That’s bunch bullsht Tark!Posted August 31, 2014 3:07 am
Ukraine says…, “Tark-”197lb Leon Spinks beat the crap out of Ali”?? When did that happen mate? It was a split decision lost and Ali won the rematch which was unanimous, check your history mate.”
I watched the fights mate… Ali took a bad beating… I don’t care how Art Lurie, who was a personal friend of Ali, scored the fight.
Spinks won the rematch too if you want to be factual about it… but I believe Spinks tried to give the fight to Ali by not even trying — and the judges obliged him… and Ali wasn’t the real Heavyweight Champion despite that “win.”
The REAL Heavyweight Champion at that time was Larry Holmes, who Ali ducked to fight the lowly cherry-pick Spinks…
Ali was the only top fighter Leon Spinks ever beat… Everybody else smashed little Leon right through the canvas.Posted August 30, 2014 11:33 pm
@laj ; yes , you corrected it , I just did not see it . I
B E A R S
I suck cock and smoke crack!Posted August 29, 2014 7:34 pm
wlad is a different fighter since he started working with emanuel steward and all pathetic sacks of s@it like sracemond can do is bring up wlad losses from before wlad began working with emanuel. and the brewster 1 fight was a fluke – see the rematch. silly, sad, racist little ‘man.’ time to man up and accept that wlad is one of the very best HW of all time, white skin and all.Posted August 29, 2014 3:59 pm
In other words Pov landed a 6 punch combo on Charr. Wlad has landed too many clean fast combos to even remember (like the 4 hook combos on Ray Austin & Mormeck), especially in the first half of his career where he was strictly offense driven.Posted August 29, 2014 2:19 pm
Hi K2, yea I thought I corrected that and said Charr, but maybe not. Thanks for reading the posts.Posted August 29, 2014 12:23 pm
@lay ; meant to say : ” read your posts ” ! SorryPosted August 29, 2014 10:09 am
@ laj ; I like your posts , there is just one thing ; when
Fried chicken and watermelon’ wow funny sht man…really original! lol get therapy over your Sredmond issue before you do a Robin “Mork” Williams and hang your self with a belt!Posted August 28, 2014 10:32 pm
Don’t let Sredmond own you like that…you probably have dreams about him at night don’t you? Don’t commit suicide and turn into a Nazi because Sredmond got in your head. Ali sipping straws, he 70 so what! He lived his life..Posted August 28, 2014 10:28 pm
Woulda, coulda, shoulda
Brewster is blind in one eye now and out of boxing. But he will always have April 2014 and the support of RACEMOND. Whoopdeefluckingdoo.Posted August 28, 2014 9:34 pm
B E A R S
how many first and second round ko’s does sanders have? did sanders stop this peak wlad or a completely dif wlad over a decade ago? would anyone put their money on sanders in a rematch with a peak wlad? yeah your smoking crack.
sanders has more first and second ko’s than clay and he has a higher ko % than cassius clay. i did not know a golfer was better than clay when it comes to those powerhouse stats
hating it dude
hahahahahahPosted August 28, 2014 8:10 am
Laj, Brewster and Purrity BEAT Wlads AZZ and that is what happened! You Klit Clowns have choices you can either say Wlad is a QUITTER? or you can give his opponents their due for creating situations where he could NOT continue… Acting like Purrity and Brewster did not land any telling blows is a SAD dismissal of reality… They BOTH out toughed Wlad and sent him home early against Brewster he looked utterly pathetic after 6 rounds..”
Yes but wlad is still on top forever and it kills you hahAhahahahaha …!
Utterly pathetic is for you not to
Oh and mc call and Rahman beating of Lewis is pathetic too since you call losing “pathetic ” then let’s call everyone eh?
At least in wlads case ever since the loss from Brewster he was never beaten unlike Lewis who got ko’d in his prime and relatively inexperienced against mcall then as experienced champion against Rahman and in his last fight against klitchko ….. Sorry those are the facts ….now you will say ” yeah but lewis opponent were tougher ” and even when we agree with you and say yes vitally klitchko is tough you will contradict yourself and say ” no he is not” lol ….man you are in a tough spot with klitchko brothers , you don’t know when to bash them or when to praise them .hahahahahahahahahahahsha!!!!!!Posted August 28, 2014 2:03 am
Tark-“197lb Leon Spinks beat the crap out of Ali”?? When did that happen mate? It was a split decision lost and Ali won the rematch which was unanimous, check your history mate.Posted August 28, 2014 1:29 am
Really i’m smoking crack’ hmmmmm…lets see part time golfer Corrie Sanders stopped in round 2! “do B E A R S” shyt in the woods?? Lol!Posted August 28, 2014 12:06 am
It’s cool laj…just friendly debate. lol!Posted August 27, 2014 11:50 pm
I sound like your wife’ really well you better get a “divorce”…lolPosted August 27, 2014 11:48 pm
Sorry laj, they would have lost, i was around then too no comparison, Ali was too confident and crazy. to much and the fight was already lost. He knew how to get in your head before the actual fight then got you in the ring. plus with the race relations back then klits would’ve had no chance.Posted August 27, 2014 11:47 pm
Anyhow Slim been fun, don’t take offense Ali is still a top 3 ATG great and will still be tomorrow, but the night is getting late and time to stop this bating and spend some time with the dogs. Who could beat the sh-t out of ali and the Bro’s.Posted August 27, 2014 11:40 pm
Ali couldn’t stop china chin Norton, Shavers or Spinks, how the H-ll would he ever stop the Bor’s. Beat them unlikely, but possible, stop them LMFAO.Posted August 27, 2014 11:35 pm
Slim again too much emotion, simmer down. I present facts you emotion. Are you a female, just asking? Sound like my wife.Posted August 27, 2014 11:34 pm
But since I was there and am still alive I can compare.Posted August 27, 2014 11:25 pm
Ukraine, I just got sucked into it, d-mn.Posted August 27, 2014 11:23 pm
I love people’s rose colored glasses go back and watch Ali/Wepner and a number of his other fights and listen to the booing. One of the ugliest unskilled fights I have ever seen. Make Wlad vs Iggy look exciting and action packed. Uggggh!! And clinching, Ali was the all time best.Posted August 27, 2014 11:22 pm
@Tark…First of all your opinion doesn’t mean a dam thing! Klit was stopped by Corrie Sanders but Ali’ couldn’t stop him????????? That’s the biggest JOKE on this side of the Mississippi! Get lost with your hating on Ali! It’s old and you lose credibility every time you make dumb statements like that…Posted August 27, 2014 11:15 pm
Hey laj-if you grew up in the Ali Frazier era and watched those wars as you claim then what the heck are you doing comparing the Klitschko’s to Ali bloat? HaHaHaHa!Posted August 27, 2014 11:10 pm
Slim.., Wladimir would murder Ali. There many more heavyweights today because the world population is twice what it was in the 70’s — and many countries where professional boxing didn’t exist in the 70’s are producing some of the world’s best heavyweights.
There were fewer than 5,000 professional fighters in the mid 70’s.. today there’s about 19,000 ranked on boxrec.
Booper punching 210lb Ken Norton broke Ali’s jaw and beat the crap out of him.
Little tiny 197-pound Leon Spinks with 7 fights beat the crap out of Ali.
Little 5’10” X 205 Joe Frazier beat the crap out of Ali
Wladimir is an offensive machine with a better winning ratio and KO ratio than Ali had… Wladimir never padded his title defense record with horrendous fighters like Alfredo Evangelista, Chuck Wepner, Richard Dunn, Brian London, and Jean Pierre Coopman.
Wladimir had one of the greatest coaches in History in Emmanuel Steward. He had Steward for 10 years. Listen to Steward coach Wladimir against Eddie Chambers 35-1. Wladimir KO’d a guy no other boxer has come close to KOing, knocking him dead with one nifty left hook. Ali was extremely vulnerable to left hooks.
