By Fred De La Riva

21.09 - I never ceased to be surprised in boxing. Last week’s DLH/Mosley II decision surprised me. The wide difference of opinion between the television audience and the boxing writers sitting at press row surprised me. Hell, even the number of responses and e-mails I received regarding what I thought was a nothing of an article surprised me.

One would think that simple logic would suffice when judging a fight. Who controlled the pace of the fight?

Oscar.

Who landed the majority of the punches?

Oscar.

Who executed the better game plan??

Oscar.

Who won the fight?

Shane

Oh well, such is the game. I’ve disagreed with decisions before and I’ll disagree with them again, but let me get something off my chest before I respond to your comments and e-mails.

Can we please lay off the silly excuse that turning off the sound will give a different result?

Being Hispanic, I often watch fights with non-English speaking fans. So how can the "biased" commentating argument be explained? The truth is that it can’t, especially when facing the fact, that a good majority of most non-English speaking Hispanics do not like De La Hoya. I have also spoken to Koreans, Russian and Vietnamese with very choppy English regarding this fight. Guess whom most of them picked? DLH.

In addition those of us who understand the language, often scoff at comments made by Lampley and Foreman. Hell, I even disagree with Harold Lederman’s scorecard more often than not as he is swayed by late round flurries or a couple of good punches in the round. So switching the sound off is a "mute" point. (Pun intended)

And don’t get me going on the writer’s on press row picking Shane. I could argue that they sway each other’s opinions and most are lemmings that fall to peer pressure. I could argue that there are advantages and disadvantages to watching the fight on television. being there. I been to plenty of fights and are often surprised at what I missed when I watch the fight later on tape. Anyway, enough of my pontifications and on to your e-mails.

U see a fight, not hear it, so if u do turn it off, does it make a diff. Of course it does, commentary from the side makes a huge influence, I mean why even bring it up, if its not true.

krzyspc • 09/15/03 07:29am

Krzyspc,

It only makes a huge influence if you’re a casual fan, but I am sure even yourself find yourself often ridiculing some of the HBO’s statements. How can you explain the opinions of those who don’t speak the language?

?
Dear author of this article, the only sense you don't use when watching a fight is common sense. You are just as biased as the "Oscar-haters". There is no way you can look at this fight objectively, because you are an "Oscar-lover." The fight was close, a lot of real journalist (four out of five) as well as the judges and sports personalities thought Mosley won with the sound on. How do you like that?

Gatti Fan1 • 09/15/03 09:27am

Biased? I am from L.A. and I actually like Mosley’s fighting style more than DLH’s, so there goes your "Oscar-lover" argument down the drain. Now if you are giving any credibility to the opinion of most sport personalities and writers when it comes to boxing, then you are a nut and hereby demoted to GattiFan2. How do you like that?

Mr De La Riva I have read your letter in Dougie Fischer's Monday Mailbag at Maxboxing.com and hope that you can now come to terms with the fact that your man lost a close fight. I scored the fight 114-114 and have no problem with either man winning the decision. If a gun was put to my head I would probably have edged towards a De La Hoya victory but many rounds were close and for anyone to say Oscar dominated is just plain wrong. The judges were judging the fight based on quality and not quantity of punches - when the fight is viewed with this in mind it is easier to see the positives of Mosley's performance on Saturday. I do however think that this is a questionable way of judging fights as it is an assessment of a fighter's power rather than ability to win a fight through boxing skill. Nevertheless this is how the fight was viewed by those who matter at ringside - the judges - and there was no "disgraceful" "robbery" here.

El Martillo DIAMANTE!!! • 09/15/03 02:17pm

What are you a stalker? I’ve also posted on the rec.sports.boxing newsgroup and a few other forums. I respect Doug Fischer’s opinion, but it doesn’t mean I have to agree with him. He had the Morales/Ayala fight close too, remember? Now Oscar’s punches weren’t as strong as Mosley’s especially towards the end of the fight, but they were in no way punches similar to those thrown by Camacho Sr, which are as light as a feather. Now the gun to the head might sway your opinion, but I know what I saw.

Just to clarify for you Mr De La Riva:

The Junior-Middleweight CHAMPION Of The WORLD... "SUGAR" SHANE MOSLEY.

El Martillo DIAMANTE!!! • 09/15/03 02:19pm

And just to clarify to you that your name translated into English is Diamond Hammer, which sounds a bit light on the loafers to me.

Hmmm ... De La Riva ... thinks De La Hoya got robbed ... are you guys related, maybe?

