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Once again Tumbo treats us to his obtuse account of the Pacq v DLH fight and once again labels it fact.He labels most of his quotes are from public record, that’s a goodie concerning the weight and dehydration clauses Pacq was supposed to employed….But Tumbo the fair completely ignores the fact that DLH chose the weight, also our intrepid fact finder states that DLH drained to less weight than Pacq when he weighed more….Keep the facts coming Tumbo…and don’t forget to throw in the odd public record it makes you sound “exotic”…………..

Posted September 25, 2012 1:51 pm 


Ridiculous comment Morales won the first won, Pac the second in 10 rounds then the 3rd was a blowout and over quick…. Marquez is a GREAT fighter and Manny has not been able to get a win without looking bad… On the flipside Marquez has NEVER been able to really overwhelm Pac, those who follow boxing will remember that these guys fought about as evenly as you can for 3 fights…. I believe this 4th one will produce a conclusive ending..

Posted September 25, 2012 8:05 am 


This fight is overplayed I agree with many on that point but the fact remains that this is one of the most closely contested trilogies in boxing history… Marquez and Pacquiao are STILL elite fighters and there is a score to settle…. Many think Marquez won the last bout, some think Manny, I think it could have gone either way depending on how you value activity vs accuracy and clean shots….One of these guys is going to emerge a CLEAR loser and I think that its up to Marquez to show the judges he is not playing it safe and that will change the dynamic of the bout….. He is going to have to open up and put himself in harms way if he wants a chance and putting a stamp on this bout…Manny is pretty much a fast slugger at this point he is not moving with the same crispness nor producing the same volume, Marquez may be able to exploit this while avoiding getting hit with too many clean head shots….Its gonna happen

Posted September 25, 2012 7:57 am 


This fight has barely or no relevance at all…Pacq has beaten Marq three times,why should he take time out to prove what is already proven,this will add nothing to his legacy…If he wins he won’t be applauded for it,it will be sneered at and denigrated by Marq fans who cannot believe they are wrong,if he losses ESB will be awash with the cluckers saying I told you so.Even now so called boxing fans delve into every aspect of Paqs life to find just the smallest piece of information they can enlarge just to make him look small..Tumbo has such a deep jealous hatred for him he his prepared to lie about him just to inflate his own ego..He’s better than you Tumbo,in every aspect…

Posted September 25, 2012 4:46 am 


This fight has barely or no relevance at all…Pacq has beaten Marq three times,why hetime out

Posted September 25, 2012 4:26 am 

what legacy?

Is it really a legacy if all Pac fights are the same guys he’s already beat? Who’s next Morales? It’s like beating up on your little brother over and over. Top Rank only puts Pac in fights he WILL win.

Posted September 24, 2012 8:13 pm 


Does Pacman think that by beating the 40 year old past his prime boxer Marquez this fight will move him back to number 2 pound per pound boxer now that Andre Ward is number 2 Pound per Pound I think not come on Pac dont embaress yourself LOL

Posted September 24, 2012 7:41 pm 

te tumbo

where and when in the history of boxing is a score of 116-112 not a clear if not convincing win? the combination of what Marquez did and what Pacquiao* didn’t resulted in a pretty clear albeit unofficial win for Marquez.

Posted September 24, 2012 6:27 pm 


My bad. I think the same thing you THOUGHT when Pacquiao lost to Bradley who is LESSER than Mayweather.

Posted September 24, 2012 3:42 pm 

te tumbo

the exception that proves the rule.

Posted September 24, 2012 3:11 pm 


I SAID the same thing you SAID when Pacquiao lost to Bradley who is LESSER than Mayweather.

Posted September 24, 2012 3:00 pm 

B Red

Bhop was dominating 39

Posted September 24, 2012 2:58 pm 


And I REMAIN more knowledgeable about WINNING and LOSING in Boxing than anyone else that has ever been born.

Posted September 24, 2012 2:57 pm 


I am the ONE and the ONLY. You’re right. I usually only talk about Boxing HERE. But I ventured off into talking about something else THIS time.

Posted September 24, 2012 2:55 pm 


It’s the MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted September 24, 2012 1:42 pm 


This fight is one of the great trilogies in boxing history, up there with Ali/Frazier, Gatti/Ward and Bowe/Holyfield…. Do I need to see a 4th? Not really but what is unique is that the question of who is TRULY the better fighter has not been answered whereas those 3 trilogies all produced some conclusive results along the way…. Hate it or love it this bout is happening and when two of the best in history face off, I’m watching politics or not….

Posted September 24, 2012 12:36 pm 

Clown face


Posted September 24, 2012 12:16 pm 

te tumbo

BTW, any opponent who thinks that smothering Marquez is the key to beating him will become a battered fool. the presumably indomitable Diaz tried to at a higher weight and experienced the first KO loss of his career in Crunching fashion. i can only hope and pray that Pacquiao* dares march right up to Marquez’s grill and the complete arsenal of punches Marquez typically delivers on the inside. in fact, Pacquiao* knows this, which is why they attempted to outbox(?!?) Marquez in their last fight for the unofficial loss.

