It’s Me, Ernie
Ghostrider, it’s a little scary that you use some of my terminology. You don’t have a shrine dedicated to me at your abode do you?
I was there when Frazier watched the Lyle-Foreman fight… Frazier thought Foreman was a disgrace.
Frazier told a reporter afterwards, “I saw all I needed to see.. George can’t box.. I fought a stupid fight against him.. I know I can box rings around him if I fight him again.”
I thought, “Frazier has to be the dumbest man on the planet.”Posted June 28, 2013 12:08 pm
Negative.Posted June 28, 2013 11:21 am
What is really amazing is that Joe fought Foreman a second time. Only last three rounds longer.Posted June 28, 2013 10:33 am
“Frazier certainly looked it.” Frazier tried to look and fight strong but he was afraid of George Foreman. Of course after George lifted him three inches off the floor with a vicious uppercut, Joe had every reason to be afraid. Still, I think the most fear I ever saw in a boxer’s face was that in Michael Spinks’ just before the bell rang for the start of his fight with Mike Tyson. A neon light flashing “FEAR” could not have better told what was on Mike’s mind. He went out quick too. Because he was so petrified.Posted June 28, 2013 10:25 am
LION KING ?Posted June 28, 2013 4:11 am
I promise you I’m not Ernie.
But who can I be?Posted June 28, 2013 12:05 am
FO Ernie the creep..Posted June 27, 2013 9:57 pm
Junio… You know nothing about fear—or its tell-tale signs.
Do you think an expert mountaineer is afraid??? Somebody who lacks many years of experience negotiating steep inclines many thousands of feet up is going to be afraid.. The master climber is going to study the terrain with a practiced eye and conquer the mountain without fear.
It’s what people know about themselves … that makes them afraid.
If you’re not a master boxer or defender—and Joe Frazier wasn’t—and you’re facing the biggest, strongest puncher you ever faced in your lifetime—George Foreman—you’re going to feel terrified. Frazier certainly looked it.
Michael Spinks knew he was a great boxer and puncher. He knew he could defend. He knew his offense and defense was primo. He knew he worked like crazy to build his weight up to 212 and had beaten Holmes and Cooney. But Spinks also knew he was facing a killing machine who was 3 X stronger and faster. He knew Iron Mike would smash into him with primordial force and wipe the ring with his skinny behind. He wasn’t a natural heavyweight. He wasn’t big or strong enough to deal with Tyson. He felt and looked like a 98 pound weakling in there—and it showed on his face and the way he fought.
Ditto Floyd Patterson when he faced Sonny Liston.. He looked like a man being forced to walk the plank at sword point. I can see Foreman trying to build up Frazier as a formidable opponent—even though he knew he would crush Frazier with amazing ease. I thought the 1st fight was a 1-round job when it was signed … another Liston-Patterson.
So were George Foreman… Sonny Liston… or Mike Tyson afraid in those particular fights??? … NOT in those particular fights.
If you’ve skied down the most dangerous mountains ever skied—are you afraid of swishing down a small hill???Posted June 27, 2013 6:02 pm
“Correctamundo – So when you gamble 2.5 food stamps for a FMJ win, you can get 1 free stamp back and really lash out on some Pea and Ham soup. You are truly the greatest.” – LOL. The truth about WrongaMundo emerges.Posted June 27, 2013 5:42 pm
and he does explain part of the fear factor inside the ring which leans to him fighting with fear. I just say it was more so at a certain point than later on as he gained experienced. It was still there, always, but he became more confident and relaxed with tie. Something lost when he lost those skills.Posted June 27, 2013 1:56 pm
Tyson had “smoother” muscles than Wlad as a Pro. Tyson was a bit more ripped as an amateur when he was making sure he stayed in the HW division.
After prison it was a different story.
Wlad also has “Bulked” up over the years. And still adds muscle when he is in camp as opposed to Tyson in the 80’s who could hover 10-15 pounds above fighting weight and then let it gradually come off during training.
Leroy Colbert, bodybuilder from back in the day, met a young Mike Tyson so they probably talked some proper nutrition.
“Leroy Colbert talks about Mike Tyson” (on youtube).
Interesting take on Tyson.Posted June 27, 2013 1:53 pm
Tyson trained with fear but not always did he fight out of fear. As a Pro, he became more and more relaxed and continued to get better mentally as his skills and experience grew. And when he stopped growing, and his skills declined, he was exposed and that’s when the issues returned.
Floyd was groomed since birth to be a boxer. He had lots of amateur experience. Compare that with Tyson. Also, divisions may make a difference. In the HW division, there is no “size” limit. These guys have “MAN” Bodies.
Fear can be a good thing. Wasn’t that in the last Batman movie? Hahaha.
Fear of annihilation motivated many “people” throughout history from losing and defeating greater powers/armies.
All boxers/fighters have some kind of Fear. This is what D’amato’s philosophy about. It’s how you deal and overcome that fear from destroying you that matters.
They all fear being hit unless they are “dummies” as D’Amato put it. A person that doesn’t mind being hit is a dummy. There is a great article from S.I. in the vault with D’Amato discussing a fighter like this…a dummy.
If Floyd and Canelo didn’t fear getting hit, they would have no use for defense.
Also remember, Tyson put himself into more danger than Floyd because Tyson was an aggressor who was willing to risk getting on the inside of much bigger men in order to land that crushing blow.Posted June 27, 2013 1:41 pm
Junio: I don’t want to go too much into bodybuilding, since this is a boxing site, Arthur Saxon and Eugen Sandow are great examples of early bodybuilders, like Steve Reeves that were before the 80ties period, I know they trained in another way, a way that has come back to Gyms lately.
A fast way of training, some call it Pump these days, but thats highly misleading, those people had natural genetics, yes. The heavy bones issue, is correct too. Tyson in his young prime, looked a little like W. Klitscho, musclewise, just more extreme. Testing procedures in boxing then as now were terrible, I think.
