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TARK

Right…, Finito was a lot better than Wilde.. Would have murdered him.

Posted November 7, 2013 11:53 pm 


Anonymous

Finito

Posted November 7, 2013 8:24 pm 


EZ E

ANONYMOUS Wilde? hmmm.. Yes, that he was. Very difficult/impossible to name a better Flyweight than ‘The Mighty Atom’!

Posted November 7, 2013 7:26 am 


Anonymous

jimmy wilde. greatest flyweight ever.

Posted November 6, 2013 4:33 pm 


EZ E

AS A FOOTNOTE TO MY ARTICLE: Comrade, Magomed Abdusalamov, and his family needs our support. Please give as generously as you can, no amount is too small. Together we can make a difference. He gave us, the fans, a great fight until the end. We can honestly say that he gave it all for himself, his family and… for us! Thank you for joining me in this noble cause.

Posted November 6, 2013 4:25 am 


TARK

The problem I see… When you can really punch and knock everybody out you can’t get the appropriate opponents into a ring… i.e. Golovkin and Kovalev.

When you get knocked out a lot you also don’t get appropriate fights. You get a lot of offers from shyster managers who want to pad up their undefeated boxers’ records.

Posted November 5, 2013 10:17 pm 


Kid Blast

Assyrian God good point. The business model has changed dramatically. Back in the day, it was not about training; it was about earning money. The more fight, the more money. Today, the model is get the most bang for the buck.

Posted November 5, 2013 8:55 pm 


Kid Blast

And let’s not forget the bloodthirsty fans in the great movie “The Set Up.”

Posted November 5, 2013 8:53 pm 


Kid Blast

When Briggs got slaughtered by Vitali and when Oscar Diaz bot butchered by Golden Johnson, the corners were quite brave. Much more so than their fighters were sliced and dic3ed into bloody messes. What part of the white towel didn’t these guys get?

Posted November 5, 2013 8:52 pm 


TARK

AssyrianGod.., “Some people forget that without the Journeymen, Trial Horses, Fringe Contenders, Over the Hill fighters and so called (by some) ”bums”, ”stiffs” and ”Tomato Cans” there would be no Boxing. To a great degree these often unsung and ridiculed fighters are the lifeblood of the sport. In addition, to enter a ring as such a fighter, KNOWING that your opponent outguns and outskills you on every level, is the epitome of bravery.”

How about the epitome of foolishness???

A lot of mentally weak fighters are talked into fights they have no business taking.. When they say “NO” it isn’t the end of the discussion.. The managers will demean them, ridicule them, call them names, threaten them … and in the end the “bum” will nearly always allow himself be overmatched and knocked out again.. I’ve heard a promoter say to an opponent, “Give us 3 good rounds before you bow out this time, OK?” The answer, “Yeah..yeah.”

If you check the records of guys like Sugar Ray Robinson and compare the quality of the guys Ray fought to Floyd Mayweather, you’ll find that Robinson actually padded his record a lot worse than you ever suspected… But not as bad as guys like “The Mighty Atom” Jimmy Wilde.

Posted November 5, 2013 8:43 pm 


EZ E

ASSYRIAN I’ve said the same before and totally agree. The journeyman/old vets/stepping stones are closely link to the backbone of the game and the “padded” records. Years back the best prospects faced each other with much more regularity. These days the promoters avoid such bouts and rather “cook the fight to perfection”, although we’ve seen our share of “OVER-cooking” as well.

Posted November 5, 2013 6:42 pm 


mayweather 86

Anonymous, I’ve been around these parts since 02′. So I know a thing or two.

Posted November 5, 2013 5:18 pm 


Dino

Good read brother.

Posted November 5, 2013 3:19 pm 


D

So do I. Great post TARK

Posted November 5, 2013 3:11 pm 


EZ E

TARK Good post there. I agree.

Posted November 5, 2013 2:15 pm 


Anonymous

“mayweather 86

Professional keyboard jockey. Yea that’s pretty much what goes on here.”

Appears to be addressed to all readers. A mindless blathering to all.

Spoken like a hooded clansman whose convinced he’s got the world figured out. The ironly of hiding under a hood called “mayweather 86″ gives one authority to address all commers as “professional keyboard jocky[s]“? Oh, the irony is rich, very rich!

Posted November 5, 2013 1:59 pm 


TARK

What I hate is when a boxer wants to quit and his corner tries to make him keep fighting… The Alvarado-Provodnikov fight was one.

Referee Tony Weeks.., “SHUT UP!!! I want to talk to the fighter!! Eveybody SHUT UP!!! MIKE.. Do you want to continue???” … No answer.

Weeks.., “It’s OVER!!”

That’s the type of referee you want.. A guy who’s thinking of the boxer.

Posted November 5, 2013 1:28 pm 


Happyboy

A few names come into mind as quiters but not cowards : Ortiz & Zab Judah.

Posted November 5, 2013 12:25 pm 


EZ E

FLASHKNOCKDOWN
You do make some valid points. However, to be honest with you, I never gave dying in the ring much thought, if any. Maybe if I did I wouldn’t have fought in the first place. But that’s just me. In reference to your ‘reputations as quitters’ comment, I look at that in diverse perspectives. Was the ‘reputation’ fabricated by an announcer or the media on ONE high profile fight or because the fighter had done it before?? I read and heard fans, writers and media rip Alvarado for calling it a night with “only” two rounds to go and “bless” him with a “QUITTER” tag. I personally know of fighter that decided to take the count, knowing he had enough, and later become world champion. ‘Quitting’ and ‘cowardice’ are two different things. Some fighters quit easier than others, while for some you have to ‘quit’ for them. While working in corners I’ve advised the chief second, “I think we ought to stop this”, and I’d sometimes get a reply, “Let’s wait another round”. I’ve heard fighters say, “Man, I’ll getting my ass kicked. Nothing is working, but don’t stop it yet”. I’ve stopped fights in the past. Sometimes the fighter accepted my decision rather calmly while others have protested. Better too early than TOO LATE. I’ve also had the experience of our fighter coming back to the corner and say, “I think I’ve had enough” and stopped it. But.. have I ever tried to talk a fighter out of it? Well.. yes. But that’s where the QUALITY of the corner man comes into play. How well do they actually KNOW their fighter? “Are you hurt?” or has he been taking too much punishment (what’s ‘too much punishment’ for some is not necessarily too much for others. Some are not used to getting hurt or “dinged” and it’s a new experience for them) or is he too tired or.. is he more discouraged than hurt? Has he done this before? And one of my personal ‘rule of thumb’ was, “If he were MY son, what would want his corner to do?” And of course, I will ask him again, “Do you really want me to stop it.” If he hesitates or responds with “yes’ nod, then it’s over. But, the quitter is not a coward.

Posted November 5, 2013 10:21 am 


canuck

This is probably the finest article I have ever read on ESB. Well done.

Posted November 5, 2013 9:50 am 


Happyboy

Best posts go to Chuck Norris!

Posted November 5, 2013 9:27 am 


Enough Already !

Best article on the site in a while. Thank you !

Posted November 5, 2013 6:57 am 


TARK

Old Coot.., You’re as blind as a brick and I have the sight of a Peregrine Falcon.. Hatton landed nothing of value on Floyd.. Cortez frequently let Floyd and Ricky fight on the inside where Floyd had much the better of the action inside, where Hatton was smothering his own punches.. Hatton did a good job vs Malignaggi … Paulie is more his speed.

The best punch Hatton landed on Floyd was a right to the back of the head when Floyd was outside the ropes… That cost Ricky a point.

Posted November 5, 2013 1:15 am 


Chuck Norris

I remain relevant.

You think I couldn`t take The Rock?

