After the smoke clears, What does Mayorga's victory say about the welterweights?

By James McDonnell

19.07 - Before I go any further, let me state I haven't seen this fight yet in it's entirety, I'm waiting for a tape to be sent over to me from a collector pal of mine. Unfortunately no company operating in the UK thought to schedule the fight live over here, at least not to the best of my knowledge.

However, I think Mayorga's victory tells a lot about the current welterweight scene, which to me appears to be in a very real state of flux.

It's a bizarre situation. Mosley, who was regarded by most, if not all, as the current king of the welters, gets taken apart in a first match with Forrest, and then giving it his all in a second, makes it much closer, but cannot overcome the taller, stronger rangier fighter.

Then with everyone trumping Forrest up as the next future P4P star of the division (something I was certainly never convinced about), he takes on Mayorga, an apparently crude brawler he is expected to dominate with ease, and in a strange quirk of fate, engages in a two fight series reminiscent of his own fights with Mosley, losing the first unequivocally, and then putting on a much better performance in the 2nd, only to lose again.

So, where does that leave the various protagonists in the Welters?

Well, first let's look at the man who is probably enjoying a fat Cuban (cigar that is, but who knows, he seems a man of appetites) as we speak.

Well, I, along with many other supposedly more knowledgeable pundits simply did not envisage Mayorga winning by decision. The conventional wisdom being that a crude brawler like Mayorga couldn't possibly outbox a skilful chap like Forrest. Well, that turned out to be bunkum.

Although Forrest avoided getting his chops slapped all over the ring this time around, he couldn't win the decision, and that says something very important about Mayorga, which is that he possesses one of the most valuable qualities any fighter can have, the ability to impose his gameplan, his will, on his opponent.

Forrest made it clear after the fight in a post-match interview, that he simply was unable to try any harder to win, and that he was as focused as he could be.

"First of all, let me explain it to you like this. Let me set up the whole scenario. In terms of this fight, this was the biggest fight of my career. To me this was the ultimate challenge, the ultimate make or break. I did everything I could in terms of prefight sacrifice, not only did I not talk to the media, I did not talk to my family and I did not talk to my friends. I was pretty much in complete isolation as I was training for that fight.

One of the things that I have always been able to do during my career is that once I put my mind to a task I was able to accomplish that particular goal."

"That's the first time in my life that I completely focused on my task, only to come out unsuccessful. I thought that I did everything that I could do to beat this guy, and I still came up short. " (Courtesy of fightnews)

So how far can Mayorga go? Well, Mayorga is always going to be limited by his style of fighting, and seems to enjoy fighting that way anyhow. It's hard to see him doing an Arturo Gatti and changing his approach to the business of fighting. Mayorga prides himself on his ability to take a shot, and to dish out more severe punishment, and to an extent this is where some of his power lies.

It seems clear that Mayorga is a frightening man to fight. The clips I've seen of Forrest running backward around the ring tripping over his feet testify to that. Forrest also hit him with some hard clean shots, which Mayorga took without flinching, even inviting Forrest to have some free shots. This must be very disconcerting, especially if (like Forrest) you're considered a strong puncher.

Lest we forget, this is the same Forrest who knocked Mosley around the ring like a bowling pin in their first fight, and whose body shots elicited audible grunts of pain from one of the toughest men in the business.

Mayorga is a very strong welterweight, indeed he's campaigned at light middleweight before, he's not been unbeatable in the past, but as the proud owner of the WBA and WBC middleweight titles, he is likely to be a lot harder to beat now than he was then. It's not uncommon for fighters who seemed ordinary prior to winning a title, to grow in stature once they have a belt around their waist. Forrest is no mug, and it was Mayorga's bristling confidence prior to and during the bout which was partly Forrest's undoing.

I don't think Mayorga is going to be a dominant champion for very long, but he certainly has some exciting fights ahead of him. He's already talking about taking on De La Hoya, and moving on up to take on Hopkins. There is of course also the chance that he would face Corey Spinks, or even more tantalisingly, another Latino welterweight champion, Antonio Margarito, who holds the WBO belt.