Posted September 24, 2012 11:23 am 

te tumbo

NO ATGs of any era or nationality continue to dominate at 39 years of age, e.g., Marvin Hagler, Ray Leonard, Hearns, Jones Jr., James Toney, Evander Holyfield, Pernell Whittaker, Mike Tyson, or Muhammad Ali.

Posted September 24, 2012 11:21 am 

te tumbo

ANONYMOUS, if you’re not rewriting history you are certainly revising it when you conveniently leave out the exotic conditions accompanying many of Pacquiao’s* matchups above 130lbs inCluding his matchup v. David Diaz, i.e., the lesser Diaz. you also don’t mention that the ONLY reason Team Pacquiao* challenged DLH is because Roach was convinced and publicly stated that DLH was “Shot”. something that he apparently noted while working with DLH for his matchup v. Mayweather. there wasn’t even a pretense of DLH not being a ripe cherry prime for picking but just in case, the weight and rehydration clauses would ensure that Pacquiao* would not even be facing the best of what was left in DLH. it’s not “bias” when i remind readers of these facts (among others). it’s a matter of public record. bias is ignoring or burying these facts to enhance Pacquiao’s* artificial greatness. unlike his biased fanboys, i feel no obligaton to do so.

Posted September 24, 2012 11:16 am 




Posted September 24, 2012 11:04 am 



Posted September 24, 2012 11:03 am 




Posted September 24, 2012 11:01 am 


I have the utmost respect for JMM and predicted that he would fight Manny well during their last bout, the fact is that he is going to have to risk getting knocked out in order to beat Manny Pacquiao… Throwing only a few well placed shots per round is very clinical and technically admirable but when your opponent swamps your activity it can be an issue… Marquez is NOT Mayweather who can make opponents miss very widely… If he wants the “W” he is gonna have to lead more and open up, and that is Pacquiaos opportunity during exchanges…

Posted September 24, 2012 10:19 am 


You’re not the original Boxtradamus. You hijacked his nick. The original Boxy talked only about boxing. Too bad you’re not half as knowledgable about the sport as he is.

Posted September 24, 2012 9:54 am 


Changing trainers is often a sign that a fighter is LOSING confidence… Pac Man and Roach have made history together he is NOT going to undergoe some sort of massive change in style not precipitated by the aging process… Tim Bradley offered nothing but a few good exchanges that did not even come close to warranted the exchange of titles… HE (Bradley) was as shocked by the decision as anyone and he has been totally marginalized by the public as a paper champion… I like Bradley and its nice he made a payday but unfortunately he has gotten the least respect for a “win” that I have seen in a LONG time….. As for Pac/Marquez I see this fight having a clear winner one way or the other each guy knows that this is IT and this result will define the history between the two….If Marquez does not realize that only counterpunching and being to economical might not get it done then shame on him, If PacMan does not realize getting outboxed during key rounds and looking off balance is not going to cut it then shame on him….. Either Marquez is gonna make Manny look like a fool, or Manny is finally gonna put JMM away but the odds of a 4th fight that is razor thin does not seem likely to me…..

Posted September 24, 2012 9:53 am 


Well, we certainly know why your call yourself the bible of boxing.

Posted September 24, 2012 9:50 am 


Marquez is always going to be a tough opponent for Paquiao. Watching Pacquiao fight Marquez is like watching some one try to herd cats.

Posted September 24, 2012 7:59 am 

The Bible of Boxing

That “anonymous” post response to te Tumbo was from The Bible of Boxing paraphrasing Stephen Breadman Smith of Boxing Talk. He gives opinions but unbiased unlike most people at these sites. Manny and Floyd are the best of their generation but they never fought? Pathetic! I refuse to blame one guy because they are both at fault and so are their management. That is why I stopped buying their fights after the 1st cancellation in 2010.

