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Horace McGuinna’s Ghost

Gonzo walks into a bar and sees Tark talking to the bartender

Tark sees Gonzo and unloads the shotgun into him, killing him

Tark invokes “Stand Your Ground” defense and is aquitted on all charges to wild cheering right wing hoards

The next day George Zimmerman is shot dead. With his dying breath GZ says, “Bury me next to Gonzo”

Posted August 25, 2013 10:08 pm 



Posted August 25, 2013 2:20 pm 



there was a question for you, I guess on page 4, the top hw of the last 21 years ago vs today’s top 10.

Posted August 25, 2013 1:34 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Tark walks into a bar

Bartender says: ”What can I get you, sir?”

Tark replies: ”You can get your Johnson out quick sharp’

Bartender replies: ”I think you’d better leave”

Tark say: ”You see this shotgun?

Posted August 25, 2013 11:27 am 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Yes, seriously Brother. You guessed correct. Gonzo never lies when he’s telling the truth. ;)

Posted August 25, 2013 11:23 am 


Correctamundo! Gonzo is Ghost Rider.

500,000 ESB ranking points for Anonymous


Posted August 24, 2013 7:54 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

– 250,000 ESB ranking points from Brother Tark’s tally for insulting a Tier Two poster after the witching hour.

Posted August 24, 2013 7:38 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Could Gonzo and Tark be one and the same I wonder? Hmmm

Posted August 24, 2013 7:37 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

But who is Gonzo? Hmmm

Posted August 24, 2013 7:36 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Correctamundo! Gonzo is Ghost Rider.

500,000 ESB ranking points for Anonymous

Posted August 24, 2013 7:35 pm 


Nope.., Ghost Rider is Idiot Ernie

Posted August 24, 2013 1:50 pm 


Gonzo you are Ghost Rider, right??

Posted August 24, 2013 1:40 pm 


Hamster.., I believe in styles. Styles are merely strengths. An all-around great boxer developed every single technical skill there is. A guy who relies on his opponent getting tired punching him, or who relies on his punching power and ability to absorb punches to win savage exchanges, is going to have a shorter career.

Abraham actually outboxed Ward in the 1st round of their fight, but his boxing skills are so crude that Ward soon fashioned solutions.

Sometimes it takes a lot of discussion to get a tough, powerful kid interested in the technical aspects of the game. But everyone is interested in outsmarting people. Everyone is interested in having better defensive skills than their opponents. Everyone is interested in tricking people and nailing them with counter punches. It’s a matter of motivating them to put the work in. You see a smile creep over a kid’s face when something works in a sparring session.

Posted August 24, 2013 11:50 am 


What’s about the tark/herron challenge now???

Posted August 24, 2013 9:24 am 


Floyd has all the boxing traces on his face. The nose deviation, puffy eyes, scar tissue at the right places. His traces are less visible but are no less numerous than average. Hidalgo/Herron turn it loose, the false claim I mean. Come clean, you’ll feel better.

Posted August 24, 2013 8:06 am 


It`s not that you CAN`T teach a boxer something, it`s that it isn`t the optimum use of the time you do have to be concentrating on things they aren`t going to meaningfully incorporate.

Some people are better suited to using certain skills, and by nature of their utilising those skills more in a fight, people will make a comment on their style. That doesn`t mean it is the only thing they can do, it`s just the best way them currently have of using their attributes.

If a guy didn`t have great speed and reactions you wouldn`t send them to someone like Brendan Ingle, he`d get them killed fighting with their hands down. Maybe they`d master it eventually through developing their timing, but they`d master a style more suited to them much faster.

Posted August 24, 2013 3:18 am 


Hamster…., “You wouldn`t try to teach Arthur Abraham the classic Brendan Ingle style, it simply doesn`t suit his strengths”

I would teach AA a proper stance … and to stop hiding behind his gloves. Fundamental changes that Steward painstakingly taught Wladimir K.

It’s a little late for AA but his stance needs to be loosened up… the gloves moved away from his face… his feet and torso positioned correctly… the knees softened to improve his mobility… His footwork needs tons of work… His jab needs to be more effortless, accurate, and lengthened, so guys like Froch can’t jab him to death with impunity. T

The idea that some boxers can’t be taught a stance, or aren’t fast enough to learn to parry, slip, duck, and roll punches—or counterpunch, is nonsense. It’s a matter of scientific form and execution—and then drilling until you master a skill. If you can’t do it you shouldn’t box at all—but there is nothing wrong with Arthur Abraham’s speed per se.

And I don’t look for points to debate people on… I pass on tons of stuff that is totally bogus because I don’t have the time to critique it… But if I see something that begs correction because it’s stereotypical BS—and if I have a an extra minute, I often lend some meaningful enlightenment.

Posted August 24, 2013 2:21 am 


Ernie…, You think of me all the time… I’m your whole day.

Posted August 24, 2013 2:19 am 


If that did happen, RIP,

Posted August 23, 2013 10:24 pm 


Tbone the poster on this site, is he really dead, it rings true because he was an amateur Canadian boxer, got shot somewhere in russia or something, I looked it up.

Posted August 23, 2013 9:16 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Tark I think of you each time I get a bad cutoff…

Posted August 23, 2013 8:59 pm 


I do take my analysis and predictions seriously… In the context of being a comment board poster and not an author.

If I’m writing an informative article, particularly if a very popular website is publishing my article and paying me, I want it to be that much better. I don’t want 50,000 people to read it, and do a schlock job of it — or put something out there like dashing off an email to my mechanic telling him to get the smog check done.

Posted August 23, 2013 7:02 pm 

turbo hamster

TARK I thought you DO take your analysis and predictions serious??? that’s what you said to herron a few days ago.

Posted August 23, 2013 6:36 pm 


fake turbo hamster…

Posted August 23, 2013 6:15 pm 


Hamster.., That is my offer.. They can afford me. If I write for publication I want to be paid … and ESB has the money to pay.

If I’m writing for fun I’ll do it all day long. It doesn’t mean crap if I’m right or wrong. I don’t think I’m going to be wrong but it’s not serious if I am. I don’t really have to triple check sources and don’t have to do the dirty work of calling combatants, trainers, and sparring partners who don’t return calls. I can just just guess, “Haye’s going to win by KO in the 9th” and be done with it.

A lot of boxing writers don’t know what questions to ask or what a good stance, left hook, or defense looks like, so it’s more fun to rip apart their analysis. Plus, most fights are easy to pick, but the winner of this one is tough. Writing an accurate analysis would be very tough work and it deserves compensation.

Posted August 23, 2013 5:54 pm 


“I know a boxer when I see one,” So, just looking at Herron you can tell he’s never boxed? How do you do that? My money says that if you never heard of Floyd Mayweather Jr. you wouldn’t know he’s a boxer. His nose isn’t deformed, he doesn’t have tons of scarring around his eyes, he doesn’t have cauliflower ears. To the ordinary person, Floyd just looks like a very fit man.

I’m guessing you’re basing your “knowledge” on photos of Herron that you’ve seen. But no, I couldn’t tell you were being sarcastic. But again, I ask you, what proof do you have that Herron is lying about his boxing experience? I haven’t heard of anyone in the boxing world calling him out on it.

Posted August 23, 2013 5:12 pm 

turbo hamster

tark… are happy to write thousands of words in the comments section without getting paid. you make predictions in the comments without making phonecalls. herron DOES make the calls yet you treat his work with contempt. none of your excuses or conditions really fit with what we usually see from you. you just want to counter punch herron but now he’s forcing you to lead you are lost.

Posted August 23, 2013 5:02 pm 


Ernie.., When I call you an insignificant piece of dog crap … I do it under my name.

Posted August 23, 2013 5:00 pm 



Posted August 23, 2013 4:58 pm 


tARK Bluesman post for you…top hw of 21 years…

Posted August 23, 2013 3:05 pm 


Ernie again

Posted August 23, 2013 2:50 pm 


Tark is big idiot. He always talks more bullcrap than anyone else here. He make me laugh every time he write his rubbish. I never believe word he say.

Posted August 23, 2013 2:35 pm 


Hidalgo, if you did not see the sarcasm in “I’ll tell everyone” written on a comment board, you probably don’t know what sarcasm is. Don’t defend a pretender, I know a boxer when I see one, this one isn’t even close. Herron has no boxing experience. You can’t buy that on Ebay

Posted August 23, 2013 2:31 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Oh golly gee, you really got me on that one…

Posted August 23, 2013 2:00 pm 


Like your comments do … LMAO

Posted August 23, 2013 1:37 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Blah blah blah, it just doesn’t matter really…

Posted August 23, 2013 12:38 pm 


BTW Joseph, were you an Army Ranger? Just curious. My older brother was with the Screaming Eagles, then the Green Beret.

