide to retire until the WBC gave him an ultimatum: either give VK the much needed rematch or we’re going to strip you of the title.

So, LL decided to pass up a gigantic $50 MILLION payday instead of fighting VK again. Why??? Please explain why he DUCKED the rematch like a coward, considering you Brits are claiming he stopped VK with perfectly legal punches and was well on his way to turning the tides and dominating the fight.
You won’t explain it because you can’t do it!!!

Posted April 26, 2014 7:02 pm

Vitali Klitschko is another one of those active fighters that when discussing him there’s no middle ground. On one side of the debate there’s the faction out there who contends he’s nothing more than a big stiff and is fortunate that he fights in one of the more pedestrian heavyweight generations of the modern era. The other side insist that he’s one of the greatest heavyweight champs of all time.

As is the case with most boxing/sports debates both sides are over-stated. I’ll weigh in and say Vitali Klitschko is definitely not a stiff and can in fact fight. No, he’s not the greatest heavyweight champ ever, but he’d be a handful for many past greats from John L. Sullivan up through Lennox Lewis. And if you think any of the greats between Sullivan and Lewis could’ve just shown up on fight night and walked right through him, you’re wrong.

Posted April 26, 2014 4:53 pm 

Wikipedia extract on LEWIS vs klitschko

Though Klitschko came into the fight as the underdog, he was able to get off to a great start in the fight. Klitschko was the aggressor through the first two rounds and landed many hard shots to the head of Lewis, winning both rounds on all three judge’s scorecards. In the second round, Klitschko was able to stagger Lewis with two hard right hands that opened a cut under Lewis’ left eye. In the third round, Lewis came out aggressively and landed a strong right hand within the first 10 seconds that opened up a deep cut above Klitschko’s left eye. Despite his injury, Klitschko fought a close round with Lewis as the two fighters traded jabs and power punches throughout the round though Lewis was able to win the round on the scorecards. Klitschko rebounded to take round four in which both fighters appeared to be fatigued. In round five, Lewis landed several consecutive hard punches to Klitschko’s ribs with his right hand while in a clinch with Klitschko, with HBO commentators disagreeing on the legality of the punches. By the time round five had ended, the condition of Klitschko’s eye had grown worse, with the corner camera broadcasting the severe open wound, but he was nevertheless allowed to continue into round six. Lewis took advantage of Klitschko’s impaired vision to land a monstrous uppercut in the sixth round. By now both fighters looked exhausted, often staggering after coming together. Between rounds six and seven, it was determined by the ringside doctor that the damage to Klitschko’s eye had become too severe and the fight was stopped. Because Klitschko’s injury was a result of punches from Lewis, Lewis was named the winner of the fight by technical knockout.[6] Klitschko was ahead 58-56 on the scorecards with two judges giving Lewis only rounds three and six and the other rounds five and six. The crowd in attendance proceeded to boo Lewis and cheer Klitschko, seemingly unhappy with the stoppage.

Posted April 26, 2014 4:44 pm 


Tony TT Galento.., Try to think for a change. I’ll go slow

It WASN’T a DQ guy… It was a stoppage due to cuts…

If illegal contact—intentional or unintentional—contributed to the cuts in question, you go to the scorecards. VK Wins unanimous TD.

Posted April 26, 2014 4:10 pm 


Lewis didnt land that many clean punches either. He was getting badly outscored stats wise

Posted April 26, 2014 3:22 pm 


Prince you’re an idiot. Lewis hit Klitschko with a thumb strike. It sure as hell looked intentional, but even if it wasn’t you go to the scorecards. Try to get your brain in gear here stupid ass and wrap it around the following concept.

For the same reason you go to the scorecards for accidental headbutts. You doofus moron. Got it yet?

Posted April 26, 2014 3:19 pm 


Assyrian God says.., “As for Lewis playing outside the rules against Vitali, so what?”


It means the fight goes to the scorecards like Ward-Kessler did… Vitali wins a UNANIMOUS TECHNICAL DECISION!!!! since Vitali did a better job of boxing and it was a BOXING MATCH!!!!

Posted April 26, 2014 3:13 pm 


And besides, earlier you were saying that video shows it all, now you say it doesn´t show all the other illegal tactics that Lewis was applying. That just shows that you are an unresonable fanboy who can´t take it that his beloved idol was whipped. I guess you would call it illegal that Klitschko was hit with so many clean punches like never before and thereafter. Your beloved Ukrainian was whipped and got the beating of his life in that fight! Deal with it, scumbag!

Posted April 26, 2014 2:17 pm 


Squared Idiot, you are just talking nonsense, and Forrest Gump appears bright compared to you. Look at the fight brainless and then you will see that it was not intentional, Klitschko leaned away and was henceforth caught with the edge, this is really not difficult to see unless you are blind, stupid or don´t want to see it. Keep living in your sad world, subhuman scum!

Posted April 26, 2014 2:11 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Princess: When a boxer throws a grazing strike using the inside edge of his glove, what gets in the way??? His thumb of course! This is not rocket science, Mr. Forrest Gump — or should I say Bubba.

Believe it or not, a highly accurate striker like LL, with close to 25 years of amateur and pro experience, knows how to thumb and/or “lace” an opponent’s face whenever he wants to. I only boxed for a few years at amateur level and was already skilled enough to thumb/”lace” an opponent’s face to try to blind and/or cut him.

The BIG difference maker here is that LL whips his fist in an outward bowing motion — away from VK’s head — while grazing his eye with his thumb and inside edge of his right glove. If you were more knowledgeable about boxing, you’d know that type of unusual, outward bowing motion is a sure sign of an intentional thumb strike.

Of course this particular video does not show LL’s other illegal tactics, wherein he held VK with his left arm and raked the cut with the palm of his right glove. That’s what tore the cut open wider and deeper, made it significantly worse, and ultimately led to the stoppage.

So really then, LL used a few different illegal blows and fouls to cheat his way to a narrow victory on a technicality. The cut above the eye that stopped the fight was NOT caused by legal, clean blows. Now what does that all mean to you, Brightboy???

LL never threw rights with that type of grazing, whipping outward motion, so that tells me he did it intentionally because he was losing the fight and desperate.

Posted April 26, 2014 1:40 pm 


Lion King, it seems there is a conspiracy theory for literally every thing these days. If you slow down the same replay and look in the bottom left corner you can see the lunar landing astronauts stepping off their module too in front of the studio cameras!

Posted April 26, 2014 9:37 am 


@squared idiot non-sense talk, so I watched the video which only shows that it was the edge of the glove. That happens in fights but how do can you see it was intentional? You can´t and it wasn´t as Lewis was coming forward aggressively and Klitschko leaned away but was still caught but with the edge of the glove.
You must feel pretty stupid now recommending a video that does not show more than what people already know. Imbecile!

Posted April 26, 2014 9:36 am 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Assyrian: You couldn’t be any more wrong about what really went down in this historic fight. You’re just taking that position because you’re a Brit and see it a source of great national pride, as you consider LL to be one of your countrymen. But I don’t believe you’re being honest with yourself or others because you’re smarter than this.

Please watch this slow motion video that PROVES beyond any reasonable doubt that the deep, jagged cut that stopped the fight was caused by an illegal blow (thumb strike) from Lewis. Notice how LL whips his fist in an outward bowing motion — away from VK’s head — while grazing his face with his thumb and the inside edge of his right glove. LL never threw rights with that type of grazing, whipping outward motion, so that tells me he did it intentionally because he was losing the fight and desperate. It’s NOT the first time LL had been caught employing dirty, cheating tactics in the ring.

Just go to YouTube and search for “Vitali Klitschko Cut Controversy.” The slow-mo clip is replayed more than 20 times and is 100% percent EVIDENCE that the cut was NOT caused by a clean, legal blow. If you refuse to watch this and respond accordingly, that tells us that you’re either lying or are not willing to admit the plain and simple truth. I’m formally challenging you to watch it closely and defend it!

Posted April 26, 2014 5:24 am 


Assyrian God has the big beat.

Posted April 26, 2014 4:50 am 


SANITY says.., “Using TARKs logic Ken norton should have killed Foreman . After all Ali easily beat George while Notton gave Ali hell.”

Norton beat the living crap out of Ali, but he had a weak chin and was KO’d 4 times… Foreman was a big puncher and tapped that chin … Vitali DIDN’T have a weak chin. Nobody ever knocked him down, and he has the 2nd highest KO ration in Heavyweight Championship History.

SANITY says.., “Using TARKs logic Ike Ibeabuchi is a much better fighter than Vitali because unlike Vitali he kayoed Chris Byrd. The usual spin.”

Vitali was beating Byrd by a mile and lost because of a shoulder injury…

Nobody knows how good Ibeabuchi would have gotten if he had a chance to develop.. He only had 20 fights.. He might have wound up the greatest heavyweight ever if he wasn’t incarcerated for 20 years … Ike looked pretty damned good versus Byrd, who boxed the piss out of David Tua… Ibeabuchi’s hand speed was unbelievable vs Byrd while Ike was working him on the ropes.

Posted April 25, 2014 7:35 pm 


Using TARKs logic Ken norton should have killed Foreman . After all Ali easily beat George while Notton gave Ali hell.

Posted April 25, 2014 5:48 pm 


Using TARKs logic Ike Ibeabuchi is a much better fighter than Vitali because unlike Vitali he kayoed Chris Byrd. The usual spin ……

Posted April 25, 2014 5:47 pm 


Assyrian God says.., “Tark – Wlad could fight bigger men true, but Vitali rarely did. And neither were busting a gut trying to get a Valuev fight. Vitali did struggle with Hoffman, Sanders and Lewis. Lewis being behind on the cards does not mean anything really, many fighters win from behind. I remember seeing Herol Graham literally outclassing Julian Jackson, humiliating him, before walking onto one huge hail mary.”

1. Vitali and Wlaimir both tried repeatedly to get a Valuev fight. Valuev didn’t want to get his head torn off.

2. Being behind on the cards means EVERYTHING!!! … If the fight went to the scorecards like it SHOULD have, and WOULD have if there was any other referee but Lou Moret, Lewis loses a technical UD.

3. Who was more likely to walk into a Julian Jackson like right hander??? Lewis who was knocked out TWICE??? Or Vitali, who was NEVER even knocked down once in his entire boxing career???

4. Hasim Rahman couldn’t knockout China-chinned Oleg Maskaev (knocked out 7 times) out, but blew Lewis away with one shot.

Posted April 25, 2014 3:13 pm 

Nino Benvenuti

Vitali K ducks big guys! Forget guys like McCline, Grant and McBride, theyre stiffs anyway, slow as hell. Lennox was a big guy with skills, power and speed. Hoffman gave Vitali hell, and he was slow and crude, Lennox beat Vitali up bad. By the close Vitali had no gas left in the tank and his power had drained to Malignaggi level. Tark wants to try and rewrite history, problem is, history is the past, it happened, get over it, Vitali K lost. Wlad will probably duck Fury, he may even duch Wilder and Price. Wach was ok to fight, he was slow as a slug.

Posted April 25, 2014 12:59 pm 


Sanity, Assyrian God and Tony TT Galento are one of the few good posters here unlike ReTar(d)K, Mrs Adrain and ugly BEARS.

Posted April 25, 2014 6:49 am 


The whole world was excited at Vitali’s comeback. Hell’s Bells rang out as some of the past greats gave praise in holographic homage and the hairs stood up on our necks as the fighters entered the ring. The bell was rung for the fight to begin…….
The excitement ended, right there and then. ZZZZZ We all fell asleep. What an utter anti-climax for the greatest prize in sport.

Posted April 24, 2014 8:41 pm 

TARK = Mother Ducker.

TARK is a mother ducker. He continually calls fighters for ducking other fighters, but when McMurphy even offered to travel to a place of TARK’S own choice, in front of TARK’S home crowd at a time of TARK’S own choosing, guess what? TARK pulled the ultimate duck and went quiet and disappeared from ESB for a couple weeks last summer. TARK always yaps about his 50 years in the bizz, but we got longer memories and McMurphy was fair in only asking for his expenses and a neutral guy to film the session, but as per, TARK ducked before he got plucked!

Posted April 24, 2014 8:33 pm 


vitaly fought briggs at what 40? and post how many injuries? and gave his skull a fracture like he hit briggs with a bat and briigs stayed in the hispital for amonth. vitaly is being belittled by you? while briggs won round one or 2 of lennox and gave all his fans a scare as briggs dropped lewis a$$ to the bottom rope in round one or two which should have been ruled a knocked down as theropes held lennox up. lennox dropped to the bottom rope and hooked the top ropes with both arms. lol. vitalys fight was more one sided domination with briggs and a worse beat down.

vitaly is old and all his fans noticed he had lost a lot especially in the legs before he even faced chisora. a guy he smoked with one arm and even dan raphael called it in round 4 saying vitaly must have hurt his arm. then u belittle 40+ vitaly for his one armed beating o chisora? lennox got smoke in every phase of the game against vitaly. try andfeebly glorify cuts. u cant. the whole reality of what lennox said and did before the fight and after says it all. VITALY FORCED LENNOX OUT LIKE A BIATCH TO A CHORUS OF BOO’s. vitaly owns lennox departure from boxing

Posted April 24, 2014 8:25 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Brother Squared Circle… I should create a Tier 1 – B, eh? A completely new tier between 1 and 2 as by way of an additional reward system for those of you down in Tier 2? That’s an interesting proposition. To be perfectly honest that’s something that had never crossed one’s mind before. Even though you guys are basically living the life of Riley down there on Tier 2, Party Central 24/7/365, I guess it must get a little stagnant knowing that that’s as good as it’s ever going to get. Obviously there’s a huge gulf between Tier 1 and Tier 2, and whilst one does freely admit to it getting a little lonely up here on occasion, even though it’s basically absolute bliss/vulture heaven, one does feel that the creation of a mid tier between 1 and 2 could possibly detract from one’s greatness a little and lead to a lack of respect and due reverence being displayed towards one’s self by certain elements. I’m going to have to mull this over for a while. Leave this with me for a few weeks, Brother. I don’t want to rush to any hasty decisions about this.

Posted April 24, 2014 7:40 pm 


That is a great point Assyrian and one I had never thought of . When you examine Vitali’s record it stinks. Ed Mahone typifies his opponents. Vitali has faced a lot of ex cruiserweights like Adamek and Gomez and a bunch of shortish types.

Vitali is actually pretty inexperienced as far as hard competitive fights go. He managed to lose the only two he had. He pretty much has no experience at being out of his comfort zone or of the kind of rough infighting Lewis was bringing to the table .

Wladimir has a FAR superior resume than Vitali , the only superior accomplishment Vitali has over Wlad are wins over two guys Wlad never defeated. Sanders and Puritty.

For mine Vitali was always the relief pitcher , brought in to face guys his brother wouldnt rematch. Historically Vitali only has one claim . His ability to fight well at an advanced age.

As an aside he only has a 79 inch reach. He is a lanky guy with surprisingly short arms .

Posted April 24, 2014 6:09 pm 


I disagree with a lot of what Assyrian God writes but in this case he is absolutely correct. Vitali was toast .

Posted April 24, 2014 5:55 pm 


Rumour has it that Tark was Tommy Burns cutman when Burns went to Sydney Australia to defend against Jack Johnson :)

Posted April 24, 2014 5:54 pm 


Poor old Tark has lost his marbles . That post with the quotes from Holmes , the invented sparring scenario etc is something only a senile old fool would post.

Posted April 24, 2014 5:51 pm 


True Bears. The loon is posting to himself.

Posted April 24, 2014 5:27 pm 



Posted April 24, 2014 5:25 pm 


citizens arrest and mcmurphy equals one dude having a concersation with himself

Posted April 24, 2014 5:25 pm 


TARK was holding the spit bucket for Jess Willard and he was filming it too with his home camera. He was also the joint promoter and made a bundle betting on the exact result of the fight and he made a citizen’s arrest on Johnson, who was on the J Edgar Hoover list for running the state lines with a white woman. Yeah, and pigs might fly!

Posted April 24, 2014 3:10 pm 


tark at the johnson willard fight. LMAO.

Posted April 24, 2014 2:44 pm 



I’m sure more people would tune in and pay to see you whoop that old fool, TARK’S behind than on most of the recent PPV offerings.
TARK, or Bark as he is called as he is all bark and no bite – is due a beat down or three.
This fossilised idiot thinks he knows more than all of the fight historians and writes utter baloney about some of the greatest fighters who ever lived.
Yet, he will hide behind his octagenarian bones to avoid the whupping he so thoroughly deserves when these greats confront him.
McMurphy, we will do our best to find this fraud and drag him before you so you can kick his dentures down his throat and gag him, permanently.
Then, I will perform a citizen’s arrest on his tired, old, carcass.

Posted April 24, 2014 1:59 pm 


Yes, TARK was there. I remember him saying he took his grandson with him to see that one.

Posted April 24, 2014 12:05 pm 


The loonies escaped from the asylum again.

Posted April 24, 2014 11:53 am 


tark.were you at the johnson willard fight.

Posted April 24, 2014 11:42 am 


You lying son of a no good two-bit whore TARK. I never showed up? ha. Priceless. Sure I didn’t. Why don’t you tell everyone what really went don’t down, Münchhausen. You sent me on a wild goose chase to the middle of nowehere. I flew all the way from Providence looking to put some beatdown on your ass and wound up on my Jack Jones by a lump of rock smack bang in the middle of a desert on the outskirts of Montana.

I’m still up for paddling your rump al fresco, only this time we’ll do it properly. No funny business. I want dates, times and locations and some kind of legally binding guarantee that you won’t welch out again like the yellow son of b.i.t.c.h you are.

Posted April 24, 2014 10:58 am 


TARK says,
“Nobody kicks my ass fruitball… I would knock you cold with one right to the face. And all the plastic surgeons in pukesville, where you’re from, couldn’t piece it back together again. You must be the same turd who claimed to be McMurphy and never showed up.”