Ali got hit too much.. Wladimir rarely gets hit.. Ali lacked punching power.. Wladimir is one of the hardest punchers ever.Posted August 27, 2014 11:05 pm
Sure, sure and Why wouldn’t he underestimate a 6-0-1 fighter? It is because the competition was so bad that he even got to fight a 6-0-1 fighter. Fact is Brewster, Purrity and Sanders would have all smoked Leon inside of 6 rounds. He had a weak chin and Ali was washed up at barely 36, excuses, excuses, excuses. Name the worse fighter Wlad has fought in the last 10 years and they would have smoked Leon and likely glass jawed Norton. So by your confession Ali’s era wasn’t really so good now was it? Ali is still an ATG, but your arguments are all time weak.Posted August 27, 2014 10:53 pm
Also Wlad will still be undefeated until he is 50! Easy to do with no competition’ lolPosted August 27, 2014 10:47 pm
@laj…Ali underestimated Leon and lost a split decision. NOT STOPPED. They ran it back for a rematch and Leon got his ass whooped. If you want to talk facts…and was when Ali was washed’ up!..Posted August 27, 2014 10:44 pm
Excuse me Slim exactly where do you see me making excuse for Wlad? Rather you and others make excuses for Ali who lost to the worse HVWT champ of all time Leon Spinks. Wlad did not reach his fighting prime until 30-32 years old and is still in it. Big men always mature later, and he didn’t have Angelo Dundee to give him smelling salts and cut his gloves in his early career. Trainers and proper managers can make a world of difference. He had poor trainers in the first part of his career. Wlad was also a champion at 24 years of age. Everything I post is a fact. what you post is hyperbole and emotion. But if you want to be ignorant and a hater be my guest. Also when you and others are making statements like Ali will be remembered longer, statistics like who actually saw a fight do account for how popular a fighter or sport is at the time. If you can’t deal with facts that’s OK, I am sure there are a lot of rocks you can hide your head under.Posted August 27, 2014 10:34 pm
Correction – Pov landed on Charr not WachPosted August 27, 2014 9:46 pm
Ali fought Liston the second time in front of a crowd of < 2000, is that famous? Everything was a free TV back then and there were only three channels, even then could only draw 2000 fans?? Reality check people, take off the rose colored glasses us Americans love to wear.Posted August 27, 2014 9:41 pm
Slim Ali, was a great fighter, but really he fought in an era of cruiserweights, LHW’s and fighters from the USA. He really was not a world champion, and you do not have great competition when you are fighting a very poor fighter that is 6-0-1 and claim the competition was great. Fact Ali fought actual LHW’s (when they weighed 175-180 lbs) and cruiserweights that if Wald had fought he would be blasted all over the place. Do you ever hear of serious discussion of Wlad vs Lebron like we heard Ali vs Wilt. I grew up with Ali, Joe , etc. But everytime I go back and watch the fights they lose more luster. There was never a HVWT in that era that could throw the 6 punch combination that Pov landed on Wach. Ali was greater than boxing in his time because of Vietnam and all the racial tensions. A product of the time that was blown out of proportion by the great Howard Cosell and his silly self proclaimed “Greatest”. Ali had multiple fights against people he already had beaten because of the lack of quality past the top few and he rarely dominated. Doesn’t mean that with all his flaws he wasn’t great, he was, top 3 of all time for sure. Why can’t you admit that Wlad is an ATG and that his comp hasn’t been bums? Statistically any argument of a weak era is dumb, twice as many people in the world and 6X as many countries competing that did not compete in the past. Wlad is just as big a star in Germany as Ali was in the USA.Posted August 27, 2014 9:30 pm
@Slim ; I apologize , I was under the impression that
By the way Sredmond, exactly where do I or anybody say that Brewster and Purrity did not land telling blows, certainly they landed leather. You always take things out of context for your delusional purposes, and don’t face any facts. For instance are you going to deny Wlad’s blood tests showed his sugar level was >3X normal? Elevated sugar levels can lead to confusion, fatigue, and even eventually unconsciousness. Wlad obviously had two of these three symptoms. I am not going as far as to say he was drugged because I don’t know, but to deny the evidence he had something physically wrong with him that night is foolish and something I would expect for a hater like you. I do give Brewster and Purrity credit for having a great beard and stamina, better than Wlad’s for sure. I think Brewster was a good HVWT and slugger with power, but limited boxing skills. Purrity was just a wasted opportunity with a horrible management team, but a decent fighter. He did draw with Morrison and knock him down twice, which is better than Foreman did when Morrison totally dominated him. Alos my hat is off to Sanders who DID beat Wlad’s AZZ. Caught him cold and clean with a beautiful left while Wlad was coming in, smooth, clean and powerful, LL would still be flat on his back from that punch!Posted August 27, 2014 7:28 pm
Sredmond if you are so blind, how are you typing, do you use a braille keyboard, you must if you think Purrity or Brewster beat Walds AZZ? That explains a lot. Did they win, yes, beating someones AZZ is what McCall and Rahman did to LL.Posted August 27, 2014 7:07 pm
T-K-OH! IN SIX!
Tough men don’t crawl around the ring one their hands and knees like a baby, get carried around the ring, again like rockabyebaby or take a chop full of Chisora spit and lap it up, yum yum. Some of the funniest sights I’ve seen in the ring. Jab, grab, lean and if that fails, get big bro in.Posted August 27, 2014 5:31 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! “The Drugs took effect” That’s an odd way to refer to Brewsters fists but I will play along!! Vitali did NOT think that Wlad was drugged post fight because he told his brother to retire after seeing him glazed in the corner looking like a Piano fell on his head… Truth is that Wlad is NOT a very tough man, he is strong and he is hard to beat when he is front running and encounters no adversity, BUT when the going gets rough he has had his keister rammed 3x by underdogs…Brewster deserves all the credit in the world for weathering the storm and turning the tables, he probably watched the Sanders bout and KNEW that if he could get some leather on Klits the Big Man would fall… And he was RIGHT!!Posted August 27, 2014 4:58 pm
Is that you brother Herman.lol.Posted August 27, 2014 3:00 pm
Desperate wiggers still clinging to losses Wlad had 10+ years ago, when he was a kid, I see. Silly wiggers. Do any of these brain dead a-holes believe this version of Wlad loses any of those fights? And he beat up and blinded Brewster in the rematch. The first fight was a fluke. Wlad has fought everyone he has been asked to and never ducked anyone. It isn’t his fault the division hasn’t been strong. Haye and Povetkin were very good, undefeated fighters and Wlad handled them easily. And Pulev, another very good undefeated fighter, will be handled as well. Now the whiny babies cry about wishing they had their overrated racist idol Ali back. The wigs and nigs god Ali was brain damaged by 38 while Wlad continues to dominate. Get over it.Posted August 27, 2014 1:30 pm
@ Slim ; Aside from a undersized German and an Englishnan , who put him down but was robbed , what other international contenders did Ali , the ” undisputed World Champion ” fight , in that era that was so ” much more tougher ” than today ? Whom did he fight that was ;
Klitschko was NOT “drugged” anymore than his opponents are drugged when he knocks them out… AGAIN this is bitterness and lack of acceptance commonly found on these threads..Posted August 27, 2014 9:35 am
Laj, Brewster and Purrity BEAT Wlads AZZ and that is what happened! You Klit Clowns have choices you can either say Wlad is a QUITTER? or you can give his opponents their due for creating situations where he could NOT continue… Acting like Purrity and Brewster did not land any telling blows is a SAD dismissal of reality… They BOTH out toughed Wlad and sent him home early against Brewster he looked utterly pathetic after 6 rounds..Posted August 27, 2014 9:27 am
LOL. Some moron has nothing better to do than imagine a background and failed career for me because I criticized his idol.Posted August 27, 2014 3:34 am
It is true Bentt’s reign was bad, but he didn’t fight long enough to be the worst. Spinks was KO’d 9 times and barely had a 50% win rate, but a case can definitely be made for Bentt.Posted August 26, 2014 11:46 pm
To me… Michael Bentt was a much worse “World Champ” than Leon Spinks.
Bentt knocked out China chinned Tommy Morrison to win it — and almost got killed in his 1st title defense by Herbie Hide, in a ridiculous mismatch.
The Morrison team selected Bentt as a super easy win. In Morrison’s first defense his cherry-picked opponent didn’t show up — so they fought somebody from out of the audience. Bentt was actually Tommy’s 2nd “defense.”Posted August 26, 2014 11:42 pm
where’s your brains? don’t exist? ahh.. explains a lotPosted August 26, 2014 11:20 pm
Also anybody that ever states that Brewster or Purrity beat Wlads a-s and Wlad was rolling around is either a fool, hater, or never even bothered to watch the fight. Also Wlad never, ever quit a fight. He finished every fight on his feet, and never stopped the fight himself. No need to tell these lies about any fighter, hyperbole is useful at times, but at others sounds stupid, childish and hateful for no purpose other than to try and make yourselves feel important. Also the 12 round vs 15 round argument is flawed and dismal exercise in futility. Wlad has only went the distance 7 fights in his career, and he was leading by large margins in all those fights. Against the LHW’s and mainly cruiserweights in the Ali era, do you seriously think he would have been fighting many 15 round fights.Posted August 26, 2014 8:55 pm
correction Leon Spinks was the worst HVWT CHAMPION, not heavyweight.Posted August 26, 2014 8:48 pm
How did we get back into the Ali VS Wlad debate again. Two different eras, so we will never know. there is one big correction however “Bill Patrice” states “Valuev is the worst heavyweight ever. Actually long from it. If he really knew as much as he seems to think he would admit Leon spinks was by far, not even close call the worst heavyweight in history. Unfortunately this is the one real huge stain on Ali’s record as he was only 36 when he fought him. for me Ali is top 3 ATG’s along with Wlad and Joe Louis. I have Louis #1, and will likely always have him there. Wlad’s career is not even over, but statistically and in most other ways he deserves a top 3 ranking. They are and were both great.Posted August 26, 2014 8:47 pm
Right Slim… At least we agree Steward made a massive difference in Wladimir’s technical skill level and defense.
But we can also agree that Wladimir had a longer amateur career with many more amateur fights… and he’s also had more professional fights than Ali had… and he’s in much better shape mentally, physically, financially, and marriage wise if he decided to end his career right now.Posted August 26, 2014 7:24 pm
Well we will never agree so…but Ali fought 15 round fights not 12 round fights. Ali fought tougher battles, with tougher opponents, and also had longer boxing career starting at 12 yrs old. Gold medalist, etc…Steward definitely would have helped his defense. We can agree on that!Posted August 26, 2014 6:58 pm
Doesn’t matter… Ali’s quality of life was still horrible… because his defense had so many holes in it.