This was a professional prizefight, and numbers of punches landed mean less than how effective those punches were. DLH was never close to hurting Mosley with his pitty-pat jab or "power" shots, whereas Mosley really hurt DLH on several occasions. The "controversy" here reminds me very much of Toney-Jirov, where you also had a lot of people using amateur judging standards to claim Jirov won easily. Unlike Jirov, DLH never hit the deck, but had this been an old-fashioned 15-rounder, he might very well have.

To those who bring up Mosley looking "shocked" at the decision as an argument that he also thought DLH won the fight: Mosley was in shock not because he didn't think he'd won in the ring, but because he won a close decision ON THE CARDS to the Las Vegas cash cow, the "house fighter" De La Hoya. Some of DLH's postfight whining, erm, I mean press conference statements, make it clear that he expected to have the "ties or close decisions go to the house" rule in effect in this one. That's some nerve - a guy like DLH who's been the beneficiary of more than one dubious decision crying like a spoiled little girl when one doesn't go his way.

I predicted DLH UD12 - I'm glad Mosley proved me wrong. Big props to Shane for resurrecting his floundering career in grand fashion.

Eric the Viking • 09/15/03 06:24pm

First of all Oscar threw an effective job and it was not "pitty-pat " as you claim. Granted Shane proved to throw the harder punches down the stretch, but there just weren’t enough of them in my opinion. And since this is the first time I’ve spoken to a Viking, let me inform you that the De La Riva’s are related to the De La Hoya’s as much as the Mc Farland’s are related to the McDonald’s.

Fred de la sucks-a. Man, you are awful.
Sugar Shane won that fight. Open your eyes.

jet li • 09/16/03 04:49am

Jet Li,

Yes I am awful and blind, but at least I don’t steal another man’s name.

Anyone who thinks that Mosley won this fight is a (expletive) idiot. Shane was humiliated and his reaction after the final bell rang and his face when the decision was read say it all. Oscar is still the KING. Hey Shane, have some balls and give the belts back. You got your ass handed to you!! Not one Mosley fan can give a reason why Shane won, because he did not win! You (expletive) don't have a leg to stand on. Oscar beat that "boy" down!!

Dragonman • 09/16/03 05:23am

Dragonman,

Those who thought Mosley won aren’t idiots, just wrong.

I think Shane looked a little rusty in there, I think and know if he would have had a tune up he would have performed better... The more your in the Ring, the more fluent are... Give Shane a break, HE WILL LOOK BETTER...

Quit the ridicoulous crying, MUST I KEEP MENTIONING WHITACKER AND QUARTEY!!!!

Shane hurt Oscar bad in that Fight, Oscar faded, Shane grew stronger.. I totally agree, this isn't Amataur scoring!!

Shane is a class act, IN DEFEAT, AND IN WINNING, Oscar should take notes.. Move on people. robboxer • 09/16/03 02:52am

You might be right robboxer. Shane might have been rusty or he is starting to decline. As for the Whitacker and Quartey fights, I think Sweet Pea gave the fight way by giving away the last 2-3 rounds. He blew it. Ike should have won, but two wrongs don’t make a right.

Fred, it's writers like you that are perpetuating controversy with your biased poems that betray your true loyalty. Anybody who disagrees with you and how you saw the fight is an Oscar hater, huh? STUPID!!!!! All this crying, moaning, and groaning about the decision that was close but not controversial is just making me sick! Those of you behaving in such a way and writing this type of crap that attacks anyone with a differing opinion than yours are plain hypocrits for what you blame others for you are doing yourself. Enough said, grow up!-Month in Washington • 09/16/03 02:26am

First of all I am not perpetuating anything, and my loyalty is only to boxing. I thought Shane lost and I expressed it in a silly poem. Was it a stupid poem? Of course, but I never said I was Dylan Thomas.

sometimes the readers dont know jack its not just the writers all the time guys people know what they saw you cant take that from them and sound from a tele set is not in any way going to change my opinon or my score am i a de la hoya fan NO im a fan of the sport and i have seen alot of boxing in my time and i can honestly tell you this in no way did shane mosley TAKE that title from De La Hoya nuff said challenge me all you want but you sound like a fool to people who know what really happened-Commander Evander • 09/16/03 01:25am

Dude you are reading my mind.