Posted August 23, 2013 11:48 am 


“Admit it or I will tell everyone that you make false claims about yourself so that you can reinforce other false claims you make about other people.”

You just did “tell everyone,” Rebel. So what. What do you do, or have you done, in boxing, that qualifies you to call Herron a liar? BTW, all you have to do to get any credibility around here is PROVE Joseph is a liar. Can you do that? Anyone can make accusations. Prove it.

Posted August 23, 2013 11:47 am 


When Mayweather leans to use that shoulder roll Canelo should punch the elbow to bring his arm down and throw a straight. Quick jabs followed by a straight seem to be Mayweathers weakness. Watch the Cotto, fight. Cotto was using his jab to set up his punches.

Posted August 23, 2013 9:24 am 

Joseph Herron

Lol…Liebuster, or whoever you are,

I don’t pretend nor do I condescend…what level of experience are you looking for? Have I boxed? Yes

Do i have skills? Yes

can I whip your ass? I’m going to try if you ever have the ba!!s to disclose your identity.

Anyone who has known me for a substancial amount of time will tell you that i can still move and have skills.

Show yourself, coward!!

Posted August 23, 2013 9:05 am 


floyd is just a great fighter ,knows when to back of ,knows when to step in,,always trying to diss the king of the ring ,i mean,canelo has a good chance of knocking him out,but i dont give him but 38% chance of that

Posted August 23, 2013 8:58 am 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

BS?? I’m not trying to impress anyone. I’m just sharing something godly with my Earth brethren.

Sometimes I just like to put on my cans and listen to beautiful music while I watch the vultures soar in the skies above me, and music doesn’t get anymore beautiful than the dulcet tones the Maestro Kenny G can conjure from his soprano sax.

Posted August 23, 2013 8:56 am 


Take it easy Joseph, the question is whether you had boxing experience not whether you were a smart boy or whether you had facial damage. You have already answered that – you have no boxing experience. This does not make you a lesser fan or writer. Just stop pretending and condescending. You are just a fan with a keen interest and you are fun to chat with about boxing.

Posted August 23, 2013 8:54 am 



“Mayweather-Canelo is a NON-EVENT!!! Mayweather Jr. should fight GGG next!!!”

goat – You take prize for being total idiot. Stop posting comments here. You are not intelligent enough to join in any conversation about anything. It is clear you have brain of baby goat. All of Russia laugh at you.

Posted August 23, 2013 8:46 am 

de Lima I.

“Mayweather-Canelo is a NON-EVENT!!! Mayweather Jr. should fight GGG next!!!”

Don’t be ridiculous. FMJ’s not going to try to win the MW title — he’s not a fool.

Posted August 23, 2013 8:36 am 


and who are you trying to impress with that romantic bs???

Posted August 23, 2013 8:30 am 

Joseph Herron


Posted August 23, 2013 8:29 am 

Joseph Herron


F*** You!!

What the he!! are you refering to? Did I ever fight for the WBC Junior Welterweight title? No

But did I spar for several years while I was in my early twenties? Yes.

Did I get my nose busted up and suffer nerve damage while being stupid and fighting with no head gear, with 8 oz gloves in the early 90’s? Yes.

If have the nerve to challenge my integrity, have the ba!!s to disclose your identity…you can email me at [email protected] if you don’t have the brass to announce it on this forum!!

Posted August 23, 2013 8:28 am 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

Because the G-man is in da house.

Posted August 23, 2013 8:23 am 


Why so romantic GONZO? LOL

Posted August 23, 2013 8:22 am 


Joseph, set yourself free from your lie and tell the truth. You have no boxing experience. Admit it or I will tell everyone that you make false claims about yourself so that you can reinforce other false claims you make about other people.

Posted August 23, 2013 8:18 am 

Joseph Herron

Thanks for the Casey Kasem flashback, brother!!

Are you going to showcase “Putting on the Ritz” by Taco next?

Posted August 23, 2013 8:07 am 



Posted August 23, 2013 7:59 am 


Mayweather-Canelo is a NON-EVENT!!! Mayweather Jr. should fight GGG next!!!

Posted August 23, 2013 7:45 am 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

“Songbird” is a song by Kenny G, and the third single from his 1986 album Duotones. It reached #3 on the U.S. Adult Contemporary charts, #4 on the U.S. Hot 100 charts and #23 on the U.S. Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs.[1]

When released in 1987, the song became the first instrumental to reach the top 40 of the Billboard Hot 100 since the “Miami Vice Theme” by Jan Hammer (a No. 1 hit) in 1985.

Posted August 23, 2013 6:55 am 

de Lima I.

“Yeah, Hearns and Hagler were great heavyweights,
please tell us more…”

Ha ha ha!

Posted August 23, 2013 5:04 am 

de Lima I.

“Izabel” is a troll.

Tj alias Simon thanks, but no thanks.

Posted August 23, 2013 4:25 am 

Joseph Herron


That message wasn’t so happy!!

Go to therapy much?

Posted August 23, 2013 4:01 am 

Joseph Herron


I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that you’re picking Haye, right?

lol…can’t wait to read that, brother!! lol

Posted August 23, 2013 3:46 am 



Posted August 23, 2013 3:29 am 


I’ll write an article on Haye-Fury. That one is EASY. You can bet that my final prediction will be CORRECT.

Posted August 23, 2013 3:02 am 


Write an Article!! Otherwise it’s NO challenge!!

Posted August 23, 2013 2:39 am 


Herr – face it u r rubbish n shud give up writing, will nt b missed.

Posted August 23, 2013 2:04 am 


Joseph Herron, come clean about your fake boxing experience. You never had a real fight against a real opponent. Lying about it puts in doubt every other claim you make as a fan/writer/reporter. You are your own enemy when you lie and flush your efforts down the drain, Admit it and be a man about it, your ridiculous false pretense is destroying your credibility.

Posted August 23, 2013 1:31 am 

te tumbo

the entire challenge goes out the window on Tark’s terms. it’s just another . . . post. get into the spirit of things or just bow out gracefully . . . even though it’s kind of too late for even that(?!).

Posted August 23, 2013 1:28 am 

te tumbo

“Don’t you ever get tired of being a side-buster?” OHH-hh?! Rimshot! 1 . . . 2 . . . 3 . . . 4 . . . [A-MA-rate Cabron!] . . . 5 . . . 6 . . . 7 . . .

Posted August 23, 2013 1:26 am 


Well, you know Tark, even though Kovalev was favored to beat Cleverly, I thought Cleverly would try to outbox him and basically stay away from his power. I thought if he did that he had a chance to beat Kovalev. Of course that is what I said before the fight. He didn’t do that at all. Still, I think Kovalev has a while to go before he proves himself as being great.

Posted August 23, 2013 12:54 am 

Joseph Herron


If I simply write the article and you have cart blanche on criticisms, how is that different from what usually happens on this site?

Posted August 23, 2013 12:47 am 

Joseph Herron


You know that’s not the point of this challenge, brother.

I, along with many posters on this site, are curious how you would fully analyze a match-up without anything to criticize or compare your findings to.

It’s very simple to criticize someone else’s work, but it’s an entirely different animal to build an entertaining article that educates the casual fight fan and excites them about the upcoming match-up.

I just want you to experience what a lot of hard working writers have to go through on a regular basis. Maybe you’ll actually gain some respect and humilty while enduring the entire process.

But if you’re not up for the challenge, just say so, brother.

Posted August 23, 2013 12:45 am 


Herron…, If you do it my way you have a 75% chance of winning.. If you’re right in your analysis and I’m forced to agree with you… you were first with the story … so you win in a way.

If you’re right in your analysis and I disagree… you win.

If you’re wrong in your analysis and I agree with you… I have egg on my face, and that’s still a victory of sorts for you … because it looks like I had a case of “me tooism” that went off the rails.

If you’re wrong in your analysis and I’m right… That’s really the only way I can win conclusively… Of course that has happened before so you’d think the odds would catch up with me sooner or later.

Posted August 23, 2013 12:18 am 

Joseph Herron


That’s exactly why I initially recommended “Matthysse/Garcia” for Tark’s pepsi challenge.

I still think he should have to “nut up” and write his own article to be published under a pseudonym…Mark would have no problem publishing that.

C’mon, Tark…it’ll be fun, brother!!

Posted August 22, 2013 11:57 pm 

Joseph Herron

Lol!! Turbo,

That is too funny…why don’t you call into the show when he’s on “The Pugilist KOrner” in two weeks?

I’m sure you can speak on behalf of all of your peeps here on ESB, brother!! Lol!!

Great stuff!!

Posted August 22, 2013 11:54 pm 


@Herron – if you happen to interview Angel Garcia in the lead up to the Matthyse fight, we (ESB’s vulture enthusiasts) have a request.