He didn’t have Emmanuel Steward.Posted August 26, 2014 6:48 pm
No that’s Bullshyt! Maybe physical shape but not financial shape. Ali sold his likeness for $70M a few years ago…Frazier was broke not “Ali”..Posted August 26, 2014 6:45 pm
Slim, “Marcos is 3-1 with Garcia”
Right… But he’s no Mikey Garcia… He has a long way to go… Gets hit with everything – and his footwork and weaponry need a lot of work.Posted August 26, 2014 6:45 pm
The last 3 dominant heavyweight Champions: Lewis, Klitschko, and Klitschko… will finish in much better financial shape… physical shape… and brain-health shape… than Ali or Frazier.
That’s what you want to see.Posted August 26, 2014 6:42 pm
Tark-That was not me talking about Ali’s weight…Marcos is 3-1 with Garcia! Losing only to Floyd, and it was close enough to get a “rematch”…but Garcia is not on Emanuel Steward level..Posted August 26, 2014 6:41 pm
But Ali put on 9 pounds from Mildenberger to his next fight Williams… Williams was a human wreck because of a gunshot to the liver… so Ali could afford to be fat.Posted August 26, 2014 6:37 pm
Sredmond you are irrelevant for boxing world history , you can say all you want wlad will only be a footnote in the future …. The reality is diferent , just because your boy Mitchell turn out to be a c level hw for today’s standard haveyweight devision ,history won’t change because of that , sorry …..
Slim says.., “He is claiming Ali was fat against Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams.”
He wasn’t as fat as Frazier… He weighed 201 for his Cooper defense and 203 for his Mildenberger defense.
He was only 10 pounds more for Williams and 3-5 more for Liston II when he weighed 206.Posted August 26, 2014 6:33 pm
Propaganda says.., “Actually saying you have to judge a fighter on his entire record means someone like Matthew Saad Muhammed , Sugar Ray Robinson , JC Chavez, Benny Leonard , Roberto Duran , Bob Foster , Jerry Quarry and so many of histories great fighters get judged on what they did as broke has beens?”
You embark on a boxing career to make your life better… not worse.Posted August 26, 2014 6:30 pm
GDay Slim , guys like Tark and his alt nicks – fan bois deal in spin and opinion not logic. Read how TARK responds to my posts . He continually ignores any point of view or statement that he cant argue logically against and instead types a bunch of irrelevant nonsense based on opinion disguised as fact . He is claiming Ali was fat against Sonny Liston and Cleveland Williams .Posted August 26, 2014 6:28 pm
SLIM… Garcia wasn’t on the same level as Steward.
That’s why Maidana is still losing fights.Posted August 26, 2014 6:27 pm
But Tark talks shyt about Maidana 3 loses before he was with Garcia! Hmmmmm….there’s that Tark spin again fellas! lolPosted August 26, 2014 6:25 pm
Actually saying you have to judge a fighter on his entire record means someone like Matthew Saad Muhammed , Sugar Ray Robinson , JC Chavez, Benny Leonard , Roberto Duran , Bob Foster , Jerry Quarry and so many of histories great fighters get judged on what they did as broke has beens ?Posted August 26, 2014 6:24 pm
Propaganda “So you are claiming that Ali was fat in the fights against Liston and Williams are you Tark?”
What was his weight for his title defenses against Mildenberger and Cooper??? 203 and 201.
He wasn’t very fat in those fights.Posted August 26, 2014 6:23 pm
Gee-“good glue” your sniffing! Spinks won a split decision against Ali. They ran it back for the rematch and Spinks got his ass whooped! You wanna talk facts…Posted August 26, 2014 6:23 pm
TARK thats the rub man, its your OPINION Larry would have beaten Joe. Its FACT that Joe put Holmes in hospital .
AnPosted August 26, 2014 6:22 pm
Wladimir had enormus flaws in his game until he got Emmanuel Steward… After 3 years with Steward Wladimir was damned near unhittable.Posted August 26, 2014 6:21 pm
So you are claiming that Ali was fat in the fights against Liston and Williams are you Tark?
Thats silly and hilarious.
As for Louis vs Walcott , its typical of you to ignore the entire gist of my posts n concentrate on what you believe is a factual error even though its irrelevant.
Everyone including Ruby Goldstein thought Walcott won .Posted August 26, 2014 6:20 pm
clay wasn’t a heavyweight. he is a natural light hitting cruiser. lost to featherfisted bums like spinks and frazier. got tons of gifted decisions and struggled against no name opponents. gimme a brake. today clay would be sucking every eastern superheavyweight dkPosted August 26, 2014 6:20 pm
Homles would have beaten the crap out of Frazier if they fought… Frazier’s son even did better against Joe Bugner when Marvis had only 9 fights.
Marvis’s next fight was against Larry Holmes… He suffered a 1st round KO at the hands of Holmes.
Larry would have done Joe in the same manner.Posted August 26, 2014 6:19 pm
You have to judge a boxer by his whole career… Wins and losses… That’s ITPosted August 26, 2014 6:16 pm
Larry Holmes looked absolutely terrified before and during the Tyson fight.
Holmes was lucky enough to never fight a gun swarmer until he faced Mike.
Frazier would have kicked Holmes ass as well , he did in sparring. Larry was hospitalised after sparring with Joe.
Like all boxer-movers Larry prefered to fight slow stalker types.
I believe Holmes would have beaten Foreman but lost to Frazier . Unlike Ali Larry didnt handle being attacked to the body very well .Posted August 26, 2014 6:15 pm
Louis never lost to Walcott… AGAIN check your facts.Posted August 26, 2014 6:15 pm
Propaganda… I don’t GAF what Ali weighed when he was FAT!!!
He weighed 203 for Mildenberger and 201 for the Cooper rematch… Mildenberger was just previous to Williams… and Cooper was 2 fights before that.
He was in good shape for those fights.. Not much fat.Posted August 26, 2014 6:13 pm
Using Tarks logic Joe Louis should be savaged for losing as an old man to Charles , Walcott and Marciano.
Holmes should be attacked for his feeble effort as an old man vs Tyson.
Vitali K should be crucified for his awful fight against Chisora .
Archie Moore should be bashed for his non effort against Ali-Clay.
Roy Jones should be rated on his career post Ruiz according to TARK logic.Posted August 26, 2014 6:12 pm
This TARK guy is hilarious , he cant tell the difference between opinion and fact . Its FACT that Holmes weighed 209 vs Norton at 29 years of age . Its “spin and or opnion “that Holmes overtrained.
Its FACT that Wlad was destroyed by Brewster and left rolling around the canvas like a concussed seal.
Its “OPINION “that Wlad was drugged .
You would never make a lawyer TARK.Posted August 26, 2014 6:09 pm
Tark you can spin n squirm away mate . Ali weighed 210 vs Liston , 212 vs Williams . Holmes weighed 209 vs Norton . On tale of the tape Ali has larger calves, thigh, ankle and chest measurements than Holmes . You sir are a liar.Posted August 26, 2014 6:07 pm
It doesn’t matter of Wlad hasn’t retired… He’s 38, and still kicking ass at an age where Ali was damned near brain-dead.Posted August 26, 2014 6:04 pm
Propaganda.., The only joke is you. You’re an idiot who doesn’t check facts.Posted August 26, 2014 6:03 pm
Actually Tark , Wlad hasnt retired yet so as usual your point is moot , if not ludicrous lmao . Youre hilarious mate . A genuine comic talent :)Posted August 26, 2014 6:02 pm
You’re a damned LIAR propaganda…
In the fight before Williams, Ali weighed 203… Two fights before that he weighed 201.Posted August 26, 2014 6:01 pm
I love the way Tark says Valuev was “a world heavyweight champion “. Actually he was just an oversized bum with a padded record who was considered a joke.
In the old days there was “the world heavyweight champion “. Note the singularity Tark ;)Posted August 26, 2014 6:00 pm
Propaganda says.., “Ali had a fighting record of 55 – 2 better than Wlad on percentages and unlike Wlad Ali had NEVER been stopped) at Heavyweight prior to the first Leon Spinks fight … Ali won the worlds undisputed heavyweight title in one of the greatest upsets in history , defeating the menacing 8-1 betting favourite Sonny Liston.
Ali was 56-5 at the end. That’s what counts.
You’re conveniently cutting off Ali’s losses to 6-0-1 neophyte Leon Spinks, his sparring partner Holmes, and a guy Mike Tyson destroyed in only 2 rounds at age 20, Trevor Berbick.
Ali had help aginst Liston… Liston suffered a badly torn left biceps and had to retire with the fight even.
Ali should have been DQ’d in the Liston rematch… He defied numerous orders by referee Walcott to go to a neutral corner following the knockdown…
Liston never got a count.. and the fight resumed without Walcott even counting “1” over Sonny… Liston was on his feet as Walcott was still struggling to push Ali to a neutral corner… The rule is to suspend the count if a boxer doesnt go to a neutral corner… Walcott and the commission messed up big time and made Liston the fall guy.Posted August 26, 2014 6:00 pm
Youre a liar and a spin doctor Tark .
Ali weighed 212 vs Williams and 210 when he was 22 in the first Liston fight. He was measured at 6 ft 2 and a half inches tall with an 80 inch reach.
Holmes was 29 when he faced Norton , he was in the best shape of his life and weighed 209. Larrys reach was measured at 80 inches.