Tyson could clearly box, but fought out of fear. People like Mayweather and Canelo don’t have those psychological issues, since they are not afraid of getting hit.
Look at how relieved Tyson was after most of his fights, he was all hugs and kisses, his fear was gone.Posted June 27, 2013 1:11 pm
The point was based on Physical Stature doesn’t win alone. Or make a Pro Boxer/Fighter scared. You still have to add in the level of Skillset.Posted June 27, 2013 1:10 pm
Foreman said he was scared because of what Frazier was doing in the HW division. He whooped Ali. If Frazier can do that to someone as skilled as Ali, what would happen to him, George Foreman, who lacked such skills and savy?
Looking and Being is to different things. Tyson often said he was scared in moments where he was able to cover it up. Many “trained” people do this. Show no fear even when you are in fear. It’s the same when being hurt which boxers talk about covering it up so the opponent doesn’t know.
Put an NFL LB in a boxing ring and how would he do?
That’s where skills come into play.Posted June 27, 2013 1:09 pm
te tumbo :
Nonsense. And myths started by Teddy Atlas and Writers who wanted to believe it. These are PRO BOXERS.
Fighters did fight back. Are you telling me none of them threw a punch, fought back until Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis? Complete bull.
Even “lesser” fighters as from as “elite” goes fought Tyson back. Berbick, scared or not, even came out swinging against Tyson in the first.
Ever see the famous video clip of Tyson bobbing-weaving and making Reggie Gross miss and then counter him and knock him down and later out? Reggie wasn’t scared to punch back. But what did happen to Reggie was that he had trouble landing on Tyson but Tyson didn’t have that much trouble landing on him.
Ruddock is another example of someone not scared. wasn’t before Douglas and would definitely not be after Douglas.
Ribalta wasn’t scared and talked about it in an interview.
Do you think any of these guys would fear that street fighter who got whooped in MMA? Hell no. That’s street-fighting against non-pros.Posted June 27, 2013 12:42 pm
However, what is also possible is that he may have started to use something after a certain point. Or been on them the whole time from his first Pro fight. We don’t know. But what I am saying is that he was already picked purposely because of his genetics. He was big and strong even as a teen which is why they allowed sparring with Grown Pro Adults. And that was him on a diet to keep him at HW instead of SHW.
So again, overall, excluding Tyson, people have and will have “natural” genetics that give you crazy genes. And from there, what you eat and what type of training will “help” determine the physique shape you have. You can get a dense look, you can get a full look…it depends on many factors.Posted June 27, 2013 12:35 pm
“Frazier was small, short, weak, fat, and out-of-shape. ” Tark, you talk like Frazier was a marshmallow. For his fight with Foreman Joe weighed in at 224 lbs, just 8 1/2 pounds more than he ever weighed before. Yeah, he wasn’t tight as a rock for that fight but he wasn’t “fat’ either. As for being “out-of-shape” well, that’s all relevant. After all, look how much bigger Foreman was.Posted June 27, 2013 12:16 pm
a lot of over-analysis of “Iron Mike’s” bully-boy profile left over from his previous thug-life. suffice it to say that v. opponents who weren’t afraid and Hit back, Mike wilted and struggled. not unlike any common bully. Tyson Knew he was in trouble v. the likes of Holyfield and Lewis. talented and confident pros who considered Tyson a vulnerable thug way out of his depth in their arena and Tyson knew it. the results were predictable.Posted June 27, 2013 10:40 am
Junio: Yes the aggression supplement you mentioned was the one I meant. We can’t know who used what, unless they were caught,
but seriously, are you saying that the young Tyson, with those huge ripped muscles, had accomplished that with vitamins. Nomatter, they didn’t have the biological passport then, like they use in Pro cycling.
Power equals strenght plus speed thats why weighttraining won’t make you a powerful boxer alone. I agree with all the rest of your comments, which are very factual.
It clearly seems as if people make Canelo out to be the favorite against Mayweather based on weight. Let’s see how big the difference is, when they stand in the ring, right.Posted June 27, 2013 5:58 am
@Junio… You wrote, “Foreman, by his own admission, was scared of Frazier. I don’t think vice-versa.” …
Foreman was a great story teller. Take that statement with a grain of salt.. There was NO reason for Foreman to be afraid of Frazier. George didn’t look the least bit afraid. He looked as cool and calm as a president—except for the contemptuous look on his face when he looked at Frazier.
There was EVERY reason in the world for Frazier to be afraid of Foreman.. Frazier was small, short, weak, fat, and out-of-shape. Every time George knocked Joe into the air—with one of his cyclonic punches—Frazier’s fat shook like a bowl of jelly. At the weigh-in and before the fight Frazier looked terrified—as scared as Michael Spinks before the Tyson fight. Norton also looked scared of Foreman before their fight, terrified in fact.
I was never impressed with Mackie Shillstone. Hopkins dropped him because he felt overly muscular for Calzaghe—and thought his endurance suffered. Hopkins looked looser, faster, better, and more finely conditioned against Pascal and Cloud, where he followed a different regimen.
When you start talking NFL linebackers you lose me. Put a boxer on a football field, or Tiger Woods on a tennis court, and they’re going to fall straight through their tails. Don’t mix apples and oranges.
Liston was not a great boxer. He was a fair boxer, but a great puncher. He was bigger and stronger than any heavyweight from the 1950’s—a decade where NO Heavyweight Champion OR challenger weighed over 200 pounds.Posted June 27, 2013 5:06 am
Gonzo the Dragonborn
Brother Lionking.. I agree with what you said and what you were in agreement with me about what I said too.Posted June 27, 2013 2:40 am
Squared Circle – oh put a sock in it 8ter, stfu and just watch the fight.Posted June 27, 2013 2:07 am
Junio – Tyson had speed, power, elusiveness, boxing skills, hunger and ” Kevin Rooney ” in his corner. I think that was the combination that made him such a monster. He was a student of the game, loved the sport and was passionate about his job. I think once Cus & his manager died and the wolves pounced on him he lost his foundation and was never the same. Kevin Rooney was no longer in his corner and the wheels came off. He never improved after that and was just surrounded by blood suckers, where are they now? I love Iron Mike pity about his career caused by having a wrong team. Floyd has managed to stay on top for this long because of his foundation, it keeps him stable even at the worst of times. As soon as the corner was not consistant so were the results for Mike.Posted June 27, 2013 2:04 am
Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. The Lion King of Beat Street)
Gonzo is on Beat Street.