That fool could punch me square on the jaw and I wouldn`t even feel it through my beard.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:21 pm 


Hidalgo

“Somehow he survived the meteor strike that killed dinosaurs.”

Yeah, you missed your calling too, Chuck Norris. The megafauna went extinct ages ago.

Posted November 4, 2013 10:03 pm 


mayweather 86

No ut Mark. One of those geriatric fellas.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:31 pm 


The Prince

This is why I have no respect for fans who criticize skilled, technical boxer, whom smartly use defense, ring intelligence, and tactics to avoid taking massive punishment and risking their health. The boxing ring, in front of thousands of people watching, with the opponent at the other end looking to hurt you can be a terrifying place. For that reason alone, men whom choose to put on the gloves are not cowards and fighting smartly isn’t running, it’s boxing, which is the name of the sport. Yes Brawlers add more drama because of the danger factor, but then said Brawler gets seriously injured, don’t pretend like you care about him, because deep down your don’t. That’s just your feeling of guilt, because you enjoyed seeing him murdered in the ring.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:24 pm 


Chuck Norris

Chuck Norris says you all better show more respect to TARK, he is a tough SOB.

Somehow he survived the meteor strike that killed dinosaurs.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:51 pm 


Old Coot

@ Old Yank: I agree… Tex Cobb, was one of those sideshow (better than good, but not great) fighters whose trade mark was his iron beard that could take immense punishment and mostly win, or when he did lose like against Holmes, he literally proved, “You might’ve won… But you didn’t hurt me”… But then in those days we still had no idea about just how much damage that sort of punishment does to the brain. So it truly was seen as cowardice to quit. Now except for some ignorant arm-chair fans, we know better. And I contend that while some fighters like Cobb took insane damage, he was not effected that much mentally, as testament to the fact that January 2008 when age 57, Cobb graduated magna cum laude from Temple University… Not to mention he won his last ten fights and 7 of the last ten by KO or TKO… On the flip-side, we have the great Muhammad Ali, who due to his great defensive skills, took half the punishment that Cobb took, yet can barely speak. The point being you never know who can take it and who can’t, so it is best to err on the side of caution…. And I for one am glad to see we are finally wising up and protecting our brave gladiators so they can entertain us longer with less ill effects.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:37 pm 


dwc

Old Yank…I see what your saying now..using the Holmes-Cobb fight as a example.Yes I recall that fight clearly..brutal beat down,Cobb was a tough man..no doubt.But champs like Holmes or any champ for that matter,has those inbetween fights,keep busy type fights.And ofcourse they can be great mismatches thats why a cornerman should be a real pro and know when to not let his fighter back out for the next round.And thats why refs should know when to stop a fight…but sadly there are crappy cornermen and refs,then we see stuff like the Holmes-Cobb fight happen.But luckly not that often,and I think less as time goes by…

Posted November 4, 2013 8:33 pm 


Old Coot

TARK: Then you are blind as a mole… So get some new eyeballs and watch the Hatton VS Mayweather fight again… Particularly how Floyd referee stooge, Joe Cortez, kept preventing Hatton from fighting Floyd in his own natural style.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:19 pm 


mark

MAYWEATHER 86, NO , WHAT’S UP ?

Posted November 4, 2013 8:15 pm 


Fight Aficionado

“Mago PROBABLY should’ve QUIT on his stool – he was HURT during the 1st round.” – More importantly he broke his hand in round 1. This drastically reduced the likelihood of a KO win. John David Jackson should’ve stopped it. Mago is a warrior, he’s not quitting. It’s the trainer’s job to pull the plug on a fight to protect his charge when he can’t win. By round 7 Mago could not win. In grueling fights it’s often those last few rounds where the accumulation of damage causes brain bleeds.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:09 pm 


Chuck Norris

Andre Dirrell – he’s a coward.

Chuck Norris has no time for all this sensitive new age metros.e.x.u.al Bull$h!t.

Some people are born made of 100% pure American hero like me, and some are born made of soft sauce and loser juice like communists and Andre Dirrell.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:05 pm 


mayweather 86

Been around here since 2002. So who are you again? Did I address you?

Posted November 4, 2013 8:01 pm 


mark

I REALLY DON’T THINK PEOPLE FEEL BOXERS ARE COWARDS .I JUST FEEL THAT AS FAN ARE NOTING GETTING THE FIGHTS THEY WANT OR PAY FOR. WHY DO SO FEW BOXERS IN THE SPORT TALK SO MUCH S-IT AND DON’T FIGHT THE BEST ? IF YOUR THE BEST FIGHT THE BEST ! PLEASE THE FAN’S THAT PAY GOOD MONEY ! I KNOW IF I DONT GO TO WORK I DON’T GET PAID LIKE MANY OF US. SO I SAY WINNER TAKES ALL OR FIND A NEW JOB.

Posted November 4, 2013 7:21 pm 


147pounder

As a true fan of the sweet sience* I must say that i take off my hat for every fighter who enters a boxing ring……all of them deserve our respect…I also wil confess that as I was reading this article tears started to flood my eyes…..this article hopefully wil start changing the mentallity of certain fans who wd call any of this brave warriors…..cowards. …my respects for all those great warriors regardless of their record……

Posted November 4, 2013 7:03 pm 


mark

GIVE ME 3 FIGHTERS IN THE WORLD TODAY THAT WOULD TAKE THE CHALLENGE WINNER TAKES ALL . MY PICKS PACMAN , GOLOVKIN, WARD.

Posted November 4, 2013 6:37 pm 


mark

TAKES HEART TO STEP INTO ANY RING ! BUT IT TAKES MORE HEART TO STEP INTO THE RING WINNER TAKES ALL ! BRING BACK 15 ROUNDS AND WINNER TAKES ALL AND LETS SEE HOW MANY FIGHTER BELIEVE IN THEIR SKILL’S THEN ?

Posted November 4, 2013 6:31 pm 


richard stent

ABSOLUTE TOP CLASS ARTICLE….SO VERY TRUE.
WELL DONE!! MUCH NEEDED.

Posted November 4, 2013 6:25 pm 


Cyber-H@mster

Boxing is full of hyperbole and salesmanship, and if you take too much of it literally you`ll be forever picking things apart.

If he were being plain and honest you might have Boxer A say:

I have been improving, I think I am one of the best boxers in the world, and I can overachieve when matched up against the right style or someone on the decline. These guys holding the belts at the moment though – they are a step too far, I think they`ll beat me, and once they do my earning power will be permanently diminished for the rest of my career. I`m taking a tactical decision to bide my time and see if things open out in future.

And the fan reaction to that would probably be: Okay, that`s pretty open, I can respect that. You have to step up at some point, but if you feel this is your level for now, then fair enough.

However if Boxer A says:

I am the broom and I am here to sweep all the $h1t out of this division, I am going to destroy these overrated fools. WHo has the champ fought – he ain`t never fought noone like me, he aint never tasted my power. His style is made for me. Why he running? Why he lowballing me etc etc etc.

The fan reaction is probably going to be: OKay you got my attention, you have promise fireworks, you had better face the champion RIGHT NOW, because if I hear a bunch of excuses I am going to label you a loud mouth coward.

It`s all relative to the expectations you have created for yourself.
If you say you`ll fight ANYONE then you had better fight ANYONE or fans get on your back.
If you are respectful to your opponents and honest in how you are directing your career, fans will respond to that respectfully.

Posted November 4, 2013 6:24 pm 


TARK

Old Coot.., “You see what happens when Floyd faces guys with their own foot-speed and agility, such as Hatton, Oscar, Ortiz and Cotto.”

I didn’t see Hatton land a damned thing on Floyd that was threatening in any way… He was taking all the way… Oscar didn’t land very much for the 2nd richest fight of all time… Ortiz’s best shot was with his head…

Cotto is the only guy who really landed successfully on Floyd besides Judah and Mosley. Those 3 really tagged Floyd pretty good—and Floyd took the offense against all three of them.