Now run along with your lies , spin and propaganda Tark.Posted August 26, 2014 5:57 pm
With the competition in the “Heavy Weight” division these days Klit will stay fresh and huggin until he’s 50 plus years old! And the way Tark defends theses European fighters and disses the US fighters it’s more than obvious he’s not from here, and was not around when those guys were fighting. Have a nice day!Posted August 26, 2014 5:54 pm
Im an Aussie Tark , Alex Leapai anyone ?
He is without doubt the worst fighter I have ever seen fight for the title . He has no skills at all , no fitness base and isnt very tough. Compare him to hardened guys like say Chuvalo or Bonavena.
Since 2009 Wlads challengers have been appalling. Francesco Pianetta , Mormeck , Leapai .Posted August 26, 2014 5:49 pm
Prapaganda says.., “Ali weighed 212 vs Cleveland Williams. Most tale of the tape measurements done on Ali cliam he had an 80 inch reach. Holmes was actually a slightly skinnier guy than Ali when they were prime”
For the fight before Williams Ali weighed 203.. Two fights before that he weighed 201.
Ali was a fat cruiserweight. Larry Holmes was naturally bigger, taller, and rangier. A half inch taller, a couple inches in reach … and a little bigger through the shoulders.
Holmes was very skinny for Norton… That was about as light as he got. He was distracted from eating because of intensive therapy on his torn left biceps in his final week of training.Posted August 26, 2014 5:45 pm
Yeah… To Sredmond no modern heavyweight is good…
But if you were around in the 1970’s, and came into the ring fat and jiggling like a bowl of Jello… like Frazier… and you fight teeny little bums like Marion Conner, Dave Zyglwitz and Terry Daniels… you get an automatic pass.Posted August 26, 2014 5:38 pm
The bs posted on this site is hilarious . Adrian claims Larry Holmes is bigger than Ali. The 29 year old Holmes weighed 209 pounds vs Ken Norton . Ali weighed 212 vs Cleveland Williams. Most tale of the tape measurements done on Ali cliam he had an 80 inch reach. Holmes was actually a slightly skinnier guy than Ali when they were prime . Larry was half an inch taller with skinnier thighs n calves than Ali .
Wlad Klitschko will never be the worlds most famous sportsman unlike Ali. Deal with it ….Posted August 26, 2014 5:33 pm
That’s not the way I look at it… Haye fought a massive giant, in hostile territory, facing hostile judges and a hostile referee, and won the World Heavyweight Championship.
George Foreman faced a man who had been beaten down by 5’10” X 205 Joe Frazier, and he was in miserable physical condition. Had he been as prepared as he was for the first Frazier fight, he could have thrown those bombs for 15 rounds.
Norton got bombed out 4 X … once by a 188-pound rail who had 12 wins.
Frazier jiggled like a tub of jello for his 2 Foreman fights. He was disgracefully FAT!!
Ali was in miserable condition for several of his fights.
David Haye trains like a maniac for ALL his fights… Nobody ever trained harder — unless it’s Klitschko for this Pulev fight… They don’t leave any stone unturned in their preparation – and that’s the difference with the top modern heavyweights. They don’t slack offPosted August 26, 2014 5:04 pm
Tark, so basically you are saying that Valuev was GREAT because he dwarfed Haye? Valuev is NOT a respected HW Champion he was just really BIG… Its sad that you wanna sell Haye based on Valuev….Haye has a strong resume at Cruiserweight, at HW he is not gonna be a big deal… He FLOPPED when the opportunity came to fight for the real HW Championship… He might have done more with his career but it did NOT happen… Valuev? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!Posted August 26, 2014 4:47 pm
“Who is David Hayes best win at HW?”
Obviously when he was outweighed by 117lb and gave up 9″ of height versus Valuev, a World Heavyweight Champion with a 50-1 record.Posted August 26, 2014 4:39 pm
Sorry Tark, David Hayes injuries and his inactivity cannot buy him higher historical standing… Who is David Hayes best win at HW? Dereck Chisora? a guy who never rose above Challenger status? I know you are desperate to build up the ERA but Haye is the wrong avenue despite his talent he did not have the overall picture to execute your vision… I am sorry but these are facts…Posted August 26, 2014 4:13 pm
Yeah Tark your standards that you judge by simply wax and wane with the fighter you are basically full of SH*T… One minute guys resumes matter, another they don’t, David Haye has your stamp of approval but Floyd Mayweather does not… Cotto is an ATG, but he is a riskless fight for Mayweather, Canelo was a good fight before Mayweather….3 losses by Maidana is terrible but Rubio is a good test for GGG with 6 after getting stopped 3x… SNOOOORRREEEEEE bottomline is you like Hayes Cornrows so suddenly he is a special HW, NO HE IS NOT… He is NOT even a Top 30 guy based on what he did at the weight GTFOH….Posted August 26, 2014 4:05 pm
Tark, Cotto does NOT have to beat Lara because as of now Lara is a guy that is just floating around without a big accomplishment to his name… He is very good but he did NOT pull a Rigondeax and beat a fighter like Donaire beyond question… We all know YOUR position but that does NOT matter!! Where is Lara now and who is talking about him??? No one is gonna say in 40 years “Cotto did not beat Lara” LMAO!!! David Haye is NEVER EVER gonna be mentioned in the same breath as Ali and when YOU die it will officially cease such nonsense talk..Posted August 26, 2014 3:57 pm
Try as much as you want Tark, David Haye is forgettable HW he simply did NOT do anything of note beyond beating some scrubs at the weight Barrett, Old Ruiz, Harrison, and Valuev for the belt…. Whats his best win? Dereck Chisora? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Biggest HOLE in Hayes game is that he got a shot at the title and fought NOT to get KOed and did not fight to win…Posted August 26, 2014 3:40 pm
Sredmond.., Frazier, Foreman, Norton, and Ali all had more holes in their games than David Haye. Often legend and hype takes a athlete far beyond what his actual abilities are.
Miguel Cotto was a guy who was in the right place at the right time. He couldn’t beat Austin Trout or Erislandy Lara to save his life – but he was presented with opportunities to win titles at 4 different weights – and fought guys who happened to be extremely vulnerable to defeat, by a combination of age, injuries, sliding careers, and other factors.
I try to look past that and see what an athlete’s abilities are beyond the hype – and the mere accident that they were born somewhere else than America – and a lot of business forces, money, and savvy were arrayed against their success.
Also often circumstances intervene… Haye suffered enough injuries for 5 careers.Posted August 26, 2014 3:35 pm
BTW, Izababy must be DEVASTATED! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!Posted August 26, 2014 3:19 pm
Ali is a legend and that is NEVER EVER going to change!!! the pointless attacks of jealous fools like Bears and Tark cannot stamp out the magnitude of his accomplishments and Global acclaim… Wlad is a very strong Champion during this trainwreck era, he is a nice man and his lady is a sweet piece of trem by the looks of her…But he is a regional phenom who is bankable in Germany… Ali was a GLOBAL icon before the internet, cellphones, cable TV, Social Media and all the rest….Tarks pathetic attempts to sell Ali losing as a washed up OLD fighter against an ATG, as worse on similar to Wlad getting bushwhacked as a prime fighter simply do not fly… Holmes gets credit for beating Ali’s shell and even he knew that…Posted August 26, 2014 3:17 pm
Tark, Valuev is NOT well regarded as a HW Champ he was JUST BIG and that’s it… Many thought the shell of Evander Holyfield defeated him!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Valuev???? again Haye’s reputation took a hit after his performance against Wlad and discussions of his Toe… Even your fellow Sodomite Bears made fun of Haye who I consider a very good but largely squandered talent…Posted August 26, 2014 3:07 pm
Sorry Tark, NO ONE is going to remember Dereck Chisora he is a B fighter at best… Tough guy but he cannot really hit and he has lost before his legacy over less than 20 fights is NOT that of Ike Ibeabuchi and few remember him unless you are hardcore… David Haye squandered his potential after a certain point he fought AWFULLY against Wlad and has been too inactive to really carve out a name.. Its OVERPosted August 26, 2014 3:05 pm
Tark, David Haye is a very good fighter but he will largely be remembered for squandering a lot of his potential he is NOT gonna be seen as anything crazy at HW… I know that you think he is going to be seen as Greater or more prominent at the weight than Muhammad Ali but this is simply impossible! Wlad will not be seen as such and certainly not his brother with his rancid resume and 4 rounds won off of Lewis… Sorry Kid!Posted August 26, 2014 3:03 pm
Sredmond says.., “Haye has no legacy of note at HW”
Haye was a 2-Division World Champion, who in his last fight dominated and crushed a very tough contender who went the distance with everyone else.
Haye beat a 7’X 335 Heavyweight Champion who had a 50-1 record. He defended his title versus guys who were better than Dave Zyglewitz, Terry Daniels, Ron Stander, and Manuel Ramos.
To you, heavyweight champs can only have a legacy if they’re Americans.Posted August 26, 2014 3:02 pm
David toe haye would not of got a job washing socks back in the day.Posted August 26, 2014 2:53 pm
Bill Patrice Jones says.., “George Groves doesn’t know how to box and is hopelessly lacking in the skill department. Yet the heavyweight he modeled his style on David Haye”
Groves lacks the mental and physical resources to copy David Haye’s style
Like you lack the mental and physical talent to copy LeBron’s stellar moves.