FMJ holds two major titles at 154lbs and ranked the #1 Jr. MW in the world by Ring.
Honestly, I hate the idea that FMJ can take Canelo’s 154lbs titles if he wins — even though he refused to fight at 154lbs. This stupid catch-weight in this fight doesn’t make any sense to me and seems totally illogical.
But…. Team Canelo knew that FMJ wouild never fight him at the proper weight (without having an edge), so did whatever they had to do in order to give us this fight. THANK YOU, Team Canelo!!!
(But I will go the the grave thinking that this 152lbs catch-weight for the main 154lbs titles is the biggest, stinkiest pile of B.S. in the world.)Posted June 27, 2013 1:45 am
Red on head like deeck on dog. Red gonna KO Lloyd!!Posted June 27, 2013 1:34 am
Gonzo the Dragonborn
Floyd is the light-middleweight champion you turnip. lolPosted June 27, 2013 12:16 am
The difference is Canelo called out Floyd. Floyd didn’t call out Canelo. Floyd has already said he is a welter weight not a jr middle weight. And lets see a whole back after the Cintron fight Canelo said he would meet Floyd at 150. Pac called out higher weight fighters to meet him at a catch weight. That’s the difference. So there is your answerPosted June 27, 2013 12:11 am
Gonzo the Dragonborn
Brother Lionking.. These vile little cretins don’t have an answer to that question. Demanding a catchweight is only bad when other fighters do it, but when Floyd does so it’s a completely different story.Posted June 26, 2013 11:39 pm
Malachi I got ya. You are right. With certain fighters the face offs where tight.Posted June 26, 2013 10:24 pm
Sonny Liston had a big strong naturally 200+ pound physique but he was also a great boxer…all backed up by his mentality of “I’m going to pummel you into the ground.”
Put a NFL LB in there and Spinks and Patterson aren’t going to be scared unless they have the combination of the Mentality of Tyson and Liston along with their boxing skills (with size).Posted June 26, 2013 10:08 pm
Spinks was trained by Mackie Shillstone who is was ahead of his time in training athletes.
Tyson’s physique back then was perfect for him compared to what he was after prison. Before prison, he had smooth/fluid muscles because of his training. Post-prison, he got into to much weight-lifting.
Foreman, by his own admission, was scared of Frazier. I don’t think vice-versa.
Tyson showed up “soft” to Japan according to Douglas’s manager. He continued to diet down to get down to what his fighting weight. I think pure green tea was a big help. That and his one meal a day.
Super-Conditioned is really what you have been doing for the entire year or more.Posted June 26, 2013 10:02 pm
hey, what happened to the forum section with all the girls in bikini’s?Posted June 26, 2013 8:44 pm
considering how unscientific and unofficial the P4P rankings are, why not concede the #1 spot to the fighter who defeats the current #1? that ranking has become more of a marketing and promotional tool anyway. just look at the current P4P ranking and you’ll find plenty of examples of untested and/or unproven and/or virtually unknown fighters on that list, e.g., Chris John(?). he’s 33 years old and his most notable “win” was v. Marquez seven years ago, his last notable performance was v. Rocky Juarez four years ago, and HE’s(?!?) ranked above Mares, Salido, Gonzalez, and Ponce at feather? Pacquiao* is coming off of two losses including a DEVASTATING KO loss to Marquez and he’s ranked above the undefeated Broner, Bradley, and Canelo?!? with such glaring inconsistencies, no serious fight-fan can or should put too much weight to these P4P designations. in which case, why not allow the victor to assume the spot of the fighter he defeats? makes sense to this fight-fan.Posted June 26, 2013 7:56 pm
“Correctamundo – So when you gamble 2.5 food stamps for a FMJ win, you can get 1 free stamp back and really lash out on some Pea and Ham soup. You are truly the greatest.”
LMAO! Best post ever on ESB. Heck that’s almost as funny as giving Broner the win over Malignaggi.Posted June 26, 2013 7:41 pm
Ward hasn’t done a thing lately… Sergio looked terrible in his last fight, most objective viewers thought he lost… Rigondeaux really needs more seasoning in the pros to put him at number one… Mikey Garcia looks tremendous, but how many guys that young, with that many championship fights gets the number one designation??? …
It would depend on how impressive Canelo Alvarez is — because defending your title well… Beating the number one fighter in the world… being undefeated in 44 fights… and being the recognized greatest fighter in the world in your particular weight class??? Those things put together can make Canelo the youngest P4P greatest in fistic histoy.Posted June 26, 2013 7:24 pm
“If Canelo were to beat Floyd, he would certainly move well up on the PfP rankings, but not to the #1 slot. He’d, IMO, have to back it up with a few solid wins/look impressive in a couple subsequent fights.” – Agree with Patrick. You don’t jump to #1 PFP in a single fight. The #2 guy would take the #1 slot by default just as most people had Floyd #1 only when Bhop lost his #1 slot. So depending on whether you’ve got Ward or Martinez at #2, that guy moves up.Posted June 26, 2013 6:37 pm
Wlad HAS chin.Posted June 26, 2013 6:05 pm
@Junio you wrote, “While regular people are amazed by the Physique of the bodybuilder, the Boxer only sees some slow “mark” ready to be blasted.” LMFAO… Yeah… They don’t look fast or fomidable DUH..
Tyson didn’t look ANYTHING like a body builder for Michael Spinks.
“Big muscles” are not what intimidated Michael Spinks. Spinks was an undefeated Heavyweight Champion with 2 victories over ATG Larry Holmes.
