12.11.03 – By Elliot Worsell: ‘Ring Magazine’ 122 lb world champion, Fort Worth’s Paulie Ayala 34-2 (12 KO’s), returns to the ring a year after his gallant losing effort to WBC Featherweight champion Erik Morales 12 months ago, as he tackles tough Mexican Edel Ruiz 24-10-3 in his home town on Friday November 14. The 33-year-old Ayala is back down at his natural super bantamweight weight class, and is looking to secure some mouth-watering battles with the likes of the divisions belt holders Manny Pacquaio, Oscar Larios, Mahyar Monshipour and Joan Guzman.
But first the likeable and down to earth Ayala must lock horns with the durable and gutsy Mexican Ruiz, who has gone the 12 round distance with the aforementioned Guzman and a close 8 rounds with Texan Danny Flores, and is renowned for his sturdy chin and unquenchable spirit. The bout is scheduled for 10 hard rounds, and subsequently Paulie’s 122 lb title will not be on the line.
Southpaw Ayala, a world champion at 118 lbs and at 122 lbs, is looking forward to his first fight in his hometown of Fort Worth, Texas since his controversial win over Hugo Dianzo in March 2001. Combining fast hands and feet, stinging body shots and right hooks, and a chin that would attract any passing magnetic force, Ayala, as shown against the great Morales, is a match for anyone in and around the super bantamweight/featherweight divisions. His epic fights with Johnny Tapia and Clarence ‘Bones’ Adams prove testament to this. Paulie Ayala comes to fight, and leaves nothing in the ring.
I had the pleasure of talking to the former ‘Ring Magazine Fighter of the Year’ (1999) from his home in Fort Worth as he prepared for a potentially tricky assignment on Friday night.
Paulie candidly discusses his long, success littered career, his future plans, and his views on events occurring around his weight class.
Q. Firstly Paulie, What do you consider to be your career best performance?
PA. I guess that would have to be the first fight with Johnny Tapia. I think that was my ‘coming out’, the first time I got the recognition that I deserved. And it was also great for the awards that I received, such as fight of the year and fighter of the year (Ring Magazine).
Q. Who do you consider to be your toughest opponent so far in your career?
PA. They’re all tough, but I’d have to say Morales, as I do consider him a great fighter, and I did lose that fight.
It wasn’t the size necessarily; it was a combination of things. Of course the swollen eye that happened early didn’t help, as you need both your eyes, and all your tools against a guy like that. Not making any excuses, but I wasn’t able to see him too well and that led to him catching me with more right hands that I would have liked.
Q. What do you see as your greatest strength?
PA. I wanna say my heart would probably be my greatest strength. I consider myself pretty smart in the ring too, and always in great condition.
Q. Do you think that your quiet and reserved lifestyle and personality has restricted your box office earnings?
PA. Well I can’t really complain about my life, and my last three fights have been good (money) considering. I think it has prevented bigger paydays but then again you can’t please everybody, and the main thing is to win in the ring, and that aspect generates the paydays, not what happens out of the ring. You just have to look at Arturo Gatti and Micky Ward, and neither one of them were really flashy or showy but they got their deserved pay days, and actually their fights weren’t even for a title so that tells you something.
Q. Why the need to move up to featherweight when there were big unification fights at super bantamweight?
PA. Well the opportunity arose, and prior to them stripping me of my title I was able to retain it, and I still maintain ‘The Ring’ title. But it was a no lose situation to be honest, a million dollars and a big fight for the featherweight championship of the world. I took the fight not only for the purse but because I seriously felt I could win the fight.
Q. Why have you now decided to move back down to 122 lbs?
PA. Like I said, I still have that title (The Ring title) and there are a few fights down there that are pretty lucrative. So right now Barrera’s been preoccupied, and that’s the man to fight at featherweight if there’s anybody to fight, so my next move, instead of waiting, is to come back down and try and stir something up down here. I know I can make good money without Barrera, so I’ll look for other good, competitive title fights.
Q. Are you looking fights with guys like Manny Pacquaio, Oscar Larios, Joan Guzman and maybe even Wayne McCullough?
PA. Yeah, Wayne McCullough would be really good, I think that one should be made, and I’ve been hearing talks that maybe Oscar Larios could be a possible fight down the road. Pacquaio’s people have never offered me anything to fight him. I wouldn’t have a problem fighting any of them, whichever one is most lucrative for me, I think they’d all make good fights.
Q. You were linked to a fight with former WBO featherweight champion Scott Harrison before he lost his title to Manuel Medina. What happened to that fight?
PA. Well one time they asked me if I wanted to go to England and fight him before he fights Medina, but for what they were offering it wasn’t worth the risk, given what I already had planned down at junior featherweight. He had all the advantages in his favour, and for what they were offering me it wasn’t worth it. I could make the same dollars fighting a guy in my own weight class for my titles, rather than going abroad and fighting a bigger guy for his belt.
Q. Is the door now shut at featherweight? Or could you return in the future?
PA. If an opportunity arises, then yeah I could move up to that weight again.