Groves is wide open, has no footwork, doesn’t possess a great deal of raw ring intelligence – and would never make a David Haye in a million years.Posted August 26, 2014 2:53 pm
Tark, Ali was an OLD man when he was stopped coming off a 2 year layoff everyone knows this… Wlad was getting destroyed by BUMS, GOLFERS and B fighters in his PRIME an he has NEVER beaten a historically important boxer with HOF credentials… Who is his best win? Chris Byrd? David Haye??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Both those guys were Cruisers and Haye has no legacy of note at HW..Posted August 26, 2014 2:52 pm
Ali is simply the GREATER fighter in stronger eras Wlad would have run the risk of being destroyed before he could have figured out how to clinch from 7 different angles… The man was stopped 3x by nobodies in his first 45 fights which is an average of once every 15 bouts…. Sheeshhhh!!! Were he in with a consistent parade of high quality fighters he might have been retired long ago… Ali was tough as nails and he was able to finish all but one of his contests against BETTER competition that Klits…Posted August 26, 2014 2:49 pm
Sredmond LIES.., “Only against Sam Peter did WK refuse to stay down or succumb to the pressure that was being brought… Ali fought with a broken jaw”
Ali fought with a broken jaw—and lost to a blooper punching China-chin…
Ali fought fat—and lost to a 6-0-1 neophyte…
Ali fought stupid—and lost to a 5’10” X 205 no defense left hooker…
Ali fought overmatched—and embarrassed himself, and quit, vs a TRUE ATG
Ali suffered more losses than Wladimir in fewer fights. Wladimir would beat the above 4 fighters who beat Ali, because he works so hard to perfect his craft, even at 38.
Ali was lazy. He wasn’t as dedicated to perfection as Wlad.
Holmes would give Wladimir the most trouble of any heavyweight not named Klitschko — but WK’s size, strength, and speed would beat Larry down across 15 rounds.
Wladimir spars with up to 8 guys going 16 hard rounds. Crazy – but he wants to stay on top at 38 vs Pulev. He’s trying to work harder than anyone else would.Posted August 26, 2014 2:42 pm
Most Wladdy fan boys on here are probably no older then 21. lol.Posted August 26, 2014 2:37 pm
Wlad is showing signs of true fear against Pulev. Why not do like Vitali and fight like a one handed warrior. I don’t think he is hurt, I believe he is part of the Briggs caught on camera hype and wants to fight him instead.Posted August 26, 2014 2:19 pm
It’s an injury. It happens. The fight will go ahead, just delayed. Disappointing but… Save the conspiracy delusions for “who shot JFK” etc. And maybe, given a conclusion to Ali vs Wlad simply isn’t possible, maybe you should look to find something more worthwhile to do with your limited time on earth?Posted August 26, 2014 2:08 pm
Ali was a guy who had something that Wlad does NOT possess to any sort of special extent and that is HEART and TOUGHNESS… Of the 4x that Klits was in bad trouble he folded 3x…. Only against Sam Peter did he refuse to stay down or succumb to the pressure that was being brought… Ali fought with a broken jaw, he fought half blind and he endured hard punishment from the likes of one of the GREATEST HW punchers ever (Foreman)….. Klitschko NEVER booked a win against a 90’s great or even got in position for Lewis because he was getting beat up with frightening regularity at that time (2 TKOs in 5 fights Sanders and Brewster) Ali did not get stopped until he was an OLD man and the guy who did it is an ATG HW in his own right (Holmes)…. Guys can try and sell Wach, Lepai, Pianeta and Mormeck as tough as nails opposition but that does not fly… Ali was standing tough during the 15 round era, earlier in his career Wlad would have likely been OUT of boxing if he had to bang that extra 3 rounds during long fights…Posted August 26, 2014 12:08 pm
The only way to create a compelling fight for Wlad is sadly reduced to FANTASY… ie Wlad vs a 95 year old Ali!!! FACT is that Ali’s legend is solidified there is NOTHING Wlad can do to upend his status as one of the best to ever to it in the division… In the year 3055 if HW’s are routinely 7″5 and weight 340, Ali will STILL be famous and etched in the history books… Reality is that Klits has dominated his anemic era and as the parade of manufactured threats is continually rolled out his legacy will be diluted with guys that simply don’t rate… Pulev has a solid name in recent history and an impressive win would have been nice.. Absent excessive leaning and clinching if at all possible for Big Wlad… BUT the bout will have to wait and life goes onPosted August 26, 2014 12:00 pm
Bill Patrice Jones
No way does Klitschko duck Pulev, because Pulev isn’t going ANYWHERE! Wladimir needs and wants to get rid of him. It’s a tough mandatory and not a fight I think Wladimir is all too keen on. This is a hard fight to win and look good in. In my humble opinion there are only two things Wladimir can do before retirement to really boost his legacy. He can win the WBC belt and possess all four. And he can have one last big HBO fight in America and solidify his image for North American audiences as one of, if not the, most dominant heavyweight champion in historyPosted August 26, 2014 11:55 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Whether Muhammad Ali would have beaten Wladimir Klitschko is really a meaningless debate. The size and weight differential is too vast to be able to assess it reasonably. Wladimir is a super heavyweight, Muhammad Ali is a lightish heavyweight. David Haye was the small man in this modern era, and he was just as big if not heavier than Ali was for much of his title run before the layoff. I think the fact that Ali, at such a monstrous size and weight disadvantage still has a realistic chance of giving Klitschko a really hard fight, or maybe even winning, pretty much seals the deal as regard to who for their era and their size was a superior fighter. Nobody ever moved like Ali before he came along. Nobody ever had foot and hand speed like that. The fact is Ali was a 7-1 underdog against Liston and he royally dominated and beat him up. Ali was tough, Ali had a chin and Ali was not a ‘light’ or ‘featherfisted’ puncher. If Eddie Chambers takes Wladimir the distance I think, barring some outrageous recklessness on his part, Ali most certainly goes the full 12 at least. Ali would also be able to remain mobile and active in terms of punch stats for 12 rounds. Don’t sell me this BS that modern heavyweights are all so much fitter and more athletic when you routinely see top tier fighters pushing their punches after 3 rounds of a 12 round fight. Ali had stamina and could pace himself. Would Ali beat Wladimir prime for prime? Hard to say. Was Ali a more talented fighter all round? Yes. Did he accomplish more? Yes. Did he box in a tougher era? Yes. Did he have more worldwide global impact with boxing? Yes.Posted August 26, 2014 11:51 am
Did anyone notice , what sort of ” fans ” and media
i don’t think wlad is in a position to face briggs over pulev. if he does he will be a bigger ducker than fury. impossible.Posted August 26, 2014 11:15 am
Wlad Is Chumpion
Wlad is not injured. He is simply trying to bypass Pulev to set up a bout with big Briggs. If they can work out the contract it will be Wlad/Briggs in November.Posted August 26, 2014 11:08 am
ali vs wlad both at their peak. Comes down to who can dictate the jab. Both men like to dominate with the jab on the outside, both like distance. Wlad 3 inches taller, same arm length. Wlad has fast hands and feet, ali even faster. Neither man goes to the body. Wlad is much stronger and hits much harder. Wlad needs to set up a power punch by first using the jab but does also have a sneaky hook. Ali is more unconventional and can throw a power punch at will. Does ali have the speed and skill to take away wlads jab. I think so, at least for a will. 2 outcomes FIRST ali does what noone yet has done, takes wlads jab away makes him look awkward robotic and keeps beating wlad to the punch and wins in a boring fencing match where wlad cannot catch him or press him. SECOND ali looks good for several round gets caught and gets KTFO by a bigger, stronger more powerful man who has great athleticism and skill. Most probable outcome kind off 50/50. Wlad has the advantage if ali does not prepare with modern heavyweights.Posted August 26, 2014 11:02 am
BO BO OLSON, Please keep posing your comments. I find them enlightening and refreshing.Posted August 26, 2014 8:32 am
Bo bo Olson Ali ‘s reach actually was
@Bill Patrice jones , I agree with your views about haye completely . You mention Dundee , yeah I remembered his prediction when he said haye will ko wlad in 1 st round because wlad is a joke and he fought no one good as haye before … HuhPosted August 26, 2014 6:09 am
Bo Bo Olson
Holms and Ali same then big/huge 6’3″. But Ali had a huge reach of 81-2 inches, a tad longer than the long armed Liston. Don’t remember Holms reach. Classic jab vs low jab. In both fights.Posted August 26, 2014 6:09 am
I personally think Lary Holmes would have beaten Ali anytime but it dosent mean that Holmes would have done well with some hw Ali did for example Forman , Forman would have been tough for Holmes but overall I rate higher Holmes then Ali , Holmes was a bigger version of Ali !Posted August 26, 2014 5:50 am
Bill Patrice Jones
@Tark. Apparently George Groves doesn’t know how to box and is hopelessly lacking in the skill department. Yet the heavyweight he modeled his style on David Haye is a top 5 ATG heavyweight whose a ‘masterful’ boxer?? David Haye is a phenomenal ‘fighter’ a truly talented and gifted athlete with briliant explosiveness. But he’s not masterful and his exploits at heavyweight when judged fairly and non biased don’t stack up well. He badly underperformed as a heavyweight. 1./ Round 1 over Bonin virtually meaningless 2./ A messy scrappy TKO win over a vastly faded Barrett, sure he looked powerful but he wasn’t organised or clinical. 3./ I don’t rate his win over Valuev as a tactical masterclass because Valuev is the worst titlist in heavyweight history. He got cleanly beaten by a 45 year old brain damaged non liscensed Holyfield. Cleanly beaten by an old Ruiz and Ruslan Chagaev. When the top trainers were asked to assess Haye’s chances in that fight; Roach, Steward, Dundee and Fritz Sudnek all predicted a dominating Haye KO or very wide points win. Haye squeaked past potshotting like each punch cost him 5,000. 4./ Haye struggled and was pressurised against an old Ruiz. Yes he stopped him being only the second man to do so, but Haye didn’t look like a dominant champion that night. 5./ Harrison doesn’t count. 6./ He underperformed and was intimidated and outsped by Klitschko. Once his game plan A didn’t work he had nothing to do thereafter. Klitschko dominates lots of his opponents but Haye was meant to be special enough not to be dominated and he was messy and disorganised and off balance all night. Very arrogant beforehand and it showed. 7./ Knocked out Chisora in an entertaining brawl, but Chisora is European level at best. Chisora loses everytime he steps up. So Haye was a fantastic cruiserweight but he as of yet has not accomplished anything all too impressive at heavyweight. He’s gone down, not up, in my estimations since he was an active heavyweight.Posted August 26, 2014 4:42 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Larry Holmes would have been a very hard fight for Ali at any point in his career, but there’s so much delusion about how Holmes would have fared based off of their sparring sessions and the eventual fight they had. Holmes really bought into the idea that he was superior to Ali because he often got the better of him in sparring, when in reality many subpar opponents for the better of Ali in sparring. He never gave anything remotely resembling his best in sparring. He didn’t believe in hard sparring and was very accommodating to his spar partners and liked feeding their egos for their own undercard fights. Holmes openly said of Ali that ‘if you were a step slower then him he would beat you up.’ Well a prime Muhammad Ali WAS a step or two quicker than Larry Holmes. The common opponents they share as Ali is fading and Holmes is peak is also revealing of whether or not Holmes would have beaten a prime and healthy Ali.Posted August 26, 2014 4:31 am
SREDMOND displaying the classic bias of thinking that 300 million Americans are more important than 750 million Europeans.