Mike looked like a perfectly tuned killing machine with massive strength, speed, and power. He looked like a human tiger, not a physique model. Spinks was scared to death because he was a natural 190-pounder who needed serious strength training regimen to build himself to 212 pounds over 3 years—obviously NOT doing a “body builder” workout where one is looking for size, definition, and symmetry—but a regimen appropriate for an athlete who is looking for greater strength, speed, and power.
Spinks was comparing his relatively anemic heavyweight physique to Tyson’s fearsome, awesome looking physique. Tyson looked like he could smash him like a roach and that scared the crap out of MS—just as Patterson seemed scared to death of Sonny Liston as they eyed each other at the weigh-in. Frazier seemed scared of George Foreman. Usually Frazier smiles at his opponent and doesn’t try to put on a mean face. George knew Joe was intimidated. Unlike the Ali fight, George looked like he had been training non-stop for years. Tyson had the same body for Buster Douglas, but didn’t look intimidating. He looked soft. Douglas even said, “Mike looks soft.”
You can’t fake that super conditioned look. Floyd had it for his last fight. Saul had it for his last fight. Super efforts were made to bring them to peak condition because those victories made this GOAT money fight possible.Posted June 26, 2013 5:56 pm
They should call Mayweather the “Phillipino Flash”, because of the way he has run from Pacquiao for 3 years.Posted June 26, 2013 4:13 pm
Another fight pitting Shoulder Roll vs Saulie……much like the last one, Shoulder Roll vs Paulie. Sept in this one Saulie has more power and accuracy and in this one the Shoulder Roll expert is a little better than the other one. FMJ may squeak by with a SD like AB did. Unless, in this one Saulie is more of an animal and wades in much like Mike Tyson used to. Saulie is going to have to be hungry and aggressive and non stop to beat FMJ. He might, but I see a SD by FMJ.Posted June 26, 2013 3:58 pm
PEDs may be very common. My problem, however, Tyson aside, there are “natural” people born with incredible physics and the ability to grow great physiques and quickly. And we can go back to the early 50’s and before as proof. But fans today would accuse them of using something.
we are not all created equal. And that’s Just the way it is.Posted June 26, 2013 3:52 pm
Nobody knows what or if Tyson used during any part of his careers. Anybody from the mid-late 50’s on can be “suspect.”
We do know he was already able to get to 210 in the amateurs. He was dropped back down because of a not so great performance because of a lack of experience and of course, Tyrell Biggs was already the poster-body for the SHW division.
He also said that he could never have fought as a CW (as a Pro ) because his bones were too heavy. He said that on the Adam Carrolla podcst when asked if he could have fought lighter than HW.
The “aggression” “enhancer” was said to be Cheque Drops.
What Tyson did say recently however is that he would have “used” HGH if he were fighting today. He understood why people would use it. To be the best.
Tyson still had his speed and power just after prison but his boxing skills were subpar and he had a lack of confidence.
Speed and Power can negated against other elites. But SKILLS along with speed and power is much harder.
Tyson had a great Jab in the 80’s. A Jab that could land on 6’5 opponents that even moved around like Biggs and Tucker.
Once Tyson lost his speed and precise punching accuracy, he nolonger had devastating power. PPosted June 26, 2013 3:46 pm
For once, I can agree with Junios / Sredmonds post. Can’t believe it.Posted June 26, 2013 3:44 pm
Correctamundo – So when you gamble 2.5 food stamps for a FMJ win, you can get 1 free stamp back and really lash out on some Pea and Ham soup. You are truly the greatest.Posted June 26, 2013 3:34 pm
Otherwise I agree with your comment, regarding the mental factor, totally.Posted June 26, 2013 3:33 pm
Tyson vs. Spinks:
It’s not so much physicality as it was the entire package of Tyson during the 80’s.
He had Speed, Power, Accuracy, Elusiveness, Boxing Skills…and he had every intention of Killing you. Where others “boxed”…Tyson took it to another level few have like Dempsey did.
Boxers have knocked out “physical” freak looking guys throughout history but its the Skills the entire package that make other Pro Fighters Cautious.
John Scully had a picture of a Bodybuilder and next to it a Turtle/Tortoise. Can’t remember. Anyway, it was pointed out while regular people are amazed by the Physique of the bodybuilder, the Boxer only sees some slow “mark” ready to be blasted.Posted June 26, 2013 3:32 pm
Junio: I respect your point of view, regarding Tyson, whom I loved, in his prime, but let’s not kid around, Tyson after jail regarding power = speed + strenght, was worthless.
Let’s not kid around too much either. Tyson used steroids/Growth hormone and other fine instruments, including a strange steroid (aggression) against Holyfield 2 (The ear insanity) like all the other heavyweights.
Without speed and power, Tyson, after jail, was a shadow of himself. Tyson in his prime, would have eaten Lewis and Holyfield, we all know that.
I like Canelo, but he has no record either, and he is going to beat the best?Posted June 26, 2013 3:31 pm
Tyson’s advantage was not just power. Again, it was the combination of Speed, Accuracy, Timing and Power…as well as Elusiveness or specifically, to make a fighter miss, and then counter. Not once, not twice, but over and over again until the Opponent breaks and gives up since nobody likes to miss and be hit in return.
Once Tyson lost his elusiveness, and he was there to be hit, people became less afraid.
People are more afraid of things they don’t have answers for. Not being able to figure out how to hit someone absolutely makes you afraid. It makes you freeze because you are constantly thinking…WTF? Why can’t I catch this guy.
FMJr does this and he has less power. Those fighters aren’t running out of steam for no reason. It’s because he is taking them apart mentally and physically. Mentally with making them think to much with the “hit and don’t get hit”…and physically, with the body-shots he slips in.
Mental and Physical actually goes together.
Famous Old Saying: “Fatigue makes cowards of us all”Posted June 26, 2013 3:24 pm
Tyson remained powerful for most of his career. Botha said Tyson was a harder puncher than Lennox and Wlad. And that you could hear Tyson’s punches even when he missed.