TARK, you are either as old as Larry Merchant, or you are a liar? Which one is it, Bark? You claim to have 50 years in the game as a trainer of champions, yet you think you can beat young men in their primes.

You always say you need to back the percentages. Well, the probability is that if I so choose to I would knock the silly little head off your shoulders quicker than you can say TARK is a w$nk£r, which is clear to everyone.

Citizen’s arrest.

Don’t make me laugh, you jerk.

Posted April 24, 2014 7:02 am 


And about the Ali-Holmes fight… You know damned well Ali fought Leon Spinks when Larry Holmes was the best heavyweight in the world — and then Ali retired without facing the REAL Heavyweight Champion, who was Holmes.

All the time Holmes sparred for Ali he knew he could beat him… In fact Ali told a couple guys that Holmes was the best boxer in the world and fought, “like a big, tall Jimmy Ellis.”

Ali called Ellis the best boxer in the world right after he beat him but said the size difference was something Ellis couldn’t overcome. Ellis fought something like the first 26 of his career fights as a middleweight, fighting Hurricane Carter and guys his size.

As you saw in the film, “When We Were Kings” Holmes would outbox Ali every round for a week. Holmes told a couple friends he really trusted that he could beat Ali easily if they ever fought—but not to breathe a word of that to anybody because sparring for Ali paid really well. Word got back to Ali who didn’t like it.. Ali tried very hard to hurt Holmes one day, but couldn’t.

Holmes was a very clever guy. He immediately sensed from the way Ali was coming at him, that somebody had ratted him out.. Sparring for Ali was a really good gig so Holmes played along and pretended that Ali was getting to him a lot more than he was — but he never let Ali hurt him. Holmes pulled in his offense like he was a bit intimidated—and then Ali really went for him. Nothing was landing hard or hurting Holmes at all, but he didn’t take advantage of any openings Ali was giving him that day because he sensed Ali was pissed as hell. That session solidified the idea in Holmes mind that Ali could never deal with him in a real fight.

They were supposed to box several more rounds but Ali blew his wad. Ali said, “Angie that’s enough sparring for today. I ran a lot more miles this morning to change up my routine.”

Than Ali turned to Holmes and said, “Larry.. Do you still think you can kick my ass?”

Holmes said, “Oh no. Not at all.. Anybody who said that got the story wrong. They’re jealous I’m your main guy for sparring and they are trying to cause dissension.. Everybody knows you’re the best in the business including me.” Holmes said, lying through his teeth.

Posted April 24, 2014 2:53 am 


Sanity says.., “Your post is full of opinion claiming to be fact … A fighter can be old at 22 … Wlad is a young 37.”

You’re fudging numbers again to suit your argument. Wladimir is not 37… You know he’s 38.

And if a fighter is old at 22 he’s got a problem hasn’t he??? He allowed himself to be matched wrong if he gets beaten up that badly that young. You are never chronologically old at 22. A person might be disabled or diseased as a child, but he’s not old. Injuries, disease, disability, or death can happen to babies.

Chronological age is a standard against which to measure behavior, intelligence, etc. Everything I said was based on fact.. The opinions generated are very solid.. Your opinions are nonsense.

Posted April 24, 2014 2:32 am 


I agree Adrian , Lewis has a suspect chin.

Dunno who SRedmond is .

Posted April 24, 2014 1:15 am 


Sanity…, Vitali was beating Byrd by a mile but his shoulder went out in the 2nd round and he feared ruining it.. He had to think about the rest of his career, not just one win if it meant ruining his shoulder.

Byrd was far from the 2nd best Fighter Vitali faced..

Peter, Sanders, Adamek, Gomez, and Arreloa, were too big, strong, and tough for Bryd. The way Wladimir delt with Byrd, even before his makeover by Steward, shows you how easy Byrd would have been for a healthy Vitali.

Vitali won the Lewis fight… Saying he didn’t is like saying Holyfield fought a draw with Lewis, or Bradley beat Pacquiao simpley because those are recorded on the record books … That decision should have gone to the cards because of the illegal contact that caused the cuts..

Ward-Kessler went to the cards… and that’s what you do.

You have to evaluate a boxer by his entire career. Ali said Holmes was nothing and he was going to beat Holmes like a sparring partner.. Holmes won every minute of every round and Ali quit meekly in his corner.. Ali was the same age Wladimir is now, which is not that old.. It was Ali’s 4th defeat — more than either Klitschko suffered, or Lewis suffered.

Posted April 24, 2014 12:32 am 


Uhh sanity ( sredmond ) please come out of the shadow will you?

If wlads sander loss cannot be “forgiven “then Lewis loss to mcall cannot either .
If that “ko” that stands for Lewis against vitally is a thing to brag about
Then have at it and everytime you feel down when you watch Lewis vs klitchko in YouTube go to boxrec and read the “tko “win for Lewis but only that part but do not dare and read beneath that says

” time: 3:00 | referee: Lou Moret | judge: James Jen-Kin 58-56 | judge: Tom Kaczmarek 58-56 | judge: Pat Russell 58-56
WBC heavyweight title
International Boxing Organization heavyweight title
Fight stopped DUE to a Klitschko CUT.” Because you will feel bad and angry again …lol so just look at the part where it says ” tko” lol
Sleep tight

Posted April 24, 2014 12:15 am 


your squirrelly dude. and u did not talk really any boxing in your posts sanity. there weak posts. u have pretty much been obliterated and wlad being young when lost has nothing really to do with it. we know what happened in rematxhes and what would have happened thats why NOONE calls sanders greater than wlad. the POIGNANT fact is wlad was a COMPLETELY different fighter 10 years ago and FAR from the PEAK BEAST MODE he would attain. wlad cs sanders and the peak wlad of today. two obviously completely different fighters. we judge fighters by their stylistic peaks. wlads story is auite unique and he has changed before our eyes more than any fighter i can think of. canelo is another guy who might do something similar. im not gonna repeat myself in all the aspects o wlads technique that has so vastly improved. its obvious when u watch the tape. sanity your not talking boxing at all. i have not heard much anythin related to objective boxing from you. just subjective rationales on why the klitschkos cant be great cause they have some official losses. oh and wlads were untimely to u. why am i even reading your dipsh!t posts. have u anything relevant to add!? something about technique? can u expound on this subjective inference of yours that the book was closed on wlad klitschko over a decade ago when he lost to sanders and brewster?

bahahahahahah! airhead

how about attempting to discuss REAL BOXING METRICS. or at least something subjective that can be backed up like “wlad has heavyweight histories best jab” to me this statement is obvious and has a great deal of supporting evidence. its an interesting subjective statement and asks whos jab would u actually rank better. wlads technique now is so finely honed its unreal. he has surpassed lennox years ago if u ask me.

Posted April 23, 2014 11:38 pm 


The two best fighters Vitali has faced are Lennox Lewis and Chris Byrd . The record books say he lost to both. That alone makes it very hard to rate him as the GOAT.

Posted April 23, 2014 11:16 pm 


Tark was telling us what a great fighter Austin Trout before Lara thrashed him.

Posted April 23, 2014 11:13 pm 


As for Tark he is a spin doctor and a user of semantics. Anyone who uses the Holmes fight in evaluating Ali or the McBride and Danny Williams fight to evaluate Tyson is an idiot.

For the record and to be fair I wouldnt rate Vitali on how crap he looked against Chisora . Vitali is a decade past his best which was around the Lewis fight.

Its like judging Joe Louis on the Marciano fight . The problem with Wlads bad losses are that they came when he was a young fighter. The worst losses in an historic context were Sanders and Brewster. Wlad was a youngster when he lost to Puritty, that can be forgiven when rating him historically. Being kayoed in two rounds by Sanders and in five by Brewster cannot.

Despite your hysteria and inability to read and or differentiate between different posters I actually rate Wlad and Vitali but not as highly as you do.

Posted April 23, 2014 11:11 pm 


The record books say “Lewis KO 6 Klitschko ” , BEARS . You seem to be ignoring that fact.

Your views on the other hand are “opinion ” Bears. Not facts . There is a difference in a court of debate .

You seem very emotional considering the subjects are not members of your immediate family , mate . AI think you need to take a step back.

Those posts are ridiculously long.

Have a nice day :)

Posted April 23, 2014 11:04 pm 


TARK is a bad dude on east side. he does not play with these fools. anybody know what time the wlad fight is on here inthe u.s?

Posted April 23, 2014 10:43 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Thanks TARK! You’ve laid down some great posts here as well. Keep taking these fools to school.

Posted April 23, 2014 10:34 pm 


Princess , hahahahahahahahaha …!!!
Vitaly is not exiting ?? How did you like the Lewis fight ? Sanders ? I am mentioning these two fights that it was competitive , it’s not his fault he wasn’t knocked down left and right by the likes of Williams like Tyson did .
Just say it dude you just can’t stand the whites

Posted April 23, 2014 10:00 pm 


vitaly was just a natural born BEAST of a GOAT. his style of fighting was purely his own. he was not sculpted by a world class trainer. the guy transcended the game in his own boxer brawler style and his boxing “style” ONE OF A KIND. vitaly will always be awesome to go back and watch. i was amazed to see how thoroughly he imposed his style on lennox. i could not believe it. although i forecast vitaly to upset lewis (which i feel he did) i did not think it was gonna be as thorough and in all the metrics. i thought he would hurt and stop lennox. but to dominate compubox, range/gap control, ringgeneralship, aggression, his plus minus ratio, it really showed how effective vitaly was and he continued to improve after the big stage with lenox. dudes the GOAT for so many reasons and accolades. RIP false 60s and 70s ranking and glorification. RIP the glory days of afro american heavyweight championship boxing (im american just trying to be funny with that one)


Posted April 23, 2014 9:26 pm 


sanity- your a joke dude

as soon as vitaly was told he jumped up in protest but thats irrelevant. vitaly did not speak english as the fight obviously indicated. so again sanity what are pulling out of your a$$ now? what happened after the fight with lennox is not subjective like the bs u just spouted.

the timliness with which vitaly got up has no bearing on the fight or what took place afterwords making lewis look a biatch

like i said the story is all there. sadly the best heavy if the 90s went out like a biatch a departure OWNED BY VITALY KLITSCHKO.

lennox demanded independent drs clear vitaly to fight. vitaly did

lennox made him fight johnson and sanders rather than rematch. vitaly did

the world demanded the rematch initial offer to lewis for rematch was 20 million WHOA! lewis would not

his coach steward insisted. lewis would not

everyone is asking lewis when is the rematch. lewis would not fight

lewis tries to fight anyone not named vitaly. wbc says HELL NO, fight vitaly or your stripped.

lennox retires the last sounds he heard was being boo’ed while the guy that forced him out having beaten lennox in every conceivable metric in boxing was cheered.

think vitaly is boring? type vitaly klitschko american debut in you tube. his career is fights like that. when u watch vitaly you watch the GOAT.

the single most unique heavy style in history. the guys style is soo unique and so effective. THE SHOVEL HOOKS! the plus minus ratio! the stoppage rate!!!! but vitalys technique! the way he landed so many punches, the angles and openings he created with lateral movement, footwork, and making his opponents miss. super heavies of the future who cAn move should be studying wlad and vitaly klitschko tape. but like i said style was vitaly is hands down the most unique heavy in history

Posted April 23, 2014 9:13 pm 


Why isnt anyone discussing the “elephant in the room “? The fact that Vitali sat silently , impassively in his corner as the fight was stopped by the Dr. He didnt start protesting for a full 30 seconds later. He didnt want to fight on in my opinion , Lewis landed another tremendous uppercut on Vitali just as the bell ended.

Vitali was hurt by the first one Lewis landed in that round. He had to clinch for the first time in the fight.

Posted April 23, 2014 8:52 pm 


Great posts Bears and Squared Circle…,

Lou Moret refereed both Klitschko-Lewis AND Berto-Guerrero. In both fights tons of fouls, especially grappling and holding and hitting were allowed by Moret. It seemed like Lewis and Guerrero KNEW that no fouls would be called dispite the warnings, because they fouled with impunity, and keep fouling. After the final bell sounded Guerrero threw an additional 20 punches as the bell kept clanging, clanging, and clanging to get him to stop. Berto looked at RG agast and moved away. The referee said nothing. Lewis also punched after the last bell.

An incisive remark was made by Max Kellerman—as Guerrero was holding and hitting Berto with Lou Moret standing there doing nothing about it.., “SHADES OF LENNOX LEWIS!!!” Kellerman shouted to guffaws from the HBO teaam.

Posted April 23, 2014 7:07 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Tony TT Galento: You’re dead wrong, but are taking that silly position because you’re a Brit. Truth is…Lewis was and still is a Canadian who’s parents were from Jamaica. He lived and trained in Canada for many years although he was born in the UK. He chose to represent Canada twice in the ’84 & ’88 Olympics — even though he just as easily could’ve chose to represent GB. The country an athlete chooses to represent in the Olympics says everything about his true, personal allegiance to a nation. Lewis was even Canada’s official flag bearer in the closing ceremony at the ’88 Games.

His decision to fight out of the UK was simply a business decision. He knew the fan base would be much larger and loyal due to roughly twice the population combined with the rich history and popularity of boxing the the UK. Lewis was smart enough to know that those factors would enable him to make much more money throughout the course of his career.

To further support my argument, Lewis has not lived in the UK since shortly after retiring from boxing. He lives in Miami Beach, FL part of the year and spends the rest of his time at his villa in Montego Bay, Jamaica. He considers himself to be Jamaican above all else.

Posted April 23, 2014 6:43 pm 


Vitali was miles ahead of Byrd on the scorecards too… But he suffered a legitimate and very serious rotator cuff tear injury that Byrd had nothing to do with. He needed surgery to correct the problem.

So VK really did lose that fight… But he’s never been outboxed, outpunched, nor has he ever been knocked down or trailing on points ever in his entire career.

Lewis sure as Hell can’t say that since he’s been KTFO twice.

Posted April 23, 2014 6:11 pm 


He didn’t tear up Vitali’s face with legal punches.

He slashed open those cuts with the palm of his right glove while he was holding Vitali in a headlock. He also worked his head and hair into the wounds. Watch the damned video and educate yourself.

Lou Moret was the same referee who let Robert Guerrero foul Andre Berto over a 100 times without calling a single foul…

Max Kellerman said, “SHADES OF LENNOX LEWIS” to loud laughter from the HBO crew—as Guerro was holding hand hitting Berto with impunity with an oblivious Moret looking on. He was recalling the Lewis-Klitschko fight.

The only one gassed was Lewis. Lewis was so desperate he threw a late desperation left hook way after the bell sounded ending the 6th. It was a fluffy punch and showed he was weakening.

He was behind on all cards … and was getting outpunched by a huge margin… If the fight went to the scorecards, which it should have because the cuts were caused by illegal punches and tactics.., Lewis loses UNANIMIOUSLY!!!

Posted April 23, 2014 6:05 pm 


Tom Cribb is on the money …

Posted April 23, 2014 5:59 pm 


Vitali sat meekly in his corner while the Lewis fight was stopped . He had been battered the previous round.

He bravely started protesting once the fight had been stopped and he has a fine command of English. He didnt say a word while the Dr examined his torn up face in the corner before the Dr stopped the fight.

Vitali has form in this area ( the Byrd fight ).

Posted April 23, 2014 5:56 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Correction: “The overrated Ali lost to Leon Spinks (26-17-3 with a pitiful 30% KO ratio) at only 36; then lost every minute of every round to Holmes at just 38.”

Posted April 23, 2014 4:09 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

“Anthony Joshua will beat Wlad in a couple of years time.”

LOL…so what you’re saying is that Wlad has to be 40 years of age, or older, before someone young lion has a legit chance at beating him?

The great Holmes lost to Spinks when he was just 35, and it was all down hill from there. The overrated Ali lost every minute of every round to Holmes at just 36. The great Lewis got outboxed and retired by Vitali when he was only 37.

But guys like PEEJ, Anonymous and Prince make endless excuses for those loses, claiming that they were way past their past their primes — so those losses don’t really count.

Question: Now that Wlad is 38, are you guys going to make the same age-related excuses on behalf of WK if he loses at t his point. Of course not! I rest my case. Thanks for playing boys, but you lose — again. I’ve never once lost a debate/ argument on ESB and never will. I’m still UNDEFEATED after several long years! And this is exactly why Brother Gonzo should seriously consider promoting me to Tier 1 – B (Second Class).

Posted April 23, 2014 4:01 pm 


hw wrestling at its best.

Posted April 23, 2014 3:19 pm 


Adrian, you are now really losing it aren´t you? First you post under my nickname (I assume you wish you were me) and then you post again under your name saying some more nonsense. I tell you once more, I don´t care about the color of a fighter but about how they fight i.e. is it entertaining and beautiful to watch. Klitschko fights boring and it is not beautiful to watch.

Posted April 23, 2014 3:09 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Edit> I think Louis was 6’5”

Posted April 23, 2014 2:49 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Vitali often looks a little gassed even though he’s still full of beans. He has that open mouthed deep breath thing going on, but it doesn’t stop him from subsequently throwing hundreds of punches.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:47 pm 


vitali was gassed after 3 rounds. lmao.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:42 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Edit> Louis was losing the fight (I mean the Vitali fight, not Mavrovac) and had been hurt a couple of times and the crowd could sense the upset in the air

Posted April 23, 2014 2:37 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Well said Gonz. Wise words indeed, Brother. Wise words.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:35 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Please stop with the lies and deceit is all I ask. Speak not with false tongues. Be truthful to yourself and your gods. Those that utter falsehoods and untruths only harm themselves in the long run. Life is a symbiotic relationship. Society is built upon the hard work and cooperation of many, not just one. Lies tear down the fabric of truth for all mankind, again not just one. How can we trust anyone in the house of truth when but a solitary spreader of untruths has infiltrated our ranks?