Do you want to see Floyd go on offense??? Tag him up!!!

Posted November 4, 2013 5:21 pm 


Old Yank

mayweather 86 — Feel free to come and go as you please.

Posted November 4, 2013 5:15 pm 


Old Yank

Old Coot — The Cobb/Holmes mismatch is a great example of courage set on its ear. A business deal? An opportunity for Cobb to pay his mortgage? Or a stunning act of “legal assault in the ring”, as Howard Cosell put it as he refused to call another boxing match in his life?

We’ve caught a lot of banter about “every fighter” having “courage” to step in the ring. But is the statement really true?

I’m only one fan but I do not believe that the word “courage” belongs anywhere near some of the great mismatches in boxing — and there have been many. In fact, in my mind, acts of cowardice, although ugly, stand a lot closer to what was done in some of these mismatches than courage.

Posted November 4, 2013 5:13 pm 


mayweather 86

Professional keyboard jockey. Yea that’s pretty much what goes on here.

Posted November 4, 2013 5:12 pm 


B Red

Kid Blast, I dig

Posted November 4, 2013 4:51 pm 


pro

Floyd mayweather jr is afraid of Manny Pacmman , Sergio Martinez and Lara if not fight them and stop running. Canelo is a bum. Canelo need to fight Lara now. Lara is the best fighter at 154 hand down. Floyd is not going to fight him. Too Scared he’s a coward yo.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:48 pm 


nameless

i have the beat!

Posted November 4, 2013 4:45 pm 


Kid Blast

B Red , I dig, ya dig

Posted November 4, 2013 4:44 pm 


Old Yank

dwc — I believe you are correct. (and my post was supposed to read: “…I DON’T think he [Rosenthal] was the one who coined the phrase…”

Posted November 4, 2013 4:42 pm 


Old Yank

It’s a sport. It’s entertainment. Indeed it’s brutal and seriously risky for the fighters. The fighters deserve respect. Colorful language drapes around boxing like a cigarette and alcohol infused mink around a street-walker’s neck. It’s not always pretty, it often stinks, but she seems to like it. The language and rhetoric of fans surrounding all of sports has historically been granted wide latitude.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:39 pm 


nameless

coward? never, but we have plenty of stiffs, tomato cans and bums.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:38 pm 


Old Yank

Kid Blast — Point taken and well made.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:33 pm 


B Red

The real eab posters respect this article. A Figher who steps in the ring is not a coward or bum, ya dig

Posted November 4, 2013 4:29 pm 


Tomato Can

How do you get fighter that’s past it stop fighting? Ali couldn’t even hit a speed bag anymore leading up to the Holmes fight. I’m sure this type of thing goes on more than I know.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:28 pm 


Kid Blast

Old Yank , I have never criticized a fan for calling a fighter a bum, stiff, or tomato can. I have criticized writers and announcers. The ticket the fan buys allows him that right.

However, it’s not and never has been my thing. Each to his own. I will say , however, that boxing provided a livelihood for a few, very few, journalist and they should be very circumspect about insulting those who risk their lives to put food on the table of some of these Tweaks, Twits, and nerds.

That is all. Later.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:26 pm 


dwc

Old Yank…Jack Miley..of the NY post….calling Louis fights bum of the month fights…pretty crappy comment. And guys that fight these shot fighters arent warriors ofcourse,their mostly looking to put a name on their record for a better payday in the future.But no thats not a warrior like move…but at the same time their not cowards looking to get bigger and better money fights in the future.Its more of a bussiness move in a way.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:24 pm 


Tomato Can

Old Yank, yeah the Dokes/Bowe fight was ugly, you could see that one comming from a mile away.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:23 pm 


Tomato Can

Old Yank, I’m not sure was it a Joe Louis opponent?

Posted November 4, 2013 4:21 pm 


Old Yank

Tomato Can –

Ken Rosenthal wrote of Michael Dokes (when Dokes was well past his prime and mismatched against a prime Bowe in 2003), “It was pathetic, but seriously, what did anyone expect? …In boxing, heavyweight champions start bum of the month clubs.” I think he was the writer that “coined” the term “bum of the month club”. It was a sad commentary on boxing.

I don’t know exactly what was on Rosenthal’s mind but I sensed his frustration when he wrote it.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:18 pm 


Old Coot

Let me rephrase… The very decent, grossly underrated, ATG, Larry Holmes, wanted the ref to stop his dismantling of Tex Cobb’s mugg! But the ref didn’t to please the fans

Posted November 4, 2013 4:13 pm 


Old Coot

I remember in the early 80s when Larry Holmes begged to stop his destruction of Randall “Tex” Cobb, however because Cobb was known as “The Human Sponge” the ref not only didn’t stop it, but let it go the full 15 rounds. Thankfully Cobb was not effected as badly as some fighters… But still his face was mush! I also recall when Pacquiao being the very decent, compassionate gentleman REAL fighter he is, wanted the ref to stop the fight in both the Cotto and the Margarito fights.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:09 pm 


Old Yank

Trivia — Who coined the term “bum of the month club”?

Posted November 4, 2013 4:05 pm 


Old Coot

@ Tark: Oh I forgot…. Hatton got KO’d late and Ortiz got sucker-punched.

Posted November 4, 2013 4:03 pm 


Old Yank

Tomato Can –

Great post — “The problem is a lot of these so called stiff’s and tomato cans, lay down their health, only to belittled by armchair fighters, who couldn’t carry their jock straps in the ring.”

Many writers have written about when it’s long past time for a fighter to quit. I remember an article within the past year or two that all but begging James Toney to call it quits, or for a commission to do it for him.

Here is part of my frustration: When a fighter is so far gone that writers are coming to his “aid” in begging commissions to pull a license, the question arises about how much courage does it require for his opponent to take the bout? Is it an act of courage to accept a bout with a “bum”, a “stiff” a “tomato can” that is clearly so far gone that he’s going to lose?

Are we to call the opponents of these fighters in need of protection from themselves, courageous warriors?

Posted November 4, 2013 3:59 pm 


Old Coot

@ Tark: Floyd has the ability to avoid punches, mainly due to his foot speed against straight-forward slow-fisted, relatively lead legged fighters, such as Gatti, Guerrero, and alvarez… You see what happens when Floyd faces guys with their own foot-speed and agility, such as Hatton, Oscar, Ortiz and Cotto, they drove him to the ropes and landed more than expected or usual, only to have their stamina issues betray them later and therefore lost by points… And anyone who is honest knows that in nearly every category, be it- hand and foot-speed, agility work-rate, chin, heart, punching power, AND stamina departments… Pacquiao is by far the best… And THAT explains all the demands and accusations, to avoid the fight.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:58 pm 


badger

I remember when Vitaly was hammering Briggs and that was not stopped.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:55 pm 


badger

agree with pestilence on PEDS and the margoritos and the Rican who beat Billy Collins with gloves loaded by panama lewis. Duran’s trainer.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:47 pm 


nameless

Those words seem to describe with some accuracy the form that those fighters perform in the ring, so in context, they should be tolerable.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:44 pm 


Happyboy

How can Miguel Cotto be mentioned as a quiter when we all know that Margarito was punching him with bricks for 11rounds. Stupid comments however the article is a good one.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:42 pm 


nameless

“stiff” is one that doesn’t move too well, a sort of tomato can if you will.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:40 pm 


nameless

When I read “tomato can” or “bum” apply to fighters, I understand it to mean a fighter that can not lick a postage stamp. Nothing more.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:38 pm 


te tumbo

TOMATO CAN, perhaps their threshold can be described as business-smart and exceedingly professional. surviving a loss to earn another payday. that’s the long-term business plan. pride and bragging rights is the Bobby Chacon business strategy that the likes of Brandon Rios appears to be emulating. the likes of Ortiz appears determined to choose otherwise.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:34 pm 


Pestilence

No person who laces the gloves up and climbs into the squared circle is a coward. Sure there are those who duck the most testing fights and opponents there are out there for them and hide behind a barricade of transparent excuses. However, they are still professional fighters and in no way, shape or form can they be described as cowards. Labelling them as cowards is just childish and disrespectful. All fighters deserve that basic respect from us armchair fans and their fellow combatants. Calling a professional pugilist a coward is a complete oxymoron.

