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Heavyweight Jab

I Watch that Liston Video.

He would bea Tyson i think…

Posted May 3, 2014 12:14 pm 


About K bros:
Everybody – of 20s , 30s , 40s , 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s Champs or good contenders like Quarry , Shavers or Lyle would Beat Klitschko.

Posted December 15, 2012 8:59 pm 


Nobody said Tyson was the best… He could never have beaten Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis or the K Bros.. This story compares Mike Tyson with Sonny Liston. Tyson was way too fast for Sonny who only beat one Heavyweight Champion, 189 pound Patterson.. Tyson beat many Heavyweight Champions, including Holmes, Spinks, Berbick, Tubbs, Bruno, Seldon, Thomas, and Smith..

Foreman did stop Frazier in 2, but he was a little guy.. Berbick, Seldon, Bruno, Smith, Thomas, and Holmes were Heavyweight Champions who were big guys.

Posted November 27, 2012 8:34 pm 

Jack Dempsey

James ” Quick ” Tillis was the first man to go the distance with Iron Mike Tyson ,,and made Tyson look stupid thru out the fight ..but Tillis was knock out a nummber of fights before the Tyson fight and after the Tyson fight in fact he was stop by Holyfield in 5 rounds .. what does that tell you ,,knocking out every one does not prove you are the best ,,

Posted November 26, 2012 10:43 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Mitch Green went the distance with iron Mike but was stop in his next fight against Bruce Jonhson in 3 rounds ,,does that mean that Jonhson was a better fighter then Tyson ..

Posted November 26, 2012 10:35 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Just because Tyson stop Berbick in 2 rounds and Larry Holmes could not stop Berbick does not mean any thing ,,what did it mean that Foreman stop Frazier in 2 rounds but “Ali” could not stop Frazier ,,it just means that Tyson and Foreman were indeed big punchers but not necessary better boxers then Holmes or “Ali”

Posted November 26, 2012 10:28 pm 


Sal . O…. Watch the video of Tyson-Williams please.. Tyson was winning easily with his speed and power until you SEE his left knee buckle and give out.. Don’t lie.. His knee went and that’s why he lost.. HIs knee was already gone against McBride and he had to quit.

Read my posts below.. I said Ali was washed up for Berbick, but Berbick beat other prime Heavyweight Champions: Tate, Thomas, and Page, who had only one loss between them when they faced Berbick.. Berbick went 15 with Larry Holmes but couldn’t go 2 with Tyson. Don’t misquote me.

Posted November 26, 2012 7:08 pm 

Sal . O

Tark you just don’t give up do you ,,saying Tyson’s knees were bad , but yet Ali at an old age was ok ..Ali had no legs left in the Berbick fight ,,,Tyson did not get beat by McBride and Danny Williams because of his knees ,,he got beat because he had no heart or guts to get up ,,do you think Ali would have took the 10 count like Tyson ..NEVER!!!

Posted November 26, 2012 4:29 pm 

Sal . O

Who besides Tyson did Douglas beat that was well known ,,,Douglas was a quitter in the ring his dad used to train him and left because he felt that Douglas would quit when the going got rough ,,just like he did against Holyfield ,,he could have got up after the knock down ,,but he reuse ..

Posted November 26, 2012 4:24 pm 


Tyson kills McBride when he has 2 sound knees…whatever his age… Ali’s knees were fine when he fought Berbick.. But Berbick didn’t just beat a washed up Ali.. He beat other Heavyweight Champions in their primes, John Tate, Pinklon Thomas, and Greg Page.. They had one (1) defeat among all 3 of them when Berbick beat them. Did Liston ever beat any 6’3″ X 230lb Undefeated Heavyweight Champions??? I didn’t think so

I don’t judge Ali on the Berbick fight he was washed up.. But 2 really little guys beat prime Ali, one being 5’11” X 205 and one being 6′ X 197.. Norton was bigger at 6′ 2″ X 210 and beat Ali more comprehensively when Ali was 31.. The guy who beat a young Tyson was huge, tall, fast, big, strong, skilled, and versatile.. Buster Douglas was 6’4″ X 232, and a very fast, skillful boxer, a good infighter, a good body puncher.. Ali had no body attack.

Posted November 26, 2012 4:09 pm 

El .Viagra

What happen to Tark ,, is he tongue tie ,,well Tark respond to Jack Dempsey ,,your the so call expert ,,,Is McBride a better fighter then Tyson because he beat him excuses about Tyson’s age or anything like that ,,

Posted November 26, 2012 3:36 am 

Jack Dempsey

Tark ,,then it stands right that since Berbick beat “Ali” we should give full credit to McBride and Danny Williams for beating Tyson ,,no excuses now ,,that means that according to you Berbick beat Ali fair and square ,,and fair and square McBride is better then Tyson because he beat him ,,correct Mr. expert …

Posted November 26, 2012 3:05 am 


Tark !! your an expert of what ,,certainly its not boxing !! if you are an expert of boxing ,then we are all in trouble …How can you be an expert when you rate Berbick ahead of Liston ,,you rate Rodrigo Valdez ahead of Marvin Hagler ,,you rate the klitschkos as the best heavy weights ever ,,but yet Wladimir was stopped 3 times ,,and Vitali he quit against Chris Bryd ..and your an expert huh!!!!

Posted November 26, 2012 2:58 am 


Jack…. Liston lost to Martin Marshall and Leotis Martin.. 2 little guys who weighed under 200 pounds… That’s a disgrace… Liston beat a very small heavyweight champion weighing 189 and fought in an era of extremely small heavyweights.

Who are these boxing experts??? Boxing experts have differing opinions. The Liston who lost to Ali loses to the Trevor Berbick who beat Greg Page.. How many boxing experts called the Tyson vs Douglas fight??? Berbick beat 4 Heavyweight Champions averaging bigger in height and weight than Liston.. Tate… Thomas… Page… and Ali… Liston beat a little teeny guy and I saw them fight live.

I’m an expert, and I say a lot of so-called experts are full of crap morning, noon, and night.

Posted November 26, 2012 1:51 am 

Jack Dempsey

Tark !! now i know that you are crazy ,,Putting Berbick ahead of Sonny Liston ,You must be nuts ,,all the boxing experts are laughing at you ,,Did you not follow Liston’s career ,,he should have been the champ several years before he won it ,,he was destroying every thing in his path ..You are nuts “Tark ” how can you give credit to Berbick when he beat” Ali ” come on now Ali was an old man that case we should give McBride full credit by beating Tyson …

Posted November 25, 2012 11:32 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Tarkism ALERT!!! Sports have evolved over the past several years!!!

Posted November 25, 2012 10:53 pm 


Some of the old foggies who rate fighters only rate boxers from their generation.. They don’t give any credit to fighters of another generation, especially today’s generation.. That’s what you call generational bias.. You had fewer heavyweights years ago, in fewer countries, and they weren’t as big, tall, strong, or fast as today’s heavyweights.. Plus you didn’t have the dominant heavyweights from Eastern Europe who just started ramping up their boxing programs in the 1990’s … In addition the science of Boxing and the training science of Boxing keeps getting better with each generation, just as in other sports.. That’s why Olympic and world records in track and field and swimming today are so much better and faster than 20, 30, 40, or 50 years ago and gymnasts, divers, and skaters are doing routines, dives, and jump spins of so much greater difficulty.

Posted November 25, 2012 10:21 pm 


You have to rate Trevor Berbick over Sonny Liston because Berbick beat four (4) Heavyweight Champions: Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, Muhammad Ali, and John Tate.. They were all much bigger and stronger than China-Chinned Floyd Patterson.

Liston beat only one (1) Heavyweight Champion: Floyd Patterson, who weighed only 189 so Patterson wasn’t even a real heavyweight.

Posted November 25, 2012 10:00 pm 


Ali was a great fighter but he didn’t really beat Liston… Liston was even on points in the first fight when he suffered a torn left biceps—and had to quit after 7 rounds.. Sonny ripped his biceps a few rounds earlier so Liston would have been ahead if he hadn’t suffered the injury.. The 2nd Liston fight Ali should have been DQ’d for failing to go to a neutral corner for 12 seconds. Liston got up but never got a count from the referee. The rules state only the referee can count a fighter out. The referee and commissioners didn’t follow the rules. Liston was made the fall guy because he was an ex-con. Ali gets little credit from me for beating Foreman. George was easily out-boxed by feather punching Jimmy Young. Foreman had no defense or head movement. Young peppered Foreman.

Posted November 25, 2012 9:49 pm 


Tim…. I was talking about the 5 heavyweights who beat Tyson the first time they fought him and who he never beat in a rematch… Anybody can beat an opponent they already beat before…that doesn’t prove anything.. Ellis weighed 195 and Norton was a Chinachin, so those KO’s are meaningless.. Tyson did worse the 2nd Ruddock fight and wasn’t able to stop him.. I didn’t leave Ellis and Norton off Shavers’ list.. I said Stander was one of the punchers who knocked Shavers out…along Quarry, and Lyle—I wasn’t talking about guys who fought most of their careers as middleweights, like Ellis — or uncoordinated China-chins like Norton.

Posted November 25, 2012 8:46 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Ali ,,, beat a fear champion in Sonny Liston ,,Liston had just destroy Patterson twice in the first round ,so he was still a very powerful adversary ..” Ali ” beat a undefeated and very much fear champion in George Foreman ,,Foreman was still young and powerful ..Ali beat a very strong Ron Lyle ,,Ali beat a still powerful Joe Frazier ,,these are just to name a few …

Posted November 25, 2012 3:37 am 

Jack Dempsey

You rate fighters not on how many championship belts they win or how many knockouts they have ,,or by an undefeated record ,,you rate them on who they beat and at what stage of the career they were at ..The only great fighter Tyson beat was Michael Spinks and he was a light heavy weight ,,Larry Holmes was washed up by the time Tyson beat him …

Posted November 25, 2012 3:28 am 

Jack Dempsey

Get serious !! Tark ,,Berbick is not a future hall of fame ,,,As far as Tyson being the youngest fighter to win the heavyweight belt ,,yeah a little impressive but not to much ,,The reason ,,its who you beat that really counts ,,” Ali ” beat the the most fear fighter at that time to win the belt at age 22yrs old ,,,Beating Berbick is not that impressive ,,thats why they put Tyson in there with him,,because Tyson’s management knew that Tyson would win ,,,Tyson was the favorite to win the fight ,,While Liston was the favorite to destroy ” Ali”

Posted November 25, 2012 3:19 am 


Tark, you mentioned Ron Stander as one of the best opponents Earnie fought, and left off entierly partial champs Norton and Ellis, both ko’d in the first round by Shavers. Along with not knowing that Mike won a rematch (vs Ruddock) checking out information will go along way towards making you abit more credible.