We`ll send you a pair of knuckledusters with “Vulture Awareness Day” printed on it in reverse.

If you could please use it to punch Angel Garcia HARD in the forehead, so that he is permanently imprinted with news of this important ornithological event that would be greatly appreciated.

Obviously we`ll indemnify you against any criminal proceedings resulting from what I think we all agree will be a deserved and humane act.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:14 pm 


Fury-Haye isn`t going to be hard at all. You can write hundreds of words of analysis, but it`ll come down to Haye having a look at Fury’s speed, then following a sloppy jab from Fury back in with a big right hand straight down the pipe.

Haye likes to draw mistakes and openings from his opponent, and Fury likes to hand them out like candy.

Haye boxes to a plan, Fury throws his plans out the window and brawls when his jab isn`t working.

I see it as a matter of will Haye knock Fury out before he gets tired of punching him in the face and getting leant on.

My unequivocal prediction would be yes – probably in the mid rounds.

Haye KO or TKO6.

The Matthysse-Garcia fight though – much more intriguing..

Posted August 22, 2013 11:06 pm 

Joseph Herron


I just finished up “the sports krib” at 11PM EST, what did I miss?

have we convinced TARK to pen his own article under a pseudonym yet?

Posted August 22, 2013 11:03 pm 


BOXING history!!!! FO ERNIE!!!!!!!!!

Posted August 22, 2013 10:25 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Yeah, Hearns and Hagler were great heavyweights, please tell us more…

Posted August 22, 2013 10:20 pm 


I can teach you all you need to know about HW history…about Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Hearns, Hagler,etc.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:17 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Going around the question as usual. You’re like the Eric Holder of ESB…

Posted August 22, 2013 10:15 pm 


Ernie.., Everyone knows you’re a piece of lying dog crap.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:09 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Thanks for driving my point home once again Tard, you will only critique others. Twisting words and being a spin hack is just business as usual for bleeding heart liberal losers such as you.
Don’t you ever get tired of being a side-buster?

Posted August 22, 2013 10:08 pm 


Hey Izabel

I’ve a deal for you,I’ll tell you all about HW history if you’ll take me paragliding…deal? ; )

Posted August 22, 2013 10:06 pm 


Ernie again in another guise.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:53 pm 


But I already know who wins the challenge:

Joseph Herron

Posted August 22, 2013 9:41 pm 


Oh man… Matthysse-Garcia is one most writers are scratching their heads about all right… Most professional boxers and trainers are divided on the fight — although the fans favor Matthysse big time.

It’s a juicy fight to break down and analyze.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:41 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

“…a lot of what I post is regurgitated knowledge from better boxing minds than you…you’re just not humble enough to recognize it.

And Tard is not even smart enough to know he needs a standing eight count after that zinge

Posted August 22, 2013 9:37 pm 


Joel Diaz who trains Bradley is pretty fair.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:23 pm 

Joseph Herron

I plan to write a full “Head to Head” article on Matthysse/Garcia…that was my first choice anyway, because it seems to be one that most scribes are on the fence with.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:12 pm 


you can send it with a pseudonym, whats the matter???

Posted August 22, 2013 9:12 pm 

Joseph Herron


there are very few great trainers left in the sport who cultivate a fighter from the amateur level all the way to the world class level as a professional.

Most trainers adopt talent after they’ve already learned the fundamentals from someone else.

Emanuel Steward was the last of the mohicans.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:11 pm 


agree joseph!! Be men Tark!!

Posted August 22, 2013 9:08 pm 


Herron…, I would also appreciate if you did a full story and analysis on the Matthysse-Garcia fight complete with a style analysis, fight breakdown … and a prediction on the winner…

I also see that as another tough one for even most boxing professionals to clearly see how the styles, weaknesses and strengths match up… It’s a tricky one… Lets see how you do, and I’ll respond on your comment page as always.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:06 pm 

Joseph Herron

That’s not a challange, Tark…man, I’m disappointed in you.

You can’t just wait for mine to be published, then merely add your two bits!!

Show some brass, brother, and take the plunge. It will be fun!!

Posted August 22, 2013 9:06 pm 


Also Tark, once you’ve named the trainers, please name two or three boxers under each trainer that exhibits the greatness of their trainer’s teaching.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:05 pm 


Tark, you keep talking about “great” trainers who teach their fighters everything. Could you name a few of these “great” trainers that are alive and still working today and tell me why you think they are so great?

Posted August 22, 2013 9:04 pm 


It’ll appear on your story well before the fight… Like I did with Kovalev-Cleverly… I really had no clue you favored Kovalev.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:59 pm 


Your are going to eventually do a full analysis and prediction on the Haye-Fury fight anyway…

So you can be sure I’ll have a full scale comment and analysis with my own pick.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:57 pm 

Joseph Herron

***your own*** correction

Posted August 22, 2013 8:57 pm 

Joseph Herron


that’s no good, brother.

This has to be your own…not just a critique of mine.

You can send it to Mark with a pseudonym, brother.

Pen it under your TARK monicker…but it isn’t right that you don’t just come up with your own.

I don’t want you to see mine before you write your won…how is that impartial?

Posted August 22, 2013 8:55 pm 


I will actually submit my story on your story commnet thread … when it appears… I’m not sending my story off to anyone ahead of time or anything.

It will actually a critique of your analysis… With my own analysis and pick… That’s how I want to do it to preserve my identity… I won’t call you program either for that reason.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:52 pm 

Joseph Herron

And you will very rarely see or hear me publicly contradict Gogue for credibility purposes on the show.

i will never verbally spar with either Ronnie or James for the good of the show.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:49 pm 


DH vs TF

Posted August 22, 2013 8:49 pm 

Joseph Herron

Haye/Fury!! Great…very solid choice, my man!!

i usually write the article the Friday before the bout.

like I said, send your article to Mark on ESB at Saturday, September 28th, midnight EST, 12AM, so he can publish the two articles simultaneously.

This way, both articles can get the most hits for the site.

That’s the way it usually works, brother!!

Are you sure you don’t want to choose a fight that isn’t so far off?

maybe like Arreola/Mitchell?

Posted August 22, 2013 8:48 pm 


You won’t hear from me until I see your story and full analysis — with the victory, and when and how it will be accomplished..

And sorry about that Herron… I thought you and Gogue were in total agreement on Guerrero-Berto and Kovalev-Cleverly… I mean, you have such a high oppinion of his analysis I didn’t see you going against him.. You featured him him your headline and you didn’t back his analysis.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:47 pm 

Joseph Herron

The way it works, TARK, is you have to write your analysis piece before the fight and send it to Mark on ESB by midnight EST the Friday before the fight or technically Saturday morning at 12 AM.

the reason for this is that I don’t publish my head to head articles until the day of the fight for more hits and a better ranking on Google news.

So which fight is it going to be?

Posted August 22, 2013 8:44 pm 


The Haye-Fury fight.., Go ahead and write your story.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:41 pm 

Joseph Herron

Would you rather the ESB fatihful decide which assignment we take on?

What say you, TARK?

Posted August 22, 2013 8:35 pm 

Joseph Herron

It’s so funny, TARK, how you’re so quick to say that Gogue’s analysis was incorrect, when you have no way of knowing that.

Did Cleverly implement Gogue’s strategy to win?


So how do you know that Gogue’s analysis and strategy wasn’t the winning one?

You don’t, brother…your arrogance keeps you from seeing the big picture of things…this is going to be sweet!!

This isn’t going to be Gogue’s prediction either, TARK.

If you actually listened to the show on Sunday, you would know that I favored Kovalev by KO in the mid to late rounds.

i had been questioning why Cleverly had taken that fight when he didn’t have to…i honestly didn’t see any way he could win that fight.

Gogue’s analysis isn’t mine.

This will be my own.

So what fight will it be?

Posted August 22, 2013 8:33 pm 


That’s a deal Herron… OK., I’ll pick the fight. I’ll wait for an interesting clash of styles to make it very, very difficult.. Something like the Kovalev-Cleverly fight… Because my analysis and Gogue’s analysis of that fight are still on the board, and as different as day from night… I was right. He was one of the very few who picked Cleverly. Not so bad to pick an undefeated fighter — but it was his analysis that was the worst I’ve ever seen.

Now I criticized Gogue for saying Kovalev had to clinch when Cleverly forced his way inside or forced Cleverly against the ropes — because that wasn’t going to happen. Being undefeated can be deceptive. People give fighters attributes they don’t deserve. Sometimes they think they’re faster, stronger, tougher, more skilled, and harder to hit than they are.. If a master trainer simply watches Cleverly and assesses his skills he has a clear view of what he can perform against Kovalev before the fact.