Posted September 24, 2012 7:27 am 


Te Tumbo I used the term bigger “fish” because the opportunity came to fight for a title at a heavier weight. I never said he fought the best at that weight. I am not rewriting history like you folks do, I am just recollecting it. Here is a great piece from one of the most knowledgeable boxing people today. This is Stephen “Breadmman” Smith’s (Boxing Talk) exact words…The reason why people revise their assessment of Manny vs Oscar is because of egos. Boxing is a sport of MEN, and most of us don’t like being wrong. So therefore we try to justify our wrongs instead of just saying picked the wrong guy.
I give Manny so much credit because I picked against him three times. When he fought Barerra I thought he would get knocked out. He was moving up in weight and I knew he had been stopped by a body punch many years before. That fight wasn’t even close. I was in shock.
Then in the Oscar fight. I was just dating my wife at the time. Oscar was viewed as a bigger version of Marquez. I never thought Oscar was a big superwelterweight and I didn’t think 147 would be such a big deal for him, especially since he agreed to come down to fight Floyd there. My future wife and I were at the sports bar and I told her Manny was going to get knocked out. I felt like such an ass, Manny put on an historical performance and in my opinion fought one of the 4 or 5 perfect fights I have ever seen. I’m glad she didn’t dump me.
Then in Manny’s last fight I picked Tim Bradley by controversial decision. Technically I was right. And even though I think Manny fought just an ok fight, I had him winning 9 rounds to 3. So….I consider myself to have great boxing eyes and this guy fooled me BIG three times. People who pick against fighters and then get proven wrong should just be humble, reassess why and move on. Instead we are in a sport where if we are wrong we discredit the fighter’s accomplishments. That’s sad. The fighter should gain respect, not disrespect.
Floyd Mayweather Sr. also picked against Manny vs Oscar, Cotto and he worked with him against Hatton. He was wrong BIG three times. Instead of giving Manolo his props we have the landslide negativity we have now surrounding Manny fighting Floyd Jr. Shame, shame, shame…
I am a boxing fan first and a fan of any boxer afterwards. I am a huge fan of Super Roy but I have to tell him he is way past his expiry date. Manny and Floyd are no longer #1 and 2 but remain in the top ten. Of course they are the top draws but this is not about drawing power. Oscar and other stars passed the torch or retired. They need to retire before they become the next Roy Jones and tarnish their legacies.

Posted September 24, 2012 7:23 am 


At the weigh-in DLH was 145…..Pacq was 142..So he could not have weighed less on fight night..No knowledgeable fight fan would believe your statement that Roach saw DLH rehydrate …Same as they don’t believe your statement that you score more for counter punching as it is more “difficult”….You should consult with Supreme Tennis Court..If he will come out of hiding…

Posted September 24, 2012 7:12 am 

trayvon “The Unit” toney

This fight is such a boring prospect. Fact is, no matter how exciting this fight will be, or the fights before it have been, I don’t care to see another Pac vs JMM contest. The only person I am interested in Pac fighting is FMJ and the only person I am interested in seeing FMJ fight is Pac.

If neither of them are up for it then they can both get on their bikes and retire for all I care.

Posted September 24, 2012 5:43 am 


You beat a counterpuncher by applying intense pressure and throwing punches in bunches, like Glen Johnson did to Roy Jones.. Glen is older than Roy BTW.. Marquez doesn’t like to trade or even lead authoritatively.. You need speed, sharpness, pin point accuracy, 5 and 10 punch combinations to beat him. You need to be all the way in, or all the way out.. When you’re in you need to be throwing.. JMM is aging and slowing down, so get on him.. Mexican ATG’s: Sanchez, Chavez, Canto, Zarate, Morales, Barrera, Saldivar, Olivares, and Lopez weren’t beating anyone at 39 years of age.

Posted September 24, 2012 1:52 am 


Manny strength is his accumulation of punches rather that the outright KO.This is the the flaw in his gameplan against Marquez, a brilliant counterpuncher, the more shots you throw at him the more opportunities he gives JMM and therfore the more shots he will take. JMM by decision.

Posted September 24, 2012 1:01 am 


lots of genius people around here! darn typewriter maniacs!

Posted September 24, 2012 12:35 am 

te tumbo

TC, i appreciate you focusing on that element of my posts. you are a particularly sane and sober poster yourself . . . peace.

Posted September 24, 2012 12:31 am 

B Red

Marquez is a greater fighter than Morales or Hatton. I have Juan number 2 and Salvador number 1 as the greatest mexican fighters that i have seen . Jcc is number 3

Posted September 24, 2012 12:18 am 


You pactards sure are something else lol,get off pacs n#tz & stop drooling.Anybody with a brain will tell you the first one pac knocked Marquez down 3x but for the next 38 rounds only one time?coincidence?No,Marquez then skooled pac with a broken nose for the majority of the first fight.The next two bouts he won clearly every time more convincingly get your head right.

Posted September 23, 2012 11:57 pm 


dude you need to get your facts straight before you go runnin your mouth,salvador sanchez,arguably the best mexican fighter ever,was a masterful counterpuncher,& marquez doesnt run around the ring,he’ll sit in the pocket & trade,i.e.marquez vs. diaz,i like both fighters they are both class acts,here’s hoping for another classic from these two warriors

Posted September 23, 2012 11:56 pm 


Marquez will win this time, not only on the public’s eyes but of the judges as well.

Posted September 23, 2012 10:44 pm 


Did you see them speak around a table? Pacquiao is friendly as heck with JMM and everybody around the table. He has not one ounce of animosity against anybody. I think he’s become a savior of the down trodden people.