Posted November 24, 2012 11:17 pm 


Pinklon Thomas was undefeated and 26-0-1 vs Berbick.. So he did have a tie.

Posted November 24, 2012 8:29 pm 


Jack, you’re hard to please. Besides a prime undefeated Michael Spinks and the legendary Larry Holmes, Tyson also KO’d Trevor Berbick..Tervor Berbick conquered four (4) World Heavyweight Champions: John Tate, Greg Page, Muhammad Ali. and Pinklon Thomas. Berbick was the first fighter to last 15 rounds with Larry Holmes after Holmes first 8 title defenses ended in KO’s. Heavyweight Champions Pinklon Thomas and Greg Page were undefeated and untied when Berbick beat them … Mike Tyson became the youngest Heavyweight Champion in history when he stopped Berbick in 2 rounds.

Posted November 24, 2012 8:08 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark ,,name me one fighter that Tyson beat that will go to the hall of fame besides Spinks,,or Larry holmes ,,who we know was wash up in there fight ,,

Posted November 24, 2012 4:41 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Oh yeah, Lennox had a great defense, just ask Rachman and McCall…

Posted November 24, 2012 4:38 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark ,,we know of the Cooper fight ,,Cooper couldn’t land one single punch on” Ali ” Cooper was hitting nothing but air ,,Ali got to comfortable,,and ” Ali” was looking at Liz Taylor ,who was sitting right at ring side ,when Ali was not looking Sir, Cooper landed a vicious left hook …

Posted November 24, 2012 4:38 pm 


Jack says… “did you not see the fight with Cooper. no one could touch Ali” …. Right.. The fight with COOPER where the 185-pound Cooper almost KO’d Ali.. Pretty good “touch”

Go to YouTube and watch that fight.. Cooper decked Ali with a left hook near the end of the 4th round.. The bell rings as Ali struggled to get to his feet.. Ali whole corner rushed in and helps Ali back to the corner.. They start massaging Ali’s head furiously and form a human barrier around Ali that no one can see through.. Dundee admits he tried to extend the minute rest by ripping open stiching on Ali’s glove and demanding a new left boxing glove for Ali.

Wow.. Getting clocked by an 185-pounder with a 49% KO ratio.. Some defense Ali had.

Posted November 24, 2012 4:01 pm 


Mike Tyson’s knees were blown out for Williams and McBride… Ali’s knees were fine…

Yes, Lewis KO’d Tyson. Lewis was a 6’5″ X 250 ATG boxer-puncher with a fabulous jab, great right hand, and solid defense.. Holyfield beat Tyson because he was a rock solid, extremely strong, 218-pound boxer-puncher and the slickest head-butter in the game.. Holyfield had a great body attack, could fight inside, outside, could go upstairs, downstairs, (head and body) and trained like a maniac … Ali had no body attack, lacked punching power, and had a defense full of holes. Cleve Williams was shot up by the police and washed up. Williams didn’t beat any contenders in 2 years before he fought Ali — and never beat another except for stinky Terry Daniels.. Daniels was in the midst of a 6 fight losing streak and lost 13 out of his last 14 fights … Don’t tout these bums.

Posted November 24, 2012 3:44 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark ,,you like to mention fighters flaws when they are past their prime ,,Example Foreman getting bang up by Steward or” Ali ” getting hit to much ,, Now lets mention Tyson pass his prime ,,quitting against McBride ,,quitting against Danny Williams ,,getting bomb out of orbit by Lewis ,, Getting ko by Holyfield and then quitting to Holyfield in the rematch ,,Biting the ear was his way out of the fight ..Do you think that Ali would have quit against these guys ,,HELL NO !!!

Posted November 24, 2012 1:44 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark you are you nuts that ” Ali ” was easy to hit ,did you not see the fight between him an Cleveland Williams or the fight with Liston ,,or the fight with Cooper ,,etc no one could touch him ,,its when he came back from not being able to fight for three years that he show signs of slowing down ,,TARK ,, you obviously have no knowledge of this sport …

Posted November 24, 2012 1:33 pm 


Jimmy Young got blown away by Shavers when he was still a neophyte with 10 fights and Shavers had over 40 fights… When Young gained a little experience he whipped Shavers, according to all newspaper accounts of their rematch which was scored a mind-boggling draw… However, Young learned his craft enough to out-point crude sluggers, Foreman and Lyle.. “Not bad for a soft, weak, feather-fisted puncher.” Young said.

But he did lose as many as 6 in a row because he couldn’t hold anyone off.

Posted November 24, 2012 3:36 am 

Jack Dempsey

Jimmy young got blown out by Ernie Shavers in one round ,,,I wont dare say that Shavers would have beaten Tyson ..No way ,, BUT,, what if shavers would have landed one of his bombs on Tyson chin ,,,We know what would have happen ,,yet Ali could take every ones bombs …

Posted November 24, 2012 2:48 am 

Jack Dempsey

they all were not the hardest punchers ,,its just an example of the hard punchers he face ,,listen guys” Ali ” fought perhaps the hardest punchers in history,, Shavers,, most experts rank him the hardest one punch hitter there ever was ,,,Liston ,,Foreman ,,Williams – the big cat ,,,Tyson did hit hard but not like these guys ,,the thing Tyson had over them was speed ,,If McBride could drop Tyson can you imagine what these guys would have done to him …

Posted November 24, 2012 2:40 am 


Tyson may not have had as hard an upbringing as liston, but i wouldnt call it “easy” either. He grew up in brownsville, brooklyn. James slater do you even know where that is? Get your facts straight

Posted November 24, 2012 2:17 am 


Jack…, You rank LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS Bob Foster and 50 year old Archie Moore as the hardest punching heavyweights ever… You rank Sonny Banks, who weighed 191 for Ali—and died at 24 from a head punch—as a hardest puncher ever… You rank Henry Cooper who weighed 185 and had a KO ratio of 49% as a hardest puncher ever. George Foreman I agree—but he was super slow with no defense.. Foreman hadn’t gone past 2 rounds in 3 years when he faced Ali.. He had ZERO endurance and was super fat when he entered training camp.. Tyson punched harder than ANYONE on your list, and was much faster and more elusive defensively than Foreman–who was a sitting duck for the much smaller, feather punching Jimmy Young. Tyson never lost to anyone as small and light punching as Jimmy Young—and he would have knocked Young out very quickly.

Posted November 24, 2012 12:43 am 

It’s Me, Ernie

Manassa Mauler- Ali did stop Smokin Joe.

Posted November 23, 2012 10:33 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Ali fought the hardest punchers ever more then any other heavy weight in history ,,,Ali fought ,,Foreman ,,Frazier ,, Lyle,,Norton,, Liston ,,Cleveland Williams ,,Bob Foster ,,Shavers ,,Mac Foster ,,Sonny Banks ,,Chuvalo, ,Bonavena,,Henry Cooper ,,Archie Moore,,Jerry Quarry ,,these fighters were all big hitters ,,now tell me what other heavy weight fought so many big punchers …

Posted November 23, 2012 10:22 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Its all a matter of styles ,,Tark,, sure Ali could not stop Fraizer ,but he stop a young powerful Foreman who he himself stop Frazier and Norton ,,Ali was very successful against big punchers ,,Ali was smart he would let them get tire by making them miss when he was young and when he was older he did the rope a dope ,,of course Ali had the chin to withstand the power of all the hardest hitters in boxing history …

Posted November 23, 2012 10:09 pm 


Louis did have great combinations, but obviously not better than Billy Conn, who came into their right weighing 169 and was winning the fight by peppering Louis with combinations through the 12th round.. Conn started trading punches in the 13th trying to stop the much bigger Louis, and got caught with that great right.

Ali had good combinations but not great.. Ali’s lacked the power of Louis’s. Louis put together tremendouls combinations against Carnera and Baer that just destroyed thiem.. Norton was KO’d several times by big hitters—but kicked Ali’s ass in all 3 fights because Ali didn’t have that kind of power.. Ali’s combos didn’t bother a healthy young Frazier but Foreman’s crushing power pretty much finished little Joe.

Posted November 23, 2012 7:11 pm 


Jack Dempsey says, “Tark you are wrong ,,Tyson did not have the best combinations” You have to learn how to read Jack… I said Tyson had the best combination of speed and power.. That is, cataclysmic punching power combined with great speed..

Posted November 23, 2012 7:04 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

And I got to give it to Buster, he said he was going to do the unthinkable against Mike, for his late mother and he did indeed. It was no fluke either, he picked himself up off of the canvas after a devastating shot and ended Mike’s reign of terror. Great fight, what has happened to the sport?

Posted November 23, 2012 5:59 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

The undisputed ATG Ray Robinson would have probably chose Douglas over Tyson for a very simple reason, and the same reason he called it for Hagler over the Hitman. His hair style. When he saw Tommy’s new do, he thought he was living the high life over devoting himself, the same thing Ray did in his career, although I don’t remember who it was against. He said he got “all fancy” and got his ass handed to him by a fighter who was more serious and hungrier at the time…You gotta love Sugar Ray

Posted November 23, 2012 5:54 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark you are wrong ,,Tyson did not have the best combinations in heavy weight history ,,Joe Louis did and then Ali,,, Tyson did throw fast combinations but they were not effective ,,he usually would knock out someone with a one two punch , Louis combinations were more crisp and they would get you in trouble …watch his fights !!!

Posted November 23, 2012 4:31 pm 

Jack Dempsey

In my opinion Lewis lost the second fight against Holyfield ,,, he was ko against McCall and ko by Rahman ,and did not want to give a rematch to Vitali ,,he was great but certainly the the greatest …

Posted November 23, 2012 4:24 pm 


Tarl. Tyson did win a rematch, ud over Razor Ruddock.

Posted November 23, 2012 3:41 pm 


I think its fair to compare Lewis’ two ko defeats to Douglas win over Tyson with the exception that both for Lennox’ were one shot and your out which counts on his all time chin strength. Neither was prepared right for those bouts and while Lewis had his best days ahead still Mike was already on the downside.

Posted November 23, 2012 3:31 pm 


Tark, aside from the big money Tyson refusing a rematch with Lewis isn’t in question, he was totally shot and after timing his jab nicely in the first round was unable to throw a punch, he was shot and it has no bearing on what a prime Mike could have done. In the Douglas bout we all saw he had putty pounds on him from not training right but few of us beside Rooney knew he was already on the slide. Mikes peak was very short and its that Tyson alone I’m referring to against Lewis.

Posted November 23, 2012 3:25 pm 


LL has an official win over every fighter he fought… Tyson never won a rematch and refused a return with Lewis for 25-million… Lewis’s IQ is probably over 140.. Douglas, Tucker, and Bowe??? … You wouldn’t pick them for your college debating team.