Posted April 23, 2014 2:34 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn


Posted April 23, 2014 2:28 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn


Posted April 23, 2014 2:27 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Edit>The gruelling physically demading nature of the fight, fighting against such a physically strong opponent as Louis, and fighting on such a big stage for the first time, was also taking it’s toll on Vitali too.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:27 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Edit> Louis weighed 5lbs more than he’d been in his previous fight, and when he trounced the White Bison.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:24 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Lennox Louis was neither fat nor out of shape when he fought Vitali Klitschkov. This is a lie and a false truth which has been propagated by the members of Propagators of False Truths Brigade. Louis weighed 5lbs more than he’d been in his previous fight, when he trounced the White Bison. Just 4lbs more than he weighed when he beat Ollie McCall in their rematch and 6lbs than what he weighed for Dave Tua etc. Louis is a giant man, 6”6 and big boned. He probably curls out dumps that weigh in excess of 5-8lbs. That amount of weight is nothing to a man of his dimensions, hence why contrary to the lies and falsehoods of him looking fat propagated by the Lies and Falsehood Brigade, he didn’t look in the least bit fat.

He was also in very good shape. I know this to be true because associates of mine used to train down at the Lennox Louis gym in Hackney at the time and the reports being relayed from his training camp to his gym over here where that he was looking awesome in training and breaking his PBs. This was later echoed by other sources in an issue of the British boxing periodical Boxing News during the weeks leading up to the fight.

The reasons why he tired had more to do with psychological factors than they did with him not putting the work in in the gym, and of course the fact that he was involved in a very physically gruelling fight against an opponent who was equally, if not even more, physically strong than he was. Both Louis and Vitali are incredibly physically strong men. Louis explained whilst doing commentary for the Bute-Andrade rematch how mentally and in turn then physically draining it is on you when you’re hitting your opponent with your best shots and they just keep on coming, which is one of the main reasons why Bute ran out of gas in the late going against the teak-tough ”Terminator” Andrade in their initial encounter.

Louis said the same thing happened to him in one of his amateur fights, that the psychological pressure of facing an opponent who was able to take his best shots and keep on coming sapped him of all his energy. Most boxing fans are two stupid to realize the psychological aspects of fighting and the effect they can have upon fighters.

Go watch his fight against Mavrovac. Despite being out-weighed by in 2 stone, Mavrovac was made out of pure granite and was able to take everything Louis threw at him and keep coming, applying that constant pressure that can and often is physically and psychologically very draining. Louis was losing the fight and had been hurt a couple of times and the crowd could sense the upset in the air, which wasn’t how it was supposed to go down and obviously all that would’ve only added to the psychological pressure he was already under. The gruelling physical nature of the fight, fighting against such a physically strong opponent as Louis, was also taking it’s toll on Vitali too.

Miguel Conto-Antonio Margarillo I is another good example of this. Louis was tiring badly in the late rounds against Mavrovac. The look of sheer relief on his face when they announced him the winner at end of the fight spoke volumes about how draining a night’s work he’d found it.

This is the best post you will ever read on this subject. I’ll thank you for your compliments regarding the excellence of this post in advance.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:18 pm 


Anthony Joshua will beat Wlad in a couple of years time.

Posted April 23, 2014 1:59 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Vitali outboxed Lewis 4 rounds to 2 and had him stumbling around the ring like a drunken sailor about 3 different times. The cut that stopped the fight was caused by an illegal blow (thumb strike). The cut was further torn open and worsened when Lewis was illegally holding VK and raking the cut with the palm of his glove. All very dirty tactics on LL’s part — and it wasn’t the first time we saw him employ those tactics.

So, it’s clear that the fight should’ve gone to the cards when stopped, and VK would’ve won without question because he was ahead 4-2 on ALL scorecards. The crowd in LA cheered Vitali like the winner and booed Lewis after the fight. The entire boxing world DEMANDED a rematch and it likely would’ve been the richest fight in boxing history. Instead of accepting the rematch (and tens of millions) like any courageous champion would’ve done, the Cowardly Lion fled to Jamaica with his head down and tail between his legs.

It is now widely known throughout the world as “The Duck of The Century” and has tarnished LL’s legacy forever. The truth of the matter is that VK beat LL straight into retirement. LL hit VK with his hardest shots and couldn’t come close to wobbling or hurting him. LL narrowly escaped that fight with a win on a technicality and never intended to fight VK again because he knew he couldn’t beat him. Frankly, LL was scared sh*tless of VK after that fight — and rightfully so.

Posted April 23, 2014 1:39 pm 


Anonymous 15names is old school!!!!an old school bum!!!LOL!!!f@kin clown

Posted April 23, 2014 1:19 pm 

Tom Cribb

Tark, look at Vitali’s face after he was stopped, he looked dejected and beat, slumped in his corner. It was only when some of the crowd started booing that he suddenly got indignant. He KNEW he had lost it.

Posted April 23, 2014 1:01 pm 

Tom Cribb

Its just being ultra- pedantic to examine in minute detail which part of the glove Lewis caught Vitali with, its like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole to make your argument work. If we did that for every fight there was a cut stoppage we would be saying 50% of fighters wouldve won really, its nonsense! lol

Posted April 23, 2014 12:59 pm 

Tom Cribb

Tark the problem there is that Vitali was gassed by the end of the 3rd anyway, and Lewis ripped him apart in the last 2 rounds, he was shot when the fight was stopped, and not just because of cuts. No way was Lewis almost ko’d either…he was hurt more by Frank Bruno and Shannon Briggs than by Vitali. Also, fighters often hit with other parts of the glove, Hagler was well known for tearing opponents faces up like that (Minter, Sibson, Antuofermo etc), BHOP uses foul means all the time, so does Wlad with his leaning and neck pushing. Lewis won that, and he was fat and out of shape too. Had he been in the condition he was in for Rahman II we wouldnt even be discussing it because he wouldve destroyed Vitali.

Posted April 23, 2014 12:55 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

“Squared Circle.., ‘It’s now common knowledge that there’s no way Ali wouldn’t have answered the bell for the 15th’
I’ll have to disagree with you on this one.”

Okay that’s fine, TARK. Perhaps I misspoke when I said, “It’s now common knowledge… .” What I should’ve said is, it’s now common knowledge among those who’ve seen the most recent HBO Thrilla in Manila documentary.

I, as well as many others, had scored the fight 7-7 after the 14th. Joe won rounds 5-11 and beat the living h3ll out of Ali during that time. Of course Ali dominated the 14th, but he couldn’t knock Frazier down or stop him. At the end of the 14th, Ali went back to his corner and literally fell down onto his stool. It’s now documented that he said to Dundee, “cut my gloves off…cut ’em off.” And then he pleaded with his corner to stop the fight. Ali has since confirmed this as fact.

Frazier on the hand, still had the energy to continue and was pleading with his corner not to stop the fight. Yes, his right eye was badly swollen, but it wasn’t closed and he could still see out of it.

Ali had totally punched himself out in the previous two rounds and was way beyond exhaustion. He was done. After the fight was called off, Ali immediately collapsed in the ring and stayed down, flat on his back, for several minutes. So, if Futch would’ve listened to Frazier and not stopped the fight, Joe would’ve won because Ali would’ve failed to answer the bell or collapsed. I sincerely and firmly believe that.

Please watch the last few minutes of the recent HBO documentary on YouTube. Just search for “HBO Thrilla In Manila Documentary” and it will be the video at the top of the list (start at 1:16:44).

Posted April 23, 2014 11:51 am 


“Agree with Assyrian and Tark on this overall, but not Lewis fouling VK, he beat him fair’n’square.”

LMFAO… LL didn’t best VK fair and square. He damned near got KO’d in the first 2 rounds so he started fouling his ass off. He knew he had Lou Moret in his pocket.

Study the 3 round thumb strike that caused the first nick in slo-mo… It was deliberate. Than study head lock and palm slash that happened shortly afterwards… The fight should have gone to the scorecards.. Unanimous Technical Decision for Vitali Klitschko.. The official result was one of Boxing MANY unjust and corrupt rulings.

The crowd booed Lewis all the way out and cheered Vitali. That tells you who was doing better in the fight… not just the unanimous scorecards.

Posted April 23, 2014 11:40 am 


Agree with Assyrian and Tark on this overall, but not Lewis fouling VK, he beat him fair’n’square. But some of you guys are crazy if you think Marciano, Louis, Dempsey, Patterson, Norton, Ali, Liston, Frazier and Foreman woulda beat LL, VK, WK!!!! True too that the comp for those champs was no great shakes either. 90’s and 2000’s are prob the strongest era ever.

Posted April 23, 2014 11:12 am 


you have more chance of seeing elvis today than a great heavyweight fight.

Posted April 23, 2014 10:53 am 


That was me below a comment for princes

Posted April 23, 2014 9:47 am 


Tark, the era of Tyson, Holy and Lewis was over when the Klitschkos got big. If Corrie Sanders can crush Wlad, then Tyson can even more so. You always come back with the cuts on Vitali´s face having been caused by illegal punches from Lewis which is a great excuse for Klit-nuthuggers as they can´t take it that Vitali was beaten up that night. I guess the other cuts that he suffered on his cheek came from a nail Lewis had in his gloves? Just nonsense!

Posted April 23, 2014 7:18 am 


You can’t use the word ” prime” got a boxer only when it is convenient for your argument …if a boxer never achieved his best then you can’t use that and say ” if he only had trained more ” or some other ” if’s ” Tyson
Was hitting Douglas just he same as other opponents he faced before him but Douglas was the first boxer who took it and wasn’t afraid to hit back. , that’s your ” prime” Tyson , simple as that.

Posted April 23, 2014 3:10 am 

Mongrel H@mster


Wlad would smack Tyson so hard his facial tattoo would come off.

Cus D’Amato told Tyson never to go near a guy that big and he listened. He didn`t even go after old Foreman and that is because of Cus showing him Frazier-Foreman.

And Foreman was only 6″3.

Posted April 23, 2014 3:10 am 


Prince.., “A prime Tyson beats a prime Klitschko. And so does Lewis and most likely Holy as well.”

How do you figure that??? Buster Douglas was KO’d about 6 times by guys like Mike White and Lou Saverese, not to mention from one punch from 208-pound Holyfield, yet he was too big, tall, strong, fast, and skilled for Tyson.

Tyson refused to fight the Klitschkos. He said they were too big and strong for him. Holyfield just wouldn’t fight them either, but he lost badly to Larry Donald who Vitali knocked out.

Tyson got knocked out by Danny Williams who Vitali knocked out. Tyson couldn’t hurt or stop Kevin 280lb Kevin McBride with his best punches.. McBride stopped Tyson.. Wladimir victim Mariusz Wach knocked Kevin McBride ice cold with one punch.

Tyson and Holyfield weren’t big, strong, tough, or skilled enough to beat the Klitschkos.. Lewis was big enough, and gave Vitali a fight on less than 2-weeks notice.. He was declared the winner when the fight was stopped on cuts, but he was behind on all scorecards.

A close study of the video record shows that Lewis slashed those cuts open with the palm of his glove while holding Vitali in a headlock … a double foul. The first nick was opened by a thumb strike, which the video record clearly shows.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:49 am 


Prince who are you kidding ??? Lmao!!! If you are not a racist you surely don’t like white boxers it’s not only klitchkos you idiot!!! You really think you can hide by just saying you are not a racist but attack only white boxers for years! Gtfo you faaaaking pieeee e of Shiet !!!!!

Posted April 23, 2014 2:37 am 


Slater says.., “If Wladimir boxes on for just a further four years, by which time he will be 42 (which is only a number, as he has already made clear) and remains unbeaten, he will eclipse the great Joe Louis’ record of dominating for a staggering 12-years. “The Brown Bomber” ruled the heavyweights without a blemish from 1937 to 1949.”

Wladimir’s task will soon get tougher, because Fury, Wilder, and Jennings aren’t going away any time soon.

It’s important to note that Louis took 4 years off from defending his Heavyweight Championship during WWII. He had no professional fights at all during those 4 years. Also the competition Louis fought was severely limited. I don’t think Wladimir will be fighting any Tony Galento’s, Red Burman’s, or Jack Roper’s.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:27 am 


Laj, what is your point? I was responding to UD who claimed Tyson at his peak was KOed by Buster. When starting from 1989 Tyson was beyond his best due to poor attidute etc. Now Klitschko was completely annihilated by Sanders and has of course imrpoved ever since, I won´t deny that, but a prime Tyson beats a prime Klitschko. And so does Lewis and most likelyHoly as well.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:16 am 


Yo Adrian, who the hell are yout to call me racist. I don´t like Klitschko and the way he fights, doesn´t make me a racist. Get a clue, imbecile.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:13 am 


Squared Circle.., “It’s now common knowledge that there’s no way Ali wouldn’t have answered the bell for the 15th”

I’ll have to disagree with you on this one.

Ali would have come out.. Ali was acting tired so Frazier would punch himself out. Frazier was completely gone and that’s why Ali tore into Frazier with impunity in the 14th. That was a savage attack. Frazier couldn’t see. Nothing was coming back at Ali.

Ali was fat and out of shape too — but not nearly as badly out of shape as Frazier, who was a physically shot fighter at that point. Ali wasn’t. Ali said he was next to death, but that was all for drama … Ali was a big drama guy, an actor.

Nobody but an idiot would have let Frazier come out for the 15th. He was burnt toast and a wide open target.

Posted April 23, 2014 2:02 am 


Sanity and prince if someone is racist here it’s you guys who won’t admit klitchkos is even good let alone an all time greats , as if they are not the champions for a decade now , guys that’s even bad for your racist argument because it means there were no one out there good that your preferred race produced ….

Guys like you and Vivek I see them try for years and years trying to find something bad about klitchkos ,example Vivek said I rember Ray Austin will ko klitchko because he is lefty and big then when klitchko ko’d him with only a left hand Vivek never exaplained his prognosis or give any credit to klitchko for the win, then came haye , And new prognosis were coming and blames that klitchko is ducking him , evangillista said klitchkos are bums and haye will ko klitchko easy …again after the Haye vs klitchko fight there were no praises after awhile when Vivek and alike saw
There is really no one that could challange the klitchko they started bringing the idea of adding a ” super hw devision” lol as if in a current devision there are limits to how big you can be in hw. This is a new way to try and not rank the klitchko with past all time great haveyweights so they could bring the argument that ” klitchkos only beat big fat giant bums”
Nice try but klitchkos have a spot in haveyweight history as the best in every aspect you want to look at .

Posted April 23, 2014 12:20 am 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

I believe that little CW Joe Frazier has always been overrated, and still is, solely because he beat Ali once and damn near beat him twice. It’s now common knowledge that there’s no way Ali wouldn’t have answered the bell for the 15th, if Futch didn’t stop the fight. After the 14th, Ali told his corner that he couldn’t get up off the stool, that he was done and the fight was over.

Ali won the Thrilla in Manila by the skin of his teeth, and said afterward that it was the “closest thing to dying that I know of.” Ali also pissed blood for weeks after going life and death with little Joe. Ali retired with 5 official losses on his record, but he was gifted 2-3 sweetheart decisions vs. Norton and Young. So realistically, Ali should have 7 or 8 losses on his record.

And these are some of the main reasons why Ali, along with Tyson, are the two most overrated HWs in boxing history. They are often rated higher than Holmes on Top 10 list and that’s a straight-up travesty. Holmes deserve a ton more respect and recognition than that.

Posted April 23, 2014 12:06 am 


I want so see how WK looks in this fight. He’ll have to step up the competition soon. Fury, Wilder, and Jennings. Young, undefeated, and tough.

Posted April 22, 2014 11:47 pm 


Wlad will rule HW for as long as he feels like it.

Posted April 22, 2014 11:41 pm 


I respected Joe Frazier and liked him, but he was overrated and Ali was made to order for his style.

Frazier should have beaten Ali 3 times but managed only one close victory. He had a good left hook that he could throw tirelessly, and he could absorb punches well if you didn’t hit too hard.. Ali was every easy to tag with a quick left hook. If Henry Cooper had another 25 pounds on him his fights with Ali would have been altogether different, because all Cooper did was throw left hooks. If Frazier were 4 inches taller, bigger, and a lot stronger, he would have dominated Ali. I’ve seen Frazier throw 11 left hooks in a row. Unless you were big like Foreman you started getting ripped.

Joe had to fight Foreman, who was the top contender. I knew he was getting killed. Foreman was in the best shape of his living life at 217. I couldn’t believe his condition. Hard as a freakin’ rock and strong as an ox. Frazier was soft as a marshmellow and looked weak. He sure as Hell tried to look confident, but it was an act. After he looked at Foreman, he looked like a guy going to the gallows.

It was like Michael Spinks taking one look at Mike Tyson, because that was the best shape Mike was ever in.

Frazier stayed away from other big punchers — like Lyle, Shavers, Blue Lewis, and Mac Foster. He wouldn’t even fight Ken Norton, who was too strong for him. As Norton got better Joe stopped sparring with him. He couldn’t beat Ken up anymore.

Posted April 22, 2014 11:14 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

You wait till Ramtha gets her pipe out, Brother. I suspect that like me you’re a sucker for a hot pipe smoking MILF too. lol

Posted April 22, 2014 9:04 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Brother Mongrel Hamster.. Your request has been heeded Brother and after taking a brief perusal of Brother Xavier’s recent contribution, I’m no doubt sure you will be delighted to learn that Brother Gonzo has given it the green light.

500,000 ESB ranking points and a pair of snug as a bug in a rug lappet-faced vulture feather slippers have been awarded to Xavier.

Obviously one is familiar with the inept dog-brained gimp/complete laughing stock of the forum PEEJ, but who is this SREDMONGED character of whom you speak? lol. Gonzo doesn’t just have his hand raised in victory after each an every battle, he also ALWAYS has it raised in triumph at the end of the war. ROFL.

Posted April 22, 2014 8:46 pm 


iceman I do agree that at this time most historians rank Ali and Louis higher than the Bros. That may change over time, but I don’t have any problems with Ali and Louis being higher now. You also shouldn’t have problems 5 years from now when Wlad may take that spot from them. He fights on average 2.5 times per year unless he has an injury. say it is only 2 times a year for the next 5 years and he ends up with >30 title defenses and hasn’t been beaten for 15 years, do you really think he wouldn’t be #1 on many lists?