Obviously the basic styles in that matchup were boxer-puncher vs a brawler… Only Gogue didn”t see that… That was an interesting fight, as was the Guerrero-Berto fight that Gogue also got wrong… and I got that one right too and posted on the story they had on both fights… I would be interested in how Gogue picked the last Froch-Kessler fight or the Matthysse-Peterson fights.. Those were interesting fights as well, featuring a tough brawler with a good jab versus a guy with over hyped and very average skills for Froch0-Kessler.. And a big bomber vs a brawler in Matthysse-Peterson.

Now the Mayweather-Canelo fight will be close and everyone kind of knows these 2 can box, punch, and defend.. They’re both great fighters.. So anyone can kind of make up any scenario they want and be half-assed right, because they already saw how Canelo did vs Trout and Trout and Floyd did vs Cotto — and who took the best hits and defended the best, and came out of those fights without a mark and so on … So those 3 fights let the cat out of the bag as to how Canelo should do.

Matthysse-Garcia is a more interesting fight… more unpredictable… Haye-Fury is another very interesting matchup, where public opinion is a certain way and realities might add up differently.. Of course I’ve already talked somewhat about these fights so maybe I should lay back and not comment on any fights until I see a story by Herron and Gogue which I think even when they say “This could happen — the opposite could happen” they finally come down and actually make a cold-blooded decision on who’s going to win … such as “Cleverly bu UD.”

That’s when I’ll step up and write my piece on the same fight… Until I see the actual story and the actual pick you and Gogue made… You won’t hear from me … because I don’t want to give anything away for free.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:25 pm 

Joseph Herron

Oh well…I have to prepare for an all sports program that I’m hosting tonight called the “Sports Krib”.

i will check on this board after the show ends at 11PM EST.

Thanks for your input, guys!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:56 pm 

Joseph Herron

i’m down with Matthysse/Garcia…it’s a controversial bout in which most fans are on the fence.

I hope TARK takes the pepsi challenge!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:52 pm 


Matthysse/Garcia would be great!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:44 pm 

Joseph Herron

lol…It’s alright, Simon!!

I’m down with May/Canelo…but that fight is a little unfair, don’t you think?

I’ll have access to everything that Gogue sees in both camps.

What about Matthysse/Garcia?

Posted August 22, 2013 7:37 pm 


I must have lost my russian charm…lol

Let’s TAKE May/Can!!!!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:35 pm 

Joseph Herron

Gogue will be able to speak freely the week of the fight.

i can’t wait…to my knowledge, he’s the only person with this access for this amount of time.

He should be out in Vegas at this time at the Mayweather camp.

Posted August 22, 2013 7:35 pm 


Guess it’s my own fault, I wrote her a stupid facebook message…I’m deeply sorry Izabel! Please pick a fight…

Posted August 22, 2013 7:25 pm 


Gogue has the inside stuff and to have the benefit of visiting both camps is exciting. I can’t wait to hear what he has to say.

Will he speak freely? Is he allowed to answer any questions?
Good stuff…..we can build a whole discussion board from that interview brother.

Posted August 22, 2013 7:24 pm 

Joseph Herron

lol…Simon, you make me laugh!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:22 pm 


why do women always ignore me? lol

Posted August 22, 2013 7:20 pm 

Joseph Herron

Right on…please De Lima I, do the honors!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:17 pm 


I pick May/Canelo…

but why not ask the woman on this thread…deLima pick a fight please!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:14 pm 

Joseph Herron

Thanks, Bustajay…also, we have a real treat for everyone leading into the fight.

Gogue will be the only trainer, fighter, or press member on the face of the earth who will have spent a week in both Canelo’s and Floyd’s respective camps.

i will be putting out an article during the week of the fight with his observations, and he will discuss them on the show the Sunday before the bout!!

It’s going to be awesome!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:13 pm 

Joseph Herron

Especially when you factor in how much CBS/Showtime has already guaranteed to pay both fighters, Ted.

This has the potential to be a real nightmare for Showtime!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:10 pm 


It all depends on Tark now! C’mon!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:09 pm 


Damn TARK is going on the dark side of retarded today…JK
Hell I forgot what the article I just read was based on due to all the rubbish…..oh Floyd…
Floyd is way to skilled for the young man as this will be a round by round breaking down for the younger man.

Joseph I look forward to the broadcast.

Posted August 22, 2013 7:09 pm 

Joseph Herron


now we’re talking!!

I plan to do a head to head article on May/Canelo anyway.

I’m down, brother!!

Posted August 22, 2013 7:08 pm 


Im just kidding brother..Lewis Vitali fight is a never ending story here on ESB. LOL

Posted August 22, 2013 7:04 pm 

Kid Blast

OK, here is something to ponder. CBS and Time Warner are having issues over Showtime and some other stations. I have not been able to get Showtime for weeks and have missed good fights and Ray Donavan. I am very pissed off.

But my biggest concern will be if this impacts the Mayweather-Canelo PPV fight. Seems to me Showtime would lose millions if it did.

What say you about this?

Posted August 22, 2013 7:03 pm 

Joseph Herron

C’mon, GI…I’m talking about a fight that hasn’t happened yet in which we both haven’t had time to go over for years and years.

How about Matthysse versus Garcia?

That seems to be a very controversial bout in which most seem to be on the fence.

How about it?

Posted August 22, 2013 7:01 pm 


Mayweather Canelo

Posted August 22, 2013 7:01 pm 


Lewis vs Vitali LOL

Posted August 22, 2013 6:58 pm 

Joseph Herron

You pick the fight, Tark…or better yet, why don’t we let everyone on the comment board pick the fight for us to make it impartial?

Which fight, guys?

Posted August 22, 2013 6:55 pm 


Sounds fair to me!!! C’mon Tark, BE MEN!!! Accept the challenge!!!!

Posted August 22, 2013 6:48 pm 

Joseph Herron

I’ll tell you what, TARK…why don’t you create an article that breaks down any fight of your choosing and i will make one as well…we’ll get Mark to publish the both of them on ESB, and we’ll let everyone here on the site decide which one is better.

i’m game if you are, brother…if you can’t or won’t…then stfu!!

Also, why don’t you just call into my show on Sunday at 9PM EST, and we can talk about this like men? 718-506-1506

Why don’t you challenge trainer James Gogue, who you are so quick to insult? His segment begins at 10PM EST on Sunday night…718-506-1506.

If you’re not willing or able…once again, stfu!!

Posted August 22, 2013 6:29 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

“…a lot of what I post is regurgitated knowledge from better boxing minds than you…you’re just not humble enough to recognize it.

And Tard is not even smart enough to know he needs a standing eight count after that zinger…

Posted August 22, 2013 6:27 pm 

Joseph Herron

A trainer always teaches the fundamentals…balance, footwork, where to place your hands, how to properly throw different punches from different angles, as well as upper body and head movement.

But depending on what he sees in the gym while training a young fighter, while assessing a fighter’s strengths and weaknesses, how hard he punches, how good his footwork is, etc…he determines what style the young fighter should adopt.

Great trainers can assess properly what style a fighter should attempt and what he shouldn’t attempt, depending on their athletic ability.

But I know several fighters who have tried to implement different styles before finding the right one that fits their mentality in the ring as well as their overall athleticism.

Posted August 22, 2013 6:25 pm 


And if by a one-in-a-million chance they say they would withhold some skills from one of their boxers.. Just ask, “Which ones??? And why???

Posted August 22, 2013 6:20 pm 


Herron…, Lets see who analysis of fights is better before hand — by the results of the fights… See if these trainers are better than me.

Usually they aren’t — and may not even want to pick for fear of being wrong… They’ll jump on the popular opinion and go with that… They’re mostly afraid to go against public and “expert” opinion.

I’m not.

So Herron… The question to ask is: … And don’t put any spin on it like I know you’re skilled at doing.. Just ask straight out, “Should an all-around great trainer try to teach every boxer he has, “Stance, footwork, a complete arsenal of punches, combination punching, feinting, infighting—blocking, parrying, slipping, ducking, rolling etc … or are there fundamental skill sets he should NOT teach a certain boxer — depending on how athletic and speedy the boxer is — and if the all-around great trainer pegs his style as a boxer, puncher, or fighter???”

Posted August 22, 2013 6:17 pm 

Joseph Herron

You’re wrong about Ronnie or any other elite level trainer saying anything different than what I have told you already.

Like I stated earlier in this thread, a lot of what I post is regurgitated knowledge from better boxing minds than you…you’re just not humble enough to recognize it.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:28 pm 

Joseph Herron

Which one, TARK? You drifted so much that I had forgotten what we were originally discussing, brother.

If you want me to respond as to why Virgil is having trouble improving Angulo’s and Khan’s defense, I’ll tell you.