Posted November 23, 2012 3:17 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Lewis wasn’t sharp in many of his outings, especially when he was KO’ed by bums.

Posted November 23, 2012 1:46 pm 


Tyson had the best combination of speed and power—maybe in the history of Boxing. That doesn’t make him an automatic winner over a great boxer-puncher who had 6 inches and 30 pounds on him.. The only good jabbers and movers, who had great height, weight, and reach—who Tyson fought in his youth—are Tony Tucker and Buster Douglas.. Neither had the height, size, skill, power, jab, or right hand Lewis owned, and neither made an impact on the history of Boxing absent Douglas’s upset win over Tyson. Nevertheless they gave Tyson rough nights and it’s a matter of styles.. Lewis had a similar style but he was better.. Tyson used his strength and toughness to run over pure boxers who lacked great power. Tyson used speed and skill on big punchers who couldn’t box.. Boxer-punchers were his problem—particularly if they were very big, tall, strong, fast, and smart.. Tucker and Douglas were dim bulbs like Bowe… Lewis is very sharp.

Posted November 23, 2012 1:12 pm 

El .Viagra

I hate it when people like Tark ,,Susie Q ,etc change the talk of an article ,this article is about which fighter was more intimidating ,Liston or Tyson ,,which one use intimidation more to their benefit ,, instead Tark and others have to change it ,,Tark talks about the Klitschkos or Lewis etc ,,what in the heck do they have to do with intimidation ,,,

Posted November 23, 2012 12:59 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Iron Mike had a well timed and powerful jab, one of the best. It was executed perfectly. Boxing novices didn’t realize his superior skills. He had said once that the worst thing you can do is give a poor street kid thirty million bucks. Once his team broke up and he discovered fame, fortune and fine booty, his career in the ring was downhill. At nineteen years old, he fought much older more experienced and much larger opponents, and flattened them. All one of my favorites Lennox Lewis saw in the ring was a shell of the once baddest man on the planet.

Posted November 23, 2012 12:32 pm 


Tark, Roberto wasn’t a normal junior middle in his bout with Hearns, and while he didn’t have the guns at that weight, which Tyson would have had against Lewis, he also gave himself zero chance at survival by standing straight up in front of Thomas assuring a ko. Theres really no more relevance in your comparison then apples and oranges, it doesn’t apply. As Rooney said the Tyson at his championship stage really did have nukes in both hands for that short time and the speed to catch anyone with them, he didn’t stand upright in front of power and moved his head and upper body then as Cuz had taught him behind a well place jab to back up the opponent and block right hands. The Lewis bout with the prime Tyson is a pick em for me with the edge to Mike.

Posted November 23, 2012 6:34 am 


Tyson is very short with a squared up stance… Peek-a-boo hands held high and close… Feet positioned like a typical walk-in hooker… Leads mostly with hooks and infrequently with jabs or rights… Not surprisingly employed unspectacular jab dynamics and got out-jabbed and beaten by all around skilled boxer-punchers such as Douglas, Holyfield and Lewis—all of whom are older than Tyson is.

Lewis, like the Klitschko Brothers is tall… Had a relaxed, balanced, oblique stance… Left hand held low and feet positioned to move quickly in, out, or laterally… Obviously much better jab dynamics and unsurprisingly jabbed one Hell of a lot more, and more effectively than Tyson.

Posted November 23, 2012 1:56 am 

It’s Me, Ernie

Yup. Chode.

Posted November 22, 2012 11:18 pm 


Enema schnozzle says.., “Neither brother has ever faced an opponent with a spectacular jab such as Mike’s” … So Tyson has a more spectacular jab than Lewis, who jabbed the living daylights out of Tyson? A better jab than David Haye who nailed Dereck Chisora with 65% of his slick, fast, hard jabs??? Remember, Sugar Ray Leonard said, “Dereck Chisora has a great jab — hard, fast, straight, and very effective.” But Chisora only caught Haye with about 15% of his jabs.

Posted November 22, 2012 10:55 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Another example of not understanding the dynamics of a jab. Sharp as a ball. Chode.

Posted November 22, 2012 10:45 pm 


You’re a moron Enema schnozzle brown-noser… Vitali was able to outpoint Lewis through 6 rounds on ALL SCORECARDS.. Vitali’s jab was still undeveloped, but good enough to out-box and out-score the more experienced Lewis through 6 rounds.. If Lewis met the masterful peak Vitali who fought Tomasz Adamek, he wouldn’t win a round.

Lewis outjabbed Tyson and Holyfield by miles.. David Haye’s jab is quicker, smoother, harder, and more masterful than either Tyson’s or Holyfield’s.. Haye is more clever and quicker than either with his jab. Tyson was at the bottom of the food chain compared to Lewis, Douglas, and Holyfield as far as jabs are concerned.. Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis all out-jabbed Iron Mike with impunity.. One of the few great champs Tyson could have out-jabbed is the super slow Sonny Liston. Mike was an attacker—NOT a jabber.

Posted November 22, 2012 10:40 pm 


Earnie, LL is an ATG, and Vitali was winning on pts before sustaining the cuts – fair or unfair. I don’t know why (well I do) some fans use that bout to slam VKs career.

Tyson was a helluva fighter but had a very short prime. LL & K bros have had better careers. Wlad is still doing very well at 36 and even Vitlai has done well fighting past 40. At those ages Mike T was well past it.

Posted November 22, 2012 10:27 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Nozzle, your perception is cheap fiction at best. No clue whatsoever on heavyweight skills. If you could remove the Ukraine genitalia long enough from your mouth, you would realize the importance of a jab, and how effective Mike’s was. Neither brother has ever faced an opponent with a spectacular jab such as Mike, Larry or even Evander could throw. We saw what happened though when Vitali ran into a few of Lennox’s, we know you are still balling over that one…

Posted November 22, 2012 9:49 pm 


Lewis is older than Tyson.. He’s not responsible for Tyson’s partying or erratic behavior that interrupted his career. Lennox didn’t have that great Steward inspired jab when he first fought McCall—he was years away from perfecting his jab.. When he fought Rahman he wasn’t time-zone acclimated or well trained. He was inattentive and he was caught napping. But he didn’t need to fight Tyson twice to beat him.. Douglas and Tucker were tall, and had sharp but counterable jabs. A very young Tyson countered them big only once—when he ducked a Douglas jab and floored Buster with a strong countering uppercut. Douglas—who was KO’d 5 times—beat the count and resumed bashing Tyson’s brains in. Lewis is taller, has longer arms, and jabbed harder, faster, smoother, and more masterfully than Douglas ever thought of doing … It was very difficult to time Lewis’s jab once he got his technique perfected. Which is was for the Tyson fight.

Posted November 22, 2012 9:40 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Tyson was a master of timing the jab against taller opponents when in his prime, it set up the big shots. He was already dust, partying to excess and lost focus when he stepped in against Lewis. Rachman and McCall timed Lennox and knock him TFO, but were never the caliber boxer Iron Mike was.

Posted November 22, 2012 7:40 pm 


Anon…, Mike had no way of landing those great nukes on Lewis… Giving up 6″ of height is TONS more difficult than giving up 4″ of height.. Ask Roberto Duran.. Watch the video of Duran’s fight with Tommy Hearns.. Roberto gave up 6″ to Hearns and got murdered, but only gave up 4 or 5 inches to Iran Barkley who he beat … Barkely beat Hearns twice so it’s all about matchups and styles—and I know all about how styles interplay.

The exception to the height rule is when your opponent can’t box or jab well—and you own a very slick, masterful, and deceptive jab.. Eddie chambers gave up over 6″ to Alexander Dimitrenko and beat him with ease — but Chambers didn’t have a chance in Hell vs Wladimir Klitschko, who’s jab is even better than Eddie’s.

Posted November 22, 2012 5:23 pm 


As often is the case Tark uses a washed up Foreman vs Stewart, a early Liston vs Marshall, and a far gone Tyson vs Lewis as his illustrations of how these three were inferior to others from the bouts results. I’ve given him some space before but it wasn’t really merited. Tyson jabbed at his best very well and straight down the shoulder which would have kept Lewis more on the defense and blocked some of his right hands. Inside at his peak he would have hurt Lewis and had a good chance to close the show with those early nuclear bombs he had.

Posted November 22, 2012 4:55 pm 


El .Viagra….. Tyson was a great fighter — but shortness ISN’T a major asset in Boxing… Lewis is older than Tyson but lasted longer because he could use his size, height, weight, reach and physical strength to keep opponents like Tyson off of him…

It’s easier to blast attacking fighters coming at you — than it is to absorb a rain of incoming fire so you can get close enough to throw.. Tyson was great at it but it’s not easy.. Lewis-Tyson was just the Foreman-Fraizer situation all over again — on a larger scale.

Posted November 22, 2012 4:03 pm 


Ernie…Too bad your bonker isn’t hung like your enema schnozzle brown nose.. Mine is bigger than a major banana .. and just as tasty the girls all tell me.

Posted November 22, 2012 3:49 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Give Tark a break fellas, he is still upset that his Thanksgiving turkey is hung better than he is…

Posted November 22, 2012 3:00 pm 

Joliet Jake

The divisions has weakened drastically since Tyson’s day? So Michael Spinx and Pinklon Thomas would’ve just destroyed guys like David Price and Helenius? Gimme a break! Hahahahaha!

Posted November 22, 2012 2:48 pm 

El .Viagra

Its not the skills you have or the best right hand or best left hook ,,sure they count ,,but to rate a great fighter is how much heart they had ,,and Tyson did not have one …

Posted November 22, 2012 2:29 pm 

El .Viagra

Oh my god !! ,,TARK,, what in the hell are you writing about ,,that Tyson would have been unbeatable if he was tall like the Klitschos ,,thats like saying Ali would have been greater if he had the height of Rock Marciano ..

Posted November 22, 2012 2:26 pm 

Jack Dempsey

If Tyson would have had the height and reach of the klitschkos he would not be Mike Tyson ..come on now that was a dumb theory ,,Tyson would depend on his short height to get inside his opponents and rip away ..his short arms were perfect inside as he would throw them like sledge hammers ..he would be a total complete different fighter if he was tall ,

Posted November 22, 2012 2:22 pm 


Tyson was only 5’11” X 220.. He had the best combination of speed and power of any heavyweight in history—maybe other than David Haye who has better feet and is a lot smarter—but I think Tyson had better raw power.. If Tyson had the height, weight, and reach of the Klitschko Brothers he never would have lost a single fight in his whole career—but God saw fit not to endow any athlete with all the greatest assets … Everyone is disadvantaged in some way or you wouldn’t have a playing field.