But there is a certain group of fighters who are deserving of this label. Those who knowingly artificially enhance themselves with illegal performance enhancing drugs so that they enter the ring with an unfair advantage over their opponents.

And some of these really dirty fighters, some of the sport’s more unsavoury characters who repeatedly transgress the rules, are also deserving of this label as well. I’m not talking about dirty as in the occasional rule transgression where one party temporarily loses the plot and acts out of character in the heat of the moment, I’m alluding to fighters who have no regard for the rules at all.

The premeditated and repeated use of illegal tactics and fouling to get an upper hand, specifically certain types of fouling. Rabbit punching and the deliberate utilizing of the head as a weapon is totally unacceptable IMO and the governing bodies and commissions should legislate that referees clamp down very hard on such transgressions.

The punishment should be severe for repeated offenders, as it should be for fighters who’ve been caught knowingly enhancing themselves with illegal PEDs. Any fighter caught doing PEDs once should be issued with a lengthy ban from the sport, a minimum of 3-5 years, and repeat offenders should have their licences confiscated and be banished from the sport indefinitely.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:34 pm 


Hidalgo

“Nice sentiment but truly appalling writing; ALL CAPS ANGRY SPEAK is for the comments section, not the article and as well as being phrased as a question and hence, being followed by a question mark, the title should read “Who are you calling a coward?””

EZ E never claimed to be a Pulitzer Prize winning author. But he wrote a damn good article.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:32 pm 


Tomato Can

te tumbo, “guys like Cintron and Ortiz simply have a lower threshold for pain and sacrifice.” Agreed, I was thinking the same thing.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:22 pm 


te tumbo

guys like Cintron and Ortiz simply have a lower threshold for pain and sacrifice. Ortiz’s candid admission that he was “too young to be taking this type of punishment” is a perfectly healthy and rational response to the contest unexpectedly (there’s that word again) becoming a life-compromising incident. it’s resulted in charges of “cowardice” but the Ali’s (broken jaw) and Marquez’s (cuts and broken nose) are the legendary exceptions that are too frequently cited as the forbidding and unrealistic standard, e.g., Bradley v. Provodnikov will be FOY 2013, which will reinforce the expectation, and so it goes this fight-game of ours.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:18 pm 


anonymous

Nice sentiment but truly appalling writing; ALL CAPS ANGRY SPEAK is for the comments section, not the article and as well as being phrased as a question and hence, being followed by a question mark, the title should read “Who are you calling a coward?”

Posted November 4, 2013 3:15 pm 


Hidalgo

Great article, EZ E. I have no other comment.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:13 pm 


Tomato Can

The problem is a lot of these so called stiff’s and tomato cans, lay down their health, only to belittled by armchair fighters, who couldn’t carry their jock straps in the ring.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:12 pm 


nameless

food for thought for some of you geniuses.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:05 pm 


nameless

“stiff”, “bum” and “tomato can” do not imply cowardice.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:04 pm 


spartacrust

Takes great courage to get in the ring

Posted November 4, 2013 3:03 pm 


nameless

i’m not even sure about “bum”.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:01 pm 


nameless

I’m not so sure about the words “stiff and “tomato can” though.

Posted November 4, 2013 3:00 pm 


nameless

Coward is too strong an improper word to be used when referring to guys willing to get the bones in their faces smashed and their brains hammered. Coward and boxer are mutually exclusive…

Posted November 4, 2013 2:58 pm 


te tumbo

another excellent and soulful write-up from great EZ E. “he was once a WARRIOR, never a coward” captures the pathos of just what it means AFter a ring-warrior has bravely given his all (which each individual must calculate for himself) before recognizing and accepting that there is no more left but their living, breathing heart and life outside of the boxing ring. i was the first to post that there was no shame in the perfectly respectable way that Cotto conceded defeat to Margarito. it’s a sport and a competition NOT a fight to the death, despite the epic accomplishments of a notoriously stubborn breed of ring-warriors who persist beyond any hope of prevailing and Still win(?!?). ultimately, even the most sympathetic expert or fight-fan can’t resist their addiction to the “unexpected” ingredient of the fight-game . . . Paz y Respeto to EZ E.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:52 pm 


PEEJ

It’s one thing when you are taking a beating and quitting but it is totally different when the going gets tough and you quit like Victor Ortiz did against Madaina.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:50 pm 


TARK

Great article EZ E.., There is no shame in quitting during a boxing match if you’re taking a beating. If somebody doesn’t like it they can ESABATM, and pee up a rope while they’re at it.

Besides your list of fairly recent fighters who quit: Julio Cesar Chavez, Miguel Cotto, Oscar De La Hoya, and Kostya Tszyu—guys like Jesse James Leija, Victor Ortiz, and Andrew Golota also quit … and got tons more flak for quitting.

Many fighters from the past also quit—including Muhammad Ali, Sonny Liston, Carlos Ortiz, and Roberto Duran.

Duran had the poorest reason for quitting – getting annoyed.

Duran got frustrated and quit in the middle of a round—of a close fight. A fight he still had a fair chance to win. That was unprofessional. You shouldn’t let your opponent’s taunts, behavior, and tongue sticks dictate whether you continue a fight…and just hand him your valuable world title on a platter. World Championships are worth millions of dollars. You shouldn’t go, “You know what asphole? You’re such a clown, here you go—take my title.”

But in one sense it was good – because Duran had a right to quit.

It was a good lesson for everybody. Duran didn’t need a good reason to quit. He’s the fighter. He can quit whenever he feels like it.

The rules say a boxer can quit any time, for any reason … It’s a game you play… It isn’t WWII—where if we lost our whole country would have gone down.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:45 pm 


dwc

Like someone else said having the internet and twitter and all this other tech stuff at are fingertips,every jerk can speak his mindless dribble.Myself boxing alittle in the 70s I always respected fighters.I been on this site for a long time and never called a fighter a coward or a bum..never.I call less talented fighters sub-par club fighters because thats what some fighters are..not cowards,or bums.Another thing that gets under my skin lately is this rise in racist remarks on BOTH sides of the fence,people not enjoying a fighter for his talent but ripping him up if hes not the right skin color.But this is a different problem we are now seeing in boxing,maybe this issue could be addressed in a article in the future,showing the foolishness in this thinking aswell.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:43 pm 


TARK

Floyd doesn’t have astounding foot speed… He has astrounding skills.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:42 pm 


Old Coot

I don’t even like when people call Floyd a coward… An overrated fraud who only picks opponents who can’t match his foot and hand-speed yeah… But the fact he got in there with Alvarez who could have gotten lucky and landed a haymaker, takes at least some guts!

However, I do wonder… If Floyd did not have such astounding foot-speed, would he be a fighter at all?