The Klitschko brothers are NOT footnotes you Yank-centric fool.
You equate everything to how well something sells PPV to an American audience, or plays to self-serving American boxing press.
Maybe if you got more than two weeks holiday per year you would be able to visit things called “other countries” and that might broaden your Gary Coleman sized mind.
Posted August 25, 2014 6:35 pm ”
Lmao ! Sad but true !Posted August 26, 2014 3:11 am
And I haven’t seen Ali get elected mayor of Louisville KY.Posted August 26, 2014 1:57 am
“clay was shot by 36, that was with a 3 yr layoff.”
Vitali was good-to-go until 42 – that was with a 4 yr layoff.Posted August 26, 2014 1:55 am
Yeah your right B E A R S, Tark isn’t a racist btch! YOU ARE!!!! LOL!!!!Posted August 26, 2014 1:15 am
Correction Frazier was 5-2.Posted August 26, 2014 12:51 am
So Roids you must be a real brave keyboard warrior sitting behind his keyboard saying people are quitters and have no heart while they get in the ring with the best knowing they could be severely hurt or beaten. Love these keyboard losers that call fighters cowards.Posted August 26, 2014 12:47 am
yea Roids and Frazier was 5-3 same as Foreman at 5-3, Liston 2-2 and Norton 0-2 and so what is your point again?Posted August 26, 2014 12:44 am
Guys who jab a lot for range and speed do have a tendency to tear their left biceps. They jab with lightning speed and retract the punch like a rubber band. It puts great stress and strain on their left biceps if they have an orthodox stance.
It happened to Sonny Liston during his first Cassius Clay fight. He couldn’t retract the arm in the 6th round. He quit because Clay pounded him that round.
It was a really bad tear. The commission thought Sonny was faking it. They brought in 7 different doctors to try to find somebody who would say Liston wasn’t badly injured. They all said it was a very bad muscle tear.
It happened to Larry Holmes a few days before the Norton fight during sparring.. He was afraid to cancel or postpone the fight because he’d been waiting several years for a title shot.. He got intensive physical therapy on the arm for a few days.
The arm held up to a degree for 6 rounds.. After that Holmes couldn’t jab sharply and started pawing and throwing rights, and brawling with Norton.. It changed the whole character of the fight.. They brawled through the whole 15th round when the arm was pretty damned shot. Holmes wasn’t a swinger but he had no choice. You can look at his left biceps today and still see the tear.Posted August 26, 2014 12:40 am
ROIDS N AGE
Masterful David Haye hahaha.
Is this the same guy I have seen who has bad balance , cant throw a double jab , who relys on his athleticism and has bad technique?
Haye makes Roy Jones look like an orthodox fighter. This TARK guy is insane.Posted August 26, 2014 12:35 am
ROIDS N AGE
Vitali is a quitter and Wlad is a guy with no heart and a weak chin . He was stopped by a golfer , a club fighter and Lamont Brewster .
Dont let facts get in the way of your opinions .Posted August 26, 2014 12:33 am
ROIDS N AGE
Haye has a record of 5-1 at Heavyweight . Chisora is a bum . WTF ? Who is this TARK guy?Posted August 26, 2014 12:31 am
ROIDS N AGE
Is Bears a KKK man ? Why does he refer to Muhammad Ali as ” Clay ” ?
Does he refer to Marciano as ” Rocco Marchegiano ” ?
An aging Ken Norton gave a prime Holmes as much trouble as he did Ali by the way.
Holmes was counted out against Tyson. Ali was never counted out.Posted August 26, 2014 12:29 am
ROIDS N AGE
A torn biceps ligament is a classic sign of steroid use – see Shannon Briggs – Andre BertoPosted August 26, 2014 12:26 am
Wlad reportedly tore his biceps while sparring. I told y’all he was overdoing it with 15 sparring partners. When dudes have that many it’s more intense the longer the sparring sessions last, because Wlad was going against a series of guys who were fresh. Injuries often happen when you’re tired but trying to go full out.Posted August 25, 2014 11:23 pm
hope to see wlad/pulev when it happens.Posted August 25, 2014 10:11 pm
clay was shot by 36, that was with a 3 yr layoff.Posted August 25, 2014 10:11 pm
Vlad seems like a decent guy, and this is obviously a set back for an eagerly anticipated fight, in a lackluster division that after many such setbacks desperately needs a shot in the arm to revitalise it.
But, I have to admit that Vladimir Klitchkp is fighting in a weak division and has been since Lennox Lewis retired.
A fighters accomplishments can only really be judged on his respective era and although Wlad has an exemplar record he has never fought against another great fighter.Posted August 25, 2014 9:32 pm
brza da originator
Cmon really r we bashing ali now . WtfPosted August 25, 2014 9:26 pm
Jesus H. Christ people. It’s an injury. It happens. Conspiracy theories are just so much smoke. Oh, and Ali vs Wlad ain’t gonna happen so get a grip. Such comparisons are the speculation of the small minded. Get a fekkin grip on reality!Posted August 25, 2014 9:18 pm
c’est la vie
It is a shame when a fighter spends so much time and effort getting into peak condition and then his opponent gets injured – but then it’s even worse when you’re the one who gets injured, but c’est la vie, it happens.Posted August 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Tark, the biggest racist on this page calling someone racist is this weeks joke.Posted August 25, 2014 9:10 pm
Heavyweight division has a jinx or something gawd. Seems like all the big names are fighting each other in most of the divisions until you get to the super middleweight s. After that it’s duck or injury central.Posted August 25, 2014 8:59 pm
If the tear was in his right bicep he coulda proceeded with the fightPosted August 25, 2014 8:51 pm
@ T22.., “Tark it also didn’t help that Ali let people hit him hard in the head in exhibition fights. I think he had around 117 such exhibitions and remember on a few occasions allowing men free shots to the head and clowning around. Very silly thing to do.”
I don’t know about Ali letting people hit him in the head.. But Ali had a lousy defense.. Anybody who lies on the ropes and tries to hide behind his gloves is not a high quality defender.. That’s not how you do it.. You WILL get ripped by skilled punchers.
You didn’t see David Haye lay on the ropes in his Chisora fight.. He gave ground steadily against a much bigger guy, but maneuvered expertly to stay off the ropes.
You saw how George Groves couldn’t navigate the ring space.. Froch cut him off easily, and started beating the crap out of him.. If you can’t maneuver around a good fighter who can hit, you’re going to get driven to the ropes and knocked out when you finally face one.
That’s the difference between Andre Ward and George Groves.. Also Haye and Ali..
Norton cut Ali off real good, but lacked the skills, power, and game plan to finish Ali off.. Holmes would have beaten Ali any time.. Frazier lacked size, strength, and a jab.. Foreman lacked defense and conditioning—which the Jimmy Young fight also exposed.Posted August 25, 2014 8:24 pm
If u dont lyk my comment, F U!!!
Whats new? The Heavyweight Division, previously known as the Glamour Division of boxing, is now turning out to be the Postponement Division…Posted August 25, 2014 7:19 pm
Tark it also didn’t help that Ali let people hit him hard in the head in exhibition fights. I think he had around 117 such exhibitions and remember on a few occasions allowing men free shots to the head and clowning around. Very silly thing to do. Still no denying he drew the crowds though.Posted August 25, 2014 6:55 pm
Sredmond waxes.., “GREAT and memorable bouts and a career that has left Ali as the most famous boxer in history… Wlad has dominate this terrible ERA of HW and for that my hat is off but he will be a bit of a historical footnote in years to come.”