Posted November 22, 2012 1:01 pm 


Emmanuel Stewart also trained Evander Holyfield… He instilled that same philosophy of getting better with every single fight. Stewart said, “Most athletes in individual sports work so hard at improving every day. You watch platform divers, springboard divers, gymnasts, and figure skaters work their tails off. They work 8 to 10 hours a day to keep coming up with new skills, routines, and levels of difficulty they could never, ever do before. But 99.9999% of boxers are stagnant. They mostly go to a certain level and stay there. So if you just work harder at improving every single day nobody will even touch you.”

Holyfield said, “If Mike Tyson expects the same Evander Holyfield who he saw in our first fight to show up for our rematch, he’s in trouble—because I’m going to be a much better fighter.” Evander got that philosophy from Emmanuel Steward.

Posted November 22, 2012 12:36 pm 


Tyson was the most intimidating me thinks. He was a scarly looking dude walking upto the ring. Ive never heard of a 6 foot man being called a midget. hahaha. He is small for a heavyweight, but by far not the smallest. Rocky marciano ofcourse was 5ft 10″.

Posted November 22, 2012 12:35 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Happy Thanksgiving Tard.

Posted November 22, 2012 12:33 pm 


Ernie enema schnozzle…, The general consensus is that you’re an enema schnozzle sucker with a brown nose.

Posted November 22, 2012 12:31 pm 


Facts are Facts. Tyson Unified the HW division. Neither one of the klits have. Maybe when vit retires wlad will pick up his WBC belt by fighting some future ATG like Helenius

Posted November 22, 2012 12:26 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Jack Dempsey

“Tark your an idiot “. That seems to be the general consensus in here.

Posted November 22, 2012 12:08 pm 

Tripple Gee

VK has played second fiddle to his little brother his whole career. I wouldnt say hes had a better career than the second biggest icon to ever grace the sport of boxing. Vitali couldnt beat an old fat Lewis. A prime Lewis would have destroyed VK. Infact, if you look at VK at the end of the 6th, he looked like he was about to fall asleep on his face anyway

Posted November 22, 2012 11:55 am 

otmar snitzel

Tark no wlad is the superior athlete more speed and power then tyson wlad would crush the midget like he crushed hes cans Tyson beats only bums wlad has the best combination of speed and power in history not midget tyson Tyson era was two weak he lost to only good boxer he fight and lost to klitschko b’athch dan Williams get a grip

Posted November 22, 2012 11:51 am 

Daly Jr (Juanma, same tranny) likes to touch herself

BS redness. Its all relative you can say all you like that Tyson achieved more simply on the fact that the bros came out of the same gash but VK has Already made more defences. VK already is a longer reigning champ then Tyson ever was. VK already is a 3 time heavyweight champ (Tyson was a two time, in the 80s then again after prison). In fact tyson was only a one time champion if you wanna stick with a 25 year old version. But if you wanna compare the entire career. VK has managed to stay in his feet and doesnt have 6 losses on his ledger does he redness? Nah i would safely say that VK has had the Far better career and achieved more :)

Posted November 22, 2012 11:42 am 


Tyson had the best combination of speed and power in the entire history of the heavyweight division.. He would destroy the smaller Liston in 2 rounds.. At his peak Liston weighed only 210 and Tyson weighed 220.. Lewis went 6’5″ X 250.. Lewis had the fastest, hardest, and most deceptive jab in heavyweight history with the exceptions of Larry Holmes and the Klitschko Brothers.. Tyson was never going to win a round off Lennox in a million years—because of the sheer height, weight, and reach difference.. Lewis was 36 and still improving his jab when he KO’d Tyson.. Lewis didn’t have that jab when he fought McCall—and he didn’t have the same size and strength he brought against Tyson.. Lewis kept getting bigger and stronger with each training camp.. His jab and boxing skills kept getting better.. Emmanuel Stewart used to preach to Lewis, “You have to improve with every single fight.. If you’re not getting better you’re getting worse.”

Posted November 22, 2012 11:40 am 


People love to act like Tyson expired early which is nonsense..Iron Mike accomplished more from a tangible standpoint by the time he was 25 than Vitali Klits has by 41…. Tyson had been Undisputed Champion and Unifed the belts… Buster upset him when he (Mike was pushing 40 fights) he then was something like 45-1 when Holy got him and then Lewis ended what was left a few fights later..Lets not forget we had to give our current HW Champ 48 fights before he became stable which is unusual… Wonder what Wlads record would look like if he had had to fight that version of Holy 2x, and a 35 year old Lewis?? My point is that Mike burned brightly and then he was snuffed in his early 30’s… Only reason he is so badly derided for losing to Douglas who was better than Purrity is that Tyson had already looked unbeatable…

Posted November 22, 2012 10:43 am 


TARK, point taken Foreman v Tyson.
But why did Tyson seem to duck even the older version of George? Probably an absolute peak Tyson beats a less than prime Foreman. But a less than prime Tyson…

Posted November 22, 2012 9:44 am 


I’m always abit suprised Tark that you bring up Sonny’s early showing against Marshall and George’s bout with Stewart as you know boxing in and out as well as anyone. Abit more advanced and unijured Liston was a wholey differrent matter and while George looked to easily stop Alex early, he had nothing left at end of his long career, something that has happened to many greats in their last bouts. You know boxing history so its odd you at times ignore these facts.

Posted November 22, 2012 6:03 am 



Posted November 22, 2012 5:57 am 


Of course Tyson is an ATG Heavyweight Champion… He scored overpowering KO’s over SEVEN (7) Heavyweight Champs: Michael Spinks, Larry Holmes, Trevor Berbick, Pinklon Thomas, Bruce Seldon, Frank Bruno, and Tony Tubbs—plus he beat another Heavyweight Champion: James “Bone Crusher” Smith, on points and smashed out another Heavyweight Champion who was stripped of his title for PED use—Frans Botha. Tyson won 10 Heavyweight Championship fights in a row.. He was certainly an ATG

Liston won only 2 Heavyweight Championship Fights—and he lost 2 Heavyweight Champioship Fights… Two guys who weighed under 200 beat Liston.. Leotis Martin and Martin Marshall, a guy who weighed 180.

Posted November 22, 2012 2:41 am 


Disagree on Foreman…. If feather punching 211 pound Jimmy Young was too fast for Foreman and decked his ass, so was a young MIke Tyson too fast.. Foreman had no head movement and got hit ripped.

Posted November 22, 2012 2:27 am 

Daly jr

Your name sais it all mate!!! You dont follow me around these threads? Yet almost every thread i post on, you try arguing with me? You say i know nothing about the sport that I AM ACTUALY INVOLVED IN, even though half (if not more) the people on this thread and others share my views, and half share your views. What are you talking about ‘my multiple names’???? Have you looked at yours mate? Your name was K2FAN, then you changed it to iLuv, then to some insult to me, and now to your latest one. You acused me of being Goosey and Juanma? lol. 2 guys who have bee on this site for a long time. VK went to the body twice in that first round, not 5 times. your original moniker (K2FAN) shows you are too biast to judge the Kbros properly. Il let you carry on with your sad little existance now mate, you enjoy your little cyber life living in my shadow (afterall you have named yourself after me ;) )im flattered

Posted November 22, 2012 2:23 am 


JD you make some good points that Tyson didn’t have the best mental fortitude, that is he had some quit in him.
However I still think peak Tyson beats Liston, Frazier, Ali.
Most likely would lose to any version of Foreman (if not too old).

Posted November 22, 2012 2:03 am 

Jack Dempsey

I dont get this ,Every one thinks Tyson was the best ,,Far from it !!! Tyson would be great only when he was dominating the fight ,,when the rough got going the tough got going ,,but Tyson was not mentally tough to get going ,,Tyson had quit in him .. He is not one of the all time great heavy weights people ..

Posted November 22, 2012 1:00 am 

Jack Dempsey

Listen every one Douglas was not scare at all of Tyson ,,why he wasn’t we dont know .but Douglas was scare of Holyfield he couldn’t even look at Holyfield during the instructions ..Thats why he threw a wild uppercut and got tag ,,he took the count considering Holyfield was not a big puncher ..

Posted November 22, 2012 12:54 am 

Jack Dempsey

Tark your an idiot ,, bragging about Steward beating the heck out of Foreman ,,Foreman was old by that time ,,,Tell me something ,what did Mike Tyson do at an old age ..Nothing Tyson could not adapt to old age ,,he only knew one way of fighting ,,while Foreman adapted to his slowing reflexes …

Posted November 22, 2012 12:44 am 


Not sure about the asthma… Tyson went 12 rounds with Smith and Tucker, finished strong, threw more punches, and didn’t get tired.. Endurance wasn’t a big factor in Tyson’s losses… Douglas and Lewis beat Tyson from the get go.. Lewis was a great boxer-puncher with speed who was 6’5” X 245.. Douglas was 6’4” X 232.. Tyson was comfortable fighting 6’4” and 6’5” guys if they didn’t have terrific punching power and great skills.. The Holyfield fights were more evenly fought throughout.. Holyfield built his weight up to an iron hard 218 for Tyson.. He knew it was a career fight.. He studied Tyson-Douglas and noticed Douglas had surprising infighting and body punching finesse.. Evander realized the key was to hang even with Tyson on the inside—and outscore Mike whenever the fight moved outside.. Head work was one key.. Not deliberate butting but using his head for leverage so he didn’t get muscled and overpowered inside.

Posted November 22, 2012 12:42 am 


tyson was very explosive moved his head and moved to the inside with the first step faster then any heavyweight I ever saw .Once he got on the inside he was devasting .But I read a interview with him ,in the interview tyson stopped the interview to use a ashma pump . He told the interviewer he always had ashma even when fighting . I used to think it was mental why he slow and some times lost in the tough late rds Douglas, Holyfield . But I now belive it was ashma , that hurt him but what ever the reason mental or physcial when you pitting him in fake fights agains all time greats it has to be considered in the late rds the guy will fade

Posted November 21, 2012 9:26 pm 


LOL Miles,
Liston struggled to decision crafty CW Machen. If Tyson is a “midget” then what is Machen? A dwarf?!
And I’m not a Tyson worshipper.

Posted November 21, 2012 8:52 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

The nineteen year old Catskill Thunder could have possibly beat any heavyweight in history.

Posted November 21, 2012 8:39 pm 


…..”Mentioning Liston in the same breath as Trevor Berbick.” … Watch Trevor Berbick’s fights with Greg Page, Pinklon Thomas, Muhammad Ali, John Tate, and even Larry Holmes—ALL 5 were Heavyweight Champions BTW..

Then watch what Trevor Berbick as he faced faced young MIke Tyson.

BTW… Joe Frazier expressed confidence that his son Marvis, a heavyweight contender who easily beat Big Joe Bugner, could take care of Mike Tyson as well …. 20 seconds into that fight Marvis was KTFO and Joe buried his face in his hands … No skills???