Posted April 22, 2014 7:54 pm 


if he did denounce racism thats good. but im not honoring the nation of islam garbage. clay was never a personality i admired. i like joe frazier though

Posted April 22, 2014 7:36 pm 


… “Ali and Holmes were only stopped as old men.”

Vitali was never down and fought to age 42.. Wladimir wasn’t stopped as an old man, because at 38 maybe he’s not old yet.. It will be very interesting to see how he deals with Fury, Wilder, and Jennings.. They’re young, and they’re not kind.

I don’t think Holmes was old at 38, because he was a much better technical boxer than Ali was.. Holmes could go a lot longer wtih his career without getting trashed.. I think Tyson just caught Holmes on the right day, when he wasn’t well prepared after a 2-year layoff.. Holmes loaded up a right uppercut and tried to throw it when Tyson was wide open. Unfortunately his glove was on the other side of the rope and he almost tore his own arm off. That’s when Tyson nailed him.

Posted April 22, 2014 7:29 pm 


I never said you called him clay, and despite your personal feeling his real name was clay but his real name now is Ali and has been for a long time, if you have a problem with that you are clearly a bigot like your friend bears.

Posted April 22, 2014 7:03 pm 


Sanity.., “Shat does Tyson’s fight with McBride have to do with anything?”

What does Tyson’s fights with Danny Williams and Buster Douglas have to do with anything?? They were all stoppages 12 and 13 years apart.. but all came after he had 9 heavyweight title fights.. He wasn’t too young or too old to get his behind kicked.. He obviously didn’t improve his game with age.

Is longevity and dedication to your craft a criteria for greatness??? You damned right it is.. Lewis and the Klitschkos had it.. Tyson loved to party down.. That’s why and older Lewis and Holyfield popped Mike out.

Talk about fighters losing 4 years from their career… Vitali lost 4 years from his… Didn’t slow him down.

Posted April 22, 2014 6:57 pm 


Look at the guys who have got title shots in last 10 years….your bias is disgusting and racist, you demonstrate that by calling Ali clay, sick twisted individual you are.

Posted April 22, 2014 6:51 pm 


What is clitko’s best win? Who the best fighter he ever beat can some fan enlighten me please

Posted April 22, 2014 6:47 pm 



Posted April 22, 2014 6:46 pm 


was thinking today a good east side article would be discussing best heavyweight brawlers of all time. maybe a top ten list. you think sam peter would be in that list? is tyson a brawler or a boxer puncher with a weak a$$ jab? would foreman be number one? he sure makes a case for it. lyle and shavers? mercer a boxer puncher? ibeabuchi? tua? i would like to hear some thoughts on it. foreman lyle and shAvers came first to my mind. what about golata? i know i missing some.

Posted April 22, 2014 6:29 pm 


Sanity pacman was stopped by a nobody too. Your not judged in boxing by your worst moments in the ring………….wlads worst moments in the ring could not help david haye or povetkin, or sam peter defeat wlad. just like it would not help cassius clay or joe louis in a hypothetical matchup.

joe louis and cassius clay get STEAM ROLLED AND BRUTALIZED by a klitschKO and lennox beats them down too. as i pointed out below noone is stupid enough to try and rope a dope a klitschKO. because all who have tried to just get stationary and absorb shots from a klitschKO got KTFO! All while hoping a klitschKO would tire.

How do you call wlad one of the greatest ever? like pacman wlad was nowhere to peak form when he lost those fights and rematches would have gone the way of the brewster rematch or worse. WE KNOW THIS.

this is precisely why purritty and sanders and brewster are not considered better or greater than wlad. The statement how can wlad be considered great with losses to purritty, sanders, and brewster” is to me airheaded as hell and again very unthoughtful in a thread filled with very unthoughtful posts attempting to detract from the klitschKOs.

Like the guy below saying cassius clay with his speed would unleash combos on a klitschKO. When i read that i literally laughed out loud. Some boxing fans dont know their a$$ from a hole in the ground literally. you have to be strait DUMB to make a statement like that.

clay unleashing combos on a klitschKO!!!!!!!!!!! BHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!!!!

Posted April 22, 2014 6:28 pm 


I never said vlad is crap I said he ain’t top 5, and the majority of historians/boxing experts rate Ali or Louis as best heavyweights ever, that’s a fact you nuthuggers seem to hate and carry a chip on your shoulder, get over it.

Posted April 22, 2014 6:08 pm 


Tark is what is known in the trade as “a spin doctor “. I don’t even like Tyson but what does his fight with McBride have to do with anything ?

It’s like saying Secretariat was an overrated donkey if his owners had been stupid enough to make him comeback as an old horse. Mike was a swarmer , those types NEVER have long primes , especially at heavyweight.

Fighters have very short primes , they may be very good for a long timwe but their actual prime years rearely last longer than 3-4 years max. Wlad actually looked a long way past his best in his last fight.

Posted April 22, 2014 5:38 pm 


Ali and Holmes were only stopped as old men.

Posted April 22, 2014 5:33 pm 


How can a guy that was kayoed by Ross Puritty , Corrie Sanders and Lamont Brewster be the greatest ever ? He didnt avenge the Puritty or Sanders defeats . End of discussion ….

Posted April 22, 2014 5:32 pm 


the historians do rank the klitschkos high ask dan rafael and larry merchant whats up son.

i was thinking today a good east side article would be discussing best heavyweight brawlers of all time. maybe a top ten list. you think sam peter would be in that list? is tyson a brawler or a boxer puncher with a weak a$$ jab? would foreman be number one? he sure makes a case for it. lyle and shavers? mercer a boxer puncher? ibeabuchi? tua? i would like to hear some thoughts on it. foreman lyle and shAvers came first to my mind. what about golata? i know i missing some.

Posted April 22, 2014 5:28 pm 


so this prince dude tried to compare peak tyson to wlad at his lowest point.

rather weak and unfair comparison. your talking about a wlad klitschKO what 10 years ago? and how many years removed from his peak?

wlad is a totally different fighter today than he was back then says EVERYONE cause its obvious. jus watch any recent tape of wlad and watch him around the sanders time.

if u cant see a guy who has totally transformed u dont have an eye for boxing. its possible as a pro wlad changed more than any other boxer before our eyes. maybe canelo will compare in terms of improving through the years. wlads footwork, stance, timing, accuracy, ring generalship, range, and professional control when things get wild. wlad also has the best jab in heavy history and the best strait right and he best 1,2 combo with those two punches.

of course peaked out wlad is favored to beat any non superheavy and between him and lennox its whoever lands first and we know how easily one klitschko brother landed on lewis and own the range/gap control.

wlad technique wise to me has surpassed lennox. wlad is a supperior boxer if u ask me. better footwork and better arsenal. more effective offense. better gap control. better work rate but fundAmentally i think peak wlad is supperior to peak lewis

Posted April 22, 2014 5:23 pm 


thank god all the boxing historians and hall of famers disagree with you. Fair enough you think vlad is best ever but you go on about it like its gospel. Keep it real.

Posted April 22, 2014 4:57 pm 


today is the weakest hw ERA in history. period.

Posted April 22, 2014 4:07 pm 


Sanders was a 6’4″ very fast hard punching lefty. What do you think he would have done to Lewis and Tyson if he caught them with the same punch. Lights out. All fighters can get caught, PacMan got KO’d by Marquez. McBride KO’d Tyson. So what is your point?

Posted April 22, 2014 3:55 pm 


UD, a 26 year old Wladimir was smashed by journeyman and part time boxer Corrie Sanders in 3 rounds! What do you think a Tyson of 87/88 would have done to Wlad?

Posted April 22, 2014 2:57 pm 


fighters today are nowhere near as fit as the old school. 15 rounds,today they strugle to go 7.

Posted April 22, 2014 2:32 pm 


Peej = Jeep spelled backwards.

Posted April 22, 2014 11:00 am 


Prince : Tyson never beat enyone as great as a Klitschko, as you know a 24 year old Tyson lost to a C level fighter Buster Doughlas. Holyfield could have fought both brothers if he wanted to. eny way he wouldnt stand a chance against eny of them for many reasons, mentioned so many times before.

Posted April 22, 2014 8:12 am 


M0ngrel h@mster:
great comment.

Posted April 22, 2014 7:50 am 


“who still beat” – typo

Posted April 22, 2014 7:31 am 


Victor, get a clue, the Klitschkos are not the best. They are the most boring fighters today. They are lucky they did not have to face the likes of Tyson, Lewis (who still bit the tougher Vitali despite being at the end of his career) or Holyfield in their primes.

Posted April 22, 2014 7:30 am 


How *come – typo

Posted April 22, 2014 4:44 am 


Mongriel speaks the truth and he is 100% correct. !
To add one thing a fmr. Yugoslavia was the only communistic country that allowed his boxers to go pro , and surprise surprise mate parlov who wasn’t really that great became a light haveyweight (today cruiserweight ) champion of the world …lol who come ? Was the era that weak in the early 80’s ? Lol
Then it was sllobodan kacar from Yugoslavia who became a champion of the world as a pro in the 80’s …

Posted April 22, 2014 4:43 am 


M0ngrel h@mster, lol! Have a good day!

Posted April 22, 2014 4:05 am 

M0ngrel h@mster

I would like to put in a request to Gonzo that Xavier be awarded a generous portion of ranking points. We need people like him on tier 2, not the lower tiers where he may have to interact unexpectadly with PEEJ or an SREDMOND.

Oh wait, f$%#. I don`t have my Vulture hybrid summoning horn on me. Someone is going to have to get us 200mls of Tera Patrick sweat and I`ll begin the Gonzo summoning ceremony.

Posted April 22, 2014 3:58 am 


People should learn to assess and re-assess things clearly, without an agenda, and both Klitschkos deserve Top Ten heavyweight status. Some of the old timers therefore get demoted.

Posted April 22, 2014 3:52 am 


M0ngrel h@mster is basically correct in his assertions.

Posted April 22, 2014 3:46 am 



Posted April 22, 2014 3:24 am 








7.Wlаdimir |*




Posted April 22, 2014 2:36 am 








7.Wlаdimir |*




Posted April 22, 2014 2:29 am 


My posts are not showing up. I’m out.

Posted April 22, 2014 1:36 am 


Boxers train harder today than ever. They never had nutritionists… strength trainers… cardio conditioning specialists… and sports chefs in camp for 3 monts in the 1970’s … The prep has become unreal.

Posted April 22, 2014 1:35 am 

sean p h

Tark and toe. I live in maryland. If you guys are close to md hit me up.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:21 am 

sean p h

Peej. Your list is awful
Damn your a hating racist.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:20 am 

the toe cutter

Oh ill be here. Its you im worried about.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:15 am 


I won’t see you Sunday… You won’t show.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:08 am 


The top fighters train much harder and longer today for a title fight, and use many more specialists in camp than they ever did.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:07 am 

the toe cutter

see you sunday.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:07 am 


NOBODY looked like Wladimir Klitschko back then… and nobody trained as hard or prepared as long for a single fight as they do today… The whole regimen has changed because of the massive money involved.

You didn’t have nutritionists… strength training specialists… cardio conditioning specialists… sports chefs… and 2 assistant trainers in the 1970’s.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:06 am 


You didn’t have nutritionists… strength training specialists… cardio conditioning specialists… sports chefs… and 2 assistant trainers in the 1970’s.

NOBODY looked like Wladimir Klitschko back then… and nobody trained as hard or prepared as long for a single fight as they do today… The whole regimen has changed because of the massive money involved.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:04 am 


In your dreams.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:01 am 


Iceman…, You didn’t even HAVE strength training specialists, cardio-conditioning experts, nutritionists, sport chefs, and 2 assistant boxing trainers in camp during the ‘50’s, 60’s, and 70’s… Boxers didn’t go 12 rounds with 4 sparring partners in those days either.

Nobody looked like Wladimir Klitschko back then.. believe me.. The top guys go harder today and there’s a lot more money at stake for fighting fewer fights.. The prep is outrageous.

Posted April 22, 2014 12:00 am 

the toe cutter

Klit this Klit that your ALL gunna get the shock of your lives come the weekend. GO LION HEART.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:30 pm 


Training standards haven’t slipped… I’ve been in the game for over 50 years and training standards have only gotten stronger and stronger with every decade.

Some guys now will spar for 30 minutes without taking a break.. just for a few seconds to change sparring partners.. Some guys spar 12 hard rounds at a clip.. Fighters do weight lifting and plyometrics to increase their strength and punching power.. There was no such thing as strength training specialists and cardio conditioning specialists in the 1960’s and ’70’s.. Now the top boxers search out the top strength trainers and conditioning coaches, hire the best nutritionists and chiefs, and have assistant boxing coaches.

To say training standards have slipped is nonsense.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:23 pm 


Iceman, you do realize there were only 2000 attendibg Alis second fight with Liston? It is only in the USA thta heavyweight interest has slipped and that is due to no american champions. You also must realize Wlad always sells out all his fights? Some of his fights have over 60000? Open up your viewpoint. Arguing era’s is a losing battle unless we get time travel.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:19 pm 


vitali wasnt unique technically at all!hes just tuff to beat, with a decent punch. i see your saying leapai poses sizeable risk now? last week you you were saying he was a joke and hes going to get his head teed off. what happened to the boystov fight being rubbish?

Posted April 21, 2014 11:12 pm 


I don’t think modern era fighters are better I believe because boxing is no longer as popular as once was training standards have slipped, Virgil hunter was saying same thing.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:05 pm 

Cooper KTFO of Ali

Cassius Clay was KTFO by Sir Henry Cooper ( a white guy by the way), only magic performed by Angelo saved Clay’s arsehole.

Then down the road little guy Joe Frazier flattened Ali with another cool left hook ( much like Coopers left hook)

Ali is only the greatest of all time because he self proclaimed and named himself that.

Ali is too small for K-Bros, both of them.

Kbros-250 lbs vs 215 Ali, Ali gets Kayoed boys, KTFO.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:22 pm 


Not necessarily iceman… If Ali fought today he would be just as lazy has he was in the 70’s.. Ali was out of shape for many fights, and in really horrible shape for Young because Jimmy only had 14 wins.. Ali often went off his diet, chased women, broke training, etc.

Ali could get away with that fighting Challengers like Jean Pierre Coopman… Richard Dunn… Alfredo Evangelista… Chuck Wepner… and Leon Stinks.

If Wladimir fought in the 1970’s he would be just as dedicated to improving his game for every fight at the age of 38 as he is today… He’s always in perfect condition… never breaks training… doesn’t chase women during training camp… and always sticks to his nutrition and training plan… He has to do that facing giants like Mariusz Wach… Tyson Fury… Kubrat Pulev… and Deontay Wilder.

Wladimir not going to be letting up any time soon… Not like Ali did.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:21 pm 


iceman, that is silly. Boxers in the early century went 20-30 rounds. Rocky never tired, ali rarely tired. They train differently now, not necessarily better. It is also considered to have had better trainers as far as skill honing back then. So that would mean ali would not be as skilled and Wald would be even more skilled. Stupid isn’t it?

Posted April 21, 2014 10:16 pm 


To all you who believe the modern era is better, think of this, if vlad was in the 70s he would be a lot worse because training standards were so poor etc and if Ali was fighting now he would be even faster and better.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:06 pm 


leapai poses sizable risk. guy is powerful andcan throw from weird angles. he was no expected to tet by boystov. he looked much better against boystov than he did walker

Posted April 21, 2014 9:15 pm 


BOWE? HAHAHAHHAHA……he took a couple beatings in the fights he won from golata. Watch those fights till the DQ’s. And hes punch drunk just like ali.

Posted April 21, 2014 9:09 pm 


i dont think anyone from the 60s would beat vitaly , wlad , or lewis. if hayes not fast enough to clay would not have been able to rely on speed. plus with wlads best jab in history his awesome footwork his work rate and power.

clay landing combos on a klitschko and dominating through speed and feather fists is funny and utterly unthoughtful. little clay would get uttlerly destroyed then a klitschko would walk over his carcas on the canvas.

u can look at clays tape all day and see what worked and what did not. who in the hell did clay beat that makes you think he would beat a klitschKO? little one eyed frazier? foreman? or u think shelling up under a deffense and becoming stationary AKA “the rope a dope” is wise against a klitschko? u have any idea how UTTERLY BRUTAL it gets for a klitschko opponent when they get stationary and shell up under a deffense? klitschkos NUKE that DESTROY IT! ice never seen anyone better at it! some people just have no sense at all. clay beating a peak klitschko? even jim rome said wlad would have destroyed him last year on his show.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:42 pm 

Fight Aficionado

PEEJ you also don’t rank Lewis as Top 10 even though he sparked Tyson and manhandled Holyfield, your Nos. 3-4, and when their careers ended most consider Lewis above them. Bowe No 5 he ducked Lewis and only held the unified titles for two years? We’re all entitle to opinions but your list should be called the Top 10 American heavyweights.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:20 pm 

Fight Aficionado

“1) Ali
2) Louis
3) Holyfield
4) Tyson
5) Bowe
6) Foreman
7) Johnson
8) Frazier
9) Liston
10) Holmes

The Klitschkos don’t even make it into the top 15 because they’ve only fought bums during the weakest era in heavyweight boxing history.”