I don’t think Angulo is capable of learning any new wrinkles to his fight game. You’re correct when you state that it is very difficult to see any kind of immediate improvement when a fighter has years of accumulated bad habits. But what you fail to recognize is that Alfredo is just not capable of executing the same defensive skills that Ward can.

Ward is just a much better natural athlete than Alfred will ever be. If you don’t believe me, just ask anyone who has been in the gym with the both of them. Better yet, why don’t you simply ask Virgil…He’ll be the first person to tell you that Alfredo doesn’t have the kind of speed, reflexes and natural athelticism to pull off half of the things Andre can do in the ring.

Khan is a different story…in his case, his footwork has always been the foundation of his defense and his offense. There’s nothing wrong with Khan. His ability to move in and out of an opponent’s range is very good. He’s a great athlete…the only improvements he needs are mental.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:25 pm 


You ask him… You’ll have more time with him than me.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:22 pm 


Shields will have competely different answers… He’s not going to say you can’t do it. He’s not going to say you can’t change bad habits or teach new skills, or that certain boxers don’t have the athletic talents to learn basic skill sets.

I mean… Hunter, Khan, Angulo, and Berto wouldn’t try if they didn’t think it was possible… Better to have loved and lost…

Posted August 22, 2013 5:19 pm 


That’s OK… But you didn’t comment on my answer to your question.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:14 pm 

de Lima I.

Your knowledge is incredible TARK.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:11 pm 

Joseph Herron

Also, next time I go to the Morones Boxing Gym in San Antonio, Texas, I’ll lace up the gloves and step in the ring for a couple of minutes and show everyone some of my skills.

I’ll record it so you guys can see that the old, fat hispanic guy has some skills!!

It’ll be good for a laugh…but the fighters on this site will be able to see that I can fight.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:09 pm 

Joseph Herron

I”ll tell you what, Tark…why don’t you call up Ronnie Shields on Sunday and ask him these same questions…he’ll tell you exactly what I’ve repeatedly stated on this thread.


His segment begins at 9:30 PM EST…don’t be late, brother!!

Posted August 22, 2013 5:05 pm 


Also…, Hunter himself has to shoulder part of the blame.. He isn’t doing whatever is necessary to make the slightest improvement in Khan’s game.. Just maybe he’s the wrong guy to try.

Or maybe it’s all on Khan… Although he’s probably trying his ass off maybe he expects too much too soon. Wladimir had fits and starts when he first changed up his stance and footwork… But he was a strong believer…

Takes a lot of faith and effort… The hardest thing in the world is to unlearn something you’ve been doing for decades.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:05 pm 

Joseph Herron

I’ll work the mits with anyone…just not for a lengthy period of time any longer…lol!!

My cardio is gone…I can’t breath properly anymore…I sound like Shannon Briggs when I go to the gym now!! lol

Posted August 22, 2013 4:50 pm 


What you never do is say, “This is a real tough fighter with a rock hard chin.. He’s a super hard puncher so we don’t need to worry about a jab… He’s so tough and strong we’ll train him to attack, attack attack, and beat everybody down.”

No way… You go to square one and work on his stance and movement.

Wladimir — Laughing as Steward was showing him footwork, “This is the first thing I learned 17 years ago in my first boxing lesson.”

Steward.., “Well… It’s time you went over it again.”

Posted August 22, 2013 4:48 pm 

Joseph Herron

That’s right, Peej!! You tell ’em, brother!!

Posted August 22, 2013 4:47 pm 

Joseph Herron

I can still move for an old, fat guy…lol.

I can still punch, too. Just not very hard…lol. but the technique is there…short and compact.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:46 pm 


Well one is that he has had Andre his whole fighting career. But also it is hard to change someones style when they have been fighting like that there whole career. Khans style never changed. He fought the same way even after he was KOd. He just had a bigger name trainer traning him. Angulo actually was doing pretty good against the cuban guy till he got stopped. I thought he was on his way to a stoppage victory but unfortunately he got stopped. But that is just his style, and as for Berto, well he was never brought up correctly. His style has also been the same. But some people are limited in what they can do. So it definitely has a lot to do with you athletisism.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:46 pm 

Joseph Herron

Thanks for bringing up Andre Ward, TARK.

Why did Virgil Hunter have so much success with Ward and is seemingly having a hard time teaching those same skills to Khan, Angulo, and Berto?

Answer that very simple question, brother.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:40 pm 


Herron, answer an obvious question.

Does a great all-around trainer teach his all his boxers all-around skills… i.e. a Mayweather, Golovkin, Kovalev, or Ward??? That’s what you want.

You don’t want an Amir Khan or Nathan Cleverly—who lack all-around skills.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:36 pm 

Joseph Herron

I hate looking at this video interview for that reason.

That’s why I prefer being on the radio…lol!!

Posted August 22, 2013 4:35 pm 

Joseph Herron

just attach the w’s before the web address and you can see signs of nerve damage on the right side of my face from the last broken nose I had.

BTW, this is my interview with newly signed GBP prospect Jairo Castaneda

Posted August 22, 2013 4:30 pm 

Old Yank

My heavens…Years ago I copied a photo of a guy in boxing garb from his web site; a photo that he was using as proof that his fantasy bio as a former amateur fighter was true. Something was nagging at me that it or he or both were a fraud. When I imported the photo into a high-end digital dark room, it revealed that the amount of tampering that had been done to the photo was stunning – layer upon layer of tampering. It is amazing the lengths people will go through. By-the-way, there are about six times as many people with resumes claiming to be former Navy Seals then the number of men who ever went through the program. Why people do it, I don’t know. But be it a false resume claiming to be a former Navy Seal or a false bio claiming boxing experience, eventually these frauds are discovered to the great embarrassment of the individual involved. Sometimes they get away with it for an extraordinarily long time and then sometimes out of nowhere someone comes down with the truth hammer.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:29 pm 

de Lima I.

ES was never a “great infighter” and body puncher so it was hard for him to teach that.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:28 pm 

Joseph Herron

Look up any of my interviews with fighters…I always have to stand with my left side facing the camera.

I am still very self conscious about the camera catching my right side. Although I have the mojority of movement restored to that side of my face, I can still tell that there is nerve damage when I smile or laugh.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:17 pm 

Old Yank

Joseph – -I take you at your word!

Posted August 22, 2013 4:09 pm 

Old Yank

Pointless personal attacks! Why? No proof…take a man’s word on face value! On the other hand, we’ve seen some bull stories from over-enthusiastic fans clawing their way into the boxing scene — writing fantastic things about their boxing background that’s been proven to be total bull. Admissions followed about their autobiographical stories admitting that boxing experience was intentionally fantasize for journalistic effect. Whatever the excuse, if you lie about your experience, it’s a lie. I presume Joseph Herron to be sharing truth about his youth. If someone had proof to the contrary, lay it out or shut up. And having “contact” style amateur bouts in collegiate intermural activity RARELY leaves college kids showing signs of boxing experience. Some do take a crack that leaves permanent damage, but ever since boxing was banned by the NCAA in the 1960’s, college gym classes and intermural boxing have RARELY left a student damaged.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:07 pm 

Joseph Herron


you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Anyone who looks at my face can tell…anyone who hears me talk about the sport can tell as well.

Admittedly, I sucked at it, but I tried when I was a much younger man. It’s f***ing hard and isn’t for everyone.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:00 pm 


Ali had no body attack and grabbed every time you got inside his guard… Holmes was slightly taller with slightly longer arms… He learned how to fight inside a little bit and it definitely gave him an edge whenever they sparred… That was why Ali fought Leon Spinks when Holmes was the best heavyweight in the world.

An all-around game like Floyd, always gives you an edge.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:52 pm 


Mr. Herron, I want to hear that you do not have boxing experience. You don’t have it and that does not make you a lesser journalist and writer. Claiming it only takes away any hard-earned credibility you might have had. Nothing about you shows boxing traces, even if they only hit your nose, there would be signs. If you had any signs I would not have asked at all. You don’t have any signs of boxing mentality as well and that’s not a bad thing either. Just stop pretending and do what you do, you won’t foll anyone who has boxed. As I said, boxing background is not a must for a reporter but you are destroying your credibility by trying to be someone you are not.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:51 pm 

Joseph Herron

Stay on point, TARK…starting to drift, brother.

I answered your question and you’re shifting gears now. Nice.

Gotta run now, guys!!

Posted August 22, 2013 3:49 pm 

Joseph Herron


Thanks for the insightful discussion!! To those who were truly interested in sharing insight regarding up coming bouts, I really enjoyed the discussions today…you guys know who you are!!

Thanks for re-instilling my hope for this site!!