Posted November 21, 2012 7:45 pm 


Oh yes… Skills… Weren’t Jose Torres, Jimmy Jacobs, Ray Leonard, Floyd Patterson, Don King, Bill Cayton, and Cus D’Amato raving about young undefeated Mike Tyson’s SKILLS???

Posted November 21, 2012 7:14 pm 


Anon, Foreman may have beaten Tyson. Liston would NOT have.

Tyson may not have had the tenacity of a Frazier, but in his prime he was much more lethal than Joe F. I loved watching Joe F fight but I think many fans build up Joe for 2 main reasons:
1) just b/c he was a US fighter from a bygone era;
2) to make Ali’s 3 hard fights w/Joe more meaningful.

Joe wouldn’t be a factor in the HW div. recently or currently… and it would be hard for Joe to drop down to CW.

Posted November 21, 2012 7:08 pm 


Right…. That’s whay Alex Stewart beat the living crap out of Foreman and made his head look lik a busted cantaloupe painted with a smiley face.. Stewart had all the speed of a pregnant tortoise and the skill of a rank amateur swinger, but he caught Foreman with a high percentage of his laborous, pregnant tortoise slow swings..

A year earlier Mike Tyson smashed Stewart out in a blaze of youthful speed and power… —Gone in 60 seconds—

I guess that made Foreman think Stewart was as bad as he looked.

Posted November 21, 2012 7:05 pm 


Mike Tyson was made for Sonny Liston and George Foreman.Either would have stopped him. Even if he was a better fighter,he was made for them….God bless….kenny weldon

Posted November 21, 2012 6:29 pm 


Tark…..As always,you will ignore skills and go with the stroner ,more aggressive fighter.Skills must never enter your mind today in a country of face fighters.Too bad….we will keep working at it…..I have great hope for the future of boxing in America….God bless….kenny weldon

Posted November 21, 2012 6:27 pm 


TARD – you’re obviously very invested in this issue and you’ve spouted off a hell of a lot, but you really should have stopped at the bit about Liston being a “small version of Frank Bruno” and then mentioning Liston in the same breath as Trevor Berbick and even Alex Stewart. ;-)

Posted November 21, 2012 5:34 pm 


I go to the men’s room Schnozzle face… Your goal is go to the little boy’s potty.

There are folks who take PED’s — and pervs who ARE peds… You’e the latter.

Posted November 21, 2012 5:22 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Ah good, someday you will be able to go in the big boy potty…here’s hoping

Posted November 21, 2012 4:59 pm 


I’m still setting and achieving goals Enema schnozzle face… Never stopped.

Posted November 21, 2012 4:29 pm 


Tark…I was around in the 70s myself playing some sports and some boxing.And yes pro football had a roid problem no doubt.But again behind the iron curtain where there was no real pros..the olympic guys was their pros and they were treated as pro with all the perks.There was a good book on this written awhile ago cant think of the name just now.The point is roids helps performance overall and those using have a advantage..and alot of that gold back then you can count on was won with using drugs and alot came from behind the curtain.And as a lot of training in some sports evolve and new things come about yes records can be broken.But overall athlets from that time using drugs still had a unfair advantage.

Posted November 21, 2012 3:56 pm 

Red Ryan


Posted November 21, 2012 3:54 pm 

Red Ryan

Agree with e thing you said except i dont count Lewis win over Tyson as meaningful, he was old fat and bald and they fought sixteen years after Tyson won the Heavyweight crown. Not excatly peck or prime Tyson…

Posted November 21, 2012 3:53 pm 


Olympic athletes from the PED era couldn’t match the world records of 2012.

Posted November 21, 2012 3:01 pm 


Tark…The athletes behind the iron curtain competing in the olympics at that time were well known for roids.Look at the east German woman at that time they were getting gold left and right and looked like brick walls.Today the German women not so much.I dont belive that today fighters from those areas are using maybe some ofcourse..but back in the cold war era behind the iron curtain roids was part of the overall training plan.

Posted November 21, 2012 1:50 pm 


Just because a man is 6’8″ X 250 and looks athletic doesn’t mean he’s on PED’s… That is a prejudiced idea.. There are many thousands of men naturally that size or larger.. If you’re in a massive church and look around at 2000 people—half of them males—you might see one or two guys that big–or you might not see any that big.. But there are 7 Billion people in the world and the biggest and strongest are not generally on PED’s.. However they usually try basketball, football, swimming, water polo, volley ball, shot put, discus throw, hammer throw, boxing, or whatever.. If they’re big, they’re going to take advantage of their height, big long arms, huge shoulders, long springy legs, whatever.. There’s 3 X as many humans on the planet as there was in the 1950’s so There’s also many more big people.. And since professional boxing has gained traction in many more countries in the 21st Century, we’re going to see many more big fast heavyweights..

Posted November 21, 2012 1:19 pm 


Paul Allen…Yes guys like Ali..Fraszier..Foreman..Holyfield..Cooper..all fought Russians.They fought them in the olympics ofcourse they were young amatures only kids fighting against full time fighters juiced up and had more expierence then these young Americans.But even still guys like Ali..Foreman..J.F. still came away with gold.

Posted November 21, 2012 12:38 pm 


If you judged Tyson by his 1st round KO’s you would think he’s a monster.. HIs blittzing of Michael Spinks, Carl Williams, Alex Stewart, Marvis Frazier, Bruce Seldon, Henry Tillman etc., he looked blazing fast and cataclysmic … If you judge Sonny Liston by his Patterson fights you get a distorted picture as well. Patterson weighed 189, had a vulnerable chin, and was scared to death of Liston who weighed 214.. Patterson didn’t match up.. Floyd was a better boxer than Liston but it wasn’t a boxing match.. Liston went for the kill from the bell and kept throwing.. Against a bigger, stronger, tougher, skilled heavyweight Liston would have punched himself out.. Liston was as easy to hit as Foreman.

Tyson was too fast and too strong for Liston who was a smaller version of Frank Bruno.. Big, muscular, and slow.. Trevor Berbick and Alex Stewart were bigger than Liston.

Posted November 21, 2012 12:14 pm 

Marcus Halberstram

Actually, at the time they were born, their current countries were under the CCCP – within the Iron Curtain, so the lols are on you, bubby

Posted November 21, 2012 12:01 pm 

Paul Allen

The bottom line is, we were screwed the moment the iron curtain came down. Our boys don’t stand a chance against these juiced up Ruskies. The Klitchkos were selected young and pumped full of HGH and steriods on the olympic program. Bubby, do I need to spell it out for you, these guys are monsters. Ali: never fought a Russian, Frazier: never fought a Rusian, Tyson: never fought a Russian.

Posted November 21, 2012 11:37 am 


Williams didn’t beat the snot out of Tyson.. That’s crap.. Tyson wasn’t really hurt. Mike was winning the fight when his knee visibly gave out. Watch the video. His night was done when his knee collapsed, and at that point and he knew it was over. He was 38… Vitali is still winning at 41 but Ali was done at 36—losing to Leon Stinks who had only 7 fights.. Leon got KO’d by every other heavyweight who was championship caliber.

Fighters hit the exit at different ages: For Hopkins it was 47… For Leonard it was 34… For Hagler it was 32.. For Tyson it was 38.. Holmes fought until he was 53..Tyson’s losses to Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis were real losses.. His knees were gone when he fought Williams and McBride.. Ali’s losses to Frazier and Norton were real losses. Holmes would likely have beaten him at any time. Spinks and Berbick? Probably not.

Posted November 21, 2012 11:30 am 

Elthelred Soothsayer

All – let’s not forget Williams beat the snot out of Tyson and Klitschko nearly killed Williams in there. What more proof do you need that modern is better? Don’t waste your breath on these dark dinosaurs get on YouTube and watch KlitschKO

Posted November 21, 2012 10:51 am 


like Wlad said he beat Tyson already Mormeck was the modern Tyson with modern nutrtion and scienses

Posted November 21, 2012 10:40 am 


why do we need ameribum chump bs we have a classie champion now we dont need trash like Tyson. This version Wlad crushed any midget mike in the 6 – 7 round devistating ko

Posted November 21, 2012 10:38 am 

It’s Me, Ernie

I’ve met Big George on several occasions, I’m 6’3″ and he is taller than me.

Posted November 21, 2012 10:28 am 

Freddy roachclip

Whether you like Iron Mike or not boxing needs another AMERICAN heavyweight like Tyson to bring popularity to the sport and the division.

Posted November 21, 2012 9:58 am 


toenaill biter – you can cry all you like about your ‘beliefs’ or your personal interpretation of what constitutes a heavyweight – fact is there are less boxers registered, accross the board today, than there were previously.

Posted November 21, 2012 9:27 am 


Oh, its Tyson for me ;). Baddest man alive

Posted November 21, 2012 9:14 am 


Chisora looks like a tree stump and he gave Vitali a good fight. And YES vitali was using both hands so dont tell me othawise. Roy jones came up from MW to win a HW world title in this era. John Ruiz is another tree stump looking chap. As is Povetkin. James Toney came up from middleweight too to win honors at HW, and thats the pot bellied brain damaged version of toney. I could go on. But im sure by now you get my point. There are little guys making it in the current landscape of HW boxing, so you cant fault Ali and them for fighting smaller fighters. Also, back in the day those guys were in the same division. Nowadays These guys are coming up a division or 4 to fight big HWs

Posted November 21, 2012 9:06 am 


Wladimir and Vitali huv bin feeding off cruisers too incase u hadnt noticed. Haye and Adamek being 2 of the biggest names on there resumes

Posted November 21, 2012 8:54 am 

toenail biter

Anyone can state or “previously state” what they want. However there are more heavies today than in those earlier eras. Ali fed on what would be cruisers today. It has been argued that he really lost to 180 lb. Doug Jones. A lot the contenders from the sixties and seventies would get lost in the crowd today or be jr.heavies. Who cares about Haye, besides, how many fights did cruiser Leon Spinks have when he fought Ali?

Posted November 21, 2012 8:49 am 


Haye had 28 fights geeeeezer. But i get your drift. Not sure i agree with it though

Posted November 21, 2012 8:42 am 


If Vitali or Wlad fought a prime liston they would have to be really careful…………..careful not to step on him………..very intimidating.

Posted November 21, 2012 8:39 am 


Boxing has got weaker since the 60/70s and 80s/early90s. Saying that todays elites are the right up there with the best of any era maybe even better.

Posted November 21, 2012 8:37 am 


Tyson would smash Liston. Liston would not go past 4 rounds. Overrated

Posted November 21, 2012 8:30 am 


The boxing ‘population’ has shrunk – there are less active heavys today than in Tyson or Listons era. I like this fight and I give Liston a great shout against Mike, don’t judge him on the Clay fights, he was 137 years old by that point ;-). Liston has one of the greatest HW jabs, would be an excellent tool in this match up.