– PEEJ, Louis’ opponents were weaker than Wlad’s. His title reign is what coined the phrase “bum of the month club” yet you have him at #2. It appears you have different criteria for Wlad, who has more title defenses than everyone else in your Top 10.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:14 pm 


I think Wlad would have beaten everyone fairly easily except Ali and Holmes in the late 70’s. Foreman may have caught the early Wlad, but young Foreman also had pacing problems and Wlad is much faster. The rest of that generation was good, but not great, and definitely overrated. This is coming from someone coming up with boxing in that era. I just have to look back at Spinks and the proposed fight with Wilt to say that the competition was not as deep as nostalgia makes it to be. In addition it was really a US and Western Europe championship.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:08 pm 


PEEJ, Clay/Ali was knocked down by Henry Cooper and he beat Cooper twice by cutting his face to ribbons. He never looked like knocking Henry Copper out. He might have beaten Vitali, but not by a pure knockout. Yeah, Ali at his 60’s peak could well have taken the Klitschko’s. I’d probably pick him too. Still, your list looks dominated by nostalgia…veteran Ali got the benefit of some dodgy decisions (Norton, Young etc), Holyfield doesn’t deserve #3, no Lewis in the list… Bowe so high with a disappointing reign as champ?, Liston who went out in 6 rounds and 1 round to Ali? Are you picking these guys on their best night or what? I’d like to know the criteria. Frazier would hardly beat Vitali and if you’re one of those who hold it against Vitali for retiring against Byrd , you have to hold it against others such as Johnson who many believe threw the Willard fight or Liston who quit against Clay…Louis was knocked down many times in his career, lost three times, same as Wlad who is older than Louis and Ali were as champs..if you believe the Klitschkos only beat bums, which is harsh, well they used to say the same about Louis…Ali beat many soft opponents too.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:03 pm 


iceman, you can’t make excuses for any fighter. Ali just turned 36 when he lost to Spinks. Longevity is part of the formula. Ali was a great fighter, and few leave him out of the top 3, but he did indeed lose to the worse heavyweight champion of all time, and only a 7 fight novice, which shows the competition at that time was really not that good.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:03 pm 


The Bros and Lewis will be in the top 5 in the next 10 years. Vitali just retired and Wlad is still fighting. Fighters normally do not get rated until after they have retired for several years. This is to enable judging the full body of their work and the fighters that follow them. I have already seem Lewis on a number of top ten list. Never seen Bowe on even a top 20 list to be honest, and Holmes has almost always been in the top 5 along with Marciano. Dan Rafeal and others already rank Wlad up with the top 5, and he is certainly an expert.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:01 pm 


Just out of interest how do you think vlad would of faired in the 70s?

Posted April 21, 2014 7:48 pm 


Vlad ain’t no top 5 heavyweight of all time…..i cant believe supposed fight fans bashing legends just to justify vlad….so what Ali lost to Spinks, Ali was done after 3rd Frazier fight any fight fan knows that, Tyson was done after 1991

Posted April 21, 2014 7:44 pm 


Just cause you clowns don’t agree with my list doesn’t mean its wrong. Actually my list is much closer to the top 10 lists from the leading boxing analysts. None of the experts have the Klits and Lewis ranked in the top 5. Not one of them, so just stop it. Everyone knows Ali is The Greatest of All Times and would easily beat both Klits. He was way too smart, fast and skilled for them. His footwork and dancing was unbelievable and he had an iron chin. He would land his jab and flurries of combinations on the slow Russians at will until knocking them out. Hate on haters!

Posted April 21, 2014 7:32 pm 


PEEJ, at least you put up your top ten list, but your list looks strange, man, strange. No Lennox Lewis even? Holyfield at 3? Bowe so high? Prime Bowe for one fight or what? Who beat Dokes and Ferguson as champ, ducked Lewis and was basically battered twice by Golota? The Klitschkos did more than Frazier and Liston. Jack Johnson is it? Great for his day. but …You have to leave the nostalgia trip behind, seriously and move on.

Posted April 21, 2014 7:31 pm 


Rob helenius needs to come back and nat heaven is on the rise!lets see what happens with perez-jennings

Posted April 21, 2014 7:31 pm 


Anonymous why don’t you use a real handle?

Posted April 21, 2014 7:25 pm 


peej. bang on my man.

Posted April 21, 2014 7:19 pm 


hw boxing has been in the shi# house for nearly 20 years. period.

Posted April 21, 2014 7:09 pm 


peej – i dont think your qualified even as a fan to bad mouth the klitschKOs cAuse u clearly dont know what your talking about. i appreciate your giving out your top ten but sadly it did more harm than good for ya. it totally drscredited every klitschko bashing line u have on this thread better than anyone else could have smugly rebuffed you. u committed east side suicide with that dude! WHOA!

Posted April 21, 2014 6:50 pm 


I cant stop laughing at your 3-9 rankings. WOW that sh!t is FUBAR SON !!!!


theres no way you can defend that list man. its horrible. i kinda feel sorry for you. It shows you know nothing at heavy and literally throw names out there that you dont even know. You know very little heavy history. I would have put marciano on that list before some of the dudes you listed. you failed to list the best heavies of the last 20 years the klitschKOs and lewis!!!! and listed dudes you dont know the first thing about!!!!!!!! too funny dude!!!! PRICELESS

Posted April 21, 2014 6:37 pm 


Holyfield you have got to be kidding. This is going to be easy. The dude was 26-10 as a heavyweight. Beat more every significant heavyweight in his era other than Tyson. KO’d by Toney, who couldn’t break a paper bag. Tyson, only on top for 2 years, KO’d by McBride and Williams. Bowe, never number 1, who did he beat other than Holyfield? Foreman 5-4-1 in championship bouts. His record has 60 real BUMS on it. No Lewis, but you have Tyson, Holy and Bowe? I wouldn’t have any of the 3-5 on my top 10 much less top 5. No knowledgeable fan would have Bowe or Holyfield so high. Ali lost to the worst heavyweight champion in the world Leon Spinks, need I say more? Foreman KO’d by power challenged Ali, and knocked down by Young with a 20% KO ratio? Holmes below so many weak champions? This is like taking candy from a baby it is such a weak list. None of 3-5 should be in the top 10. Frazier and Liston shouldn’t be in the top 15. Liston was stopped in one punch by a light hitting Ali, and was in with the mob. See how easy it is to shoot holes in any fighter you put up here. I can easily find faults with all of them. How could you leave Lewis out of the top 10, or Rocky?

Posted April 21, 2014 6:35 pm 


Hey, Lion King.

I was just saying people can look at stats from very different angles. is 49-0 better than 61-3?
I don’t know. BTW I feel Wlad has the tools to easily outbox The Rock and avoid his
Suzy Q and probably go for a late stoppage. It all depends whether he feels The Rock’s power as he flails away at his arms and body. If, yes then Wlad goes for the decision.

I generally look at fighters once they’ve retired to fate their whole body of work, but it’s clear that the likes of Joe, Wlad and Floyd will all go down as First Ballot Hall of Famers.

Personally, I would have liked them all to have had a really great foe to have faced and bested, perhaps more an once. I wish Floyd had rematched Oscar, instead of retiring. Wlad faced them all and has done the one thing befitting a champion… Kept his council in the face of scandalous baiting from David Haye. It would have been great if he could have knocked his teeth out.

For what it’s worth I expect to see Wlad clean out the likes of Wilder, Fury and Jennings before he hangs them up.

Posted April 21, 2014 6:35 pm 



you could not list a white guy in there could you? oh well. bowe is great just because he beat holyfield? bowe literally fought nobody. if beating holyfield makes you top ten then a lot of guys are top ten.

you listed sonny liston a guy you know absolutely nothing about and I would love to see why he made your list

you did not even mention lennox!

I thought mike tyson was the bum slayer extrodinaire personally. nobody slayed bums better and got more credit for it. in fact mike tysons best win must be an old holmes. mike looses to all three super heavies NO DOUBT.

Holyfield was a stellar cruiser. I would not call him a stellar heavy. He was feather fisted and has some funny stories for not cycling peds right against moorer.

I can understand your first two though im far from agreeing. 3-10 on your list is garbage ratings. you actually have the great holmes ranked 10 and i would give a prime holmes the best hypothetical chance against the three super heavies i listed who are the 3 best and most likely to beat everyone else in 1. vitaly 2. wlad and 3. lennox. of all the other greats i feel holmes has the best chance of boxing these guys. foreman is like shavers and lyle. wide open and gonna get hit harder and from farther and way more often then he ever imagined especially by the klitschkos. foreman has already said multiple times the klitschKOs are better than he was. in fact foreman of all the greats has praised them the most next to tyson who is a huge klitschKO fan.

Posted April 21, 2014 6:32 pm 


Alright here’s my list of Top 10 ATG Heavyweights:

1) Ali
2) Louis
3) Holyfield
4) Tyson
5) Bowe
6) Foreman
7) Johnson
8) Frazier
9) Liston
10) Holmes

The Klitschkos don’t even make it into the top 15 because they’ve only fought bums during the weakest era in heavyweight boxing history. All you fools who have the Klit sisters ranked in the top 5 are nothing but racist idiots!

Posted April 21, 2014 6:15 pm 


always great posting by fight afficionado as well

Posted April 21, 2014 6:09 pm 

Fight Aficionado

“I could care less about how many title defenses Wlad has. He has them against bums for the most part. You are delusional if you actually think Wlad is top 5.” – PEEJ if Wlad is not top 5 then again you should post your top 5 ATG heavyweights. We can compare their victories to Wlad’s. You had to go back a decade to cite Wlad’s two losses. What’s happened since then?

Posted April 21, 2014 6:03 pm 


A young Ali was fun to watch but all that rope a dope laying on the ropes for 3 minutes taking a beating to the body and head is not great.

Ali was a very great champ thou.

Posted April 21, 2014 5:52 pm 


great posting by TARK, LIONKING, and laj.

I wanna second the call for PEEJ and any other haters top 5 heavyweights. Here is mine and its BASED on the toughest heavyweights of all time. those who would beat everyone else in time.
1 vitaly klitschko- this guy is probably the most unique technically i have ever seen. his style is the most unique and most effective. his accolades are too numerous to mention here
2. wladimir
3. lennox
4 holmes
5 joe louis / cassius clay

4-6 would not defeat the modern super heavis listed at 1-3

Posted April 21, 2014 5:39 pm 


I agree with your assessment of Rocky. I do believe he would have still been undefeated if he had continued for another 5 years though, so I cut him a little extra slack. I mean Foreman is up there in most top 10 lists and he was on top for a lot shorter period of time. Comparing eras is difficult. Wlad is certainly greatest of his era, as was Rocky. By the way Calzaghe probably is the greatest SMW of all time since that is where he fought 95% of his career.

Posted April 21, 2014 5:35 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Anonymous: It’s good to see you tearing it up on these boards as well! (But I do wish that you’d change your handle so we don’t get you confused with the other Anonymous.)

Good point point about Rocky and I can understand why some will think that. I respect that position, although I don’t agree with it. I believe a record like 72-3 is still more impressive than a record like 49-0. I don’t consider 2-3 losses to be a terrible blemish on a fighters record — especially if he retires with 20 + more wins than the guy who retired undefeated. By your logic, you must consider Calzaghe to be the greatest Light HW ever and FMJ to be the greatest WW ever?

“Wins and losses shouldn’t be the be-all and end all when rating the greats as I believe longevity, quality of opposition, dominating the division or divisions mean as much or even more…”

I fully agree and that’s precisely why I will end up ranking WK higher than RM. RM was the HW Champion for just 3 short years and he only won 6 consecutive title defenses. He simply didn’t have the longevity and that’s why he only had 49 fights. RM’s whole entire pro career spanned just 8 years.

WK has already been a pro for 18 years and has spent a total of 10 years as HW Champion (8 consecutive years). If he fights and maintains all his titles for another 5 years, he will have been a SUPER DOMINANT HW Champion, reigning for 13 consecutive years. And his last loss (’04) will have been 15 long years before his final fight. So you’d have to go back a very long ways to dig up any real dirt on him.

Plus, I can scarcely imagine a small, 5’10” 185lbs RM with a short 68″ reach beating a giant 6’7″ 245lbs Wlad with an 81″ reach. I’m sorry, but that’s just not realistic as RM wouldn’t have a snowballs chance in h3ll. That’s the problem with trying to compare old timers like RM and Tunney, etc. to modern Super HWs. It’s like comparing apples and oranges, as those guys would be CWs by today’s standards. (Louis would be a CW and a very small HW later on in his career.)

Posted April 21, 2014 4:51 pm 


PEEJ thinks Ali was great when he was finished at 38.

Waldimir is 38 and still humming along… and fighting much bigger, stronger, tougher, and better fighters than the Alfredo Evangelista’s, Jean Pierre Coopman’s, and Chuck Wepners of the world…, who Ali preferred to fight.

Wepner looked more like the soft, 50-year-old, beer bellied plumber who comes to your house than a boxer. Even Duane Bobick stopped this pathetic, out-of-shape slob faster than Ali could.

Posted April 21, 2014 4:42 pm 


Am I the only one that finds it entertaining that a bazillion knowledgeable boxing fan’s on this site and writers, boxers that lost to klitschko, along with greats like Emanuel steward see Wladmir as a extreme talent and now proven great,” not the greatest yet” but great, however, everybody is wrong except the narcissist grand wizzard know it all peej.

Lol lol lol lol boy this clown is really believing his own self proclaimed hype.

How do you even agrue with such a boneheaded nutt case of a sore looser.

Unbelievably crazy you are peej.

Take your meds dude seriously., you make yourself look out of this world stupid all the time, your a broken record from the 1960’s mind set.

Posted April 21, 2014 4:29 pm 


I can’t stand bhops methods of winning fights just as most don’t like Wladmir s methods of winning fights but their both effective and puts victory s in the win column.

Posted April 21, 2014 4:08 pm 


is drug testing still as strict in russia as it was in the 70″S.

Posted April 21, 2014 4:03 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn aka King of the Vultures

All of those kind words about me were penned by Tier Two luminaries. Praise doesn’t come much higher than that.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:57 pm 


So Doc, when did Wlad fold against Peter? So I guess Manny folded, Oscar Delahoya folded? Foreman folded, Ali folded. Basically everyone that was ever stopped folded. Really?

Posted April 21, 2014 3:56 pm 


at least vitali fought a fat past his best 37 year old lewis. the other one has fought nothing but bums.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:56 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn aka King of the Vultures

It’s Me, Ernie

Much respect to Brother Gonzo, the man, the myth, the legend…

Posted March 7, 2014 2:25 am

It’s Me, Ernie

Standing alone @ Tier One must be lonely at times, but your valor is much respected by us common aspiring folk. To be so generous with your gifting of points is honorable, yet at the same time viciously revoking them as needed is just pure beauty in its simplest form. Being Gonzo is a responsibility bestowed on you, and you handle it like Maidana handled Broner…

Posted March 7, 2014 2:23 am


Gonzo is hella funny.

He’s also nearly always on point too.

Posted March 5, 2014 1:01 pm

Joseph Herron

LOL…I see the self proclaimed “Raven” (Gonzo) is spanking everyone on this site once again…LOL

Posted February 11, 2014 1:28 am


Goodevening. Gonzo the dragon born/ Edgar Allen Poe, sir I have to say you are one gutsy bloke. Your posts are definitely like how should I say? A virtual whirlwind of creativity! Like watching a cross between Pacquiao and Aaron Pryor. There is a method to the madness there for certain. Must admit I do enjoy them if for nothing more than the humor laced with some thought provoking view points. Peace and strength and a hearty cheers to you soldier.

Posted February 11, 2014 12:55 am


everyone know your number one gonzo i dont think any sane mind disputes that fact.

Posted February 10, 2014 10:21 pm


WOW!!! what a post GONZO!!! well said!!! well said!!! look out gonzo can wow a dude with his posts. hands down best post on this thread! THIS GUY gonzo is not number for no reason son.

Posted February 10, 2014 10:08 pm


Gonzo is by far one if the most entertaining posters on here get a sense of humor and enjoy life a little.

Posted February 1, 2014 9:48 pm


gonzo! thats my guy right there! number one poster on east side. better hope he forgives your boxing knowledge sins

Posted September 3, 2013 8:30 pm

Joseph Herron

Vivic’s vernacular, Gonzo’s gags, and old Yank’s yarns are part of what makes ESB the great boxing site going.

Posted August 31, 2013 2:12 pm

It’s Me, Ernie

Another fine example why Brother Gonzo is at Tier One…

Posted September 2, 2013 12:26 pm

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. The Lion King of Beat Street)

Brother Gonzo. With that uniquely creative imagination and those wordsmithing skills you could write dark, macabre, action-adventure/horror-thrillers for a living. You could be the next Edgar Allen Poe and not even realize it.
– Posted August 21, 2013 3:34 pm


You have made a mistake now boy.

You don`t have to worry about who Gonzo is, you need to worry about what he is. He is a force of n@ture. He has f-c-u-k-d a hurric@ne. When he was born, even his d@ddy called him d@ddy.

Imagine if you will a Tsun@mi, but rather than being made of water, it is comprised of pure Ande@n Cond0r mixed with l@shings of Clint E@stwood circa 1964, Fistful of Doll@rs er@.

Now imagine that Tsun@mi g@thering it`s force up on Tier one, which I can tell you extends upwards of 22,000 feet, and is a place where ordin@ry humans would require Oxygen m@sks, so as I say imagine it g@thering it`s force, growing and growing, lightening flicker!ng, the smell of ozone in the air and word-pairings, and syll@bals clash together.
Then there is a creak as the Golden doors of tier one are pulled open by Tera P@trick and Scarlett Joh@nnson wearing nothing but smiles, and a hungry look for e@ch other.

You have a moments silence where you have the ins@ne hope that nothing will happen.

But then, suddenly there it is.

A million cubic tons of Vulture E@stwood Dragonborn fury pouring from the sky, slicing it`s way towards your very soul.

At the tip of this Tsnum@i you`ll see a sneer!ng pair of lips form, which as they grow closer draw back to reveal a set of kn@shers intent on dam@ge.

Realising your error you back away, head twisting, seek!ng an esc@pe.

You tr!p and fall onto your back and cover your eyes.

But this can do nothing to stop the be@st you have unleashed from settling it`s jaws upon your most pr!zed possess!ons and r!pping them out root and stem with a crunching twist.

That my friend is Gonzo.