Posted September 23, 2012 10:25 pm 


Roach was Pac’s trainer for all the Morales fights, so I don’t think he needs that change with only two (2) fights to go in his career… Pacman needs to change his attitude for Pacquiao-Marquez IV.. He needs to be the human tiger he was for the Morales rematch and rubber match, and the Hatton fight.. He needs to recapture that cold blooded savagery … He’s too nice.

Posted September 23, 2012 10:01 pm 


Yeah that’s why he ducked the rematch? You nitwit

Posted September 23, 2012 9:59 pm 

B Red

Pac needs to change trainers… Roach is going to get Pac hurt as he gets older and slower ya dig

Posted September 23, 2012 9:20 pm 

B Red

Manny cant beat Bradley period thats why he ducked the rematch

Posted September 23, 2012 9:09 pm 

B Red

Bradley beat Pac, he has much better defence than Marquez and made Pac look like an amatuer with his ring generalship. It was a smart move to duck Bradley with Marquez who is up there in age and very hittable.

Posted September 23, 2012 9:06 pm 


There was not “clear” winner in any fight.. I had Marquez winning by 1 point in the first 2 fights and by 4 points in the 3rd fight.. But this fight is different.. Pacquiao fought a lousy fight the last time out and will be pissed off as Hell for the 4th fight.. He pretty much knows he lost.. He’ll be a raging maniac just like he was for the revenge fight with Morales—after stinking the joint out the 1st time.. He went after Erik like the guy slapped his mother.

Posted September 23, 2012 9:05 pm 


Insanity is not understanding that you can do the same thing over and over again but get a different result the next time. For example some people play the same lottery numbers every single week. But the weekly WINNERS got a different result than what happened the 1000 times they played it before. ALSO I stroked my woman 99 times last night but nothing happened until the 100th stroke.

Posted September 23, 2012 9:01 pm 


Manny isn’t going to stay on top of Marquez unless he’s stupid. Marquez is a precision counter puncher with EXCELLENT timing. Guys that stay on Top of Marquez get stopped. Just ask Diaz and Katsidis. Ask Floyd too. That’s why Floyd didn’t jump on Marquez like everyone wanted him too. He’s smart enough to KNOW that that is when Marquez is most dangerous….If Manny decides to jump on Marquez he will get his chin CHECKED with pinpoint precision.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:49 pm 

Ghetto Thug

too bad ur plan cant be executed in real life, at least not by punkcquiao, marquez will kick thas ass again by 4th time period

Posted September 23, 2012 8:48 pm 


Manny has to force a killing pace.. Don’t let Marquez box or counterpunch by staying on top of him. Stay dead in his nose hole.. Cut the ring off, drive in behind the jab, start throwing, and don’t let up.. Pretend he’s Morales—and just get mean, nasty, vicious, and savage.. Pac has to throw 150 punches a round until JMM is KTFO.. When Pac darts back outside for a breather, he has to make sure JMM doesn’t follow him back with his own flurries, because that’s what he does.. Just remember Marquez is an old man getting older every day.. He shouldn’t be able to stand up to a ferocious bell-to-bell assault.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:42 pm 


Marquez is BETTER than Bradley SO I must APPLAUD Manny for this type of ducking.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:29 pm 


I don’t understand the vitriol about this fight. I’ve been pretty critical of Pacquiao in many ways, but I don’t have a problem with this fight. It’s not like Pac is taking an easy route… Marquez has never been an easy fight for him and I would like at some point for one of these two to get a convincing win over the other (i.e. in my mind, they’ve pretty much fought 3 draws… I had Pac up by like 1 point in the first 2 fights, and then Marquez up by a similar slight margin in the third).

In my mind, Bradley, Marquez or Mayweather would all have sufficed as valid opposition for Pac at this point.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:23 pm 


Unless you’re talking about Science Einstein is the wrong guy to quote. I SAY that insanity is having extremely POOR to NO reasoning SKILLS. The only guy that’s insane in this equation is Roach. Because for some reason he thinks that Manny will score the knockout this time despite just watching his guy get clearly out Boxed last time out. And the time before that TOO.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:21 pm 


I predicted that Marquez will always WIN at least 5 rounds and I am CORRECT!! I HIGHLY doubt that Manny can score a knockout vs. a Superior Boxer. Marquez just beat Manny about 8 rounds to 4 in their last Fight.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:16 pm 


Einstein…, “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.” …If you get whipped, and try the same gameplan, strategies, and tactics in the rematch, using the same training regimen, campsite, trainers, and sparring partners—that would be insane—I don’t think that’s the case here.. Marquez changed a lot of things for his 3rd Pacquiao camp, with new strength and conditioning trainers, and the results were there. Pacquiao will make a lot of changes for this camp.. He’ll be sharper, stronger, and one Hell of a lot more aggressive for starters.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:15 pm 


Anonymous says…, “Mayweather came in at least 20 pounds over the agreed upon weight.” … Right. Everyone knows he’s a Super Middleweight.