Posted November 21, 2012 8:18 am 

toenail biter

I’d say it gets stronger as it’s population grows. More competition to get to the top.
it’s more difficult to be the king over 1500 heavies than say 500.

Posted November 21, 2012 8:00 am 

Swedish Boxing Fan

I give this one to Sonny Liston based on the fact that if Mike Tyson could not make his opponents fear him inside 4-5 rounds, he would himself start to fell mentally and thats why he could not defeat James Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield (both times) and Lennox Lewis becouse non of them was never in first place afraid of “Iron” Mike Tyson and they all three knocked him out more based on that then punch power and Tyson took lots of good punches from them. George Foreman knew that as well and that is another reason why he wanted to fight Tyson. Thgat doesent take away from Tyson that he was a big sucsess in the ring but it shows that he wasen’t that GREAT as many says. Tyson was great but in my oppinion, Lennox Lewis was the one destined to become the better man from there era followed by Evander Holyfield.

Posted November 21, 2012 7:55 am 


I agree look at his list of wins he was in a very weak era.

Posted November 21, 2012 7:03 am 


Mike Tyson was overrated whom did he beat in there prime?

Posted November 21, 2012 6:56 am 


Holyfield = Steroids – Enough said.

Posted November 21, 2012 4:56 am 


have to go with tyson over liston.

Posted November 21, 2012 4:55 am 


Holyfield was a great fighter… Moorer and Bowe wouldn’t have beaten him if he didn’t have heart problems that flared up in those losses… HIs wins over Moorer and Bowe he felt much better than the losses — and somehow his heart was very good for Tyson.

Posted November 21, 2012 4:41 am 


Tyson didn’t get by on fear… Tucker had no fear of Mike but Tyson whipped him by a wide margin on points.. Tucker knocked out Buster Douglas, but Tyson wasn’t prepared for the Douglas fight.. Douglas was a 42-1 underdog and it was the biggest upset in history…

Given Douglas’s height, weight, and reach advantage.. Given Douglas’s punching power, speed, skill, and over-all game, Tyson should NOT have been that big a favorite and he was extremely unprepared.. Douglas was big, tall, fast, strong, skilled, and motivated.. He promised his mother as she passed away that he would win the Heavyweight Championship for her.. That was her request with her dying breath.

Posted November 21, 2012 4:31 am 


Buster Douglas was 6’4″ X 232… He could box, punch, move extremely well on his feet.. He could fight inside and outside.. He had a good body attack.. He was bigger than Ali or Liston, faster than Liston, and had a better body attack than Ali.. Holyfield was 218 for Tyson, at 6’2″ taller and faster than Liston — stronger, harder punching, a better infighter and body puncher than Ali… Lewis was huge, big, tall, fast, and a great boxer-puncher.

Through the same age, 36, Ali was whipped by Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, and Leon Spinks.. Not exactly the equivilant of Buster Douglas, Evander Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis… Liston was beaten by Marty Marshall—and that’s as far as you have to take it.. Marshall weighed 180.. That’s even worse than Ken Norton getting flattened by Jose Louis Garcia who had only 12 wins and weighed 188 pounds.

Posted November 21, 2012 4:15 am 


I think as mentioned belo, Tyson lost his upper body and head movement durin the douglas fight, and he crumbled

Posted November 21, 2012 3:59 am 


Shavers was more like a fizzed out wet bomb… He couldn’t knock out Bob Stallings who was a 20-25 loser.. Shavers tried hard because he needed to KO Stallings to win.. Ron Lyle was slow and easily out-boxed by Quarry.. Lyle took Shavers best shots and stopped Earnie.. Lyle couldn’t box, but the strategy his trainer devised to beat Ali was to out-box him.. His feeling was, Ali could be easily out-boxed. This Lyle accomplished for 11 rounds by out-scoring Ali.. Then the referee stopped the fight and gave it to Ali when Lyle tried to get Ali to expend some energy.. “I was out-punching Ali all night but he wouldn’t open up.. I was playing possum and get Ali to commit so I could get a harder shot in.. It was a ridiculous stoppage.” …Larry Holmes, “Lyle was ahead. You don’t stop it just because Ali lands a couple decent shots. That’s not a KO. Lyle’s not down and not hurt badly. I would have lost a few if they stopped them like that.”

Posted November 21, 2012 3:56 am 


Tyson was already mentally destroyed when holy got hold of him

Posted November 21, 2012 3:32 am 

Jack Dempsey

The bottom line is that both Tyson and Liston were both bully’s ,,they depended on putting fear in their opponents ,,but when someone was not scare of them ,,both Liston and Tyson would melt ,,in the case of Ali whooping Liston to a pulp ..he was not scare of Liston ,,and Holyfield whooping Tyson behind because he was not scare at all ..

Posted November 21, 2012 3:27 am 

Jack Dempsey

YES!!! Jerry Quarry did stop Ernie Shavers in one round ,,hell of a fight ,,Jerry was not the least scare of Shavers at all and he traded punches with him ,,it was not to smart but it worked out for him ..thats what i mean about the fear factor,, Jerry fought his fight because he was not scare of the atomic bomb Shavers ..

Posted November 21, 2012 3:19 am 

Jack Dempsey

Fighters who put fear in their opponents ,,,,Duran,,,, Sandy Saddler ,,Tommy Hearns,,,Hagler ,,Bob Foster,,Foreman ,, Liston …Tyson,,,Louis ,,,, Dempsey ,,,,Bob Foster was the only fighter that i saw that put a little fear in Ali …

Posted November 21, 2012 3:13 am 


when do you think tyson was in his prime because he was koed at 23 . before 23?

Posted November 21, 2012 3:09 am 


and jerry quarry koed ernie shavers in one rd

Posted November 21, 2012 3:06 am 


these guys today are what is meant by true heavyweights and if the klitchkos dont want to fight inside .they can just ty the guy up. this slows down that short choppy rythyem that both frazier and tyson had as a matter of fact its taught in the gyms thats how a boxer can slow down those short frieght trains guys like tyson or frazier .I know its not exciting but the klitchkos punch from the outside and in wlad case he can just ty up.which he does very effectivly . I have seen this method work better on tyson then frazier .keep grabbing them behind the head in the clinches . and they slow both buster douglas and bone clutcher smith did this to tyson. bone crusher just forget to punch.

Posted November 21, 2012 3:04 am 

Jack Dempsey

JImmy Young was also knock out cold in one round by Ernie Shavers ,,Mr. Tark!!!

Posted November 21, 2012 3:04 am 

Jack Dempsey

This article is about what heavy weight was the most terrifying ,,Spinks lost to Tyson because he was terrify of him not because Tyson was a much greater fighter but because Spinks could not fight his fight because of the fear factor ,,Ken Norton was also terrify of Ernie Shavers and froze up during their fight ,,Joe Louis would make opponents go bathroom in their shorts right before the fight …

Posted November 21, 2012 3:02 am 


Liston and Marciano would have knocked out the prime Tyson

Posted November 21, 2012 2:59 am 


Foreman is not 6’4″ .. He’s 6’3″ same height as Ali, and weighed 217 for Frazier.. The SuperStar competition just tells you that Frazier was the worst athlete there and was whipped by all the other athletes in all the other sports. Frazier stunk out the joint.. Ali had lousy footwork and that’s why Foreman could cut off the ring so easily.. Jimmy Young was a much better boxer, had much better footwork, and never had his back to the ropes all night long against Foreman.. Young wore Foreman down without taking nearly as much punishment as the punchable Ali did.. Young pecked Foreman to death with his feather fisted blows, and floored Foreman in the 12th round with a light right.. Young did a great job for a very small 6’1″ X 211 pound heavyweight … But then again, Foreman was just a terrible boxer who Young could take advantage of all night long.

Posted November 21, 2012 2:14 am 

Daly jr

And before you ask…… Holmes, Louis, Tunney, Johnson, and Tyson. With Ali, Both Klitchskos, Foreman, and either Frazier or the Rugged Jack Dempsey (havnt decided yet). This is my opinion, Just an opinion.

Posted November 21, 2012 2:11 am 


I saw that superstar compitition and Joe Frazier didnt look good he couldnt lift weights but he punched hard and could pressure for 15 hard rds . I hardly think you can judge his ability to fight in a ring because he didnt do well in that compitition. I also remember seeing michael jordan playing baseball not only that he couldnt hit ,when he ran in the outfiield after a baseball he looked uncordinated . does that mean he couldnt play basketball very well?

Posted November 21, 2012 2:01 am 

Daly jr

To the guy who keeps mocking my name…… Do you have nothing better to do? What a sad existance. OK, lets iddress this latest little snipe you had. Now, im an ‘armchair fan’ ?? Hmmmm an arm char fan who flew from the UK to NYC this year to watch Martinez vs Macklin at Madison square, drove from London to Glasgow to watch Burns vs Mitchell, and im a regular at yorkhall and i have an amateur record of 18-3. So no mate, i aint an ‘arm chair fan’. When was the last time you left the couch? I also went to Vegas for Mayweather Hatton. You been to vegas? You been to Madison square? Probably not because you spend most of your time on here trolling! WE disagread on Foreman being a ‘good boxer’ (i said he was, you said he wasnt), soooooo you started mocking my name and following me around threads LOOOOL. you also accused me of saying Ali always went to the body, which i never said, SREDMOND did.. Now again we have a disagreement, so im an armchair fan? A 20 yr old Tyson was an animal in the ring! (AND OUT OF IT). His head movement wasgreat, he realy utilised the peekaboo, and ofcourse that beast power was there just waiting to explode. Now Ali IMO is NOT in the top 5 greatest heavyweights, Tyson is (IN MY OPINION!!!). All i said was IF he wasnt messed up by goings on in his personal life, he COULD have been number 1. I know we dont live on if buts and maybes, but i was just puting a point accross. Just like you and TARK have said that IF Vitalis face wasnt hanging off, he would have beaten Lewis. IF ! Its something we are all alowed to say. This is me explaining ‘Daly jr’ once again, and trying to clear the air.

Posted November 21, 2012 1:59 am 


Tyson was at the end, and 38 years old when he fought Williams and McBride. His left knee gave out. He lost due to injury. HIs legs were shot and he had to quit.. Frazier looked much worse against Jumbo Cummings when he was 37. He had high blood pressure and an enlarged heart so that’s understandable … But Frazier was only 29 when Foreman stomped him like a roach. That’s what a much bigger, stronger puncher did to Frazier.. Foreman at 6’3″ X 217 couldn’t box, but he destroyed Frazier in a slugfest.. Alex Stewart beat the Hell out of Foreman in a slugfest—and Tyson smashed Stewart out in the first round.. Prime Tyson was the same weight as a prime Foreman but much more compact and explosive.. Frazier was a soft 205 when he beat Ali.. Frazier wasn’t solid or strong—and was so weak he couldn’t even press 160 pounds in the SuperStars Contest.. Frazier embarrassed the boxing world by finishing in last place in that competition.