If you feel this is an ex@ggeration then b@re this in mind. Do you know Keyzer Soze? Of course you do, everyone has heard of him. What most people do not know however is that Keyzer once borrowed Gonzo’s Ferr@ri 250 GT, and returned it without filling the t@nk.

This is why Gonzo now possesses a mousem@t made from Keyzers scr-0-tum.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:54 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn aka King of the Vultures

ROFL I’m by far the best poster on this site and a serious candidate for one of the greatest posters on any of the trillions of web-based internet forums out there. That’s not an opinion, it’s a indisputable cast-iron, iron clad certified fact and nothing anyone, least of all someone as grotesquely stupid as you, someone who has publicly admitted to smearing themselves in their own feces and downing baboon urine by the gallon to help them ”unwind at night”, can do or say can ever change that or turn my millions of adoring fans against me. There’s a reason why I am loved and adored by all and sundry on here and worshipped like a deity. And there’s also a reason why you are universally regarded as grotesque gibbon-brained inept gimp.

I don’t even have to talk about boxing anymore.. that’s the kind of high regard and esteem I’m held in by my peers, fans and all the mods and everyone up in admin. I’ve schooled so many clowns in the past, racked up so many Ws in my win column, that I can just sit looking down on the mortals from the comfort of my lofty perch and mosey on down whenever the whim takes me to start a discussion about whatever subject takes my fancy whenever the fcuk I like. The old-hands know exactly what King Daddy Gonzo is capable of when he dons his serious hat, you more than anyone know full well exactly what I’m capable of when in serious mode giving the amount of ass-whoopings I’ve administered to you over the years. I just don’t lose debates. Period!! ROFL.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:52 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

“What HOF fighter has either of the Klitschko brothers fought beside Lewis? Case closed!”

Case re-opened: It’s still TOO SOON to know at this point how many of the Klitschko’s opponents will eventually make it into the HOF. You should know that it can take many years for a fighter to be selected and inducted after they’ve retired. Case closed!

Posted April 21, 2014 3:50 pm 


What HOF fighter has either of the Klitschko brothers fought beside Lewis? Case closed! For the record, I have much more respect for Vitali than Wlad, because when the going got tough (besides the Byrd fight) Vitali would at least fight back. Wlad on the other hand has always folded when put under pressure….

Posted April 21, 2014 3:44 pm 


So PEEJ give us a list of those you think are better than Wlad on the all-time list? Be ready for the gunfire.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:42 pm 


PEEJ.., Kevin McBride stopped Mike Tyson—but that didn’t get him a Wladimir fight.. it got him fights with contenders like Wach and Adamek, who he had no prayer in HELL or beating.

It shows that beating an ATG doesn’t make you great… Mike Tyson refused to fight the Klitschkos. Tyson would rather fight guys like McBride or Danny Williams—guys who the Klitschkos knocked out. They knocked Mike Tyson out.

They got title shots… McBride didn’t get one… Who did Alfredo Evangelista beat? No former heavyweight champions or contenders … Evangelista’s fight with Muhammad Ali won the Nobel Peace Prize for Promoting Non-Violence in Boxing … It was a low grade pillow fight.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:37 pm 


Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

WK is a Top 3 ATG HW right now, as we speak. But if he continues to win fights for the next 4-5 years and maintains all his titles, many fans will consider him the GOAT.

Because at this point, he will hold the all-time HW record for consecutive number of title defenses and will also have the best win-loss record of all time (HWs). And it will be very difficult to dispute the legitimacy of those accolades, as they’re paramount — above all else.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:28 pm

Lion King. Good to hear you ROAR back in these boards.
I too am a fan of Wlad (even more than of Vitali).
However, I must disagree with you re the WON-LOSS record.

No Heavyweight champion will have a better won-loss record than ROCKY MARCIANO, because his figures of 49-0 equates to 100%. Off my head I believe this included 43 KO’s… TARK will correct me on this if I’m wrong.

This is why The Brockton Blockbuster is held by many in so high esteem and is why we had all the fuss when the great Larry Holmes was breathing down on it before he ran into the road block of Mike Spinks.

Wins and losses shouldn’t be the be-all and end all when rating the greats as I believe longevity, quality of opposition, dominating the division or divisions mean as much or even more, or transcending the very sport and being etched on the public’s imagination.

Wlad could be round long enough to break the all-time divisional record of 25 defences by Joe Louis, he may be round long enough to rake up the most wins by a champion, but no one unless this current crop surprises us will retire as champion and undefeated like Rocky Marciano!

Posted April 21, 2014 3:35 pm 


I am not racist at all, I can recognize Wlad is pretty much unbeatable at the moment. But that does not make him an all time great. He is great for his generation but his opponents are not that great and then they have had to recycle opponents just to fight him again. And then on top of that the fighters he actually lost to, the skill level of them was terrible. Yes Wlad is a great but he is not an all time great.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:33 pm 


The truth of the matter is 99% of those that bash klitschko does not look like him, the truth hurts but it’s a fact and when those numbers are that disportionly lopsided you can bet a large portion of those haters are racist.

Lets be honest, thats all I’m saying.

In some respect s Mayweather gets the same treatment as a result of the same.

Sorry boy’s it true and you know it.

I’m done talking about peace out.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:27 pm 


Ah and Gonzo the man that wants to take me from behind for some reason is back. Gonzo you are the same as some of these idiots that actually think Wlad is in the top 5 or even 10 of all time great fighters. Just an idiot. But its ok DragonQueer

Posted April 21, 2014 3:26 pm 


Prince I think real fans here that know anything about boxing know whos been smoking a little too much weed in the back room, and has delusional thoughts. No Brock and Wach were not bums. Not great fighters, good, but certainly not bums. So when were you in the ring with them?

Posted April 21, 2014 3:21 pm 


In one ear and out the other for most.

I find it mildly entertaining and funny with some comments, do you really think if you lie and say klitschko basically sucks that grown adults will even entertain such rubbish ??

You may be successful with causal low information boxing fan’s and or people that have a deep seated hatred for change, maybe you can try to convince use cow’s can fly aswell but most boxing fans see thru people whom cant be intellectually honest.

I hate bhop and think his fighting style sucks but would never say he isn’t a talented guy and try to diminish his accomplishments in the ring.

Mayweather is a little different, bhop fights the best so I respect bhop more than floyd.

I cant say anything bad over all about the kbros, their the best of their time.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:21 pm 


So Wach & Brock were no bums? People who say that really have no clue about boxing. But keep idolizing Wlad and get excitied when he hugs his C-level opponnents the whole time.Me not liking him has nothing to do with him being white or Ukrainian or whatever, his figths are boring as hell and he hardly ever faces good competition. Period!

Posted April 21, 2014 3:16 pm 


I’m not going to but I’m sure I can go thru all the past champs and find a loss on most of their records against less than spectacular opponents, especially earlier in their professional career.

Some willy the wineos will do anything and everything possible to discredit a klitschko, the real question is why are these individuals some desperate and angered at Wladmir s dominance ?

Lol, to funny.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:08 pm 


There is some bums on here that will always argue even when their 100% wrong and no leg to stand on. Hint texas.

Going back 10 year’s to look at a loss and discredit 10 years of dominance is weak and makes some look undeniably silly and fraudulent.

Some posters just cant except being wrong and will argue even when they have been proven 100% wrong and still come back with lame desperate silly arguments. Lol to funny.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:02 pm 


TARK is correct too.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:56 pm 


If Joe Louis is Top 10, so is Wlad…

Posted April 21, 2014 2:55 pm 


Kevin McBride is garbage.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:51 pm 


I could care less about how many title defenses Wlad has. He has them against bums for the most part. You are delusional if you actually think Wlad is top 5. The man was beat by Corry Sanders and Lamont Brewster come one now. And he has other losses that are pretty terrible and they would of never beaten any of the greats. Sorry. Wlad is not top 5 nor close to it.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:50 pm 


You can’t call Mariusz Wach a bum. That’s ridiculous.

David Haye called Wach a dangerous puncher and toughest man he ever exchanged punches with, “I don’t think anybody could knock Wach out with a baseball bat” said Haye.

Wach was an undefeated (27-0) and a huge 250 X 6’7.5” puncher with an iron chin when he faced Wladimir. Wach KO’d Kevin McBride in scary fashion, icing him with a single shot in the 4th round. McBride had gone 12 rounds with Tomasz Adamek 3 months earlier and beat Mike Tyson. McBride wasn’t skilled, but at 280lbs he was able to take Mike Tyson’s best punches easily. Wach’s best punch damn near killed him. I’m not saying McBride is any good, but he would never get a chance to fight Wladimir.

If Waldimir faced any bums, they weren’t as bummy as some of the guys Ali fought, such as Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn, or Alfredo Evangelista.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:44 pm 


keep the hw circus rolling.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:44 pm 


ahm, … Putins pet

Posted April 21, 2014 2:32 pm 


with Putin acting weird like now, maybe Wlads fight vs Povetkin (Putin#s peg) was some kind of faked, i.e. maybe Wlad wasn#t allowed to ko Povetkin.
With some distance this fight seems more and more strange to me.
10 years? A long shot. Maybe more a target than an absolute necessity, to have a path, you know.
With that “would have could have” thing I’d be careful. Nobody knows. Sure is, not all of todays hw’s can box but most of them can hit hard. It takes guts to do this for over 60 times now.
I’d like to see Wlad coaching after his active career. He’s the only man in HW with Stewart-like brains. It would only be good for HW-boxing.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:30 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

WK is a Top 3 ATG HW right now, as we speak. But if he continues to win fights for the next 4-5 years and maintains all his titles, many fans will consider him the GOAT.

Because at this point, he will hold the all-time HW record for consecutive number of title defenses and will also have the best win-loss record of all time (HWs). And it will be very difficult to dispute the legitimacy of those accolades, as they’re paramount — above all else.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:28 pm 


Both Fury’s will get him as will A.Joshua.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:27 pm 

The Artist Formerly Known As Prince

@Prince You throw the word bum around a lot. Tony Thompson is no bum. Ibragimov was not a bum. Chagaev neither. Now most of Deontay Wilder’s opponents for instance definitely could come close to fitting that description. Wlad is a bit too white for you to be HW champ, you lack a true history of the game and you’re butthurt. You are a 24 carat genuine moron, lol!

Posted April 21, 2014 2:23 pm 


Anyone who calls Brock and Iggy bums, really doesn’t know boxing. That must mean that Holy was a bum? Maybe you also think that Byrd was a bum? In my opinion anyone that fights for a championship shouldn’t be called a bum. Have anybody on here ever beaten one of these BUMS?

Posted April 21, 2014 2:10 pm 

The Sheriff (Peebles, just kidding)

Giggity Giggity talkie KLITSCHKO V WILDER ONLY FIGHT OUT THERE Giggity Talk walkie

Posted April 21, 2014 2:10 pm 


Mercer was fighting better competition than Foreman fought (4-15 Sorrell right before Frazier) before fighting Frazier for a title. Was Foreman a bum? Mercer fought and won fights for another 6 years after the Wlad fight. Again the question is how did Wlad fight against Mercer? Was it boring? Why do you keep avoiding the question?

Posted April 21, 2014 2:08 pm 

Fight Aficionado

PEEJ you’re deluded if you don’t believe Wlad is top 5. There’s only one heavyweight in history with more title defenses and that’s Joe Louis, whose opponents were worse than Wlad’s. Who is in your top 5?

Posted April 21, 2014 2:00 pm 


Exactly, he is not the greatest heavy of all time nor is he top 5. He is a great though and nobody can beat him. At least not now and I don’t see it happening in the next couple of years. We will see with some of these up and comers but I like that dude Joshua from London or where ever he is from. He looks like he got the goods.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:49 pm 


@the A(sshole) formerly known as…, get a clue man before posting more non-sense. Out of the guys you mentioned only Haye and maybe Povetkin were not bums and I was saying that there were a few exceptions. But I would call Wach, Pianeta, Brock, Austin, Igragimov, Mormeck bums, and his next opponent Leapai isn´t exactly a top tier guy as well but another bum for Wlad to pad his record.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:49 pm 


Did you see his record after Mercer fighting Lennox? He was running off the same record Briggs is doing. Against nobodies. Wlad fought an old Mercer who had no business being in the ring with him

Posted April 21, 2014 1:48 pm 


Rich you are just an idiot. I could care less what color Wlad is. And I could care less if he was American or not. I like GGG. So what is your excuse for me like GGG? He is white and not American. You idiot

Posted April 21, 2014 1:46 pm 


Cassius, your comments are so stupid they can’t be believed. Lets’ say Ali-Spinks anyone?? That is just as stupid a statement, doesn’t mean Ali’s not great right. and all three of the fighters you mentioned would have KO’s Leon in short order. Again, so Ali is not great??

Posted April 21, 2014 1:38 pm 

K2 Fan

Another Klitchko fight and another rash of comments , by
assorted loonies , ranging from ridiculous comparisons ; how a ” prime ” Hollyfield would obliterate Wlad , or how
Ali would ” knock him out ” etc ., to accusations of steroid use , ” leaning ” , clinching , whatever …. Admittedly , there are fewer and fewer of those REALLY fervent haters , so the few that are left , have to work overtime ! I do agree with some of you though , that Wlad is not the greatest . The greatest is Vitaly , whom NOBODY could beat ! Whom NOBODY , could even knock down , let alone knock OUT ! And who avoided or ducked NO ONE !
Wlad is the second greatest !

Posted April 21, 2014 1:26 pm 


Hats off to the brothers but the heavy weight is so weak right now the last real champ was Lennox Lewis . But why haven’t they made the Olympic style drug testing a must just saying

Posted April 21, 2014 1:24 pm 


Wlad gets a lot of stick for his style, but Stewart made him this way and it works.
The best approach is to try and unsettle him from the start, so maybe Fury or Wilder have a long shot at beating him, but Wlad is also more mature and can recover better as shown against Peters.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:16 pm 


Brewster-Wlad 1, Corrie Sanders/Wlad, Ross Puritty/Wlad, NO WAY Wlad is a Heavyweight ATG, even not into the top 50 because of his lack of heart during those three bouts, a quitter and very weak mentally, and a coward during his last circus show with Povetkin

Wilder will KO him in round 1 or 2, easily, mark my words bunch of euro-f%ckhe@ds!

Posted April 21, 2014 1:05 pm 


Why not. Bernard has done a lot for Boxing for older fighters……He has created a new meaning to retire…..

Posted April 21, 2014 1:01 pm 


Wlad is not the greatest heavyweight of all time, but by any reasonable standards he’s a very good one…

Posted April 21, 2014 12:31 pm 


I agree with peej that Wlad is not the greatest heavyweight of all time. This is absolutely by no means a knock on Wlad or his accomplishments but he really hasn’t fought anyone in years who has the size, skill set and toughness to take his shots, counter them and fight back. Sanders was able to do it. Yes Wlad uses his size to great advantage as well he should but the vast majority of his defenses have come against way too many novices – guys who no way should have been as highly ranked as they were when Wlad fought them. I always get the feeling that Wlad is just one solid shot away from being short circuited but the guys he has been defending against were often way too one demensional whether they had power or not. Wilder is NOT the answer.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:21 pm 


I brought up a Mercer that hadn’t lost for over 6 years, and that was in a very close decision to Lennox, and had never been knocked down up to the Wlad fight, so next argument. Besides what does that have to do with how Wlad fought? Did Wlad fight boring in that fight?

Posted April 21, 2014 12:19 pm 


Mercer, you brought up a very old Mercer. lol

Posted April 21, 2014 12:02 pm 


When is the last time anyone saw Wlad in the least panic? Did he panic almost 8 years ago when Peter knocked him down, twice with rabbit punches, answer no, or when Haye caught him clean in round 12 of their fight, again no. Get over it people he hasn’t been off his feet in 8 years, and he has been in there with the hardest punchers in the division. Big men look awkward when they are hit and staggered, deal with it.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:01 pm 


Wlad has had two boring fights Iggy and Povetkin. Go back and watch him against fighters like Mercer before he trained under Steward he never had a boring fight. Wach was not boring, nor were either of the Thompson fights, nor Austin or any of his other fights. Ali had his share of boring love fest also. Tell me what other fights you think Wlad has had that were boring?? Because he is the best and makes it look easy doesn’t make it boring to those of us that appreciate the science. I also don’t think Mayweather or Hopkins are boring. Not enough power in them, unlike Wlad, but they win based on skills and using their mind. Why would you throw out your advantages??

Posted April 21, 2014 11:56 am 

The Artist Formerly Known As Prince

@Prince He doesn’t ‘mainly fight bums’ as you disrespectfully put it, but anyone could say the same about Ali and Louis and Larry Holmes. Klitschko has beaten Haye, Chagaev, Thompson twice and Povetkin in the last few years. He will fight Pulev. You’re not worth talking to.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:50 am 


@Thurmal Underwear, no double standard as Floyd does not hug his opponent all night long and does not panic when he gets tagged unlike Wlad!

Posted April 21, 2014 11:45 am 


I don’t really see Wlad being anything different or called anything different if he was a different race or color. Heck Lewis was more exciting that Wlad and it is not like he was super liked everywhere and nobody was really saying he was exciting, especially once Steward started training him. Wlad doesn’t throw many punches and he just leans on his opponents. Really no action in any of his fights.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:43 am 


@the artist formerly known…, it is neither of it. He is boring, mainly fights bums and has a very unattractive style of fighting. Has nothing to do with his nationality or skin color. For instance, I like Pulev who has a more attractive style. He is white and from Eastern Europe.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:42 am 


will be whipped by tyson fury

Posted April 21, 2014 11:40 am 

Anonymous Dave

Ten years? Wow, that could be 5 or even 6 more fights at the rate he’s going.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:35 am 

Ayatollah Khan

Ten years is mighty ambitious and there are a new generation of hungry fighters coming through such as Wilder and Joshua, I’m not sure he beats either of them at 40 years old. He deserves a lot of respect though if he continues his career for even half that time.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:30 am 

sean p h

Wlad makes about 15 milion a fight and just made 22 million in his last fight. Both wlad and floyd are boring fighters. They are pureboxers

Posted April 21, 2014 11:29 am 

The Artist Formerly Known As Prince

@Prince Yes. I was replying to whoever said Wlad didn’t avenge any of his losses. Wlad beat Lamon Brewster in a rematch. Me thinks you don’t like Wlad largely because he is white and heavyweight champion…or because he’s Eastern European. Which is it?