But what is power?
With Tyson, it was the combination of Raw Power (which Chris Byrd and many others said they saw in Tyson in the amateurs in his youth and one of the reasons why Tyson was taken into the Catskill Team)…and that is “born power”…to the speed, timing, and accuracy that Tyson learned from hours, days, weeks, years of training.
You can have raw speed, but it needs to be trained for peak levels. We see this in every sport.
Cotto almost knocked Canelo out in the first round, ya digPosted June 26, 2013 3:18 pm
Man I’m in Vegas having a BALL. They’ve got Mayweather at -260. $ 2600 dollars gets you $1000. WOW. Easy money!!Posted June 26, 2013 3:08 pm
No TARK: Don’t be such an ignorant fool, you don’t understand training physiology. You can be big as a house, and worthless as a clown, weight is important, only regarding one factor, in boxing. Power. Tyson had power, in his young years, and lost power, and thereby his advantage. Steroids works.
Mayweather is the huge favorite here, he is fighting Chavez Jr, sorry Canelo, who has no defense and are poorly conditioned.
If this turns out to be one of Mayweathers easiest fights, it won’t surprise me. I like Canelo, but see his big weaknesses. He is not close to being ready, for the number one.
Wasn’t it you TARK that said that my argument concerning everybody having a punchers chance against Smw Ward, was wrong.
Clearly a big man like Canelo has a punchers chance, but he will probably be outboxed by a worldclass fighter.Posted June 26, 2013 2:38 pm
peej`this fight sells itself brotha,i’m just saying the face offs are very intriguing and exciting to me and i can’t be the only one thinking this, i just wish showtime could come up with a similar tactic..ya dig!Posted June 26, 2013 2:03 pm
Boxer – Canelo fought an old faded Mosley? What’s your point. They all do it, some just do it more than others, I agree about Hatton and Marquez, but that’s what happens when you’re in Floyd’s position. Canelo fought a welterweight (M. Hatton) to win a 154lb title, he also fought a blown up Jr. Welterweight in Lopez, c’mon bro, they’re all guilty at some point.Posted June 26, 2013 1:48 pm
Fight sold out in a day so I don’t think the face off really makes a difference for this fightPosted June 26, 2013 1:47 pm
Boxer`floyd is a boxer this is what he does i doubt he’s intimidated by canelo but saying that -one thing i’m def going to miss is the H.B.O face offs featuring money may i think those face offs brings a lot of anticipation and viewers out the wood works,showtime needs to think of somthing along those lines or alot more dramatic ..yezzzir!Posted June 26, 2013 1:43 pm
Look, ESB, I copy my comments, so when I get the message that I’m posting too quickly all I have to do is paste my message in the “Say It” box. So, here’s my comment: One other thing: Floyd isn’t going to lose to some kid whose face should grace a box of Wheaties.Posted June 26, 2013 1:29 pm
Q- did you not watch the face off when Floyd and cotto were having a conversation in English !, all I’m saying is that Floyd knows he’s finally fighting someone who is a threat, and not made for him to walk throughPosted June 26, 2013 1:12 pm
Titopa- their is a difference in fighting top fighters in their prime and when their on their way out hatton and the smaller Marquez were the only 2, I remember a statement that Floyd made when he fought cotto and I quote “I wanted to fight the best cotto at a weight where he is comfortable” but you want Canelo to come down, c’mon floydPosted June 26, 2013 1:08 pm
This has the potential to go the same way as Leonard v Duran 1. Mayweather though I think is too experienced to get drawn into a brawl at his age so we’ll probably see Leonard v Duran 2!Posted June 26, 2013 12:30 pm
People are acting like this is some type of superfight. The true superfight between may and pac never materialized. This is just a good fight that’s all.Posted June 26, 2013 12:17 pm
Rapid – You’re forgetting WHY Canelo has looked so good, look at his resume and that should tell you everything…his best win to date was Trout, had he been facing TOP rated fighters he may not have looked so good, I’m not saying he isn’t good, because he is, I just think it’s because of his opposition, on the other hand, Floyd has been fighting top rated fighters over the last decade.Posted June 26, 2013 12:11 pm
alverez/ Mayweather fans can go back and forth all day on this. Obviously Canello hasn’t faced anyone as good as Floyd, and Floyd hasn’t faced anyone like Alverez in a long time, if ever. Whens the last time Floyd faced a true boxer/puncher, with good defense, that was bigger and stronger, and most importantly, in his prime??Posted June 26, 2013 11:44 am
I love it when people say that Floyd “Chose” to fight Cotto that way. You really think a guy that had fought what 42 other guys at the time pretty much the same way, then all of the sudden, decides to change his style for one guy?? Man, Floyd fans will believe anything. The way Cotto fought in that fight dictated how Floyd fought. Cottos jab, and ability to cut the ring off on Floyd was why he stayed in the pocket.Posted June 26, 2013 11:34 am
Do your own bets and tell me about them.. I do mine.. I don’t see this as a betting fight unless or until the odds get more extreme — because of public sentiment on either side.Posted June 26, 2013 10:31 am
Not gd performance vs Mosley, and yes it was a gd straight right Mosley landed on Floyd. After that ? Lesson. Alvarez lookt terrible against Mosley and Trout.. He will have 2 b a fair bit better than that…which I can’t c happening in the last 3 months. Show me the money?Posted June 26, 2013 9:55 am
Where’s the money Tark?Posted June 26, 2013 9:51 am
Floyd fought punchers???
Well.. Let’s see about that… Mosley can hit.. He sure nailed Floyd.. Judah can ht.. He floored Floyd.. Cotto has one of the best jabs in the business.. He bloodied Floyd’s snoot to the extent they had to shove those oversized Q-Tips up Floyd’s nose holes.