I think Mayorga is a breath of fresh air. I've heard him criticised for his antics in the ring and at weigh ins, but I don't think people should take this too seriously. Personally I think it's a bit of kiddology on his part. Sure, it makes him look like a joke, but hey, don't you think that's what he wants his opponents to think, that he's a beer swilling, cigar smoking pizza chomping bum? Forrest admitted to taking him lightly first time around, and look what happened there?

Anyone who has fought at a relatively high level (Mayorga did win a fedalatin title) surely constitutes at light middleweight, and can make middleweight is doing their training, and judging by the pace his fight with (reportedly) Forrest was fought at, there's little wrong with his fitness.

At any rate, have people forgotten that Carlos Monzon admitted to smoking 2 cartons of cigarettes a day, or that Roberto Duran and Cesar Chavez were not averse to a crate or two of boozo collapso those that believe that top-flight athletes, and especially boxers, don't let off any steam and live their lives in Spartan seclusion away from the temptations of wine women and song, are being rather naïve.

Ok so Mayorga isn't the Second Coming of Duran as some people seem keen to insist, but he's a better fighter than some people are giving him credit for. It's unfair to Mayorga to suggest that Forrest was somehow a bum, when the very same people were more than likely the ones insisting that Forrest was a future great after he beat Mosley.

I think the truth is that Mosley, let alone Mayorga, or Forrest aren't all-time great welterweights, but for the time being, until someone proves otherwise, Mayorga remains very much the man, and he has every right to sit back and smoke a fat Cuban. He may not be around at the top flight for that long, but let's enjoy him while we can. He's forced a fight out of Vernon Forrest, and he threatens to take anyone into the trenches at some point.

What about Forrest and Mosley, where do they go now? Well in a strange quirk of fate, both of them now find themselves with two back to back losses on their records, Mosley with a win tacked on to the end, an unsatisfactory affair against former Light Middleweight champ

Of the two, Forrest would seem to have lost the most. Despite having conquered Shane twice, his inability to make a fight of it in the 2nd fight against Mayorga has hurt his reputation in some ways more than the blowout loss in their first bout.

Forrest was never a marquee fighter, and never had a reputation outside of the boxing fraternity (and even there his reputation wasn't exactly solidly upheld) to match Mosley's. Thought there were some who talked about him being a P4P'er following his wins over Mosley, most people realised he just had the right style to beat Mosley, a former lightweight.

Forrest seems likely to me to be consigned to the dump of peripheral champions by these two losses, there isn't likely to be much clamour for him to face anyone in particular, it's obvious he can't beat Mayorga, and that Mosley cannot beat him, and so he's left with few options but to avoid Mayorga, and try to win titles where Mayorga isn't.

Mayorga may or may not have his next fight at Light Middle, in which case the natural progression for a fighter as tall and lanky as Forrest is blocked. It's hard to see where there are any big fights for the time being for Forrest.

Mosley of course is going to be fighting his old adversary Oscar De La Hoya, in what is a pretty hotly anticipated contest, and a real chance for Mosley to vindicate himself, and disprove the naysayers who think he is on the slide.

A win over DeLaHoya will raise his stock right back to where it once was, as Oscar has since risen up the P4P rankings. Like Forrest was the beneficiary of the size of Shane's reputation, so Shane Mosley looks to bask in the refracted glory of his victim if he wins.

If he loses, he can still maintain a big fight reputation if it is a close battle, and the option of a third match will always be a possibility if Oscar deems it necessary. Mosley may yet have 2 or 3 big victories left in him, if the loss to Forrest turns out to be a style matter, then Mosley may yet be unbeatable by anyone else.

Speaking of these two men, what of Mayorga's chances of beating either of them?

Well, right now, I give Mayorga a chance against anyone, maybe a slim one in some cases, but a chance nonetheless. Mayorga is in his prime right now, he's strong at the weight, has a great chin, and is a crunching puncher with relentless aggression, and most importantly his confidence is soaring.

His disregard for reputations means that whoever fights him had better bring their game face on.