Posted April 21, 2014 11:21 am 


@eddie, Ali and Mayweather are more entertaining that either Klit. Besides, Floyd earns more money than either Klit due to the fact that more people are interested in watching him fight than one of the boring brothers!

Posted April 21, 2014 11:12 am 


@the artist formerly known as prince, wlad never had a rematch with Sanders and Puritty! Lewis for instance, who was a real champion, avengend all of his losses.

Posted April 21, 2014 11:09 am 


@love the sport, I could not agree more. The Klitschkos are so boring that no one wants to watch them. Luckily, there is only one left as Vitali has retired. They will have a horrible legacy as they only fought bums with two or three notable exceptions!

Posted April 21, 2014 11:07 am 

The Artist Formerly Known As Prince

Wlad beat Lamon Brewster in a rematch.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:56 am 


There is no need for a Super Heavy division. What there would be like 4 or 5 boxers in the division. Plus what is gonna be the standard for it? You have to weight a certain amount? You have to be a certain height? Look at small heavies now, some of them can make the weight of under 200lbs but they don’t want to. They want the money that comes with the heavies. They want to become heavyweight champion. All that is gonna happen we will have more out of shape heavies. There is no need for a super heavy division.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:55 am 


Noooooooo! I respect Wladmir’s fight game but man his style is so ugly and boring. Wladmir will continue to beat up the small Heavyweights(even Deontay) until they make a super heavyweight division and that’s highly doubtful. Lol so this is what we’re stuck with -ten more years of unentertaining heavyweights.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:46 am 


which was *NOT a 10 count..

Posted April 21, 2014 10:38 am 


anonymous – Wladimir has never been on steroids he has always been big. He won gold in superheavyweight in the Olympics in 1996 and has never had any steroids positive results in his life. He’s never been counted out either. The corner threw in the towel during the purity fight (do you even watch any of his fights), the ref waived off the fight after Wladimir was standing during Sanders and the ref waived off as Wladimir was walking back to his corner during Brewster. Brewster and Purity were stamina issues although in the Brewster bout it might have been something more suspicious according to his former trainer Steward and this is why his brother Vitali now hands him his water in his corner since that fight. The only person to beat him by a true TKO which was a 10 count was Sanders. So get your facts straight. Never on steroids nad never counted out. Your whole thing where you are saying the best big men play in nfl in nba is garbage. There is more to boxing than just the heavyweight division. And there is more to heavyweight boxing than just being big. That would be like saying Lebron James would have been a great nfl player had he chose that path rather than basketball. You don’t know that. He may not have the mental fortitude to deal with how rough it is etc. Plus there are other athletic components that are advantages in basketball(jumping) that aren’t that necessary in football and vice versa. Same thing wtih both of these sports compared to boxing. Not only that but when Ali and Foreman and etc were around the Russians and all the former Russian countries you see now like Ukraine weren’t allowed to compete in professional boxing. So I could argue the reason why you see so many other fighters from outside of the coutnry and the reason why Americans dominated so much back when Ali was around was because those countries weren’t allowd to compete professionally.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:36 am 



If Ali had been on steroids like Wlad he would have weighed 230. His reach was 80 inches. Ditto Larry Holmes.

Heavyweights used to weigh lighter and have more aerobic training due to fights being 15 rounds.

Guys like Ali and Larry Holmes ARE NOT small men.That is a myth. Lamon Brewster without steroids would be a smaller guy than someone like Liston who was a VERY stocky guy and he managed to flatten Wlad. Ron Lyle , Jimmy Young and Ali managed to hurt Foreman far more than the so called “new and improved “heavyweights of the 90s.

Unlike Wlad nobody ever counted Ali out .

If you have been kayoed by Ross Puritty , Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster then you are not one of the three greatest heavyweights in history. Wlad needed his older brother to defeat the guys who stopped him. Three unavenged kayo losses .

Despite this I rate Wlad. He can box and is always in superb physical condition. He would not be an easy fight for anyone .

The people who claim boxing is now a “world sport ” need to realise that no heavyweight with athletic ability would take up boxing now days in the USA. The best big men now play NFL and basketball. The NFL and NBA were small potatoes until the 1990s.

For all the gloating by Euro fans about the superiority of the Eastern Bloc they didnt actually win many heavyweight gold medals at the Olympics did they ? Teo Stevenson was not a European ;)

Posted April 20, 2014 8:06 pm

Good points Reality. Food for thought.

Posted April 21, 2014 10:16 am 


Class=vlad…… Auto spell argh……

Posted April 21, 2014 9:57 am 


dont forget Lewis was old and fat when he beat Klitschko, Lewis in his prime had fast hands, id say class jab was faster but that’s it.

Posted April 21, 2014 9:56 am 


Great news. Bloody great. I’m off to put the kettle on

Posted April 21, 2014 9:52 am 

largo is back

@largo Hey, you got the Pacquiao-Bradley call waaayyy wrong, buddy!

Posted April 21, 2014 9:25 am 


‘I personally still consider you a joke.”…that’s a shame, piechucker, because I actually like you.

Posted April 21, 2014 9:22 am 


As long as Wlad keeps beating all those Brit bums, I don’t mind!

Posted April 21, 2014 8:14 am 

The Artist Formerly Known As Prince

Wladimir Klitschko is probably the greatest Heavyweight Champion ever.

Posted April 21, 2014 8:11 am 


great news for finland and germany.

Posted April 21, 2014 7:59 am 


very true.

Posted April 21, 2014 7:47 am 


I think HBO has decided that Klitschko is not worthing watching. The upcoming fight is so bad — it is going to be carried by ESPN.

Nobody in the US wants to watch this guy … between the two Klitschko brothers there has not been an interesting fight since Lennox Lewis fought Vitali.

They can keep fighting if they want … but so is Roy Jones. No one cares.

Posted April 21, 2014 7:25 am 


If you want clinching, look at Ali from the 70’s and if you need help dropping off to sleep, look at Floyd’s snoozers in the present day, zzzzzzzzzz…

Posted April 21, 2014 7:23 am 


Great, another ten years of boredom and lots of clinching! Thanks Wlad!

Posted April 21, 2014 6:55 am 


Bill Patrice Jones has the beat, more or less, pretty much on point…:)

Posted April 21, 2014 6:37 am 


they take peds like smarties today,so ten years is nothing.

Posted April 21, 2014 6:11 am 


Right on bill Patrice johns , great post!

Posted April 21, 2014 6:04 am 

Bill Patrice Jones

I will be very sad when Wladimir retires and want to see him in more fights; however, why the hell would he fight for another 10 years unless he is insanely greedy? He has nothing left to prove besides maybe unifying the WBC belt aswell. Since that remains highly unlikely given that whomever holds the WBC belt will likely be wise enough to keep it in their possession and earn 500,000 or so per title defense and not cash out to Wladimir and ruin their career for 2-5 million. Stiverne, under Don King, and Arreola will likely not want to make the mistake Samuel Peter and Ruslan Chagaev made of offering up their titles to a Klitschko in a hurried title match. Even then the other sanctioning bodies will try as best they can to ensure total unification never happens. What does Wladimir even gain by winning the WBC belt? No one in their right minds thinks that belt holder has a claim on the lineal championship? Wladimir has everything to lose, besides money, and little to gain by trying to defeat; Fury, Wilder, Stiverne, etc. There are alot of highly motivated young and fresh heavyweights who will not be easy for Wladimir to dismiss. He conquered his era. He beat; David Haye (reigning WBA champ former undisputed cruiserweight champ) Samuel Peter twice (top contender and former WBC champion), contenders Eddie Chambers, Tony Thompson, Ray Austin, Lamon Brewster (former WBO champion), Ruslan Chagaev (former WBA champion), Chris Byrd twice (reigning IBF champion and no 1 fighter in division in 2006). He unified 3 belts, achieved number one, broke numerous long standing heavyweight records. Built a title defense list close to Joe Louis’ and did all he really could to silence critics. I don’t see he has much to gain fighting on. Unless like I said he just wants to keep making the 3-6million bank a fight brings.

Posted April 21, 2014 5:58 am 


Wlad is an ATG Heavyweight Champ. TopTen. I rate him pretty highly.overall. I wouldn’t have him Top 3 right now, that’s too high in my opinion because he didn’t fight over 15 rounds, he lost a couple of fights by KO in his prime years which affect his standing (in my mind) and he didn’t come through many hard give-and-take fights like Ali and Holmes etc did. Of course, Wlad doesn’t believe in taking punishment, but dishes it out! With a 61-3 record Wlad has the numbers to back him up though if you want to make a case for him and he definitely deserves respect for it. He has been #1 and held basically the lion’s share of the crown for a long time. He’s been the Champ a while. He’s not lost a fight for 10 years. If you could put the younger Wlad’s attacking capabilities with the older Wlad’s control and technique, you might have the best HW ever. I don’t like his excessive holding and leaning on top of and all over his opponents either, but it’s up to the refs to check that. He learned all that from Manny Steward who taught it to Lennox Lewis too! Neither Lenny or Wlad had the best chin, so Manny taught them to use their physical advantages. I wouldn’t have WK as high in a list of Top 10 Heavyweight fighters purely H2H, but as a champ, Wladimir Klitschko is certainly right up there. Wlad’s career isn’t over and IF he does go, say, another 3-5 years unbeaten, while taking care of the best guys available, he is, for sure, one of the best ever.

Posted April 21, 2014 5:49 am 


Sure maybe he could maybe not the the fact is Povetkin couldn’t do shieet to him and wlad got a win in an easy way against a top contender Povetkin .

Posted April 21, 2014 5:43 am 


Adrian, Vlad could and should have knocked Povetkin out. Pov was already performing the funny dance routine, but Vlad decided to hug him through the rest of the 12 rounds. Manny would have punched him in the face for such a performance.

Posted April 21, 2014 5:36 am 


Lenin yeah damn that Ukrainian klitchko for knocking most of his opponents by “leaning “lol …

Oh and too bad that Russian povetking let klitchkos become his resting sofa .hahahahahahahah!

Posted April 21, 2014 5:30 am 


Lеnin ,Lеwis hug Туson аll thе timе in 2002.

Маnу stеwаrd ,thеll to Lеnnox just knock this mothеr f….r 0ut

Posted April 21, 2014 3:57 am 


Vlad’s song for his ring entrance should be “Lean on me”. At least that’s what I thought when he “fought” Povetkin. Don’t get me wrong, I like Vladimir, but sometimes he plainly REFUSES to knock his opponent out and instead hugs him to death and, well, leans on him.

Posted April 21, 2014 3:43 am 


I hope Wlad retires soon, so then we can sit back and pretend that the best of Fury, Arreola and Wilder is the champ, when we would all know deep down that Wlad would destroy each of them on the same night, even as an old man. What a joke for those who want him to retire so they can pretend that another guy they lack is the best…….LOL

Posted April 21, 2014 3:35 am 


largo – remember your pick of Bradley to KO pacman? so why have you returned? did you acknowledge your f.uck up? I assume you did as the mockery of you that has been so prevelent has eased off a bit. I personally still consider you a joke.

Posted April 21, 2014 2:49 am 


@Rod You make some great points about 14/15 fights that you would like to see wlad take. agree 100%

Posted April 21, 2014 2:02 am 


Largo… Your’s might be good… but your analysis doesn’t compare to mine… The worst pickers I’ve ever seen are Vivek and Boxtra.. They usually pick the same losers.. Boxtra picked Paulie to beat Porter. Vivek picked Angulo to beat Canelo. That’s just a for instance because those were super easy picks.

The best picker I’ve ever seen, other than myself, is Kid Blast. I get over 80% of bets correct and have been betting with “house money” since the 80’s. Before that I had a few years where I ran around even, a little ahead, or a little in the red. It would change yearly.

Mostly you get them wrong because you like or dislike one guy so you’re not seeing the true picture.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:29 am 


Largo the reason I was asking you about your wrong prediction was because you were so sure the ko would happen and you and me had a deal that if you were right I would give you credit in here right after a fight but if you are wrong you should give credit to paqiao you remember?

So is paqiao shot like you said before or is he still good?

Posted April 21, 2014 1:26 am 


“@ largo,do you have any comments about your wrong prediction that Bradley would ko PAC ?”…yes I do; when you make a prediction, you’ll be either right or wrong & I was wrong. so what? I’ve been right many, many times before…in fact, I think nobody has my win/lose record…not even TARK or BOXTRA. If you care enough you should check it out. In fact, I’m challenging you. check it out.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:11 am 

sean p h

Wlad is an atg champ and a class act.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:06 am 


Wlаd hаs ,,sicrеt diеt” Маnу vеgis аlot protеin- (fish, chikеn, pork-bееf)…..

Не don’t smokе аnd drink but, likе grееk uzo аnd winе somе timе.

Posted April 21, 2014 1:02 am 


iceman says.., “when the fk have people ever aged the same?”

When they have great discipline, don’t get hit a lot, want to keep improving their game, and don’t take PEDs. That’s when they age about the same … Floyd is aging well too… He recently said, “I think I can get better.”

Posted April 21, 2014 12:44 am 


Holyfield wouldn’t be able to get in the ring with Wlad as modern drug tests would have caught him way before fight night. Lewis would have negated his holding and pushing down so would have given him a better test than he’s faced ever. But you’ve to think Manny would have to coach each guy for them to be at their best for the fight, I think Lewis would catch Wlad with some of those sweet left hooks and that would be good night. Like someone said if other boxers had the skills to negate the holding style that wears these fighters down to KO or an easy decision Wlad would have to do something else but why break a winning formula?! Wlad is a very intelligent guy and could likely adapt to styles that can take this away form him but it doesn’t look like we’re going to see this anytime soon, certainly not with Leapai, easy nights work, the best fight there is on the undercard with Jospeh Parker stepping up to face the tank.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:38 am 


I never liked holyfield…..but your analysis is so screwed um thinking maybe you trolling? Lol I mean how can you say “Holyfield was beaten by John Ruiz way before he was Wladimir’s age” I mean since when the fk have people ever aged the same?

Posted April 21, 2014 12:36 am 


I would like to see 2014/15 wlad fight wilder and fury, two men his size if not taller, pulev a skilled heavy who has proven himself and also the winner of stiverne vs arreola. I still think he would take all of them.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:33 am 


if he keeps fighting people like leapai he will retain his belt well into his 60s

Posted April 21, 2014 12:30 am 


Holyfield couldn’t even beat that big fat punching bag Riddick Bowe 2 out of 3… Evander got knocked out by Bowe, the putz who refused to fight Lewis… Even “one round” Andrew Golota beat the fk out of Bowe, and Holyfield couldn’t handle him.

Holyfield was beaten by John Ruiz way before he was Wladimir’s age… Holyfield was knocked out by middleweight champion James Toney… Holyfield lost every round to Larry Donald a man who suffered his only KO loss to Vitali Klitschko… Holyfield wouldn’t have a prayer vs Wladimir on the best day he ever saw. Holyfield was loaded with PEDs for his many defeats… His fake PED procuring name was Evan Fields.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:27 am 


Pulеv! Pulеv will upsеt Wlаd

Posted April 21, 2014 12:23 am 


@ largo,do you have any comments about your wrong prediction that Bradley would ko PAC ? It’s funny how you and peej were nowhere to be found after Bradley loss to paqiao but you are the first ones to jump in here to hate klitchko ? Why is that? Does it hurt to see someone else getting praised as greats other than mayweather ?

Posted April 21, 2014 12:18 am 


In 10 years wilder will still be fighting homeless men and his record will be 150-0 150ko’s.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:17 am 


Bent out of shape because their big powerful heavyweights like Deontay Wilder and Bryant Jenning aren’t being put at risk to date.. They’ve been pros long enough to start facing real competition and bite the bullet.

Lewis bit it… Wladimir bit it… Vitali bit it… Fight somebody super tough.

Posted April 21, 2014 12:17 am 



Wlad is not even close to the greatest ever. If there was a prime Holyfield type fighter around he would beat Wlad.

Posted April 20, 2014 3:52 pm

Lmao!!!! Strange how there is no one like “Holyfield ” for a decade now? Lol …
And in joe Louis time when he ruled a hw devision for years was it because there were no ” Holyfield’s ” in that era too or was it because Louis was that good? Then you first post was ” no he won’t ” really? Why do you think klitchko won’t achieve that ? Do you think because there is someone good to beat klitchko if so name him…

Posted April 21, 2014 12:12 am 


Look at all the yanks all bent out of shape

Posted April 21, 2014 12:04 am 

Gonzo the Dragonborn.. It’s Lonely up Here on Tier One.

Edit> Trust me there’s a lot more to Ramtha than a pretty face.

Posted April 20, 2014 11:51 pm 

Mark Rudd

People talk about Wlad’s chin not holding up to Lennox, which could be true because Lennox could really punch, but what about Lennox’s chin holding up to Wlad? I’ve seen Lennox get hurt much worse than Wlad ever did.

Wlad lost a couple to exhaustion and another to a lefty with a big punch. Let’s not forget that Lennox got sparked by Hasim Rachman.

Posted April 20, 2014 11:49 pm 


Wilder beats him today…

Posted April 20, 2014 11:28 pm 


Except clueless fans like yourself.

Posted April 20, 2014 11:17 pm 


Nobody’s looking forward to this guy fights…NOBODY.

Posted April 20, 2014 11:15 pm 


A negative fighter if ever was one…who you think you’re kidding?