That is largely fantasy…
Ali’s career left him a physical and mental wreck—that’s how skillful he was.
Ali’s power was lacking… His defense was lacking… His intelligence was not strong… Ali couldn’t pass the IQ test for being accepted into the armed services—until racist politicians got the requirements lowered to just below Ali’s very low score. This is historical fact.
Wladimir—in stark contrast—has polished his defense to where he rarely gets hit with a hard punch. His punching power and KO ratio are among the best in heavyweight history. His intelligence is so keen that Emmanuel Steward said he’s the smartest boxer he ever coached—and he’s coached hundreds.
At an age (38) where Ali was beaten down and couldn’t win — Wladimir is still the recognized King of the Heavyweights. He will further that legacy in years to come, probably into his 40’s.
Wladimir won more Heavyweight Championship fights… Had more successful title defenses… Has a greater winning ratio… Has a greater KO ratio… and dominates his fights to a much greater degree than Ali did.
There’s greater competition today than Ali’s day… The world population doubled.
In Ali’s day his main completion was other Americans—only 5% of the world’s population. Few other countries had professional boxing trainers and infrastructure set up to the extent they do today. Many countries that had no professional boxing have programs in place to produce top professional boxers. A huge slice of the planet that didn’t even allow professional boxing in Ali’s day is producing the best professional heavyweights.
Only a racist, or partisan American nationalist, would say this is a terrible era for heavyweights, just because American heavyweights can’t dominate.Posted August 25, 2014 6:37 pm
SREDMOND displaying the classic bias of thinking that 300 million Americans are more important than 750 million Europeans.
The Klitschko brothers are NOT footnotes you Yank-centric fool.
You equate everything to how well something sells PPV to an American audience, or plays to self-serving American boxing press.
Maybe if you got more than two weeks holiday per year you would be able to visit things called “other countries” and that might broaden your Gary Coleman sized mind.Posted August 25, 2014 6:35 pm
class act.Posted August 25, 2014 6:24 pm
Dumb sheetz, Wlad and Vitali are the ONLY BIO BLOOD BROTHERS to hold the HW Championship Belts at the same time. That fact is enough to put the K-Bros in the record books for ALL TIME!! WHITE BROTHERS TO BOOT, just to add injury to insult. Vitali was off for FOUR YEARS you Ali Tards. He did more than Clay ever did as HW Champ. And how to tear a muscle bro, try a left hook and connect off balance or off target and hyper extend your left arm….. Ali, as Cassius Clay, as you say, in his PRIME was KTFO by White Man Sir Henry Cooper with a solid left hook delivered with precision. Down goes Clay, down goes Clay, down goes Clay!!! See what I am sayin, sow what I am sayin, know what I am sayin. Freaking morons. Some of you cats have an IQ of 69.0 or less.Posted August 25, 2014 6:21 pm
SadPosted August 25, 2014 6:17 pm
Pulev can now have a fight against Briggs in some obscure American backwater casino with sn audience if 50.Posted August 25, 2014 6:14 pm
hibdeebibdee : Ali was much heavier after 3 years layof, and the oppents where also getting bigger and better. Besides Old Liston what great fighter did ALi fight in the 60’s ?
B E A R S
its pretty easy to glean who would win. clay is regarded as a bit of a feather fisted accumulation puncher. NOBODY accumulates on a klitschKO.
clays jab is inferior to wlads in every way. his power as well. u have to look at clays opponents he fought at his peak. little frazier did quite well against him. frazier would not be successfull in this era. nobody is gonna hurt and dropped by little frazier and 180 pound henrys hammer in this era. clay always shelled up and took shots. he would be brutalized if he shelled up vs a klitschko they absolutely love destroying people by punching through their guards. they are guard buster extrordinairePosted August 25, 2014 5:36 pm
Nobody knows if Ali would have beaten Wlad, as there is no time machine, but Wlad has fought fighters with some, but not all of Ali’s skills (like Haye as fast and hit harder, but not as skilled), Ali never fought anyone even close to Wlad. We will never know, so what is the point?Posted August 25, 2014 5:19 pm
Sredmond, let’s see you hate Wlad (both bros actually), 3G and Kovalev and love Hopkins, LL, Ali, Ward and PBF. My comment is related to your thousands of posts not this one, and I at no time called you names or a bigot now did I? And where did you see any comment in my post about Ali? I am from this country as are many other Wlad fans so your comment is just plain wrong. You also have no clue about the future now do you?Posted August 25, 2014 5:16 pm
OK hibdeebibdee let’s just pick dates right. Wlad has 65 fights in 18 years or 3.6 fights per year. I think even you can probably understand that math, but maybe not. Pathetic indeed.Posted August 25, 2014 5:10 pm
Btw, IF Wlad was fighting at the time Muhammad Ali was known as Cassius Clay, Clay would have handed his a$$ to him on a platter. Had Ali not been banned from boxing for three years he would have been the undefeated undisputed heavyweight champion of the world for that entire time and probably for at least a few more years to boot. The world never got to see the best of Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali because when he was in his prime he had to stop fighting. For three long years.Posted August 25, 2014 5:08 pm
B E A R S
sresmond still talking about 10 plus years ago pretending its relevant or wlad was peak? what a nutsackPosted August 25, 2014 5:01 pm
“He fights an average of 2.5 times a year”
How do ya figure that, laj? Since 2009 Wlad has had 9 fights. Woopeedoo. That’s less than two fights a year but even 2.5 average ain’t nothing to write home about.
Wlad fought once in 2009, 2 times in 2010, once in 2011, 3 times in 2012, 2 times in 2013, and it looks like he’ll be fighting only once this year. PATHETIC. Luxury boxing at its finest.Posted August 25, 2014 5:01 pm
Pulev just needs to bide his time, Wlad is only gonna get older and slower. At his age he will look old overnight in a fight soon. Pulev might be able to get a points win with the jabPosted August 25, 2014 4:55 pm
How do ya tear a muscle fiber while sparring? Too much clinching. :)Posted August 25, 2014 4:40 pm
I have information that Wlad was in poor shape and taking beating from sparing partners and this is the reason for simulating the injury.Initialy he simulated knee injury but then switched to biceps injury since biceps injury is harder to prove wrong.Posted August 25, 2014 4:39 pm
burst a buble
Laj, not really my point but never mind. This wont happenPosted August 25, 2014 4:34 pm
Actually Burst he did postpone the fight with Mormeck for kidney stones, shows how much you know. Wlad has had to postpone fights with Mormeck, Chambers & cancelled the fight with Chisora dues to stomach muscles pulls to fight Haye instead. Now Pulev, which is the most disappointing, but it just means we have to wait and be patient.Posted August 25, 2014 4:24 pm
Bo Bo Olson
I wonder how many of these expert haters have actually been to a live boxing match. One can get a lot of good action from the under fights.
Lots of times the camera angle is wrong. I was frog-eyeing at both Sanders and Byrd fights, looking at the big screen and the fight going on in the ring….under fights …. what looked like a punch in the big screen was a miss in reality.
Some times the judges do see more of the fight than the TV screen angle. Sometimes they are biased but that is another story.
I always suggest turning off the sound and seeing a fight instead of listening to some one’s opinion of what is going on. Form your own opinion, and not swallow biased commentator’s opinion.
What’s best? turn on a fight where you don’t know either and are not carrying your bias….then enjoy a fight with out the rose colored glasses.
Too bad some are not old enough to drink….they would be mouthing to empty seats around them or being the fool on the floor seeing stars.Posted August 25, 2014 4:17 pm
I am no Wlad fan but how many times has Wlad ever had to call off a fight from injury? The man is not scared of anybody in the heavyweight division right now. Nobody is beating WladPosted August 25, 2014 4:03 pm
burst a buble
Bet he wouldnt call it off for moremeck. Wlad not intrested in Pulev, doubt this fight wont happen. Said before our Ruslan Changev is the best heavyweight in the division and the WBA champions of the world is the future of this divisionPosted August 25, 2014 3:56 pm
was sanders really a golf caddy.Posted August 25, 2014 3:22 pm
bang on.Posted August 25, 2014 3:19 pm
Wlad does not have a chance to defeat Ali and for the record LONG after Wlad is forgotten for ruling a barren era full of manufactured threats Ali will STILL be 100x more famous and this is proven by the fact that Wlad would likely get mistaken for a basketball player as opposed to HW King by most in this country…Posted August 25, 2014 3:17 pm
What a shame. hahahahahahhhhhh.Posted August 25, 2014 3:03 pm
Wlad will not fight Pulev. Live and let live. So Wlad-Stiverne… no belt stripping from IBF.Posted August 25, 2014 2:52 pm
Comparing Wladimir to Ali is laughable. Thats like comparing Dwyane Wade to Jordan. Thats insane. Of course he’s beating all of these guys now because they are horrible. And again, he only fights in Germany, and he only fights once or twice a year. And did one of you guys actually call Eddie Chambers a “master boxer”? OK, on that note, I’m done. Theres no arguing with guys who are so far up Wlad’s hole that they can’t see the light of day. Have fun celebrating your “champion” because he’s not even in most experts top ten all time list hahahahaha.Posted August 25, 2014 2:42 pm
And anyone else from Eastern Europe. He knows if he uses “Sredmond” nobody believes a word the racist says.Posted August 25, 2014 2:32 pm
Joshua didn’t knock Wladimir out Sredmond… Is this your life’s work – lying your ass off to discredit the Klitschko Bros?Posted August 25, 2014 2:29 pm
Joshua knocked wlad out. Takes a few weeks to get over the brutal KOPosted August 25, 2014 2:19 pm
“Sanders, Purrity and Brewster. I rest my case.”