Posted November 21, 2012 1:14 am 


Lousy article. Too simplistic in the opening paragraphs without mentioning the root cause of all the fear about Tyson had a concrete foundation in his hellish power. It wasn’t just fleeting rumour or idle anxiety. Not even technical discussion. BOring article really after promising to deliver something special.

Posted November 21, 2012 1:13 am 

Jack Dempsey

No one is saying Frazier was a greater fighter then Mike Tyson ,,but Frazier had more heart and guts then Tyson ..Frazier would have never quit against Danny Williams or Kevin McBride,,,, people compare Tyson to Frazier ,,they are both different the only resemblance is that they both were short and stocky for their weight division …but then again Tyson had more speed and more punching power ,,But !!no heart …thats why he is not listed in the top 10 heavy weights of all time ..

Posted November 21, 2012 12:46 am 

Jack Dempsey

To Decker are totally wrong that Tyson was a bigger version of Fraizer ,,your estimation is all wrong ..First of all Tyson was not the same after 6 rounds ,he would literally slow down …second ,,Tyson was not as great in the inside fighting,,as Frazier .. Joe Frazier would actually get stronger as the fight wore on ..Frazier was a none stop punching machine …Frazier was a bigger version of Henry Armstrong …

Posted November 21, 2012 12:33 am 


OCTAVIUS, you must be stuck in 1972.
“Vitali on his best day could not beat Sonny Liston. Too robotic.”
LMAO, Vitali would beat the fighter that made Liston look like a clumsy amateur. Vitali would laugh at Liston if he glared at him.

Another fan w/his undies in knots over the current HW reality.

Posted November 20, 2012 10:54 pm 


Vitali on his best day could not beat Sonny Liston. Too robotic. Liston had a hell of a jab and would have eventually worked his way on the inside and hit him with something big like Lennox did and opened his ass up.

Posted November 20, 2012 10:46 pm 


Ali v Tyson? Most likely Tyson.
Why? Ali went through hell 3X vs Joe. MT is a somewhat bigger, faster version of Frazier.

Liston v Tyson? I’d go w/Mike. Absolute peak Liston (befpre Ali bouts) *might* give MT a battle if he could take Tyson into the late rounds… And that’s a big if.

Lastly, no current top HW would fear either HW today. Respect maybe, but not lose based on fear.

Posted November 20, 2012 10:18 pm 


same Vitali who wasn’t impresive against Chris Byrd? Are you idiot?

Posted November 20, 2012 10:06 pm 


Liston in his Prime and Tyson in his prime ..I’ve got to go to the bigger man. Liston.
and I’d say Liston by a KO in the fourth or fifth round. It would be a fight like Ron Lyle and George Foreman fight ..But when the smoke cleare, it would have been Liston standing.. I’d like to offer up a Joe Frazier/ Mike Tyson fight because of the height of both fighters ( approx the same ) that would be a better one to call… I’d call it a draw
Don;t count out Smokin’ Joe, he was an awesome,,brutal fighter in his prime… Again I’m taking about both in their prime ….. Smokin’ Joe might have the edge in that one/ PEACE

Posted November 20, 2012 9:47 pm 


You say…”Tyson was no Frazier” …. You’re right on that score.. Joe Frazier fought little guys who couldn’t punch.. Guys like Terry Daniels and Dave Zygelwisz… George Foreman was the ONLY 6’3″ X 220lb massive puncher Frazier EVER fought.. And you saw what happened to Little Joe in thoise 2 mismatches.. Joe basically got slaughtered.

Now.. Tyson not only beat huge BoneCrusher Smith, who knocked Heavyweight Champions Tim Witherspoon and Mike Weaver out in the 1st round—Mike also beat huge sluggers Frank Bruno and Razor Ruddock.. Guys 6’4″ and 6’5″ X 250…

Posted November 20, 2012 8:56 pm 


Training at the gyms, breaktime, time for a cup of tea, UK fighters, “I will have 2 spoons of sugar thank you”, USA fighters, “I will have 2 spoons of whatever, see how it goes”.

Posted November 20, 2012 8:52 pm 


Shavers also caught guys like Ron Lyle, Jerry Quarry, and Ron Stander with full strength swings with everything he had… He couldn’t KO them… But they ALL KO’d Shavers.

Plus other guys who Shavers hit with all his might, but couldn’t KO, knocked Earnie out.

Posted November 20, 2012 8:32 pm 


Jack Dempsey….. YES.. The Tyson who fought undefeated Michael Spinks punched a LOT harder than Shavers.. Shavers couldn’t KO Bob Stallings, a guy with a very soft chin.. Stallings was knocked out numerous times by very light hitters and had more losses than wins when he fought Shavers.. Shavers was super slow and inept but some believe he beat Ali.. Tyson was 10 X faster than Shavers and won every round against Bonecrusher Smith.. Mike was winning every round easily and didn’t NEED to knock Smith out.. Shavers was losing to Stallings and needed to knock him out—but couldn’t.

Posted November 20, 2012 8:26 pm 

Daly Jr (Juanma, same tranny) likes to touch herself

The thing is that Liston had a jab from hell. Could take down buildings with that jab as the late Bert Sugar would quip. And this jab could have nullified Tysons oncoming rush. I stick by my prediction though. Each with no clue who the other was- I take Tyson in 6. But Tyson goin in there knowin about Listons rep then I think Tyson wouldve been intimidated and taken out late

Posted November 20, 2012 8:03 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark,, dont post anymore rubbish ,,Tyson would have beaten Ali are you nuts!!! first Tyson was not a Joe Fraizer ,,did you not see the fight between Tyson vs Bone crusher Smith ,,Tyson could do nothing in the inside with Smith ..Besides Ali had one of the toughest jaws in heavy weight history and Tyson didn’t you really think Tyson hit harder then Shavers …

Posted November 20, 2012 7:45 pm 

Jack Dempsey

Tark …again you make no sense ,,how in the hell are you going to compare Berbick to Liston ..first Berbick was no were near what you would call a power puncher Tyson had no fear of him ,,and then the stupid remark that Stewart beat the heck out of Foreman ,,Foreman was old by that time knuckle head ,,

Posted November 20, 2012 7:36 pm 


The easiest heavyweight champ for Tyson to beat would be Ali… Ali was close in size to Michael Spinks—who was 6’2″ X 212, very fast, and a great boxer.. Spinks lasted 90 seconds against Tyson for his ONLY defeat..

Frazier beat Ali by staying on him and being too short to tie up easily.. Joe would drive hooks into Ali’s short ribs until he levered room to rip an uppercut, then the hook. But Foreman had his neck pushed down by Ali and had no leverage inside. George was no infighter. Foreman didn’t put a head on you—he preferred to stand off and jab and that KILLED George against Ali and Young.. Tyson drove straight inside and no 210-pounder could ever tie Mike up in a million years.. The young Tyson who fought Michael Spinks would smash Ali right into the canvas because of his inside power and raw speed.

Posted November 20, 2012 7:34 pm 

The One.

sonny liston was overated….he wouldnt stand a chance these days. even his most impressive wins are not that impressive, especially for a heavyweight.

Posted November 20, 2012 7:28 pm 


That’s nonsense Kenny Weldon… Liston was so slow he couldn’t catch Eddie Machen who weighed 194.. That fight went the distance and Liston looked slow.. Liston weighed only 210 in his prime for Machen… Tyson was bigger and stronger at 220..

Patterson only weighed 189 so comparing him with 220 Tyson is ludicrous.. Michael Spinks was much bigger and taller than Patterson—and lasted only 90 seconds against Tyson for his only defeat.. Tyson murdered slow Liston types like Trevor Berbick, Alex Stewart—who beat up Foreman severely—and big slow guys with massive height and strength advantages but who couldn’t move or box—such as Frank Bruno, Razor Ruddock, and Andrew Golota.. No plodding clod-hopper like Liston could beat Iron Mike.

Posted November 20, 2012 7:26 pm 


Three rounds at best. Tyson would be as down and out as Floyd was in their first fight.Liston had a large reach advantage as well as the brutal power under neath to take Mike out quick.Sonny was very hard to hit when fighting under him.Same as George Foreman.I watched them both fight…up close and personal. Short fight….Liston wins…God bless….kenny weldon

Posted November 20, 2012 7:08 pm 

Jack Dempsey

But definitely Liston was one scary guy ,,,Rocky Marciano was even scare to do an interview with him ,,,so Howard Cosell had to do the interveiw …

Posted November 20, 2012 7:02 pm 

Jack Dempsey

I have to rate Foreman as the most fear heavyweight i seen in his first term as champion ,,second would be Joe Louis ..third Mike Tyson …

Posted November 20, 2012 6:58 pm 

Jack Dempsey

I don”t know for sure if Tyson and Liston were in deed the most fear heavyweights …Joe Louis put a lot of fear in his opponents ,,,so did a young Foreman after he destroyed Fraizer and Norton …

Posted November 20, 2012 6:55 pm 

Daly Jr (Juanma, same tranny) likes to touch herself

And when i say “real fans” Ima obviously talkin fans who Know there ins and outs of boxing.

Posted November 20, 2012 6:54 pm 

Daly Jr (Juanma, same tranny) likes to touch herself

Tough one. This article suggests that Tyson would be goin in there full aware of listons reputation and so be intimidated. Very possible since Tyson could be intimidated and so i would also pick Liston over That version of Tyson. But if both fought in their prime unaware of the others rep then I would go for a prime Tyson to overwhelm Liston in 6.

Posted November 20, 2012 6:43 pm 


Nobody’s the greatest. Styles makes fight, you’re gonna lose one day.

Posted November 20, 2012 6:24 pm 


Vitali would have beaten both Liston and Tyson.

Posted November 20, 2012 6:08 pm 


One fighter who showed no fear whatsoever in his 2 fights with Liston was the hard punching Cleveland Williams. (This was not the totally shot Williams who was carrying a .357 mag slug in his gut when he fought Ali) Williams was stopped in both fights, but not before giving Liston all sorts of trouble – landing numerous power shots that had Sonny rattled plenty. liston suffered a brokien nose in one of those bouts, but shook off the effects and went on to get the win by KO.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:53 pm 

Mr Fists

I hear you Scott…But don’t underestimate the FACT the Ali’s greatest intangible was his mind, and Tyson’s biggest weakness was his psyche.

I’m betting Ali has his beat before the opening bell.