Posted September 23, 2012 8:01 pm 

Brent Armstrong

The promoters are making a big mistake by continuing to give fans these reruns. I have paid for every Pacquio fight on HBO for the last 4 years, but not anymore. When the promoters wise up, and match Pacquio with Bradley, or Mayweather, then I’ll start paying to see Pacquio again!!!

Posted September 23, 2012 7:41 pm 


No KO either way, just like the 3 before…

Posted September 23, 2012 7:33 pm 


This kind of game is the reason boxing is losing support. Why did the Pacquiao – Mayweather fight never happen? Instead he fights this guy 4 times and doesn’t fight the guy who just beat him? Just retire, Pacquioa.

Posted September 23, 2012 6:47 pm 

Tomato Can

Te Tumbo, You know your boxing.

Posted September 23, 2012 5:07 pm 

Floyd’s Lawyer

Those who claims that this fight is boring then you are plainly a hypocrite! These two fighters always bring excitement in the ring PERIOD!!!

Posted September 23, 2012 4:49 pm 

zzzzz zzzzzz

i feel like Iv seen this fight 3 times before

Posted September 23, 2012 4:40 pm 


that’s the thing though its pedman who is the aggressor.

Posted September 23, 2012 4:29 pm 


How many times is Duckquiao going to fight the same fighters over and over? Fight some new blood for gosh sakes. Didn’t pay for the last one, not about to pay for another same ‘ol same ‘ol.

Posted September 23, 2012 4:28 pm 


in a word – NO!

Posted September 23, 2012 4:27 pm 


Oh in answer to Mr. Herron’s title question: No, Pac can’t knock out Marquez. Never has. Never will.

Posted September 23, 2012 4:06 pm 


te tumbo, are you really saying Pacquiao wasn’t “ever that good” over the course of obtaining eight world titles? Arum didn’t manage him for his whole career you know. And Freddie Roach didn’t train him over all of that time period either. It wasn’t always about money, even though now I think it’s more about that than anything else. Pacquiao earned his titles by fighting, not by receiving gifts–even if we didn’t always agree with who his oppponents were. As for Marquez/Pacquiao, I’ve watched every one of their fights at least twice. Only the outcome of fight number three is questionable to me. But Marquez couldn’t stay off his back in the first two fights and had he done so he would have won. But the scoring was correct and Marquez lost I and II. You can piss and moan about those two fights til the day you die, but Marquez truly lost both. Manny did enough to beat him each time. Sure, It wasn’t always about money, even though now I think it’s more about that than anything else. But to say Pacquaio takes “minimal risk” is just idiotic. Fighting over 60 times and winning 8 titles IS risky business.

Posted September 23, 2012 4:03 pm 


“clearly you’ve never smoked “weed” (who still calls it that?)” Uh,,,lots of people. Hmmm, maybe you haven’t heard of the current hit Showtime series “Weeds?” You know, it’s about a mom who sells pot?

Posted September 23, 2012 3:52 pm 

B Red

Manny is a joke. he totally ducked Bradley

Posted September 23, 2012 3:51 pm 

te tumbo

clearly you’ve never smoked “weed” (who still calls it that?), which qualifies you to comment on its effects(?). you apparently rely on the same degree of experience(?) to comment on Boxing. consequently, you’re easy to ignore or chop down at my leisure . . . stay tuned.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:45 pm 

te tumbo

Thank you.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:39 pm 

te tumbo

what’s interesting is how nobody has ever accused me of “hating” Marquez? or Ortiz? even though before during and after those matchups i confidently stated my opinion that they were overmatched and would require minor miracles to defeat Mayweather. even though i see evidence of Pacmania finally dissipating, it’s obvious that there are still plenty of fanboys and “experts’ still under Manny* and Arum’s spell. i can only compare it to someone still wondering “what happened to the Wizard of Oz?” even after Toto pulled the curtains to reveal the old man at the control booth behind the curtains (heavy sigh). yes. i must admit. i “hate” these imbeciles.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:37 pm 

The Real American Oak

Te tumbo, clearly you smoke weed with Jr. You are one biased mo fo. This time Pac will leave no question. If Marquez becomes the aggressor he is finished.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:36 pm 

Joseph Herron

:lol: Alright, Tumbo…we’re done, brother. :lol:

I’ll stick to conversing with fight fans who aren’t challenged with reading comprehension and are genuinely interested in sharing their insight. Enjoy the fights, man!! :lol:

Posted September 23, 2012 3:34 pm 


this is a joke pacman fighting the same old fights cuz he know floyd will end his career. This all a fixed in house fight bob is abougt to get yall again lol i use to like manny but he suck right know cuz he wont fight anybody but the same old safe hand pick fights

Posted September 23, 2012 3:32 pm 

te tumbo

the 39-year-old Marquez is already there. in fact, that’s what Team Pacquiao* is counting on. although, don’t expect an ESB “expert” to see it. they’re too busy regurgitating unoriginal analyses and vanilla-flavored opinions that they’re careful to apologize for lest it threaten to provoke a lively debate(?!) on the topic . . . WTF?!?