Wladimir stopped Brewster in their rematch. His brother Vitali stopped the other 2 guys so he didn’t have to bother.
That’s 3 losses. Ali had 5 losses and fewer wins than Wladimir.
When Ali was Wladimir’s age he was losing every minute of every round to his former sparring partner before quitting on his stool. Ali really slacked off.
Ali was so easy to hit compared to the fully finished professional that Wladimir is today, that’s it’s ridiculous to even compare their 2 defenses.
And offensively – you’ve never seen Ali stretch a master boxer like Eddie Chambers with a single left hook. Chambers has never been stopped before or since, but one shot and he’s completely destroyed.
Masterful boxer-puncher David Haye was almost shut out by Wladimir.
Of course, Wladimir wasn’t a fully finished professional until after he obtained Emmanuel Steward’s services, and had 3 or 4 years of tutelage under the master trainer. Now he’s a master himself. T is discounting the last 10 plus years of Wladimir’s career.
It’s not where your career starts – it’s where it ends up. Ali’s career didn’t end up very well — and neither did Robinson’s.
The way Gene Tunney’s ended up? … That’s what you want. That’ll be Wladimir.Posted August 25, 2014 2:04 pm
Damn! Injuries happen. But hey, it gets postponed. Ducking. Ffs go learn a bit about the sport. Posting such ignorant, unintelligent and ill-informed tripe just confirms the strongly held suspicions that you are a total waste of valuable oxygen little tPosted August 25, 2014 2:01 pm
Sanders had a great night and caught Wlad clean, he should get credit for his upset. Instead many try and tear him down. Sanders could be a great fighter when his mind was in the game and was always dangerous. Wlad learned a valuable lesson that night.Posted August 25, 2014 12:51 pm
Bit T you have no case. He lost, get over it, that was 10 years ago. He hasn’t lost since and isn’t likely to do so again. A true sign of greatness is to be down and get back up, this is exactly what he did. Puttin Wilder in his league really shows your complete lack of boxing knowledge LMAO.Posted August 25, 2014 12:42 pm
Bo Bo Olson
Edjumaked too….been to some collage, while boxing part time.
Shame on them foreigners. Taking away US jobs like that.
It’s them polite folks that stab you with a jab.
They are stupid boxers, instead of being properly punching it out to the max every round chin checking….every fight.
Been watching them being hated back when they were still doing 6-8 round fights in Germany, that were not televised to the US.
What is this the third generation of Klitschko haters?Posted August 25, 2014 12:39 pm
Agreed Lenin, he was pushing too hard at this close to the fight. 15 rounds against different partners is a recipe for these types of injuries.Posted August 25, 2014 12:38 pm
Sanders, Purrity and Brewster. I rest my case. And maybe I should go ahead and put Wilder in there by brutal KO too, oh yea, Wladimir will never face him. Damn, nevermind again…Posted August 25, 2014 12:37 pm
When I read that he was sparring 15 opponents, I thought that he could train a bit too much so that he might overstretch a muscle or so. And look what happened… Whatever. Fight in a few months, it’s alright.Posted August 25, 2014 12:30 pm
By the way Steroid testing in Germany is as tough or tougher than the US. Wach was suspended for one year after he was tested positive when he fought Wlad (probably the only reason he made it to the bell). Wlad has none of the signs of a fighter on steroids, other than a sculpted body. Talking about Wlad juicing while mentioning Holy? We know who the real juicer is now don’t we?Posted August 25, 2014 12:07 pm
wlad tries 2 distract Pulev hoping 2 catch him in worse shape.Posted August 25, 2014 12:05 pm
Big T again your statements show your even basic knowledge of Wlad or boxing for that matter. Even though Wlad gets hurt, as do most fighters he still fights on average more than other champions especially HVWT’s. He has KO’d 18 fighters that had never been KO’d before. That is as many as Foreman, Ali, Joe Louis, Holy, LL & Shavers combined, so he does KO these fighters. To say someone that is a boxer/puncher should KO everyone in the first round is again showing a severe lack of understanding. Yes he did have losses OVER 10 years ago, so what is the point? Name any great other than Rocky that didn’t have losses. Saying dumb things like Holy would have taken him out when Holy had a 22% KO rate in HVWT championship fights really says all we need to know about your being a hater and not rational.Posted August 25, 2014 12:03 pm
wlad vs pulev 2013 yeah!!! wlad vs pulev 2014 finally!!! wlad vs pulev 2015 wtf!!! there is just too much talk and hype from these heavies and not enough quality fights. Only brave enough to fight taxi drivers. circus freak show!!!Posted August 25, 2014 11:58 am
I know plenty about Wladimir. I know that get got KOed by Corrie Sanders and his “big brother” had to come and avenge his loss. I still remember when Lamon Brewster KOed him too. I know he and his brother only fight in Germany, where steroids is basically legal. When Lance Armstrong was winning all of those Tour De Frances all of a sudden, there were some people who said that he was on the juice. But of course his fans all screamed “no he isn’t!” This reminds me of that. And seriously, I can’t remember a heavyweight champion that has gotten injured as much as he does. It seems like every other fight, or at least the fights where he could possibly lose. And if he was so great, wouldn’t he be knocking these guys out in a round or two? He and his brother are the two main reasons why the heavyweight division is a joke right now. And to be honest, I seriously hope that Deontay Wilder is the real deal and that he fights Klitschko next year so that I can see Wlad get KOed again. Oh wait, I’m sure Klit will get injured and the fight will get postponed….nevermindPosted August 25, 2014 11:53 am
Latest is is was a bicep muscle pull and likely middle November. Disappointing as I was looking for Wlad to be pushed a little more than normal.Posted August 25, 2014 11:30 am
Big T do you even know anything about boxing, ever followed Wlad? He fights an average of 2.5 times a year, despite having some injuries. He has more fights than Bernard Hopkins and any other champion in the sport today despite not fighting as many years. Really get a clue, or you just sound dumb, which I am sure your not.Posted August 25, 2014 11:29 am
Brazilian Boxing Fan to KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR
The Wladimir Klitschko-Kubrat Pulev fight will not happen in October. I believe they will announce a new date for it in late October or early November, sir.Posted August 25, 2014 11:16 am
Big T has the beat.Posted August 25, 2014 11:16 am
Its only a stay of execution for Pulev.Come October he is still getting KO’d.Posted August 25, 2014 11:10 am
what a mess,been looking forward to this fight…Posted August 25, 2014 10:57 am
burst a buble
As soon as someone half decent fights him, he pulls out. what a suprisePosted August 25, 2014 10:48 am
what a mess. what a mess. fury vs chisora then ustinov then no one. stiverne vs wilder, oh wait lets put wilder in with another taxi driver first, one that is really out of shape. No all talk about pulev vs wlad………..delay. Something is terribly wrong with heavyweight boxing.Posted August 25, 2014 10:42 am
I was Boxtradamusizing when I read Wlad was sparring 15 partners, and I thought he is pushing it to hard and could injure himself and postpone fight. And voila, it happened. Rats! But as Curly stated, it is only 2 months out. We can wait that long before we burn and pillage and rape and loot the village. Be patient fans be patient.Posted August 25, 2014 10:40 am
Klitschko ducked Pulev !Posted August 25, 2014 10:32 am
Are you sure he never hit that big fat bum in the cafe. lol.Posted August 25, 2014 10:28 am
And what? Did Klitschko not take his turn of steroids this time???? This guy is the absolute worst champion of all times. I still can’t believe you guys praise him like you do. He would have been killed by the likes of Foreman, Tyson, Lewis, Ali, Norton, even a young Holyfield hahahaha. Yet now he beats guys like Pulev, that is, when he actually fights them, and you guys praise him like he’s the man. Pathetic. His brother held the belt hostage for over a year and Wlad fights once or twice a year too. It’s a joke.Posted August 25, 2014 10:28 am
Brazilian Boxing Fan
Unfortunate.Posted August 25, 2014 10:26 am
Klitschko suffers massive injury and PULEV becomes the people’s champion exactly as I predicted. I am the greatest fight PROPHET ever born!!!!Posted August 25, 2014 10:22 am
Watch this . . . Wald fights Stiverne. Stiverne given a big pay day and Wilder is paid with a chance to fight Wlad. Pulev waits. Pulev paid to wait. Big change small change. whatevers . . .Posted August 25, 2014 10:18 am
Of course it is. How is it that the guys with the “perfect bodies” always end up getting hurt in training? And Klitschko is the whackest champion ever by the way. He and his brothers’ long list of bums is a running jokePosted August 25, 2014 10:14 am
bull bunk drivel gibberish guff hogwash nonsense rubbish baloney bosh bunkum flim-flam hokum hooey malarkey phooey JUST PLAIN BS!Posted August 25, 2014 10:14 am
Injuries can happen to boxers especially when training as hard as Wlad does. Be patient as the fight will happen two months from now.Posted August 25, 2014 10:12 am
ahhhhhhhhh!Posted August 25, 2014 10:09 am