Hmmm.. how about Canelo??? … Mosley never nailed Canelo … Trout is a slick southpaw like Judah, but never hit Canelo with an impressive or damaging punch … The best jabbers Canelo ever fought never had his snoot shooting blood.Posted June 26, 2013 9:38 am
Ha ha ha. I hope all the guys who’s posts I’m reasons r still this cheeky after Mayweather wins. Oh wait, Alvarez wasn’t ready etc etc. Yeah he can hit. Has Alvarez been in with a guy of Mayweathers skill set? Answer, no. Has Mayweather been in with a guy that can hit? Answer, plenty.Posted June 26, 2013 9:10 am
someone’s 0 is gonna go yyeehaaaPosted June 26, 2013 8:50 am
And Floyd hasn’t been mouthy yet, he usually quiet with opponents he respects, and vice versa.Posted June 26, 2013 8:42 am
The El Paso Fight Prophet
Any one can see whether die hard or casual fan that Canelo is ready. That must put a lump in floyds throat to see the look in the young mans eyes and know that he cant budge him.Posted June 26, 2013 8:38 am
I have said all along, Canelo’s TIMING will be key to him winning, if he cant time Floyd he sure as hell wont outwork him, can Canelo time Floyds super fast shots and come back with crushing counters,that’s the question.Posted June 26, 2013 8:35 am
@MK… Your prejudice is revealed by one word, “overweight.” Canelo is solid as a rock. That’s NOT being overweight. He’s big, powerful, and strong for 154, with rock-like solidarity of frame. Tyson was 5’10 X 218 for Michael Spinks but NOT overweight.. Joe Frazier was WAY overweight when he was only 214 for his 1st Foreman fight. He looked fat. Frazier was always pudgy even at 203.. Mike had tons of smashing strength and power at 218.. Joe was a wimp at 214. Michael Spinks was solid, but he didn’t look like a true Heavyweight standing next to Tyson at 212.. Spinks looked wimpy—just like 171-pound Trout looked wimpy when Canelo tagged him with that sizzling right lead. He did the dipsy-doodle on noodle legs before he crashed to the canvas.
Canelo’s team tried to push Cotto on him—but Saul insisted on fighting Trout. Saul wanted to fight the most prestigious fighter and NOT the loser. It shows he has more smarts and confidence than his team. They didn’t want Saul to take any chances—but what managers who DON’T box DON’T understand is: anytime you fight at this level you’re already taking a chance. It is better to take that chance against the most appropriate opponent, so more boxers have to take control and overrule overly cautious management.Posted June 26, 2013 8:23 am
floyds not going to be intimidated by canelos size a little bit.he’s an inteligent boxer whos been on top for a hot minute who stays complete focused ,hes wrestled with diffrent sizes ,diffrent skills n diffrent strengths canelos not gonna be eazy but he’s not going to be algebra to a 2nd grader either…no sir!Posted June 26, 2013 8:17 am
Alvarez: look into my eyes! And know fear! Mayweather: I think I will wear my sunglasses in here.Posted June 26, 2013 8:15 am
tark` floyd was fighting cotto straight up so yes a few rounds were bound to get take,for some reason i dont think he’s going to gamble with fighting this monster hitting beast the same way my man…jus sayn!!!Posted June 26, 2013 8:10 am
I am not crazy about it, but TARK has a point, with the Spinks/Tyson issue. So why and how can Mayweather, or money, as he is called win:
Remember that there is a difference between strenght, speed and power. Power is what you want, as a boxer. Canelos overweight, can he use it for anything against a lightning fast boxer, with incredible hand speed and movement.
This is a huge step up for Canelo, in class, it is easy to impress against lesser opponents.
Mayweather is mentally strong and not afraid of an overweight boxer.
Mayweather always picks fighters he knows he can beat, to keep that zero.
Mayweather is no KO artist, but he can punch, properly.
Before people make Canelo the favorite, due to his overweight and punching power, against his former opponents, think about why Mayweather is called money.
Mayweather managed to get out of a fight against Pacman, in his magic period, making Pacman look like the baddie:)Posted June 26, 2013 7:47 am
Michael Spinks beat all of them too… Until his last fight.
Floyd and Saul are the same height… Floyd may be 3/8 inch taller, but Canelo is much bigger and stronger… They’ll both weigh-in at 152, but they won’t enter the ring the same weight. Strength is a big component.
Michael Spinks weighed 212 to Mike Tyson’s 218, but in a sense Tyson had 30 pounds on Spinks—their natural weights were 190 to 220.. Spinks built his body up 22 pounds to reach 212—but he looked scared.. Michael Spinks defended the heavyweight title more than Liston, Johansson, Walcott, Baer, Braddock, Tunney, Willard, Schmeling etc—so how could he be scared??? He beat ATG Larry Holmes TWICE… He beat Gerry Cooney quickly—but he clearly was intimidated by Mike Tyson’s physicality. Spinks was an undefeated 2-Division World Champion, but his career had 90 seconds of action left in it.
He was a young man but he never fought again.Posted June 26, 2013 7:21 am
IMOPosted June 26, 2013 7:18 am
Trout, Canelo, Cotto. dose not matter. Floyd still beats all of them.Posted June 26, 2013 7:16 am
Let’s see… Floyd lost 4 rounds to Cotto.. Then there were all those Q-Tips up his nose from all the bleeding from those sharp jabs in the snoot.. Trout lost 2 rounds to Cotto.. Trout lost 7 rounds to Canelo. Let’s see here.
Hmmm… Canelo’s ears are pretty tight to his head. Trout couldn’t draw a bead on them all night long, and got ripped himself a few times with well timed leads and brilliant counters.. Canelo emerged with clean ears and a clean countenance.
This all begs the question… If Floyd is going to box Canelo’s ears off, doesn’t he have to be sharper in this fight than he’s ever been before???Posted June 26, 2013 7:03 am
Floyd will box Canelo’s ears off!Posted June 26, 2013 5:46 am
I can go to 150 to fight Mayweather – Canelo!Posted June 26, 2013 3:47 am
te tumbo – your knowledge and analysis of the game is tight pity you always get drawn into the PR vs Mexi slugfests with PE but I guess you just can’t resist it.Posted June 26, 2013 3:32 am
This fight being a LM makes this a real interesting clash!