Posted September 23, 2012 3:30 pm 

te tumbo

please spare me your emotional psycho-analysis. do you have anything boxing-related to contribute?

Posted September 23, 2012 3:26 pm 

Joseph Herron

Nice nickname, brother!! :lol:

Posted September 23, 2012 3:25 pm 

Bra’s In my mouth

Pacquiao and Marquez will fight we’ll into their elder years.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:23 pm 

te tumbo

like is said, playing “nice” is for suckers and fanboys. i’m a serious fight-fan who is passionate about talking boxing. it’s the only thing that makes posting on ESB worthwhile and i would imagine writing for ESB as well. it’s never personal with me (i don’t even know you?). so Man-Up or Step Out. i don’t stroke egos or give passes. This is ESB . . . :twisted:

Posted September 23, 2012 3:22 pm 

te tumbo

after carefully re-reading your article . . . my original post stands. Pacquaio’s* “footwork” is non-existent. it’s spastic and amateurish but marginally effective because of his ability to hop and bounce all over a boxing ring which can place him out of an opponents punches but also places him out of range of landing his own punches, i.e., Terrible “footwork”. Btw, stop being so sensitive, e.g., apologizing for or denying your opinion in an opinion piece, citing the DLH v. Pacquiao* matchup as an example of Pacquiao’s* boxing ability, and citing “footwork” (improved or otherwise) as a Pacquiao* strength. playing “nice” is for suckers and fanboys. i’m a serious fight-fan who is passionate about talking boxing. it’s the only thing that makes posting on ESB worthwhile and i would imagine writing for ESB as well . . . peace.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:18 pm 

Joseph Herron

So now the truth reveals itself…your most recent post explains everything. Your biased hatred for Manny is really clouding your judgment. If you are correct in your evaluation of Pacquiao’s skill level, then I guess pretty much everyone else in the boxing universe is wrong…okay.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:15 pm 


Question: Can Pacquiao knockout Marquez? Answer: Who cares?

Marquez is past his prime. It would be prove nothing. Pacquiao should step to a real challenge. This is a stupid fight.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:14 pm 

te tumbo

i don’t think Pacquiao* is slipping. i just don’t think he was ever that good. Marquez punished and battered this guy for 11 rounds with a broken nose and following a three-KD first round. otherwise, Pacquiao* would still dominate David Diaz, a 145lb DLH or Cotto, and KO the china-chinned Hatton. after all, that was the promotional gameplan going into these fights. exploit opponent ambition/greed to compromise them with exotic conditions that favor Pacquiao*. they haven’t even been subtle about it but plenty of ESB posters have been particularly slow and dense (or ChiGal’s case, Pactarded) when it comes to recognizing it for what it’s always been. a promotional $trategic plan designed for optimal profits and minimal risk.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:07 pm 

te tumbo

Chicago Gal?!? that’s the Pactard whose dared target my handle? . . . duly noted . . . :twisted:

Posted September 23, 2012 3:01 pm 


No! That’s some wishful thinking on your parts though lol,What can & will happen though is Marquez will beat pac for the last 3 4 times.Pac didn’t knock him down last fight let alone win or ko him.You people willing to bet your house that pac will ko Marquez?………. Didn’t think so.

Posted September 23, 2012 3:00 pm 

te tumbo

correction: one need go no further than the 2nd round of the Mayweather v. Marquez matchup to understand this mismatch.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:57 pm 

te tumbo

one need go further than the 2nd round of the Mayweather v. Marquez matchup to understand this mismatch. after landing his best punch of the fight, Mayweather responded with an On-Demand KD of Marquez. the rest is academic. if anything (and for whatever reason), Mayweather proceeded to hand Marquez a particularly respectful but lopsided “L”. the disrespectful Pacquiao* won’t be so fortunate.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:55 pm 

Joseph Herron

It’s a strategy evaluation…I’m not trying to shove my boxing belief system down the throats of the ESB readers. I don’t make any predicitions or judgments of any kind in this article. I merely pose questions for the reader to ponder. Analytical pieces are more objective than an overtly opinionated editorial.

I have no agenda when I write, except to merely hype the event, the fighters, and to heighten awareness of certain aspects of the fight game.

Like I stated before, play nice.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:55 pm 

Tomato Can

Which part of what I posted is wishful thinking, Chicago Guy? I really don’t have any wishful thoughts concerning this fight, other than the ref, and judges get it right with no conspiracy.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:51 pm 


The agreed weight was 144lbs Mayweather came in at 146lbs.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:50 pm 

Joseph Herron

Tumbo, try to truly read what I’m writing instead of consistently being in debate mode. It seems that you merely want to counter emotionally and you’re not really thinking about what I’m writing or attempting to infer. In my last post, I simply referenced Manny’s much improved footwork…which is 100% true. His footwork is much improved.