Posted November 4, 2013 2:31 pm 


Old Coot

Hear, HEAR… Trust me, even as an amateur, it takes courage to just get in there.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:24 pm 


Drew

Great post. Anyone that refers to any professional boxer as a coward is a stone cold moron. A fighter that lacks the heart necessary to lace up his shoes and get in the ring will be weeded out – by himself or others – long before he turns pro. If you get punched in the nose a few times as a 14 year old amateur and decide boxing isn’t for you, fine … you’re not a coward, you’re just being practical. But if you survive the training, the road work, the sparring, the amateur bouts and eventually turn pro, the one thing you most certainly are not is a coward. The cowards are the loud mouths that criticize fighters, never having had the balls to get anywhere near the ring.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:23 pm 


CurlyQ.Howard

“Mago PROBABLY should’ve QUIT on his stool – he was HURT during the 1st round.” This. I saw it too as should anybody who watched the fight or video of it.

Posted November 4, 2013 2:12 pm 


daprofessor

great article!!!

Posted November 4, 2013 1:53 pm 


EZ E

TJ Very well said. well, I’m off to work, will get back to you later. Maybe I can give you a hand getting the fights you’re looking for. Later!

Posted November 4, 2013 1:49 pm 


TJ

EZ E

I have just seen your reply. I used to spend all my pocket money collecting VHS of old fights. I love black and white fights and truly admire fighters of the 30’s thru the 60’s who were so courageous and fought tough competition regularly and were seldom out of shape. I also admire fighters such as Man of Steel Tony Zale, Rocky Graziano, Jake LaMotta, Carmen Basilio and many others. I have to admit I lost a bit of interest in boxing around the late 90’s for a few years as all the fights moved to satellite, but yes, I am back collecting with full DVD collections of fighters such as Larry Holmes, Marco Antonio Barrera, Juan Manuel Marquez, Terry Norris, Israel Vazquez, Boom Boom Mancini, Wilfredo Gomez, Boza-Edwards, Saad Muhammad, Ricardo Lopez….to name a few….

It’s important for people like yourself to let the youngsters know about the old school, who people seem to brush away like they never existed.

IMHO I think old school fighters were both hungrier and tougher than the newbies….

Just imagine if they had access to all the modern and scientific methods and toys we have today. They’d be unbelievable.

Keep up the good work. I’ll be very interested in your next pieces.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:30 pm 


Old Yank

Kid Blast —

I can’t speak for everyone and don’t. An observed tension between the elite and the proletariat often gives off impressions easily misunderstood. I do not doubt Larry Merchant’s connection to and love of the sport. I agree that he can be raw and rub the wrong way. I do not doubt Ali’s fundamental character or love of the sport. He was seen as disrespectful to a fault by many observers and used language in his trash-talk that you’ve writen about finding offensive.

The article shines in capturing the poignancy of personal perspective. Claim it as your perspective as well if you will; understandable.

I will repeat: The poignancy is at risk of being lost if it is used as a broad brush to call out every fan that in a fit of emotion or anger or frustration referred to a fighter as a bum or a coward, or a “mental basket case”.

I read post after post from a writer mocking and ridiculing Pavlick’s claims that he was under the weather for the Hopkins fight. Words like “mental case” and “basket case” are not exactly terms of endearment and respect. One man’s use of the word “coward” borders on another man’s incessant ridiculing of a fighter; what’s your poison? You’ve got one; we’ve read it.

And Kermit Cintron’s antics in the Williams fight were not exactly seen as an act of courage. Certain writers were quite disrespectful in describing what they concluded from the antics. Insults can be spoken with many disrespectful words without ever using the words “coward” or “bum”.

You say potato and I say potato; hide behind the pronunciation differences if you will.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:24 pm 


rjack58

EZ E,

I remember a few years back when the DEATH of Willie Pep was reported – he died by himself in a nursing home suffering from DEMENTIA PUGILISTICA. This REPORT was a far cry from those reports that were full page descriptions of his fights when he was fighting the TOP guys of his era, this report was a minor caption describing the circumstances of his death and you could’ve missed reading it because of its size and location.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:14 pm 


1-2

Thank You!!!

Posted November 4, 2013 1:13 pm 


Kid Blast

srminimo , point taken

Posted November 4, 2013 1:12 pm 


Anonymous

flash knock down stfu

Posted November 4, 2013 1:11 pm 


flash knock down

Let me try to shed some light on this matter from a top boxers and trainers point of view. Seem like everyone loves your story and I guess it’s a good story based on non fighters calling these men cowards. No fight is a coward or a bum this is the fist thing people need to understand. Let’s talk about the fighters. When any boxer comments to this sport . The first thing he really understands is he is signing up for a life of ups and downs a lot of cuts and bruse’s and yes the possibility of death. These are facts of this sport no one ever talks about it . You have to look into a fighters eyes to see it . It’s not fear it is the knowing that you may not walk out of this ring alive. A fighter never ask for anything but to be appreated and the chance to be call a champion that’s it. Sure your face may get disfigured your nose might not be in the same place your eye or eyes may not open all the way you may have cuts where there should not be cuts you may lose some teeth your speech may become slow you may not move with the ease you once did your memory may be shot. Non of this matters to a fighter he excepts this even death . The joy we get is when someone remembers the fights and calling us champ. We set around thinking about the battles we were in that gives us joy. A good trainer will know his fighter he knows how much he can take and when it’s time to call it a day. No trainer when I was coming up would even look at you if you had a reputation of quitting in a fight or would not fight after you had been matched to fight someone. Boxing is not for everyone . Boxing writers need to inform the public just like you just did about what they are seeing, about the terrible judging we have been seeing. I played football very well but it is nothing compared to boxing as far as the contact is concerned 99% of NFL players would never make it as a top notch fighter and 90% of boxers would never make it in the NFL two totally different sports.Boxing is live drama life and death.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:09 pm 


Tomato Can

Safety first fighters are considered cowards and boring all the time. And one diminsional fighters are often called bums. Fighters with more than one knock out loss, are often called china chins/glass jaws and tomato cans. These terms have been used by fans, since way before my time. But I’m sure most would think twice about using these terms, after seening some of the fallen heros of this sport. I started using my name, as a joke, many years ago now. Sometime’s I think about changing it, as it may offend some. But then again, I guess it really depends on how you look at it, becasue at the same time, I could be saying, I was never as good as the fighters that get analysed on this site.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:09 pm 


rjack58

…OR Roach with Pacquiao!

Posted November 4, 2013 1:08 pm 


moonshineman

Good article. I wish Margarito would have read this before he fought Pacquiao. Garcia kept sending Margarito into the ring against Pacquiao with a crushed Orbital bone. Margarito wanted to quit. I hope Gracia doesn’t do the same thing with Rios.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:06 pm 


rjack58

Mago PROBABLY should’ve QUIT on his stool – he was HURT during the 1st round.

Posted November 4, 2013 1:05 pm 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to EZ E

Thank you for the magnificent article. It was the best I ever read here, or anywhere else. Kudos!

Posted November 4, 2013 1:03 pm 


srminimo

Kid Blast- I don’t believe Old Yank is talking about everybody, but we do get to see and hear a lot more fools now that the Internet gives a voice to whoever wants to spit their venom out there. It’s great to have this forum where we can share our love of boxing, but you can’t deny there’s a lot of hatred and ignorance going around too. Guys like you and EZ, who respect fighters and understand the ruthlessness of the game are not necessarily in the majority.

Posted November 4, 2013 12:55 pm 


jonics

In this brutal sports we all love, sometimes it takes more guts and courage to quit than to continue. Case in point – Magomed “Mago” Abdulsalamov was recently in a medically induced coma after a blood clot was removed from his brain after his brutal fight with Mike Perez. Mago could have quit on his stool if he chose to and not continue with the fight, and anyone calling him a coward if Mago had decided to do so, would need to have their brains themselves examined.