Canelo, if he manages to take the few chances awarded to him, could seriously hurt Floyd if he connects flush. The difference in weights after the two fighters rehydrate is what makes me wonder about the result.
Skill wise, Canelo hugely improves after every fight. Against Trout we saw a improved fighter. Hand speed and head movement is what lead to the victory. But in truth calling Trout ‘ok’ and not bringing out the best? I wouldnt believe the hype. This was a very close decision on my cards, and the broadcasters. In my opinon the fight was ruined by terrible scoring as well as the open score card system.
Trout had to change tactics as his only possibilty of winning was to abandon tactics and go for a knock out. Look for Mayweather to win this fight by being the busier and more accurate fighter. Landing pot shots and moving. Canelo really has to increase his punch output.Posted June 26, 2013 3:01 am
BEARS, all glory, history, and legacy aside, i don’t believe this version of Canelo defeats a still-prime Mayweather. only the actual bout can reveal the truth but the Mayweather that handled DLH, punked Ortiz, dominated Shane, and bedeviled Guerrero doesn’t lose to this version of Canelo. even in a losing effort that version of Mayweather surges back to win. that’s what Canelo is vulnerable too and what i believe Mayweather is made of but only the actual bout can reveal the truth. does that version of Mayweather still exist? or will Canelo be the one to trample its memory? a real possibility at 152lbs and that’s the primary intrigue of this bout for me.Posted June 26, 2013 2:43 am
I think Canelo needs to work on his stamina and cutting off the ring. Cutting off the ring will enable him to keep constant pressure on Mayweather. He needs to throw 50-60 punches a round, that’s where the stamina comes into play. If he keeps within punching range of FM and keeps fists flying and hit FM anywhere he can he might be able to wear FM down enough so he slows in the later rounds and possibly take FM out. Of course this is way easier said than done.Posted June 26, 2013 2:04 am
Canelo will come in with that bull rushing tactics like so many other victims, brawling roughing Floyd up wont work you have to out think him, he is a pure boxer you have to out think and outbox him, Problem is no one has the skills he is too accurate with the counters and defense he sets and dictates the pace. Unless Canelo can somehow get him off his rhythm it will be easy work. You need a fighter who adjust when he does a real good jabber and you have to be in excellent shape because you will miss a lot from his shoulder roll, Vernon Forrest when he fought a young Shane Mosley or Oscar in his younger days both had jabs that could throw off rhythm of a speed puncher like MW, because you have to time him instead of a number of punches, Also you have to have a good chin, Canelo doesn’t have the skills. Early rounds will be close but in the end it will be 45-0Posted June 26, 2013 1:45 am
Uhm, you are just trying to turn on qPosted June 26, 2013 12:44 am
Uhm, now your just trying to turn on qPosted June 26, 2013 12:43 am
Lman: slight? that’s like 6+ inches more of everything besides c*ck that you’re seeing.Posted June 26, 2013 12:27 am
Tomato Can: I agree with all you’ve just written, however… he could actually gain fans getting off the canvas to win as a small WW fighting a small Middleweight.Posted June 26, 2013 12:25 am
I can see the slight size advantage Canelo has in this photo, problem is it also shows he is not much taller then Floyd, which equates to getting pot shotted by Floyd coming in all night…Posted June 26, 2013 12:19 am
Mma fighter: Uhm… you’re not looking hard enough. Height wise they are close, but Alvarez is like… the mass of two or three FMJ’s in one body. But then again you’re the guy with the moniker MMA fighter.Posted June 26, 2013 12:19 am
For this being my first media tour, that was a great atmosphere…chants for Mayweather, chants for Canelo, chants for defense…more on that later :-)
The best part for most of the fans was that Ellerbe is from DC (I didn’t know that) and he along with Floyd stayed longer so that Mayweather could sign the fans’ gear…I think that will change once the tour hits TexasPosted June 26, 2013 12:12 am
I like the way folks say Floyd is not much of a puncher but you never see a fighter just try and walk him down. After a couple of rounds getting tagged in the face they decide it is in there best interest to not just walk inPosted June 25, 2013 11:05 pm
Are you kidding? Canleo’s neck circumference must be at least 5-6 inch’s larger.Posted June 25, 2013 10:52 pm
I see Canelo taking more chances and Canelo don’t really need a solid defensebecause he knows Mayweather is not a k.o puncher…Canelo just has to keep up on points.Posted June 25, 2013 10:51 pm
I don’t see much of a size difference at allPosted June 25, 2013 10:46 pm
Canelo’s height and reach won’t be factors. But he’s built like a tank, with pretty good boxing ability. He’ll be hard to hurt, and may have an easy time hurting Mayweather, if given the chance.Posted June 25, 2013 10:35 pm
Canelo will be the bigger fighter by far. But Mayweather will fight a smart fight. Really Mayweather is a small welterweight, so the deck will be stacked against him as far as size, strength, and youth go. Mayweather could end up getting caught with something, and put on the canvas in this one, but if that does happen, and he’s able to weather the storm, he’ll still get up and out think Canelo in there for a SD win. At that point the fans that want Canelo to beat Mayweather, will be here crying foul, as always.Posted June 25, 2013 10:33 pm
It will be huge for either fighter that wins! Canelo will be considered the new P4P and if Mayweather wins he has my vote to be G.O.A.T.Posted June 25, 2013 10:28 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
Mike Tyson Blew his Wad prematurely like a high-school sophomore losing his cherry to the star cheerleader on prom night.