Play nice, brother!! :grin:

Posted September 23, 2012 2:46 pm 

te tumbo

Btw, columnists, editorial, or opinion writers are expected to afflict their readers with their personal opinions and news reporters are expected to only inform the public with the objective and unbiased Facts, i.e., the inverted pyramid of journalism. this is an opinion piece. your opinion is mandatory.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:41 pm 

te rumba


Posted September 23, 2012 2:41 pm 

te rumba

That’s a wishful thinking coming from a Manny hater and a crybaby!!!

Posted September 23, 2012 2:39 pm 

Joseph Herron

Very well stated, Bible…but go easy on the ESB faithful. Like most fight fans who suffer from selective memory, they speak with their hearts before their intellect. It just means that they’re passionate about their favorite fighters and upcoming events.

Honestly, I love the fact that most boxing die-hards are so emotionally invested in these topics of discussion. God Bless us everyone!! :grin:

Posted September 23, 2012 2:38 pm 

te tumbo

“The 3rd fight did not happen because Manny had bigger fish to fry”?!? David Diaz was a bigger fish to fry than Juan Diaz, Campbell, Casamayor, or Marquez?!? you give the term “Bible” a bad name.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:38 pm 

Tomato Can

The odds got to be stacked against Pacquiao knocking out Marquez at this stage. Marquez nullifies Pacquiao’s physical advantages with superior technique. Marquez isn’t going to lose his technique over night, but Pacquiao will have trouble keeping his physical advantages at this point of his career. Unless Marquez makes some unprecedented mistake, Manny isn’t going to knock him out. Manny will have the same problems as always in this fight. But if Manny choses to fight 30 seconds per round, like he did against Bradley, he’ll lose this time.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:34 pm 

The Bible of Boxing

I laugh at the nonsense I sometimes read on these sites. First the 1st rematch was not made because Marquez wanted more money and took on Chris John in his country and lost a close decision. Of course he b-itched because he expected to go into a popular boxer’s home and get a close decision. I mean no one gets a close decision in Mexico, Argentina, Germany and many other countries.Even in the US the American or the more high profile or popular fighter usually gets the decision.
The 3rd fight did not happen because Manny had bigger fish to fry. He moved to lightweight then fate intervened when Floyd refused the 2nd Oscar fight and Manny moved up to take it. He then dropped to 140 to meet Hatton, back up to welter for Cotto and stayed at Welter. Then he beat Margarito in a one time stop at Jr. Middle but took a battering and said he was done giving up weight and would stay at 147.
Marquez remained at lightweight but agreed to move up to welter for a 3rd match. At first he did not get the fight because he wanted too much money so Bradley got it. Marquez did not draw flies in his fights but was making demands. Tat is the history between them.
For those that feel there is no need for rematches especially when one fighter has beaten another thoroughly that is also a joke. History has shown us guys who fought often and sometimes one guy has looked dominant only to lose the next time. When two guys are top quality, anything can happen if one makes a mistake. Tony Zale and Rocky Graziano come to mind when it comes to brutal matches.
Can Manny or Marquez ko each other? Based on what we have seen in their trilogy, it seems more likely that Manny could be the ko winner but Marquez has also hurt Manny and now he is seems much bigger and hitting harder while absorbing Manny’s better. These guys are evenly matched and both are slightly on the downside so anything can happen.
Now do I care if Manny and Floyd fight? Not anymore! It has lost its appeal but it still could be a decent match. Cotto showed that Floyd can be bullied and slowed down enough that he has to stand and fight as he no longer has the legs. He is however hitting harder; wheras I did not think he could ko Manny, it is now possible because he has the heart and guts to stand and fight if he has to and Manny will make him fight.
When Hagler and Sugar finally met it was still intriguing but it too had lost some of its gloss as Hagler had slowed down and lost his hunger. Sugar got the decision in an entertaining but not scintillating fight. Maybe Manny and Floyd might be…but I no longer care. I used to be on these sites duking with various fans but now no one writes in with the passion like before. A clear sign its “best before date” has long passed. I will not pay to see!