Posted April 20, 2014 11:13 pm 


Squared Circle, who wants to watch this f’n guy for more than 1 round? who are you’re kidding? I challenge you to watch his last fight a whole afternoon with your buddies…go ahead & let me know how it goes…

Posted April 20, 2014 11:11 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

“Wlad is the worst thing that had happened to Boxing in the whole history of the sport…I’ve not seen anybody being more afraid to get hit…”

Oh… but when FMJ does everything is his power to avoid getting hit you call him a genius, boxing virtuoso, and master of the sweet science. Double standard much?

Posted April 20, 2014 10:55 pm 

Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. LionKing)

Even if Wlad fights for another 5 years and keeps all his titles, he will retire as the most accomplished and decorated HW in boxing history. That’s the equivalent of being the best.

He will have set the all-time HW record for number of consecutive title defenses. And his win-loss record will something totally ridiculous like 72-3 (58 KOs) — the best ever.

At that point, it will be extremely difficult for haters like PEEJ to argue that WK is not the GOAT — or a Top 3 ATG HW at the very least. They’ll be standing on very thin arguments with nothing but weak facts to back them up. This is a worst nightmare come true for most Afro-American boxing fans. Accept it like a real man and live with it!

Posted April 20, 2014 10:52 pm 


Wlad is the worst thing that had happened to Boxing in the whole history of the sport…I’ve not seen anybody being more afraid to get hit…Anybody who wants to suggest that this total negative fighter deserves any mention among the greats, should be subjected to the torture of watching his last fight for two days in a row…

Posted April 20, 2014 10:48 pm 

Who cares

I really hope Wladimor will retire soon…he is painfully boring to watch. His fight against Povotkin was disgraceful. He has had the priviledge of being bigger than 90% of the opponents he’s faced and has reigned in the weakest era in heavyweight boxing. It’s amazing that people actually consider him one of the best heavyweights of all time. You ask the average American who he is or who the heavyweight champion is right now and they couldn’t tell you. I only hope that Wilder or Stivern turn out to be the goods and beat WK into retirement so the division can get some fresh blood pumped it. I don’t think WK is a bad guy but he’s bad for boxing. Heavyweight title fights used to mean something but those days are gone.

Posted April 20, 2014 10:46 pm 


you’re an idiot.

Posted April 20, 2014 9:53 pm 


@ iceman – Thank you very much for your analysis…. finally someone who understands the real issue thw HW division today. Lack of skills!!! As much as I can’t stand to watch Wlad grab and hold at even the slightest sign of danger, it upsets me even more the fact that noone has the skills to negate the hugging. Has anyone heard of a body attack, a proper jab, a combination that consists or more than a one-two? Watching Wlad’s last fight, Povetkin was clueless. If you watch the Mormeck fight, Mormeck was able to get inside at will, but only threw a total of 2 punches in the first round. I sincerely hope that Leapai will come with at least some form of gameplan… ie chin tucked and get right into wlad’s chest….. and throw some freakin punches!!!!!!

Posted April 20, 2014 9:30 pm 


Its a myth vlad is faster than Lewis, Lewis had better hand speed.

Posted April 20, 2014 9:18 pm 


I think its pretty damn ignorant to think that heavyweights have improved, yes they are bigger and fatter but they don’t have the skill, ring smarts, fitness and most importantly the training, actual boxing training has gone backwards.

Posted April 20, 2014 9:12 pm 


Ali was probably on steroids… It was the steriod era… They were completely legal for much of Ali’s career and no tests were being done to prevent their usage. That’s why Ali’s physique was so inconsistent, he had so many physical problems, and he burned out so fast..

Same with Frazier.. Joe had problems with his organs and burned out in a big hurry. So did his son Marvis.. Steroids may have had a lot to do with that.

Wladimir doesn’t need them and he knows they’re horrible on the body.. He makes sure to eat right and sleep right.. He has much stronger discipline.. He doesn’t get fat between fights like Ali did.. When Ali was 36 Leon Stinks beat him…. When Ali was 38 he lost every minute of every round to Larry Holmes and quit in his corner a tired old man.

Wladimir is 38 and says he’s better than ever. Technically he’s made the greatest strides in the last 10 years. Bringing on Steward, the master of the stance, footwork, and jab had a lot to do with that. Manny brought the feet closer, the head back, hands down, and got the footwork going.

Too bad Steward wasn’t a genius as infighting or body attacking. Nobody’s perfect, but hardley anyone has been able to penetrate Wladimir’s defense since 2008.

Ali absorbed a lot of punishment because he never had a Steward to clean up his defense like Wlad had.

Posted April 20, 2014 8:57 pm 


Fury has the best chance of beating Wlad…

Posted April 20, 2014 8:55 pm 


People talk about Lennox stopping Wlad, but seem to forget Lennox was KO, stopped, counted out, unlike Wlad, who always finished on his feet. Yes Lennox could stop Wlad, but it is more likely a faster stronger Wlad would stop Lennox. Haye and Peter all hit as hard if not harder than Lewis, neither of them stopped Wlad. Wlad was never knocked down even once in 140 amateur fights. I pick Wlad 7 out of 10 times, but it is just an opinion and we will never know, since it will never happen. So all we can do with any champion is look at their body of work, longevity, etc. during their reign. From this perspective Wlad is top 5 now and will likely retire as top 2-3.

Posted April 20, 2014 8:50 pm 


Appearantly Reality you need to come back to reality. Wlad was never once counted out, just like Ali. Ali was stopped, just like Wlad. Wlad was never knocked out and by a 180lb. fighter and saved by a cut glove. Brewster never flattened Wlad, watch the fight again. Ali was stopped and lost the championship to a 6 fight novice. The point is you can nitpick every champion. There is no evidence that Wlad or Lamont ever did steroids. Get out of your fantasy land and back to earth. You have proof show it, put up or shut up.

Posted April 20, 2014 8:35 pm 

Oh Yeah

Leapai is going to shock the world. Left uppercut followed by an overhand right. Fight finished with Wlad scrambling on his back like a turtle. You heard it here first, go and clean out those bookies and make some easy money.

Posted April 20, 2014 8:20 pm 


If Ali had been on steroids like Wlad he would have weighed 230. His reach was 80 inches. Ditto Larry Holmes.

Heavyweights used to weigh lighter and have more aerobic training due to fights being 15 rounds.

Guys like Ali and Larry Holmes ARE NOT small men.That is a myth. Lamon Brewster without steroids would be a smaller guy than someone like Liston who was a VERY stocky guy and he managed to flatten Wlad. Ron Lyle , Jimmy Young and Ali managed to hurt Foreman far more than the so called “new and improved “heavyweights of the 90s.

Unlike Wlad nobody ever counted Ali out .

If you have been kayoed by Ross Puritty , Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster then you are not one of the three greatest heavyweights in history. Wlad needed his older brother to defeat the guys who stopped him. Three unavenged kayo losses .

Despite this I rate Wlad. He can box and is always in superb physical condition. He would not be an easy fight for anyone .

The people who claim boxing is now a “world sport ” need to realise that no heavyweight with athletic ability would take up boxing now days in the USA. The best big men now play NFL and basketball. The NFL and NBA were small potatoes until the 1990s.

For all the gloating by Euro fans about the superiority of the Eastern Bloc they didnt actually win many heavyweight gold medals at the Olympics did they ? Teo Stevenson was not a European ;)

Posted April 20, 2014 8:06 pm 


10 more years of this f/ucking octopus?

Posted April 20, 2014 8:03 pm 


I like and respect Wlad. He’s the most skilled HW today. And his footwork is absurdly underrated. But if he ever fought outside of Germany where the ref wouldn’t allow him to lay on his opponent’s back all f*cking night long, he could be in for a very long (or short) night. The same way Ali got away with holding excessively in the 70s because he was a legend, Wlad gets away with it because he’s a superstar in Germany.

Posted April 20, 2014 7:58 pm 


IF he Boxes for another 10 years then hopefully another Top 10 P4P HW emerges before he retires SO that we can see him against Top 10 P4P competition.

Posted April 20, 2014 7:54 pm 


Everyone bags him but he fights everyone and guys with no or very few losses if you check his record. Our boy will struggle against iron fist in a few weeks. Only a punchers chance in the first four

Posted April 20, 2014 7:49 pm 


wlads top 3 alltime all day. the only guys with a good chance against a peak wlad are vitaly and lennox. foreman is wide open and gets lit up same with holyfield gets stopped by jabs and strait rights

Posted April 20, 2014 7:33 pm 


great ! 10 more years of holding hugging pushing down on opponents heads stiff arming by a man bigger and stronger and faster and more IMPORTANTLY SCARED OF ALL HIS OPPONENTS !

Posted April 20, 2014 7:24 pm 

Neil (Pomy)

good for him

Posted April 20, 2014 7:03 pm 


UD, with Wladmir s power anything is possible, wlad can really punch, but I think Lewis’s right hand would be to much for Wladmir chin.

I like the klitschko brothers and have a tremendous amout of respect for them (- Wladmir s dreadful last fight).

I hate to admitt it but if i’m not intellectually honest, then what’s the point, i’d like Wladmir to beat Lennox if they fought but Lennox would have knocked Wladmir out more than likely.

I could not see wlad avoiding that right for 12.

Posted April 20, 2014 6:36 pm 


A peak Wladmir may have beat a small Ali, i’m not afraid to say it, just as I told everybody holyfield will not only beat tyson but stop him.

A prime george formen would have ko’d Wladmir not vitili forsue.

A lot of the fighters during the so called golden area were over rated in the heavyweight division, it was just a bunch of Americans fighting each other.

Look now that the sport is global, where’s the Americans for the past 10 year’s.

Lennox lewis would have ko’d Ali in 6

Posted April 20, 2014 6:29 pm 


Never in the mix, lol, 10 years and zero in the lose column, lost a few rounds out of how many bouts ? Breaking records and all with a glass jaw.

To ignore klitschko acomplishments is ignorant at minimum.

Wladmir doesn’t have to beat formen to great, ali beat his azz and is a small heavyweight, but I really like big George, I supported him in his comeback.

I do belive the vitili if he did not retire for four years and be plaque by injury he would have been greater than Wladmir.

The number one thing is you cant take bias Americans or texass dummies word for anything to do with the heavyweights.

I find it interesting that almost all of klitschko s opponent s say a lot of great things about him, chris byrd has said great things about him and many others, but bums that never fought klitschko seem to know better that those azzes he beat up.

To denie the kbros of their significant achievement s is ignorant.

Posted April 20, 2014 6:23 pm 

the voice of reason

‘comparatively weak as todays division is’ ?? compared to what – the 30’s??!!! is this authour some kind of idiot or what? weak! and then he rolls off names like wilder/perez/jennings/pulev/arreola and stiverne – men who would have obliterated the likes of joe louis. unbelievable

Posted April 20, 2014 6:14 pm 

Jake and the fatman

I am a big fan of Wladimir but I think it’s just a passing comment he feels great and at the top of his game right now but we all know he is not going to be fighting till the age of 48, if he does though power to him and respect to anybody that makes a living from boxing IMO they are all warriors

Posted April 20, 2014 6:04 pm 


He is not nor will he ever be in the mix as the greatest heavy of all time. The guys I’ve seen beat him and the guys I’ve seen hurt Wlad don’t compare of some of the past and great heavies. Foreman would of destroyed Wlad. Young or old

Posted April 20, 2014 6:04 pm 


Im not so sure if Lennox could have beaten Wlad, but it would for certain have been a great fight. Wlad started as pro in 1996 so there was plenty of time to make the fight happen, so did Lennox duck Wlad ? Someone like Botha didnt have problems getting fights with the big names.

Posted April 20, 2014 6:01 pm 


Holyfield is one of favorite boxers and would bring it. But wlad is to skilled and holyfield would run into punchs until he gets knocked out.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:57 pm 


Wladimir is one hell of a champion. He is athletic and skilled. I would say five years. He will not lose. He is to good

Posted April 20, 2014 5:52 pm 


hehe bad news for the like of Peej.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:47 pm 


If you say its not possible than your dumb or a reader of the future, no other way to know.

I agree 10 year’s sounds overreacting but 5 years is possible.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:43 pm 


Thats a weird statement, the 10 year thing.

I read were klitschko said he is starting to lose motivation in the fight game.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:41 pm 


Hell no

Posted April 20, 2014 5:39 pm 


Wladmir is not the greatest but he’s in the mix now forsure.

His career isnt over so we will have to judge him after he retires to get an accurate account of his over all career.

He could be the greatest one day, lets wait an see.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:38 pm 


That is delusional thinking on Wladimir’s part… I can guarantee you Wladimir will not go another 10 years before he loses the title. I don’t see him making it past another 3 years but that is possible. The division is too strong, and this cocky statement is going to fire up the opposition, such as unbeaten heavyweights: Deontay Wilder, Tyson Fury, and Bryant Jennings.

Maybe this is Wladimir’s intention. He may want some verbal pushback from guys who are gunning for him. He’s been too nice, and these guys haven’t been able to slam him for being cocky… Running your mouth works.

This clueless pundit says.., “As good as Wladimir is and as comparatively weak as today’s heavyweight division is, there seems to be no fighter around capable of stopping the unified Ring Magazine, IBF, WBA, WBO, IBO ruler from continuing on for as long as he likes.”

NO athlete continues for as long as he likes… That’s stupid.. and the comment that the division is weak is also stupid.. would Jean Pierre Coopman, Brian London, or Alfredo Evangelista get title shots today??? Hell NO.. They would not make decent opponents for Bryant Jennings.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:36 pm 


Biggest fan, oops

Posted April 20, 2014 5:35 pm 


I was the biggest holyfield in the usa but a prime klitschko would beat holyfield from the outside, no way holyfield beat a peak klitschko.

Lennox lewis would of beat Vladimir thou. Not sure about vitili in a rematch.

Holyfield beats every heavyweight except wladimir and vitili, holy would bring it thou, holy was my favorite heavyweight during his prime, I like him much better than wladmir but he wouldn’t beat a prime klitschko fighting at long rangel no way.

Posted April 20, 2014 5:34 pm 

Ring General

Biily, go back to boxing 24 you wanker!!!

Posted April 20, 2014 5:32 pm 


lol @ Anonymous

Posted April 20, 2014 5:06 pm 


pulev must be up next. cool! pulev-wlad 2014

Posted April 20, 2014 5:04 pm 


Why PEEJ, how do you know??? Look at Hopkins. Personally I hope he doesn’t. He is just too good. It is more entertaining to watch good heavyweights fight it out than a great heavy dominate the field. So I hope you are right, but even if he doesn’t he can fight long enough to hold almost every Heavyweight record there is.

Posted April 20, 2014 4:52 pm 


Wlad isn’t gonna be fighting for 10 more years. That is bogus and will never happen.

Posted April 20, 2014 4:49 pm 


Holy, could never beat Wlad. Styles make fights, and Holy doesn’t have the speed, power, or size to beat Wlad. Chris Byrd, Toney, and Moorer all skilled fats small men beat Holy easy in his prime. Holy is great, but just all wrong for Wlad. He couldn’t get on the inside to use his head butts, and good inside game. Once he got in there Wlad is just too strong for him, and would tie him up. Hi inside game and getting bigger men to fight small would not work with Wlad. An easy win all day long for Wlad. Lennox or Bowe would have been fun, but Wlad is faster and stronger than both Lennox and Bowe. anyhow we will never know, but based on longevitiy and body of his work Wlad is certainly top 5 at this time and likely to be top 2-3 when he is done. In my opinion there really is no such thing as GOAT.

Posted April 20, 2014 4:46 pm 

Mike Tyson

Isn’t wad the older brother? The younger Rotherham fough lenux right? Damm he was a fighting android with his eye ball hanging out, LOL So his younger brother is in politic? Ukrain might fall to the Russian and his brother is fighting as the risstances. Heard they was a fist fight in parliament just after he gave a speech there. Something going to happen there civil war is not out of the question or WW3 could happen too.

Posted April 20, 2014 4:34 pm 


PEEJ — With 10 more years of dominance and over 30 title defenses he will be the greatest! Just deal with it. If he continues to dominate for 10 more years then he will be a champ for a total 21 years! How can you beat that?

Posted April 20, 2014 4:31 pm 


Well fact is Wlad is not the greatest. I think a prime Holyfield would handle Wlad but if you don’t cool. We will never be able to find that out. But the fact is he is not the greatest.

Posted April 20, 2014 4:29 pm 

Floyd’s issue

Wlad is one of the best ever, not the young Wlad, but the current Wlad. Great jab, better than power punches of may other heavyweights. He old on the inside like Hopkins. He is very difficult to beat given his size and strengths. I really doubt that a smaller heavyweight like Holyfield (based on today’s standards) has a chance against prime Wlad (trained by Steward). Accept that he is one of the best. Having said that, I think his brother Vitali would beat him. Lewis in his prime probably too…

Posted April 20, 2014 4:03 pm 


Sherman “tank” Williams has been bad mouthing Wlad,claiming he whined about body shots he gave him in sparring and that he was ripe for an upset at the hands of lepai. Not sure what to make of that.

Posted April 20, 2014 3:59 pm 


Wlad is not even close to the greatest ever. If there was a prime Holyfield type fighter around he would beat Wlad.

Posted April 20, 2014 3:52 pm 


He is a great, and maybe the greatest ever. We can enjoy his sportsmanship , and dedication as long As he can perform.
Good luck the greatest heavyweight champion!

Posted April 20, 2014 3:51 pm 


another ten years of top fights then.

Posted April 20, 2014 3:48 pm 


Klitschko can certainly dominate for a fair few years I cant see any hw beating him he is a top quality hw in a era full of poor heavyweights.

Posted April 20, 2014 3:37 pm 

boxin man


Posted April 20, 2014 3:36 pm 



Posted April 20, 2014 3:27 pm 


No he isn’t.

Posted April 20, 2014 3:23 pm 


Wilder beats him very soon…

Posted April 20, 2014 3:21 pm 

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Wladimir Klitschko says he plans on boxing on for another ten years – and guess what, there’s nobody to stop him!

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