Posted August 22, 2013 3:47 pm 


Vitali didn’t lean away from all of Adamek’s right hands… He got under some of them… He turned the left shoulder beautifully on some of them.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:46 pm 


Wladimir would be a much better fighter if he had a great body attack…and could fight better on the inside… That would make his outside skills even better.

Steward was never great at teaching that.. What Steward did teach, he taught extremely well.. But he was no Mayweather in overall knowledge..

Wladimir would be better if he had the type of all around game Ward… Mayweather… Kovalev… or Golovkin has.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:44 pm 

Joseph Herron


Vitali has always been proficient at leaning away from shots. Throughout his entire career, he’s practiced this defensive technique.

It makes him look very gangly at times, but he is very effective at it. Always has been.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:43 pm 

Joseph Herron

TARK, trainers teach to the strength and weaknesses of a fighter all of the time.

Do you really think that Emanuel Streward tried to teach Wlad had to fight more proficiently on the inside?

Hell no…he merely taught him how to stay out of range and clinch when a fighter penetrated his defense.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:39 pm 


So at the age of 40, Vitali had much more mastery of a technique than he had at 32.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:36 pm 


The shoulder roll is not a style… It’s a specific defensive skill most boxers can learn… Vitali used his left shoulder extremely well vs Adamek to roll his right hand efforts… Adamek was able to reach the taller 6’8″ Michael Grant — but couldn’t reach Vitali at all..

That was partly due to the expertise Vitali had with using his left shoulder to defend… Something he couldn’t do very well 10 years ago.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:35 pm 

Joseph Herron

Rebellious, what do you want to hear?

What is your point for poking fun at my crooked nose and collapsed sinuses?

The right side of my face was paralyzed for almost two years. You can still see signs of nerve damage on some of my commentary videos.

That’s why I ultimately quit when I was attending college. It was a painful lesson to learn. Boxing is serious business.

I have the nerve damage and crooked nose to prove it.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:33 pm 


BTW…, You DON’T teach to the strengths and weakness of an anthlete… You work on his strengths to make them stronger… But you try to make his weaknesses his strengths by focusing on them.

Amir Khan is a good offensive boxer with a lousy defense… What he needs to do is work on his weaknesses… He can’t clinch… He can’t defend…

Those things have to be corrected massively for him to get back in the mix… He needs a super tough program to accomplish that.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:30 pm 

Joseph Herron

Skill sets determine the fight style, TARK.

let’s discuss the shoulder roll or Philly shell, brother.

If that defensive style is so effective when executed correctly, why doesn’t everyone practice it?

Because it depends on speed and reflexes that some fighters will never possess. Not every athlete is blessed with same physical attributes as the next fighter.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:27 pm 


Mr. Herron, what happened to the boxing experience claim? You are letting that go? Do you keep the X rays for the nose or you fixed it with a fork? Now you are a brilliant journalist according to your own opinion, a journalist who has an approach to leading coaches and they spill their guts to him. I won’t argue, I respect different opinions. I still think that’s a little snobbish and pompous, I liked the nose fairy tale better, that was your best comment, very amusing.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:17 pm 


@Herron… You said quote… “There are certain skill sets that trainers won’t even attempt to teach a fighter if he doesn’t have the natural athleticism to execute them.”… EXACTLY WHAT SKILL SETS ARE THOSE? … You weren’t talking style… You said skill sets.

A GREAT trainer teaches EVERY boxer he has EVERY skill in Boxing.

With a novice you start with stance, footwork, punching, combination punching, and feinting—then you teach blocking, parrying, slipping, ducking, rolling, weaving, and every defensive skill there is… An excellent pupil should be ready to spar in 3 months or less, when you round out his defensive skills.

There are NO skill sets a trainer “Shouldn’t even attempt to teach a fighter who doesn’t have the natural athleticism to execute them.” If a prospect can’t or won’t execute all the skills he’s shouldn’t box PERIOD.

And he would have to be a sorry athlete… You would have to tell him to go home.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:14 pm 

Joseph Herron

Thanks for the endorsement, Tiger!!

Posted August 22, 2013 3:13 pm 

Joseph Herron

Chambers was prepared for the fight with Mchunu, but Peltz placed Eddie in a boxing “kobayashi maru”.

Both “Chambers and Mchunu” are prolific counter punchers. But because Eddie was the “name” on the fight card, he felt the pressure of trying to force the action of the fight.

Eddie has never been an effective aggressor, and was very much out of his comfort zone against Mchunu.

Styles make fights…they always have and always will.

Eddie is far from being a shot fighter…he would have looked much different against a more aggressive opponent.

Bad match-making on the part of legend Russell Peltz

Posted August 22, 2013 3:11 pm 

Tomato Can

The fact is, every author, talk show host, commentator, etc. will get picked apart by fans on this site just like the fighters do. I do my share of it as well.

Posted August 22, 2013 3:06 pm 

Joseph Herron

Oh boy…Rebel, do I sound like I’m trying to boss anyone around on this site?

Very few people will knowingly give up insider info, so to speak, but a good journalist can always get the goods if he asks the right questions with the correct approach…one of the factors I take great pride in.

One of the reasons why a lot of fighters and trainers open up to me is because they know I do understand boxing better than most journalists by speaking with me for an extended period of time.

most of posters here on the site recognize that as well.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:53 pm 


Joseph, tell me again about your broken nose and how you have the inside info on boxing. I just stopped laughing and I’m ready for more. Brag about how you had your nose broken three times, not that I’d believe you, who brags about this? Did you parents call the police or they encouraged you to have the nose broken for the 4th time? Write an article about it, lay off the high profile stuff. Do snobbish fans pay more to watch boxing? A snobbish casual fan is still a casual fan.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:53 pm 


Good analysis Joseph!!

De Lima I,

If Pulev is able to get past Thompson this Saturday by effectively keeping him at a safe distance and outboxing the mentally strong fight veteran, then I would have to change my prediction in the match-up with Povetkin.

i just don’t see him keeping Thompson at a safe distance for twelve rounds.

The southpaw stance won’t even come into play for this fight. Most people don’t know that Tony is a right handed guy, even though he fights out of the southpaw stance.

This is why Tony is very comfortable giving away his southpaw advantage and squaring up on the inside while throwing effectively in combination. When a fighter takes his game to the inside, the southpaw advantage disappears.

I think this will be the primary factor in the fight. It will be interesting to see if Pulev can successfully keep Tony at a safe distance…Wladimir is the only fighter to accomplish this to date.

Think about that…no one but Wlad has been able to keep Tony at a safe distance.

If Pulev is capable of achieving this feat, it will speak volumes on Kubrat’s abilities in the ring.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:52 pm 

Joseph Herron

You’re probably right, Tomato Can…and I know better than to trade with a guy who is only interested in arguing about who’s right and who’s wrong like TARK.

but that’s what kills me…there are very few things about this sport that are absolute, and more knowledgeable men that Tark or myself often will disagree about styles and match-ups.

That’s what is laughable about the entire thing. he is always trying to prove how someone is wrong in their assessment of styles and match-ups…lol

The truth is not relative…it’s absolute. So i don’t see how one could profess being “right” all of the time when discussing a subjective art form like boxing.

it’s comical!!

Posted August 22, 2013 2:49 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

The resident d/n chimed in with:

“Thabiso Mchunu is an extremely SHORT SQUAT cruiserweight—who totally dominated the much taller Eddie Chambers—by boxing from the OUTSIDE”.

It was more like Chambers was not mentally prepared for the fight. He looks to be ringworn, worst performance of his career.

Ok Tard, the adults are talking so listen up and hopefully you may learn a thing or three…

Posted August 22, 2013 2:45 pm 


Who are fooling with your hapless boxing “experience” and busted nose? You never boxed even in a local tournament. You never boxed at all and if you tried, you shouldn’t have. Do not take regurgitated food as a main course. No one would give inside info before a fight and they could be joking or using for advertising (I’m giving you credit here). The valuable info will not given to you to post on a comment board. You are just a pretentious fan who is trying to boss around other casual fans.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:39 pm 

Tomato Can

Joseph, I get feeling Tark is baiting you, and you keep taking it hook, line and sinker. LOL

Posted August 22, 2013 2:38 pm 

Joseph Herron


If you want to talk about Chambers/Mchunu, I can tell you a lot about what happened in that horrid style match-up…but I don’t really see where it applies to our previous discussion.

It was quite shocking to see that the great Russell Peltz stuck Eddie in the ring with Mchunu. It really put Eddie in a no win situation.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:36 pm 

Joseph Herron


A trainer never assumes that he can’t teach a fighter a certain style before working with him…and I never said that.

What I stated was that every great trainer teaches to the strengths and weaknesses of an athlete.