Posted September 23, 2012 2:26 pm 

te tumbo

Btw, if you want to see truly great footwork, cue-up some videos of prime Hector Camacho. now THAT is great footwork. always in range to land his punches while invariably out of range of his opponent’s leads and counters. Pacquiao* “footwork” consistently puts him out of range of both and he commonly turns his back to opponents when he miscalculates and fails to hop and bounce far enough. Pacquiao’s* footwork is spastic and amateurish compared to a true great like Hector Camacho.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:23 pm 

joseph Herron

Tumbo, I’m merely referring to the fight strategy of Pacquiao…any knowledgeable fight-fan knows I’m not making an exact comparison.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:23 pm 


PEDman didn’t K.O light-welter Bradley,nor did he KO’d old man Mosley,and he certainly won’t be a problem For Marquez let6 alone K.O him!,instead the opposite might be true judging by their last fight.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:17 pm 

te tumbo

please(?!?). DLH was a dehydrated punching bag for that matchup. Roach himself stated that he knew the fight was over for DLH when he saw him trying to rehydrate with IV needles on the day of the fight and still weighing less than Pacquiao* on fight-night. NO knowledgeable fight-fan considers that matchup to be a true measure of DLH’s or Pacquiao’s* prime ability. DLH arrogantly and stupidly considered Pacquiao* a steppingstone to Hatton and/or Cotto and made the fatal mistake of dieting NOT training for his matchup v. Pacquiao*.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:17 pm 

Iron Mike

I think Manny knows he lost the last fight, if you look at his reaction he was surprised,reminded me of when Mosley was giving the win over Oscar in the second fight, Manny looked more surprised when he got the nod over Juan in the 3rd fight then he was when they gave Bradley the fight over Manny, Manny has shown more signs of slipping then Juan has, I expect a very hard fought close fight-peace

Posted September 23, 2012 2:16 pm 


The problem is that, as they both age, it could be Marquez with the advantage, as he’s technically superior and Pac depends more on physical attributes. It’s a shame they didn’t have this fight in DF as was mentioned at some point, it would have been one for the ages. For all the flack Pac gets, you got to give him props for taking a fourth fight with the great Marquez.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:13 pm 

joseph Herron

In my personal opinion, which I rarely interject into my articles, I believe that Marquez is too far into the psyche of Manny to expect a different result. Pacquiao gives Marquez too much respect in my opinion. It almost seems like Manny always falls into the same traps of moving straight into JMM’s line of fire.

We’ve seen Pacquiao use the entire ring against a very proficient counter puncher like Oscar De La Hoya and throw a more resourceful number of punches. But for some strange reason, Manny never implements his much improved footwork to his advantage against JMM…at least he didn’t in their last meeting.

Most fight experts forget about the mental aspect of this pairing when trying to breakdown strategies.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:12 pm 

te tumbo

Good to hear and likewise IRON MIKE.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:07 pm 

te tumbo

Yep. also the reason for the confident if not disrespectful guarantees of an early KO win for Pacquiao*. i’m hoping that the opposite scenario doesn’t unfold: that they thoroughly prepare for a still-prime Marquez that fails to show up for their first legitimate rematch. a KO might be possible in this scenario.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:04 pm 


I can see them trying to catch them slipping. I honestly think they took the 3rd fight for that reason. At the end of the day should JMM avoid age catching up with him, it’s probably going to be a very similar fight to the last 2. I for one will enjoy the fight.

Posted September 23, 2012 2:00 pm 

Iron Mike

Brother Te Tumbo- all is good my friend thank you, been a long time, Hope all is well with you and your family -PEACE to the great TE TUMBO

Posted September 23, 2012 1:59 pm 

te tumbo

Peace to IRON MIKE. how are you brother?

Posted September 23, 2012 1:57 pm 

te tumbo

IMO, Pacquiao’s* biggest advantage and the primary reason they’ve dragged this rivalry out for Nine (9) F’n Years is being able to catch Marquez at the moment of his inevitable decline. it’s the reason their 2nd match took three years to confirm and another four years to confirm the third. it’s no coincidence that this is the first legitimate rematch of their prolonged rivalry. Marquez’s prime has been judged on a fight-by-fight basis for the past three years. Team Pacquiao* is desperately hoping that they will FInally catch him slipping.

Posted September 23, 2012 1:55 pm 


Of course it’s always possible being that Pac has power. There’s always the possibility JMM grows old in that fight. But I truly believe these two are tailor made for each other. I think it’s always going to be a close fight that ends in a decision.

Posted September 23, 2012 1:51 pm 

Iron Mike

I just dont see this happening at all, Juan has prove over and over that is is truly an all time great fighter, I see another close fight,hopefully Stevie Wonder is not a judge-peace

Posted September 23, 2012 1:50 pm 

te tumbo

if a KO is dependent on Pacquiao* becoming a technically-superior? it’ll never happen. Pacquiao* has already had ample if not excessive time and opportunity to up his technical game and has actually regressed under Roach’s tutelage. when the going gets tough (as it always does v. Marquez) Pacquiao* will predictably default to his natural strengths of power, speed, and durability. he’s an instinctual not a thinking or ring-smart fighter. that is Marquez’s department and just one of his advantages. they don’t call him “Dinamita” for nothing.

Posted September 23, 2012 1:46 pm 

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Pacquiao vs. Marquez IV: Can Manny knock-out JMM?

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