This victory is not tarnished you moron. Some eastside writers are nuts. Shane won the fight, so the judges scored it correctly. So did the AP and the ringside reporters who gave it to Mosley.

formerfighter • 09/16/03 01:17am

Following your logic then Tapia did defeat Medina, Holyfield did draw with Lennox Lewis in their first fight and Toney also defeated Tiberi because after all the judges said so.

Since no one side is able to prove their case conclusively, the fight is an obvious draw. I had DLH by a slim margin but I could easily see why the Judges went the other way.
To all the cry babies who just can't stand to have even a close fight go the other way than they had it...GROW UP!!
I can't believe even some writers like this De La Riva clown are crying foul since most of the writers at ringside had it for Mosley. How can you claim Judging incompetence when your peers saw it the same way the Judges did!
I expect this type of whinning by the masses but not from professional writers.Shameful article from a supposed expert.

Crunchy • 09/16/03 12:50am

What I can’t believe is that of all the nicknames you could have chosen, the best you could come up with was "Crunchy". Jesus…………………..

Grant it,  you are a novice fight fan/ commentator but Fighting 101.....Fights have never and will never be decided by one dude attempting to count punches ( Compubox ).  As in our judicial system,  it is judged by a Judges, sworn professionals in their careers.  Many are former fighters.   The Compubox dude has no certifiable skills on judging a clean blow vs a slap shot or maybe he had a bad angle all together vs the 3 judges.  It would have been a travesty for Fighting ( not boxing ),  if a coward that runs for 12 rounds trying to survive won.  Fighting does not need models/ singers/  pretty-boys/ track runners or golden-boys that are trying to preserve their arched eye-brows and smooth skin.  We need FIGHTERS –Tommy Willis

Tommy,

Finally! Someone who uses his real name. Anyway I am not a novice fight fan. I’ve been avid about this sport for 20 years. Now your main point of saying implying that DLH is not needed in boxing and that he is not a fighter is asinine. Oscar has fought and beaten the best in his career. As of now, he is boxing. Don’t hate the man because he was born with skills and has been attractive to the opposite sex. He is destined to be one of the most successful businessmen in the sport and his story is what dreams are made of. Love him or hate him, give the man his props.

De La Riva or is it De La Hoya; the fight was close and I don't find fault with anyone that believes Oscar pulled it out because I can see it that way. But those on the other side simply flat out dispute any possibility of a different interpretation.  That is where I find fault with the other side who's passion has clearly blinded them to any other possibility. Some tidbits for you to chew on Mr. De La Riva:

1. 18 ring side writers had it for Mosley; 8 for Oscar; 4 had it a draw

2. More than 6 accounts of the fight by writers who were present at the fight (most who predicted an Oscar win) dispute the claims of crowd outrage. The word from those who were there, was that the crowd accepted the decision without much brew-ha-ha.

3. The compubox numbers DLH supporters (and those who simply thought he won) are clinging on to reflect the scoring if you examine them. DLH according to compubox landed 121 jabs in the fight. He landed 80 of those jabs thru the 1st six rounds though, and only 41 the rest of the fight. The judges gave credit to Oscar for working his left hand early; he was awarded 5 out of 7 on two cards & 4 out of 7 on the other. This shows that Oscar was given credit by the judges (but apparently not to the satisfaction of DLH fans).

4. Oscar landed slightly more powerpunches (21 to be exact) but like most of you have already stated, they weren't the harder shots (not even close). Oscar's biggest problem was that he didn't begin to throw them consistently until rounds 7-12 but by then they had nothing on them. And it was he and not Mosley who was being hurt. In fact Oscar outlanded Shane in some of those later rounds but it just didn't matter because it was clear who's punches were the more damaging blows.

5. With all this said it is possible to have Mosley winning the fight by two points (I can't agree with anyone having the fight more than two points for either fighter) & I also believe it possible to give the close rounds to Oscar and have him winning the fight. But Oscar wasn't given the close rounds and Oscar fans like Oscar are screaming bloody murder.

6. There was no robbery just a close decision that went in the direction of the least popular fighter, and exacerbated by an unprofessional HBO announcing crew that looked to influence the opinion of their audience and succeeded (I am primarily talking about their conduct after the fight). And this has given DLH fans the hot air to fuel their bellyaching but luckily there appears to be enough responsible boxing press who see this for what it is, sour grapes!

Peace Out!-John Mendoza

John,

Fights should not be judged on who landed the harder punches, but on a combination of ring generalship, defense and effective aggressiveness. Besides, Shane did not land enough of them. I thought DLH was superior, but the judges thought otherwise. And John, it’s De La Riva, not De La Hoya.