Certainly not normal for boxers at the elite level to peak out at just 22-years-old — especially for HWs. MT is a rare example, but who knows…. Canelo could be prime right now. Only time will tell, but I highly doubt that he’s peaking right now. Seen a lot of improvement in him over the past 2 years.Posted June 25, 2013 10:28 pm
Canelo isn’t tall for his weight… That means nothing… Neither were Tyson… Chavez… Duran… Marciano… Pacquiao… etc.. Alvarez is a better defender than any of those guys… And Duran was often not in shape, mailing in a lot of his fights after he had 10 million in the bank.. You won’t see that from Canelo.. His work ethic is one of the best ever.
Alvarez can win by making taller fighters come to him… Like he did to Trout.. Or he can go the them.. Like he did to Josesito Lopez..
If he destroys Floyd, — and I don’t think he will but I’m not always right — I would love to see him fight Martinez, GGG, and Quillin next..
If he beats Floyd, but not too bad — there will be a rematch.. If Floyd wins a close fight there could be a rematch if it’s not a popular decision.Posted June 25, 2013 10:27 pm
If canelo beats mayweather it will be legendary. Weight class rankings are irrelevant. Who cares if it means little at 154 to some. Some wantedto say mayweather was the bst 154 pound fighter. Sorry te tumbo you can’t have both. You can’t say may’s the best 154 punder and then say its irrelevant if canelo beats him. That’s garbge. Its not irrelevant. Its not noable. Its OUTSTANDING. Its LEGENDARY son. That fight hasa chance to be being watched decades from now. It could be “fight of the decade”. Tumbo talkn down the reevance seems out of touch to mePosted June 25, 2013 10:14 pm
Canelo’s not in his prime now? How does anyone know that? How old was Mike Tyson in his prime, or how about Wilfredo Benitez, or even Juan Diaz for that matter. Fighters who start there professional careers young, tend to peak early. There’s no sense in trying to take steam out of this fight by saying Canelo’s not in his prime. Canelo’s ready.Posted June 25, 2013 10:12 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
hated enemy: I’m glad to heat you appreciate my sense of humor!
Gonzo: Two true statements and totally hilarious… LOL.
Why isn’t FMJ being forced to vacate his paper 154lbs titles if he’s no longer willing to fight at 154lbs? I realize the answer is very complex and technical, but maybe one of our resident “experts” can explain it? Anyone?Posted June 25, 2013 10:04 pm
hPosted June 25, 2013 9:35 pm
Te Tumbo I agree with all your points, except: Beating the man doesn’t instantly make you the man. If Canelo were to beat Floyd, he would certainly move well up on the PfP rankings, but not to the #1 slot. He’d, IMO, have to back it up with a few solid wins/look impressive in a couple subsequent fights.Posted June 25, 2013 9:32 pm
squared circle thats a funny comment, i jusst see mayweather beating canelo by points,,, i think that canelo has the power to hurt and tko mayweather but mayweather is a super talent and i think he will keep his distancePosted June 25, 2013 9:13 pm
After Canelo loses he will still remain a PPV fighter..if he keeps the fight close he will get a rematch in Mayweathers last fight.Posted June 25, 2013 9:12 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
That being said…. I firmly believe that Canelo has NOT yet reached his prime. But I think he needs to try really hard to stay at 154lbs (because of height and reach) and his weight could become a real problem with age.
He’s has the type of body type that tends to get muscle-bound with age — if he’s not careful. I would advise him to stay away from any heavy weight-training and avoid all the delicious Mexican food.Posted June 25, 2013 9:07 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
Canelo would outbox Cotto in every aspect of the science. And he would smash him to pieces and retire him, in front of his family, in brutal fashion. But Cotto is a warrior, so we’ll see if he still has the sack to face top-tier elites after the big show.
Saul wants Cotto regardless of whether or not he upsets FMJ. In fact, Canelo was trying to get Cotto in the ring well before the Trout fights went down. Real talk.Posted June 25, 2013 9:00 pm
Canelo isn’t a past prime Cotto but Canelo is not in his prime yet either! Not my opinion but just a little fact.Posted June 25, 2013 8:52 pm
i won’t change my opinion going into this bout that Floyd is the #1 P4P fighter in the sport. a Mayweather win will only reinforce that profile. a Canelo win will enable him to claim that title but it will almost certainly also reveal that 1) Mayweather is slipping and 2) he should NEVER-Ever-Again stray above welterweight. win or lose, Floyd is no middleweight.Posted June 25, 2013 8:46 pm
Please, post-fight, remember you thought Canelo was a legitimate threat prior to opening bell. Don’t change your opinion to Canelo was too: young, green, over-hyped, inexperienced, undeserving, blah, blah, blah, etc.Posted June 25, 2013 8:31 pm
If Canelo beats Mayweather it will be awesome… Like Frazier beating Ali… A lot of people expected that result.. It was a big deal anyway because the fight was hyped to the stars almost 24/7.
Douglas beating Tyson was a shocking upset — but people weren’t paying attention.. “Tyson got knocked out??? By who? Who? Well.. remember to stop for a gallon of milk on your way home.”Posted June 25, 2013 8:29 pm
The El Paso Fight Prophet
Canelo looks ready Now, Floyd looks shook and you nuthuggers riding his jock are like the pactards, Soon to be hushed.Posted June 25, 2013 7:47 pm
and biggerPosted June 25, 2013 7:12 pm
Cotto is much more crafty than Canelo up close. Canelo is quicker tho.Posted June 25, 2013 7:11 pm
Boxer: Actually, Floyd never goes off on non-English speakers, wtf would be the point? Lol… he should the same “respect” to Cotto who he beat 10-2… and he should the same “respect” to JMM who he beat 12-0. Don’t read to far into it. And no, Canelo isn’t a past prime Cotto, he’s more talented and less crafty. With Floyd fighting a different fight, that can all play a big role, and some of your guys may end up eating crow.Posted June 25, 2013 7:11 pm
Mayweather is showing Canelo the same respect that he showed when he fought cotto, caus Floyd knows when he’s in their with someone who is a potential threat, only difference is that Canelo isn’t an out of prime cotto!Posted June 25, 2013 6:47 pm