Against Mosley, I give Mayorga a pretty decent chance, it's a 50-50 in my book, especially at light middleweight. Mosley for me is fighting too far above his best weight, which probably would have been light welterweight if he had chosen not to leapfrog the division and pop straight to welterweight.

Mosley is by far the naturally smaller man, and it's worth remembering that he struggled with the strength of Forrest and for the first time in his career felt himself at a deficit for punchpower.

However, the old adage 'styles make fights' must be remembered, and there are some very important differences in the way that Forrest and Mosley would approach a fight with Mayorga.

Mosley is a naturally aggressive fighter, he likes to come forward throwing clusters of shots and impose his pace on the fight. Now although this would appear to suit Mayorga, who likes to have his opponent in front of him, the handspeed and punching technique of Mosley would cause him far more problems than the cautious display of Forrest in his second bout with Mayorga.

Mayorga throws looping shots, he barely throws any straight shots at all, and this allows Mosley to get inside those shots and deliver his own straight punches and short hooks. Mosley also possesses excellent body work, and if there is any lack of conditioning, Mosley's heavy shots to the ribs and midriff will expose that.

In addition, it's worth remembering that Mosley has the reach advantage, having a 74 inch reach to only 69 for Mayorga, who is only an inch taller than Sugar Shane.

Mayorga holds the cards in other departments however. Being the naturally bigger and stronger man, he has the ability to take a heavy shot, as he proved with his total disdain for Forrest's power. Remember, this is the same Forrest who had Mosley wincing from body shots, and heading for the canvas in their first fight, and whose right hand power shots stopped Mosley in his tracks on occasion in their second.

Forrest landed some big shots on Mayorga in their second and first bouts, and Mayorga never looked close to crumbling on either occasion, so what chance does Mosley have of hurting him. This isn't really the case though, what a single shot won't do, a brace of shots can do when landed in quick succession, and Mosley is a combination puncher extraordinaire.

The question really for me is whether Mosley really has the guns at Welterweight and Light Middleweight, if he can't hurt Mayorga, then he's got trouble, but he could still eke out a win, but in the latter half of the fight, Mayorga is likely to come on strong if he can walk through Shane's best shots. I can envisage Mosley getting stopped late in the fight after taking heavy punishment, but I can envisage Shane grinding Mayorga down with superior technique and his fast combinations too.

Whatever, It's a fight I would certainly pay to see, presuming anyone had the good sense to screen such a fight in the UK of course, nobody thought to show Hopkins v Trinidad, and numerous other big title fights! I think that a fight between Mayorga and Mosley will happen if Mosley beats DeLaHoya.

Speaking of the golden boy, what about his chances against Mayorga. In this instance, I feel a bit more confident about predicting the outcome. Oscar is a better all round fighter than Mosley, and has a more defensively minded approach. He's tall and rangy, and works well from the outside. He's not a powerpuncher obviously, but his punch placement and combination punching

The only concern is that Oscar doesn't move as much as he once did. Since working with Mayweather senior, he's changed his style around a bit, and his use of the right hand lead leaves him open, but Mayorga isn't exactly a counterpuncher.

Oscar's already been in with big hitters, and better ones than Mayorga in my opinion. Vargas is probably a better technical fighter than Mayorga, and punches harder with single shots too. He's not as good a pressure fighter, but Oscar took some big shots from him without folding or abandoning his gameplan. Oscar of course also 'beat' Trinidad, another ferocious puncher, and Mayorga's superior in pretty much every department.

Even at light middleweight, which is a natural weight for Mayorga, you've got to favour Oscar to pull out a decision, but even there I give Mayorga a chance merely because of his overflowing confidence.

As for a fight with Hopkins, I think we're delving into the realms of Fantasy, or at least Mayorga is, Hopkins has taken shots from fighters who were killers at super middleweight later in their careers, and is leagues ahead of Mayorga is every department, but as Chris Rock said, 'you never know..' Maybe Hopkins will age overnight and fall asleep between rounds, but that's the only way Mayorga wins.

The fact is, the welterweight and light-middleweight divisions haven't had it this good in quite some time, and however long Mayorga's flame burns brightly for, those divisions will be smoking for as long as he remains at or near the top.