Also, Frazier was “fortunate” to have caught Ali after his banishment, (Taking nothing away from Frazier’s own effort) and that fight was still a little closer than a lot of folks wanna believe.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:47 pm 


When Tyson was at his best it didnt matter if you were intimidated or not. He wasnt always feared as a fighter, he became feared when fighters saw how good he was, Easy to slate him for his post prison behaviour but pre prison he was awesome.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:35 pm 

Daly jr

Sorry, i worded that a little wrong. His career was ruined by things outside the ring is probably closer to what i was trying to say

Posted November 20, 2012 5:32 pm 

Daly jr

I think a prime Tyson COULD KO any other fighter in there prime. His legacy was tarnished by things outside the ring, and i beleive had it not been for that, Tyson would be known as the greatest of all time. Hes the reason i got into boxing in the first place (roy jones kept me in it) and im sure alot of other guys will tell you the same. Against Douglas, he (tyson) just stopped moving his damn head!!!

Posted November 20, 2012 5:31 pm 


Agreed Mr Fists! I believe a prime pre-prison Tyson takes out any boxer from any era…he was that good. Where we disagree however is Ali. I think Tyson beats him badly. Frazier and Tyson had the same style and Frazier took it to Ali and even beat him.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:28 pm 


Nice read though Slater, definitely a dream match up this one. I agree, Liston is one of only two heavyweights I would pick to beat a prime Tyson. A good, well schooled boxer with a massive reach, a powerful, sharp jab and a rock solid chin…Sonny had the tools to give Mike a hard night. Liston on points, with both guys taking plenty of punishment.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:25 pm 

Mr Fists

If a prime Tyson is focused, I truly believe he could have beaten any heavyweight in history…With the EXCEPTION of a prime Ali.

(Obviously I’m not factoring in the chance of the one-punch KO…which would give anybody a chance against anybody)

Posted November 20, 2012 5:18 pm 


Many writers/fans fail to give Iron Mike the credit he deserves for the top level defensive skills and ring technique that he posessed in his prime years. Guys like Tucker, Tubbs, Berbick and Williams were good heavyweights and WERE NOT afraid of him, yet Tyson was able to outclass them and/or knock them out in brutal fashion. Making out that brave, talented fighters like this were scared stiff by him is insulting to them too. Sure Spinks froze a bit, and even Smith seemed reluctant to let his hands go, but the majority of men Tyson demolished were beaten by his speed, boxing skills, and sharp, accurate combination power punching.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:18 pm 


Video killed the radio star.

Posted November 20, 2012 5:01 pm 


I agree. It’s not about fear, it’s about styles. Do you have skills and if so, can you use them?

Posted November 20, 2012 4:42 pm 


and last but no least: Yes, apparently it’s not that hard to intimidate Tyson. Liston, Foreman, Lyle, Frazier would do it with easy. Larry Holmes actually did it…. The question is: Can you stand up physically to him? Can you use your skills? I wouldn’t bet against Tyson… I consider him an all-time-great and Tyson at his best gives everyone a tough fight.

Posted November 20, 2012 4:40 pm 


what a bull article. Simply so much crap i don’t even wanna bother stating how much there is wrong. But one thing is without a doubt this: without there imitating skill they would’nt have been so great. Complete rubish to say. They were great because of their boxing skills, and beat their opponents because of their awesome boxing skills (power and speed). Their imitating skill was just a bonus on the side.

Posted November 20, 2012 4:38 pm 


im not convinced at all that these two ring legends ‘relied’ upon fear. look at Razor Ruddock, he wasnt scared and was himself one of the most avoided fighters of the 89-91 era. Tyson took the fight to a man who wasnt scared and it was a great show for all.

Posted November 20, 2012 4:38 pm 


number two: Tyson said himself that he was indimiated / scared when he stepped in the ring. But he knocked them all out. So Liston intimidating him wouldn’t change anything about his performance. Tyson said that you have to turn fear into fire, and that’s exactly what he’d try against Liston.

Posted November 20, 2012 4:36 pm 


I have my own thoughts on this fanstasy fight: First of all: Why does everybody think that Tyson was a mental midget? Inside the squared circle he knew what to do, he was well trained by men who knew boxing and who knew boxers. Becoming world champion at a very young age actually shows that he was mentally tough, but he’s always at the short end when matched up against all-time greats, for whatever reason…….

Posted November 20, 2012 4:36 pm 


So Wlad lost to Brewster then beat his ass in the rematch.
If it wasn’t for Dundee, Ali would’ve been KO’d by Henry Cooper..
So, what’s your point?

Posted November 20, 2012 4:23 pm 

Professor Punch

Brewster was a late 90s never was, by the time Wlad rematched him he was shot. This idea that bigger is better is a complete fallacy propagated by those with an agenda who also conveniently ignore the countless examples of ‘superheavyweights’ coming up ‘short’ (pun intended). The 20s for example was full of tall fighters, even by modern standards. Most of the ‘bigger’ fighters of today are out of shape and under trained lard arses. Liston would be a hell of an opponent for Mike, Liston was just as much of a beast. Tyson would have had a melt down in the pressed no doubt. Is a 50/50 fight for me. Sorry but you don’t win just because you’re more recent. Apparently Delroy Cheesola was the 21st century Joe Frazier – says it all. Liston was plenty ‘modern’ enough to compete with Tyson. I’d say his jab was atleast the equal of Tokyo Douglas for example. This modern thing is overused anyway – look at an old timer like Harry Wills, the guy was from 100 years ago, from a poor background, no access to PEDs, HGH or Steriods but he was 6’3″. Since when is 6’3″ a midget. Jeanette McVey and Langford all hung with him, just as Tyson KTFO bigger men. Just like Brewster. Size isn’t everything kiddies. Never was, never will be.

Posted November 20, 2012 4:14 pm 


Tim Witherspoon made a neophyte out of BoneCrusher Smith int their first fight.. He won every round easily.. But he got bone crushed the rematch.. Yeah—if you’re not focused, well prepared, clean off drugs, and clear headed … really bad things can happen to you.

Posted November 20, 2012 4:04 pm 


Tim Witherspoon was paid around $1 million for the Bruno fight, but ended up with $90,000, had to take Don King to court, probably wasn’t concentrating for the Bonecrusher Smith fight.

Posted November 20, 2012 3:06 pm 


Lamon Brewster was a dynamite puncher who lost his rematch with Wladimir.. If you lose the 2nd fight of a 2-fight series you lost the matchup.. Brewster creamed Golota, Krasniqi, and Nate Jones.. He beat Kali Meehan by SD.. He has a pretty thin resume over all.. Basically on a par with Liston who beat Patterson, Machen, Williams, and Folley.

Posted November 20, 2012 3:06 pm 


And Tim Witherspoon as well… After the Holmes fight he was never as good ever again.. His winnings went straight up his nose.

Posted November 20, 2012 2:46 pm 


Tim Witherspoon was expected to do well in the the heavyweight tournament, he had just beat Bruno, but got knocked out by Bonecrusher Smith, who went on to fight Tyson.

Posted November 20, 2012 2:39 pm 


One of Tyson’s 3 best wins was over then-undefeated Tony Tucker, who had recently won the IBF title by knocking out Buster Douglas. Tucker fought a lot like Muhammad Ali. In fact, when Geroge Foreman became champion again, he was stripped of his belt for refusing to fight (a shot version of) Tony Tucker. It’s a shame that Tucker became a cocaine addict after his decision loss to Tyson and had to temporarily retire from boxing.

Posted November 20, 2012 2:28 pm 


It’s Me Ernie Yeah , especially in the first four rounds , Ha,Ha !

Posted November 20, 2012 2:24 pm 


Alex Stewart is the correct name, not Steward.

Posted November 20, 2012 2:20 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Little 6’2″ Lamon Brewster did some damage IIRC against Wlad the giant, chode.

Posted November 20, 2012 2:07 pm 


Slugger Alex Steward fought a lot like Liston… Steward actually beat the living crap out of the Liston-like George Foreman—but was smashed out in the first round by a blazing fast young Mike Tyson.. Mike was 3 X as fast as Liston ever was, punched harder, and threw blizzard like flurries Liston couldn’t endure escape from… Liston was slow, ponderous, and was easily negotiated by any big strong heavyweight with hand and foot speed.

BTW… Liston-like Trevor Berbick also beat John Tate, a 6’4” X 245lb Heavyweight Champion… You have to remember that Liston’s prime was an era of extremely small heavyweights.. Teeny guys.. The 1950’s didn’t produce even one (1) Heavyweight Champion or title challenger who weighed over 200 pounds … That’s amazing.

Posted November 20, 2012 1:45 pm 


That’s not true…. Liston was 6’1″ X 210 in his prime in the 1950’s

Posted November 20, 2012 1:40 pm 


At 6’2 and about 215, Liston was not that small. In his day, he was considered a big heavyweight. In his prime, before his fights with Ali, he was a decent boxer with a beautiful jab, good defense, and, of course, one punch knockout power. I don’t know for certain if he would beat Tyson, or any of the great champions before or since, but he would hold his own and would have a good chance with any of them.

Posted November 20, 2012 1:36 pm 


Liston ate punches and was a wide open target.. 195-pound LeOtis Martin knocked Liston out..Tyson crushes Liston like he did Trevor Berbick (who fought like Liston), in about two rounds.. Berbick was a bigger, taller man than Liston at 6’2″ X 220… Berbick displayed much better speed and skill than Liston ever did—when Berbick whipped talented big heavyweights Tim Witherspoon and Greg Page. Liston never beat anyone that big, skilled, and fast.

Posted November 20, 2012 1:34 pm 


Slugger Alex Steward fought a lot like Liston… Steward actually beat the living crap out of the Liston-like George Foreman—but was smashed out in the first round by a blazing fast young Mike Tyson, almost before Steward could blink… Mike was 3 X as fast as Liston, punched harder—and threw blizzard like flurries.. Liston was slow, ponderous, and was easily negotiated by any big, strong, skilled heavyweight with hand and foot speed.

Posted November 20, 2012 1:24 pm 


If there is anyone that can put the fear in to an opponent before the fight even begins it would be Vitali Klitschko. His stare has something that ring foes do not like at all.

Posted November 20, 2012 1:10 pm 


I wonder if any of these writers doing “what if” fights will EVER say that a modern day fighter would beat an older fighter?

We still have people honestly thinking a 5’9 190lb Marciano would beat recent champs (Klitschkos, Tyson, Lewis, etc..) Stop it. Be realistic.

Posted November 20, 2012 12:26 pm 


I remember reading a Sports Illustrated article on Michael Spinks and the topic of him fearing Tyson came up. Spinks said something like, ‘the other day my young daughter asked me “Daddy are you scared?…” v

I was probably only ten years old at the time but I clearly remember thinking,’ Why would he even bring this up? He really is afraid and it’s still weeks til the fight.. ‘

Posted November 20, 2012 11:50 am 

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Mike Tyson Vs. Sonny Liston!

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