Posted November 4, 2013 12:53 pm 


Kid Blast

” In an age of increasing shock-jock mentality, fighters, journalists, broadcasters and fans alike have blurred the line between raw emotion and disrespect to the point of finding it hard at times to distinguish between the two”

Speak for yourself Old Yank. My moral compass on this issue is pointing in the right direction. I call no fighter a coward. Never have. Never will. And that’s the point of EZ Z’s message.

Posted November 4, 2013 12:43 pm 


Kid Blast

Old Yank , WTF are you talking about. You have vilified fighters more that just about any poster I know. I am not holding that against you, but please, for those of us who choose not to call fighters bums, stiffs, or tomato cans, don’t even begin to try to tell us we are being sanctimonious.

You want to refer to a fighter as a bum like Merchant, have at it. It’s not my thang.

Posted November 4, 2013 12:39 pm 


no clue

I never call any fighter a coward… but at very rare times I’m sorely tempted to do so … I’m, for one, 100 percent positive that Kermit Cintron jumped out of the ring vs. Paul Wiliams and then faked injury to get an easy way out… I would not call it cowardice.. mental fragility would be a better term, but still… There is a big gap between being hurt and not wanting to get damaged more and flat-out phony ass bail-out

Posted November 4, 2013 12:18 pm 


rjack58

Old Yank,

Almost as WELL SAID as this article…

Posted November 4, 2013 12:13 pm 


Old Yank

Indeed corners can be braver than fighters…and writers smarter than fans.

…but let’s also be careful not to stab the fan in the heart either. “Ragging” on pros in every sport is a time-honored tradition. And let’s not forget that a match-maker in boxing can be so cute that it is difficult to distinguish match-making from a fighter looking like he’s ducking, avoiding, delaying and more — all to the frustration of fans simply wanting what boxing fans want; the best fighting the best. Frustration can evoke emotion; emotion can evoke “ragging”.

Although not “perfected” as an art form until the Golden Era of Heavyweights by Ali, trash-talking about an opponent has been around for a long, long time (calling it an “art form” is potentially offensive to many). And language in journalism and broadcasting, the likes of that used by Larry Merchant, has been around for a long while too. In an age of increasing shock-jock mentality, fighters, journalists, broadcasters and fans alike have blurred the line between raw emotion and disrespect to the point of finding it hard at times to distinguish between the two.

I’ve use words in anger and raised my voice with disrespectful language when emotion has gotten the best of me. But she’s my wife of 44 years and I love her like nothing I’ve ever loved in my life. I respect her like nothing I’ve ever respected in my life. Let not my heart be only judged by the worst my emotions display.

My point?

I love the sentiment behind this article by EZ E. What he said needs to be said from time to time because fans, fighters, writers and more can go over the top and someone needs to call them on it. But calling out the hand that feeds the dog is best done in the manner of this article — a personal perspective that we all can relate to; too broad a brush poignancy can be lost in generalizations. After all, there is a fine (if not too often blurred) line between fans being fans and fans being disrespectful. And there is always room for increasing attention to respect in a world gone mad.

Posted November 4, 2013 12:05 pm 


Tomato Can

EZE, thanks for the thoughtful article.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:53 am 


Old Yank

EZ E — Bitter sweet piece; full of raw emotion. I loved it.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:35 am 


Kid Blast

Norymberga , sometimes the corner is braver than the fighter and that’s when a tragedy can really happen.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:25 am 


Kid Blast

EZ has been there and done that

Posted November 4, 2013 11:24 am 


Kid Blast

There is an old…. typo

Posted November 4, 2013 11:23 am 


Kid Blast

This is an old article on the Huffington post by Jim Lampley that has always helped get me through boxing tragedies. Applying it’s thesis, the Frankie Leal tragedy was one in which the moral compass was pointed in the wrong direction and Frankie should never have been allowed to be in that ring. Same goes for Danny Williams tonight when he fights Oleg Maskaev in Russia.
The article is called “A Death in the Ring” but ESB does not allow links to be posted so you will have to find it yourself.

When we refer to fighters as stiff, bums, or tomato cans as Larry Merchant frequently did, we build a level of journalistic acceptance that borders on calling them cowards. Many boxing writers are nerds, tweaks and twits who would run at the first hint of trouble, yet behind the safety of keyboard, they are able to insult those who risk their lives and provide the grist for these a-holes to write in the first place, That’s why this one is so relevant. EZ has been their and done it.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:23 am 


Anonymous

Finally. A thread that talks about boxing with respect, thank you everyone.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:15 am 


Norymberga

A fighter who’s truly a coward wouldn’t even step into the ring, but find some excuse, fake injury or similar. And even a fighter who does step into the ring, but doesn’t really want to fight, could take a dive on first occation. If Stevens would have stayed down in the 2nd round, noone would think he took a dive, right? But he got up and lasted quite a few rounds more, taking a fearce beating in the process, but never went down again. This is guts and courage in its purest form. He never gave up, that’s what his corner is for, to protect the fighter when he’s got enough. Sometimes it needs much more bravery to say I’m finished, I can’t fight anymore, then to fight on and risk permanent damage.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:14 am 


Kid Blast

Beautiful job me hermano, beautiful. Especially the ending.

Paret took seventeen unanswered shots (or maybe it was 23), and Ernie Knox, Laverne Roach, Davey Moore, Kim, Enrico Bertola, Johnny Owens, Jimmy Garcia, Willie Classen, Young Ali, Frankie Campbell, Randi Carver, Stephan Johnson, Bobby Tomasello, Felix “The Hammer” Bwalya, Masatate Tsuji, Miguel “El Huracan” Barrera , Beethoven Scottland, Leavander Johnson, “Pancho” Moncivias, Benjamin Flores, Francisco “Paco” Rodriguez, Frankie Leal and too many others left their lives in the ring. It takes only one punch.

Posted November 4, 2013 11:03 am 


murderman

Mad props to any man that gets in the ring and box. Boxed as a kid and it is by far the most difficult sport of all! That why i chose football! Lol. Was good enough to play for the university of louisville cardinals in the mid 90’s. Good at football, sucked at boxing. So to all the past, present, and current fighters. Much respect! God bless!

Posted November 4, 2013 10:54 am 


Prof Konje

Thanks for an excellent article. Truer words were never spoken. Yes, often I have a preferred boxer who I want to win, but at the same time I do not want to see anyone permanently injured. I have often said that a boxer’s corner could get him killed. A sad thing is that if a boxer isn’t a “name” or doesn’t have the “pull” to pick and choose whose in his corner, he sometimes gets those who really do not care enough or who are wise enough to stop the fight. It’s a tough, brutal sport but no one should be expected to die for the pleasure of others.

Posted November 4, 2013 10:51 am 


EZ E

MURDERMAN Thanks! As for myself, we will later. Peace!

Posted November 4, 2013 10:45 am 


murderman

@ ez e – damn good article sir! We as fight fans should be more cautious in referring to fighters as cowards or quiters. No one should die in the ring! And fighters at times must have people on their team to love them enough to save them from themselves. Ez e can you please tell me a little more about you and your career sir?

Posted November 4, 2013 10:40 am 


EZ E

TJ Thanks for your (and others as well) kind words. You mentioned the old timers Ike Williams, Joe “old Bones” Brown and other lightweights from the 40s, 50s & 60s. I feel the same. I have lots copies of the original telecasts of fights of Brown, Ike, Wallace “Bud” Smith, Carlos Ortiz, Kenny Lane, Orlando Zulueta, Art (The Original Golden Boy) Aragon, Percy Bassett, Jimmy Carter, Paolo Rossi, Frankie Ryff, Ismael Laguna… I have a rather extensive boxing magazine collection. On my desk I happen to have a copy of the November/1947 ring Magazine with Bob Montgomery vs Beau Jack on the cover. They fought a couple of months earlier in a non-title 10 round bout, the gate was over $35.000. The fighters donated their WHOLE purses to the War Bond Fund. Deeds totally UN-heard of these days. Not too many years later Beau Jack was shining shoes, ill, reportedly seen looking in trash cans… and forgotten. Anyway, I have well over a dozen of original Bobby Chacon fights, too. Bobby was a true classic!! Do you collect fights? Peace!