I know a lot of great trainers who will try out certain styles with a given fighter, but ultimately give up on teaching him certain things because it just doesn’t seem to work with the physical and mental attributes of a given athlete.

But, I had many conversations about Oliver McCall with the late, great Emanuel Steward…and I’m convinced that he was the only trainer who could have taught anything new to Oliver after a certain age.

Everyone had problems with Oliver before his involvement with Steward. The only reason why Emanuel even took on that assignment was because of his friendship with Don King.

Otherwise, Emanuel didn’t want any part of him…because of the reputation Oliver had garnered within the sport.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:30 pm 



Posted August 22, 2013 2:29 pm 


@Herron…, Thabiso Mchunu is an extremely SHORT SQUAT cruiserweight—who totally dominated the much taller Eddie Chambers—by boxing from the OUTSIDE. If Mchunu’s trainer relied on stereotypes he would have tried to change Mchunu into a Marciano type attacker—because of his lack of height and his very short arms.

You say.., “Emanuel was able to teach Wlad Klitschko defense through footwork because of his athletic ability. He couldn’t teach that to someone like Oliver McCall, and he would never try.”

Yes he WOULD… That’s an area McCall could have made vast improvements on. McCAll DID work on footwork of course.. Every serious professional boxer does—but not all are extremely diligent.

You DO teach EVERY boxer footwork.. Footwork is fundamental.. Footwork was one small part of the defensive skill set Steward taught Kiltschko…He greatly improved his stance, and taught Wlad to keep his head back for a couple things. A great trainer can make a world of difference.

I’ve seen boxing trainers convert southpaws to the orthodox style because they never trained a southpaw… This makes it easier on the trainer right??? Mediocre trainers tend to stereotype boxers.. They can destroy whatever potential they have.

You never assume that you can’t teach somebody skills… Nobody plays the one-minute waltz in 30 seconds after 25 piano lessons… Masterful form and speed of execution are skills that are painstakingly acquired after many years of drills and effort.

You don’t have to reply. I know you don’t want to ever be wrong, and will never admit you’re wrong.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:18 pm 

Gonzo the Dragonborn

”Problem is Floyd doesn’t get tired and we’ve seen Canelo fade in fights before. Having to take off that extra two pounds is.. people think it’s just two pounds but when you already struggling to make ’54 that extra two pounds is a lot. He’s going to put on a lot of weight but he’s not going to be able to put on the right kind of weight just in 24 hours. So he’s gonna feel the fact that he’s, you know, stripped his body, cutting his muscles to get to 152”

– Andre ‘Son of God’ Ward two time world champion, winner of the Super Six tournament, and the current P4P# 8 fighter in the world.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:17 pm 

Joseph Herron

Opinionated Rebel,

I boxing when I was much younger and got my nose broken three times as a result. So yes, I know exactly what it’s like to be in the ring.

I don’t claim to know everyting about the sport and treat everyone’s opinions with great respect as a result.

But, I am a boxing insider and have access to a lot more information about the business than most, and I try to share my findings with as many as I can because it helps promote the sport of boxing.

I have studied the fight game with some of the greatest minds of the sport, and like I stated in an earlier post, a lot of what I state on the comment boards is regurgitated info from these great men.

I would like to think that most people on this forum can recognize this just from my posts. But, I guess I have to remind some people from time to time.

But I take great pride in continously learning and gain a lot from discussions I have with insightful people on this and other boxing sites.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:11 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

The Great part of ESPN is listening to the Former and or Current Pro Athletes discuss their sport and the decline of the sports reporter giving all his sage wisdom.

When a pro athlete is talking, if you are not asking a question or stimulating the conversation to take it to the next level, shhhhhhh.


Posted August 22, 2013 2:09 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

Joseph Herron:

Absolutely. Stick with hanging out and listening to those that do and not those that just think they know and want to write and talk about it.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:05 pm 

Opinionated rebel

Joseph, what makes you so special that you comment on everyone’s opinions? Have you ever boxed competitively? You have a degree in boxing and you know it all? Going to the local gym to see what it smells like doesn’t count. You are entitled to your opinions of course but don’t act like Uncle Sam and sanction everyone else.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:59 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

Joseph Herron :

Agree; Wlad’s footwork is excellent. He still worked at it though. That was years of early training that ingrained in him precise movements. You did that before you threw a punch. I think that’s what I recall both of them talking about. Do you recall?

Just look at Kostya Tszyu’s overall ability specifically from amateurs to his Early Pro days…amazing ability. It’s all from the schooling early on. The key is sticking with it throughout which some don’t and then they decline. Tyson was an example of that.
That reminds me, I was recently watching Kostya Tszyu vs Pedro Sanchez. That was earlier Tszyu that people may forget. His balance, subtle movements, and precision were incredible back then.

Wlad just looks different from the other Heavyweights because of how well he took to the system of Precision and Perfection.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:54 pm 

Joseph Herron

Great stuff, Dr. Ross…I will definitely check it out.

you can apply the same thing in my line of work as well.

One of the variables I take great pride in is my continuous education in the fight game. i never assume I know more than anyone who is teaching the craft and practicing it in the gym, unlike a lot of my colleagues…sad to say.

I always visit the gyms and study different techniques in training from many different trainers.

I feel this is what separates me from most writers in the industry who merely focus on history and resume.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:48 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

Joseph Herron:

yes, again, when looking at Mike Tyson from the 80’s, when on the heavy-bag, he is being instructed on combinations, proper form, and angles he would be utilizing in a fight.

What’s the point of doing something that has no purpose to making you better? Something that won’t work in a fight?

These two, on youtube, under Steve Lott’s youtube page, are good to view:

Mike Tyson Destroys Heavy Bag – Atlantic City 1987

Mike Tyson Power On The Mitts

Tyson was still a student despite being Champion at this point. Of course he was still young so people may bring that up as the reason why he was still accepting clear instructions, but did that ever stop the Veteran Athlete that continues to want to get better, to be “perfect” for competition by being submissive to his Trainer?
Even if you know it, an expert advisor will make sure you are sharp. Sometimes you only think you are sharp but are slipping.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:39 pm 

Joseph Herron

Dr. Ross,

Every great trainer realizes that you can only teach what a man can execute.

That brings me to the point I made earlier. Natural gifts dictate what style a fighter is taught by his trainer. it’s what separates the classes in boxing.

Emanuel was able to teach Wlad Klitschko defense through footwork because of his athletic ability. He couldn’t teach that to someone like Oliver McCall, and he would never try.

Part of being a great trainer and strategist is identifying the strengths and weaknesses of a fighter and adapting to his abilities.

You’re right on the money, brother!!

Posted August 22, 2013 1:36 pm 

Joseph Herron

You know, that’s one of the things I love most about the fight game. Anyone can make their analysis about the upcoming fights, but the truth is that anything can happen in the ring on fight night!!

That’s why we all love the sport so much.

I think we can all agree on that!!

Posted August 22, 2013 1:30 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

Joseph Herron:

If there is one big criticism on Kevin Rooney it is that he doesn’t seem to teach more than one style unlike say, Ray Arcel or Eddie Futch who would adapt to YOU.

If you look at who had great success with that style it was the young fighters who were fast and athletic (and the bonus was the power).

“How Mike Tyson Learned to Box Rare Footage” on youtube…Tyson talks about how he started to miss the shot as he got older. Or that split second open window I would say.
“It’s a young man’s style” he said.

Cus D’Amato used to train his fighters with the “Willy System/Bag.” D’Amato had tapped recordings of his voice calling out numbers. The fighter heard them and instantly responding on command (by the time he was seasoned). Each number, each command had a specific reason to be used. Each punch was placed to setup the next to create a lethal combination that would reach those “vital areas.”

Why did Tyson stop being so good? He stopped using the Willie System after he left Rooney. After Douglas, what’s his name???…said they were going to bring it back in but I doubt they ever did especially with Richie Giachetti taking over. Credit to Richie however for making Tyson’s Straight Right Hand Punch sharper for the Ruddock fights, especially fight II, than the looping style he had been using.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:29 pm 


Alvarez will KO floyd and floyd’s excuse will be he’s tired and has been at the top for a long time. NO u signed a 6 fight deal you’re not tired, its just Alvarez is better than you period. You will get caught and you wont be able to wrap your arms around Saul like u did to Shane Moseley, he will push you back and connect again and you will sleep.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:19 pm 

Fight Aficionado

Style, weight, age blah blah we’ve all got opinions and barring any breaking news that adds something to the equation there’s nothing that changes any of our opinions until they fight. Bottom line, we’ll all buy the PPV, Floyd’s the favorite, and Matthysse-Garcia is by far the best fight on the card. The End.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:18 pm 


we dont need roger mayweather writing for esb

Posted August 22, 2013 1:17 pm 

Joseph Herron

Dr Ross,

Floyd Sr still teaches his multi punch combinations but always preaches defense first.