Q. How hard for you was it to get rid of your father as trainer after your first world title defeat in Japan?
PA. It was very difficult. Personally it was very difficult, but on a professional level it was a decision that I felt I needed to make in order to continue to go forward and be successful in the ring, because there were some times when he was more of a distraction for me than a help. It was a difficult decision but it was something that I had to do, and of course with the results of what has happened since it was the right move at the right time. With money involved and everything, and boxing being a business too, there’s times when you’ve got to just make the best decisions for yourself and you cant be thinking of everyone else. I have a family and I have to support them and this is my chosen career and how I support them.
Q. You have had many close fights throughout your career, have ever watched them back on tape and felt you were lucky to get one or two?
PA. Yeah I’ve watched em’, but no I come out with the same result each time. I block a lot of shots, a lot more than I’m given credit for, and just because a guy throws a punch doesn’t mean it lands. You only have to look at the De La Hoya thing (De La Hoya – Mosley) the other week. There’s always gonna be different opinions on fights. The main thing in the game is to be on the winning end of a decision, and I do that.
Q. How did you score the De La Hoya – Mosley fight?
PA. I thought Oscar was winning the fight, and I concur with what the announcers and what the punch stats were saying. But y’know, I could also see that the more effective punches were from Mosley. It was close, but I still gave the nod to Oscar, but I ain’t upset or anything that he didn’t get the decision.
Q. Were you annoyed at how Johnny Tapia was treated in your rematch, despite you winning the first fight? Tapia was still treated as the star, the moneymaker and the better fighter.
PA. Oh yeah, but you know with Johnny’s life and stuff, it’s all a big story and he’s overcome a lot of obstacles in and out of the ring. So I wasn’t really disappointed, as I’m happy for Johnny, for what he gives and what he’s been through. I just wish the guy the best now.
I know for a fact that I beat him twice regardless of how close the fights were; I know what I did to beat him twice.
Q. And how do you feel about Tapia’s decision to carry on fighting after going through so many traumas recently?
PA. Well that’s up to them really, him and his wife. He’s a tough guy, and he’s overcome a lot in his life, and if they feel that he’s still healthy and capable of continuing to fight then more power to them. I just wish them the best, and hope that he doesn’t get hurt.
Q. How important has a stable family and partner been during your career?
PA. It’s been very important to me, as it’s provided stability in my career and kept me grounded. Y’know, every time that I see my children or my wife I know why I’m fighting and why I’m doing what I do, because they are my reason.
Q. How refreshing was it to receive your first million-dollar pay day against Morales?
PA. I felt very accomplished to have achieved something like that. For one, being a challenger and never even campaigning in that weight class before, it was a great opportunity for me.
Q. Did the money issue play a big part in your move up to featherweight?
PA. Yeah of course, and also fighting for another world title at another division was very appealing to me, and I also got to retain my Ring title at junior featherweight so it was really a no lose situation. It was pretty much a no-brainer to accept a fight like that.
Q. You are still recognised as the champion at Jr Featherweight according to ‘Ring Magazine’. How important is that title to you?
PA. I rate it very highly, and accept it with honour. Y’know my next fight will be for, and give me the opportunity to defend that title and it’s been a while. But like I said Larios was out of pocket prior to this and Pacquaio has been pre occupied with this Barrera fight and that’s all I want to fight, the best guys in the division. I know they (Ring Magazine) wanted me to defend it against any of the top ten guys but I have to select more appropriately for my own benefit, against either the number one or number two, and they were already taken. I’m just looking at big, big fights now at Jr Featherweight. Rather than just waiting any longer, I’m taking this fight on November 14 to just stay busy and then hopefully I’ll get the opportunity to fight one of the main contenders.
Q. On November 14 you fight Edel Ruiz in your hometown, what do you expect from the Mexican?
PA. I definitely expect to go the distance; he’s a very durable guy. He took Joan Guzman the distance and he’s a pretty good puncher. I hope to hurt Ruiz though, I’m planting down more on my shots now in the gym, and although I’m gonna still remain busy in rounds, I’m also gonna try and stand in there a bit more and put added power in my shots. I’ve concentrated in the past on being more of an active fighter rather than effective, so I’m looking to change it up a little bit and see what I can do.
Q. How pleasing is it to be back fighting in your hometown of Fortworth, Texas?
PA. It’s good. I was afraid I wouldn’t have another chance after that Dianzo fight, and I’m actually looking to make up for that fight because y’know I had a lot of problems going into that fight, with the weight making being the biggest problem. I’ve been trying to maintain that weight since I was 16 years old, and I was 31 and still trying to make bantamweight, it became a problem.
Q. Do you perceive the year layoff you’ve had since the Morales defeat having any effect on you on November 14?
PA. I’m hoping it doesn’t. I stay in the gym all year round, and when I’m in the gym I’m always trying to improve on things. And that’s what I’m hoping we’ll see right here on November 14, I hope I can duplicate the work and changes I’ve been doing in the gym on the night of the fight
Q. If all goes according to plan against Ruiz, ideally when would you like to fight next?
PA. I’d like to be fighting, hopefully in March of next year, the first quarter of the year. And I hope my next fight will be for a title, as I don’t wanna wait around. This was a very slow year for me, and I want to make up for it.