Posted November 4, 2013 10:36 am 


Punch

Well worded and factual, keep up the good work.

Posted November 4, 2013 10:19 am 


big moe

Good read. Every fighter knows their limit and shouldnt let anyone tell them otherwise. Some of our favorite fights can barely speak are vegetables or broke. One punch to the head is all it takes. Look what happened to greg page and meldrick taylor. Its keyboard gangsters that make silly statements.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:59 am 


TJ

A GOOD EXAMPLE of the corner saving their fighter for another day is that of the GGG vs CURTIS STEVENS fight, where the corner told the ref SHOWTIME had had enough.
He could probably have survived another round, but would have taken another shellacking. But, with a few months total rest he can be eased back and on this showing deserves another chance to get back into the title mix.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:36 am 


rjack58

Abdusalimov’s career is probably over!! He was taking a beating from the 1st round to the last. It didn’t look like Perez was doing that much damage but after all these are heavyweights and the aftermath says it all. Hope Abdusalimov recovers and moves forwards with his lifr.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:24 am 


wearerofallthebelts

Agreed TJ… it was a brutal fight. They say he went to the hospital for his broken hand and nose and they discovered a clot in his brain during examination. His handlers feel confident he’ll be okay but we all know that’s some serious stuff. I too wish him well.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:22 am 


TJ

wearerofallthebelts:

I saw the PEREZ fight on Sunday morning after I came back from the gym.
I did not know Abdusalimov was in a coma (medically induced)! This was a very good and very hard fight for both guys, who showed so much heart and commitment to their cause and as you say let’s the public know that BOXING is a SERIOUS BUSINESS and not a game to be played at.

I hope he pulls through and still has a career.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:19 am 


mack

This was a very good article. People, even boxers, don’t appreciate the toll that this game takes on minds and bodies. No one knows what another person is feeling, and no prize fight is worth dying for.
It is hard for a fighter to quit, so it is troubling to see cornermen who keep sending out a damaged fighter on the chance he might pull out a win. This weekend, we saw two corners. Stevens’ people got it right.
He gave it a shot, but he was taking punishment, and he had had enough. His corner saw it, called the ref over and pulled him out. Mago fought well, kept trying to catch Perez, but his face was misshapen and there was, obviously, a significant injury. He got through it, but at what price? Wouldn’t it be better to call it off and fight another day? The fighter won’t make that call, his corner has to do it for him.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:19 am 


TJ

EZ-E SHOULD TAKE THIS ARTICLE and wave it under the nose of some of the other journos and let them know this is the standard of journalism we are looking for here on ESB and not the rehashed nonsense we get on so many other occasions.

Well done!

This is a piece we can keep referring back to as it is thought provoking and relevant and will still be relevant 10 years from today, whereas the other pieces will be just GARBAGE!!!!

Posted November 4, 2013 9:16 am 


wearerofallthebelts

Well written and eerily timed article after Saturday nights scary HW fight that left Abdusalamov in a medical induced coma. I think he’ll be okay but it was another reminder of how brutal this sport is and makes us fans take a hard look at who and what we cheer for. It’s a difficult sport to be a fan of sometimes. Thanks for reminding us to take a moment and ponder the reality. Great work.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:16 am 


rjack58

THIS is the BEST article of them ALL! Thanks for writing it EZ E!!

Posted November 4, 2013 9:14 am 


TJ

DMX

Great point about DENNIS ANDRIES….

I totally idolised the KRONK GYM and MANNY STEWARD in Detroit as a child and had delusions of one day being good enough to be allowed to box for them. But, it was all a pipe dream.

HILMER KENTY
TOMMY HEARNS
MIKE MCCALLUM
MICHAEL MOORER
LEEONZER BARBER
JIMMY PAUL
STEVE McCRORY (RIP)
MILTON McCRORY
DUANE THOMAS
FRANK TATE
TONY TUCKER
MARK BRELAND

The above are just some of the guys at Kronk when I was at school…
If I sat down and really had a proper think I could come up with a whole lot more, but the above is not a bad list

My favourites after HITMAN had to be little STEVE McCRORY who I loved watching in the 1984 OLYMPICS… It was so sad to hear of his death a few years later!!! I too followed the career of JIMMY PAUL as he was a Lightweight and he had a few decent scraps, became world champion, but could have been so much more…..

GREAT FIGHTERS, GREAT DAYS!

Posted November 4, 2013 9:12 am 


Albeziel

BRAVO!!!

Posted November 4, 2013 9:11 am 


Limeyjay

Great article…..I wrote something like this not so long ago on one of the threads on this site.
A while back I watched cotto and margarito sat at a table after their first fight, and just prior to their second discussing their upcoming bout.
Margo was calling cotto a coward for quitting in their first bout….he proclaimed that he is ready to die in the ring.
Cotto replied that boxing is his job, he has a beautiful wife and four beautiful children, he is not willing to die in the ring….who in their right mind wants to go to work and die.

Would your postman risk his life posting letters if their was a very real chance the mailbox might explode once touched, of course he wouldn,t …why should a boxer be expected to die in the ring, rather than quit and live to fight another day, if that’s what he chooses to do then who are we to judge .
That’s not what I watch boxing for, I want to see a good fight…but if one guy thinks that he has had enough , that he is getting hurt and and feels he cannot continue, then he is a brave man indeed.
Obviously some will resort to calling him a quitter or coward …..but I won’t that’s for sure.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:08 am 


BUSTAJAY

What a great summary for a great sport.
This article needs to be published worldwide about every three months just to remind some fans that this is a brutal sport and it takes guts to lace up the gloves and make the walk to the ring.
Thank you for bringing honor and truth into our lives today.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:05 am 


TJ

EZ-E

A really great piece of journalism, bringing the reality of boxing and particularly the aftermath of a career in boxing to the public at large.

I would like to see more of this superior piece of journalism here on ESB, which should be congratulated. It reminds me oof alot of the journalism by great writers in the style of Nat Fleisher, Hugh McIlvaney and many other venerable journalists, many since long gone….

Just like in everything in life there is always a downside and sometimes we need to ask ourselves is it worth it? And in some cases like the great JAKE LAMOTTA, I am certain he will say, “Yes, it was all worth it!”

Posted November 4, 2013 9:05 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan

In my opinion, Hearns´s absolute peak was when he destroyed Duran.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:03 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to TJ

Likewise :)

Posted November 4, 2013 9:02 am 


DMX

When Dennis Andries defended his title against Tommy, he was in awe of the man
When he lost, he packed his bags and headed to Detroits Kronk to train alongside Tommy and learn under Emanual
Andries worked hard improved and won his titles back
Can you imagine that happening now

This is the high esteem these guys were thought of by everyone in the fight game

Posted November 4, 2013 9:02 am 


TJ

BRAZILIAN BOXING FAN

I caught the boxing bug when I was three years old and caught my first fight on the box when Jim WATT fought the great ALEXIS ARGUELLO and have been a die heard fan ever since.

My mom stopped my pocket money when all I would do would be to spend it buying all the boxing magazines I could lay my hands on and then I graduated to buying VHS of the greats like SALVADOR SANCHEZ and the old LIGHTWEIGHTS (the division I boxed in as an amateur) of the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s.. I loved the likes of JOE GANS (pre-war), BOB MONTGOMERY, OLD BONES JOE BROWN, IKE WILLIAMS…

I love boxing and discussing it with other like-minded posters.

Good to talk with you BBF.