Q. Why did you feel the need to take a year off after the Morales defeat?
PA. Well it wasn’t my fault. It was because there were no fights being offered to me. It wasn’t like I was turning down fights, they were never giving me any kind of purse, they just asked me if I want to fight ‘so and so’, and I was like ‘yeah, how much?’ but those details were never presented to me. Some of the guys around here in the media have tried to say I was refusing fights because of purses, and that’s totally wrong cos’ I was never offered them in the first place.
Q. How would you like to be remembered in the sport once you’ve retired?
PA. As a technical fighter, not the fastest or the biggest puncher but a guy who got in there with the best and never ducked or dodged anyone. Somebody that always did his best.
Q. How did the ‘Paulie Ayala’ day in your hometown come about, and what sort of stuff do you get up to on the day?
PA. Well I received a proclamation after winning the first world title and it became an official day. I’m pleased to have the day in honour of me, and as far as my family and me; we simply celebrate on that day because that was of course the day I won the world title on. We eat as a family and enjoy each other’s company and fellowship.
Q. Have you regretted anything in your career?
PA. No I definitely haven’t regretted anything. I know everything happens for a reason and I’ve learnt from the mistakes I’ve made in and out of the ring and that’s the main thing. I’ve built character on the trials that I’ve been through.
Q. So in the grand scheme of things, the move up to featherweight was the worth the risk then?
PA. Oh no doubt. It was an opportunity and I felt it was a great chance for me and that is why I tried to capitalise on it. I winded up falling short, but my spirits aren’t down, and just because I fell down doesn’t mean I gave up or I quit.
Q. If you could change one thing about the sport what would it be?
PA. Definitely to make the lower weight divisions the higher paid divisions (laughs). If they can get more exposure and the recognition I’d be extremely content. However a lot of the lower weight class fighters are from overseas so that kind of hurts our chances. I mean it’s gradually improving, but there’s a long way to go to catch up with the purses of the higher weight classes. You don’t see many fights of the year at heavyweight, most of em’ happen at the smaller weights, and that tells you something about the entertainment value.
Q. You obviously follow the sport closely, and I’ve heard you are interested in becoming a commentator when you hang up the gloves, is there any truth in that?
PA. Yeah I’d like to do that. There have been a few local shows here that I’ve commentated on and they’ve come out pretty good so hopefully I’ll get the opportunity to do something like that. It would give me a chance to enjoy the sport that I love.
Q. Who do you consider to be the best P4P boxer at present?
PA. It would probably have to be Roy right now, even with him moving up, moving down, I don’t see anybody beating him so with that being the case he has to be considered the best.
Q. How do you see the upcoming Marco Antonio Barrera – Manny Pacquaio fight going?
I definitely think Barrera is gonna win it. Pacquaio’s been stopped twice before and he’s been dropped recently. Even considering the fights that have been televised in America, those guys never began to get offensive on him or push him back, which I know Barrera will and that’s where Pacquaio is gonna be tested. He’s got a punch and everything but he can’t hit any harder than Morales does.
Q. Scott Harrison fights Manuel Medina in November also for the WBO version of the featherweight title, how do you see that going?
If Scott can avoid the punches that Medina throws then he has got a great chance of revenge, but Medina has been around a long time and he’s very experienced so it’s a pretty tough one to call. I didn’t see the first fight but from what I’ve heard Medina pretty much won hands down, so I think I’d have to give the nod to Medina in the second fight. Medina’s just so busy, and unless you stop him like Juan Manuel Marquez did your in for a tough nights work.
Q. Who was your boxing idol when growing up?
PA. Even from here in my hometown, we had Donald Curry, Steve Cruz, who was a much better fighter than his career suggests, and I followed both those guys closely. Those guys I have been watching ever since I was growing up, and I used to like other fighters like Sugar Ray, Hagler, Duran and all them guys. I got to see a little bit of Salvador (Sanchez) too, and all those fighters were pretty exciting for me to watch.
Q. After the Mosley – De La Hoya controversy, Bob Arum stated this year would be his last in the sport. What do you make of that?
PA. No man, it ain’t gonna be his last year. He regretted what he said and apologised for it, and he just said it out of anger and was pretty irate about the decision that De La Hoya received. People do that all the time, they say things out of the heat of the moment that they don’t mean. There’s too many good young fighters that Top Rank has, and I just don’t think Bob would just finish the things that he has planned for the future off the back of one bad decision.
Q. Do you have a good relationship with Arum?
PA. Yes I do. He’s a very smart businessman. And I’m very grateful for my relationship with him and I’m grateful for being able to be involved with Top Rank.
Q. Thanks for your time Paulie, and good luck on November 14.
PA. Thank you, I appreciate it.
Elliot Worsell would like to thank Paulie Ayala and wife Leti for their time, and wish them good luck on Friday night, and in future fights.