Posted November 4, 2013 9:00 am 


srminimo

Ez E- A beautifully written piece, my man. Congratulations. Most people don’t understand that even the fighters that leave the game with their “health” are seldom ever the same. I have good friends that look perfectly normal but either can’t hear out of one ear, don’t see well out of an eye, have memory loss, by the end had a cheek that would just swell up, have bouts with depression… It’s a rough life in and out. By the way, I’m sure I’m not the only one around here that would love to see some tape of you in action. Is it too much to ask if there’s any video online?

Posted November 4, 2013 8:59 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to TJ

You are very welcome.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:51 am 


TJ

THANKS BRAZILIAN BOXING FAN for confirming this…

I used to read RING MAGAZINE, KO Magz, Boxing Illustrated, Big Book of Boxing and several other titles in the early 1980’s, where the writing was absolutely brilliant and I seem to remember reading a piece on THE SCHOOLBOY from Bakersfield, California and I was lucky enough to see some of his great fights (not in person)…

THEY DON’T MAKE FIGHTERS LIKE THEM ANYMORE and in some ways it is a good thing… No one should die in a boxing ring doing what the love or should suffer horrible health problems after, but it happens and it’s very interesting that we had a young 26 year old man die in the ring a week or so ago and there was no mention anywhere on ESB.

This is a tragedy.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:50 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to TJ

I was born in 1989, I started to follow boxing on November 9, 1996, when Holyfield beat Tyson by TKO in round 11. Since then, I have seen many boxing fights, including the ones you mentioned, sir.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:47 am 


TJ

WHO WILL EVER FORGET:

HEARNS vs HAGLER
HEARNS vs CUEVAS
HEARNS vs LEONARD I
HEARNS vs SHULER (RIP)
HEARNS vs DURAN
HEARNS vs ANDRIES
HEARNS vs ROLDAN

even LEONARD II….

Tommy was never involved in bad fights… They all had twists and turns and made him the exciting fighter he was… even his boxing masterclasses vs BENITEZ and HILL

Posted November 4, 2013 8:45 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to TJ

Bobby Chacon´s first wife, Valerie, killed herself a few hours before Chacon was scheduled to fight Salvador Ugalde. In a tremendous demonstration of professionalism, Chacon fought and beat Ugalde by TKO in round 3.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:41 am 


TJ

DMX

You are correct about SRL, who outraged me as a young kid when he stole 2 belts in one fight with DONNY LALONDE, getting him to drop 8 pounds in order to fight him! (He nearly lost too, when the Blonde Bomber dropped him- would have served him right)!

HEARNS is my favourite fighter of all time and got me into the wonderful world of boxing! He never ducked anyone.

I know TARK will mention MIKE McCALLUM, but they were stablemates and HEARNS got the crack at DURAN, because it was commercially more sense for these two greats to meet rather than McCALLUM!

Posted November 4, 2013 8:40 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to DMX

I agree.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:37 am 


TJ

NO CLUE… OMG!!!

I just read the first line of your comment and the blood and guts bravery of Bobby Chacon immediately sprung to my mind as well!!! I even think he fought just days after the death of his wife (forgive me if this is wrong)?

These were a series of great, great fights in an era when the Super Featherweights were not only winning FOTY with regularity, but taking the positions 2,3 and 4 as well with the likes of CHACON, BOZA-EDWARDS, NAVARETTE, RAFAEL BAZOOK LIMON and others in the late 70’s and early 80’s…

I am lucky enough to have many chats with CORNY and he thank goodness is still very clear headed and physically fit enough to run marathons and it is after a few conversations with him over the last few years why I have written countless times on ESB to challenge all these posters who slate boxers, but have never dug into their own pockets to help the blood and guts fighters who are now down on their luck or fighting against pugilistic dementia or other related illnesses….

These guys are the modern gladiators who sate our thirst for absolute violence, yet get paid skant amounts to assist the suffering they will go through in later life, forgotten by us, just like our war heroes who risk and lay down their lives to make us free to criticise and moan as we sit on our behinds munching crisps and swilling beers!

Corny ran off a slew of fighters he had either fought or roomed with or were boxing in his day who were down on their luck, shuffling their feet, not knowing what day it was and were basically forgotten.

Calling boxers cowards is in itself a cowardly act by these couch potato posters….

I myself regularly spar 8 rounds at a time and am lucky enough to be adapt at defence to be able to do this at the level I compete without taking much punishment. I have a family and a regular job to protect, but enjoy the cut and thrust of boxing so much I can’t keep away, but I understand my first priority is to provide for my family and keep them safe. Therefore, my first love of boxing is a balancing act between my responsibilities to my family and ensuring my and my opponent’s safety is paramount!

Posted November 4, 2013 8:36 am 


DMX

Totally
Leonard managed to scrape a draw despite been down twice
Hearns was gutted that night, he really wanted redemption
I think every boxing fan has a place for Tommy Hearns in their hearts
Have never really heard many bad words said about him
A true Gentleman and gave it absolutely everything from Welter to Light Heavy and watered down versions of the Cruiserweight division
A fantastic example of a Legendary Fighter and Champion

Posted November 4, 2013 8:33 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan to DMX

I agree. By the way, I believe Hearns beat Leonard on their second fight. That was no draw. Even Leonard later admitted it.

Posted November 4, 2013 8:16 am 


SIL

Exellent article! take note all you mtv boxing fans; there is no such thing as a coward that steps between the ropes and does combat, no matter what level they compete at, once again author, well done for such a sensible article!!!

Posted November 4, 2013 8:14 am 


DMX

Yep remember Tommy fighting “the Heat” in his campaign with Sugar Ray of belt collecting through the different weights
Like his fight with Juan Roldan what great nights those were

IMO The Hit Mans achievements in these different weight divisions was superior to Ray Leonard’s
who seemed to cherry pick, drop belts, not defend and seemed an originator of the “Catchweight” contest

Posted November 4, 2013 8:10 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan

Today is the 25th anniversary of the Thomas Hearns-James Kinchen fight. Hearns won by Majority Decision after 12 rounds and became the WBO´s first World Champion ever. He became the WBO World Super-Middleweight Champion and the first boxer ever to become a Champion in five different weight categories.

Posted November 4, 2013 7:51 am 


psy

great work

Posted November 4, 2013 7:33 am 


DMX

Very respectful
Well done

Hopefully certain posters on this site will read
and refrain from using certain terms and phrases so flippantly

Posted November 4, 2013 7:30 am 


Paul

Great article. I was stopped twice in my boxing career and while humiliated I quickly learnt that if I was as brave as those watching I would have got up and won. No heart, glass jaw I heard it all, from people who had never laced on a glove.

Posted November 4, 2013 7:20 am 


Brazilian Boxing Fan

Great article.

Posted November 4, 2013 7:01 am 


Anonymous

Well said sir

Posted November 4, 2013 6:39 am 


urone2

Great article, I wish some of the fans on this site read it and learn to have a litle more respect for the Boxers who enter he ring. How can you even attempt to form the word coward on your lips when mentioning any boxers, from the best to the worst. I boxed a little when I was young, I had more street fights than boxing matches, and have had my butt woopt in both. It’s not the way I wanted to make a living so me in respect to any boxer have to hold the flag of cowardous. I hold my flag and admire the brave as they apply their trade of boxing.

Posted November 4, 2013 6:34 am 


no clue

Great piece EZ E … I hardly finished the first paragraph before I’ve come up with a mind image of Bobby Chacon … The School Boy was one of the few fighters at that high elite pugilistic level who never quit … no matter how much punishment he was taking… when he was a on a roll and raking in dough there were friends – hangers-on surrounding him.. now.. he suffers from pugilistica dementia and gathers cans to make both ends meet…

Posted November 4, 2013 5:22 am 



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