I’m not sure about this, but I think the mit work that Roger professes focuses more on speed and rhythm more than anything else. Not about punch combinations that you use in a prizefight. If I had to guess, that would be the reason.

But Emanuel absolutely hated practicing combinations that you wouldn’t ordinarily use in a prizefight. He didn’t see any need for it. But you can definitelly tell a lot about a fighter by how they attack the heavy bag.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:14 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

“Bad surgery you say? YES, bad surgery. Not everyone goes into surgery and comes out squeaky clean. Many actually are never the same. And worse, some need multiple surgeries to correct the wrong that was done in the first. That is, if they want to go through with it again.”

Amen to that…

Posted August 22, 2013 1:11 pm 

Joseph Herron

Very insightful stuff, Dr. Ross!!

Floyd was a completely different fighter before the Corley fight. He realized very quickly that he couldn’t let his hands go against guys who were Junior Welters and heavier.

And Kevin Rooney is a great trainer who primarily works with amateurs these days, but he continues to be one of the best in the business.

Great stuff, brother!!

Posted August 22, 2013 1:09 pm 

Joseph Herron

Great post, Dr. Ross!!

A fighter will develop bad habits if he is nursing an injury for a sustained period of time…very insightful stuff!!

Posted August 22, 2013 1:05 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

Joseph Herron:

When has anyone seen Floyd throw a 20 punch combination throughout any of his fights? Emanuel Steward always hated when the media and fight fans made a big deal about Floyd’s flashy display of handspeed through mit work. {End quote}

I still like FLoyd when he was fighting under 147; those combinations were more plentiful and beautiful. I still recall the incredible combination he laid on Corley that dropped him.

Mit work: There was a reason why he does mit work the way he does but I can’t recall exactly. It’s around though. People in his camp have talked about it although I don’t think Sr. is in agreement with the way Roger does his.

***** A great look at Teaching Proper Mitt work for better yourself for Fighting, just go to youtube and look up Steve Lott’s youtube account. On there, he has a video of Kevin Rooney doing Mitt Work with Mike Tyson. Rooney is continually instructed him on every move. Same thing with the Heavy-bag. And people wonder what the difference was when Mike left Kevin….oh, boy.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:02 pm 

Dr. Doug Ross

TARK: Shoulder injuries are a very common injury to have, especially among athletes that use their arms.

The MAJORITY of Pitchers and Quarterbacks play with some level of trauma to their throwing arm. It’s just that the majority don’t need to get surgery because they go through constant therapy to keep them playing.

Vernon Forrest fought with most of his career with a bad shoulder but it wasn’t until it was completely wrecked to the point he just couldn’t do it anymore that he got surgery.

Ever wonder why Oscar slows or even stops throwing his jab after a certain round? Tired? Maybe. But how about the fact that he had tissue damage throughout his career that he refused to get surgery for because he didn’t want to risk losing his career to a bad surgery.

Bad surgery you say? YES, bad surgery. Not everyone goes into surgery and comes out squeaky clean. Many actually are never the same. And worse, some need multiple surgeries to correct the wrong that was done in the first. That is, if they want to go through with it again. Many just say forget it.

And then, you have to factor in once it is injured to a certain extent, it will never be exactly the same. Sure, you can get back on the field just as well but how long before the miles rack up again and the next time the injuries even worse?

ALSO, if you are training and playing injured, you tend to compensate for that injury by using other muscles more which in return, increases the stress in the muscles and adds to the likelihood that another injury to another part of the body happens.
Ex: Left Leg is bad so you lean more on the right. Guess what? That right is under to much stress and now that is wearing out and can blow out.
Even other muscles are being forced to get out of line and injuries occur.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:51 pm 

Joseph Herron

Just like the other day, I received an email from a long time listener of the show accusing me of being on the payroll of TMT and Mayweather promotions.

that’s absurd…anyone who knows me personally truly knows how I feel about everything…but I won’t publicly say anything about it.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:48 pm 

de Lima I.

I’m usually very objective, he’s the only exception. I like TT too, he’s a great fighter, a great person and deserves a lot respect.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:48 pm 

Joseph Herron

lol…what are you talking about, Bumwatch?

Of course I love boxing and will always be a fan. I just can’t express who I’m rooting for on press row. That part of it sucks…imagine going to a fight and not being able to root publicly for your friends in the ring…that sucks!!

I really can’t even express who I’m rooting for on this comment board.

But I have my favorites and hope that most can’t tell who they are.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:45 pm 

Joseph Herron

I spoke with Sugar the other day about Kovalev’s performance and asked him about a fight between Sergey and Adonis.

Sugar suprisingly loves the fight. He genuinely feels that Adonis will KO the “Russian Krusher”. He feels that Kovalev will turn into more of a tentative fighter once he feels Stevenson’s power. it’s the best fight that can be made at 175 pounds at this time!!

Posted August 22, 2013 12:42 pm 


Joseph, stop plagiarizing from this author. First he says his knowledge does not let him enjoy boxing, now you…You both like it, you wouldn’t be here you hypocrites.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:41 pm 

Tomato Can

Joseph, will do. Thanks for the info.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:34 pm 

Joseph Herron

Get ready for the new Kronk Gym, TC!!

Sugar is doing a great job with fighters like Adonis and Anthony Dirrell. He also has another young prospect who is fighting tonight on Dmitriy Salita’s fight card in New York named Anthony Barnes.

Be on the look out for him at 168 pounds…he’s a beast at super mid who can box as well as punch!!

Posted August 22, 2013 12:31 pm 

Joseph Herron

It’s alright, De Lima I…you don’t have to be objective…it’s part of being a die-hard boxing fan.

It’s very hard for me to be objective at times if I have a close relationship with a fighter or trainer, but I have to if I want anyone to listen to the show and read my articles.

Sometimes my objectivity will get me in trouble with some of my friends in the industry…lol. But they understand.

It’s been a very long time since I’ve been able to enjoy a fight as a fan…I really miss that. i miss having a dog in the hunt, so to speak…lol!! I miss going to an event sitting in the stands and being able to cheer for the fighters competing in the ring.

Press row kind of sucks, because you can’t let your emotions temper anyone else’s opinions at ringside who are writing their own analysis.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:28 pm 

Tomato Can

The Kronk team was my favorite in the 80’s and early 90’s. Back then the team had loads of talent with knock out potential at all times…

Posted August 22, 2013 12:25 pm 

Joseph Herron

Emnanuel was one of the few fight trainers who knew everything about the game…promotion, management, mentoring, and how to cultivate a fighter from the amateur level.

Very few men in the sport understand all of these facets of the fight game.

He even cooked the meals for his fighters before a contest…he loved to cook!!

Posted August 22, 2013 12:21 pm 

Old Yank

IMO, Steward was a particularly great trainer for rangy, lanky fighters with pop.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:19 pm 

de Lima I.

Food for thought, thanks.
Like I already said, I must admit that I cannot be really objective when it comes to KP.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:18 pm 

Old Yank

Tomato Can — It stank to high heaven and Mayweather was dominating in extraordinarily boring fashion. Steward was right; Mayweather should have stopped messing around. HOWEVER, we’ve since learned that Mayweather had continuing hand issues. It’s tough (if not stupid) for a corner to ask a guy to bust up his hands when there is no need to do so.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:17 pm 

Joseph Herron

You’re right on point, Old Yank.

This is why I don’t put very much emphasis on fight predictions. Even the best minds in the sport get predictions wrong often.

Emanuel hated defensive minded fighters who depended on style points and making an opponent miss for twelve rounds. He couldn’t stand leaving the fate of his fighters careers in the hands and opinions of the judges at ringside.

He always stressed the importance of the KO to all of his fighters. Yes, it left his fighters vulnerable at times, but he never placed a lot of importance on undefeated records. He placed more emphasis on the entertainment value of their performances.

He knew that a fighter would be a lot easier to sell to the networks if he brought power into the ring.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:16 pm 


I really want Canelo to win and shake things up, but I think it’s too early for him, he needs to fight more champions before he’ll have the know-how to dethrone the exceptionally slippy Floyd Mayweather.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:15 pm 

Tomato Can

I believe you’re right about it being the Baldomir fight. That was a lousy fight…

Posted August 22, 2013 12:09 pm 

Joseph Herron

De Lima I,

If Pulev is able to get past Thompson this Saturday by effectively keeping him at a safe distance and outboxing the mentally strong fight veteran, then I would have to change my prediction in the match-up with Povetkin.

i just don’t see him keeping Thompson at a safe distance for twelve rounds.

The southpaw stance won’t even come into play for this fight. Most people don’t know that Tony is a right handed guy, even though he fights out of the southpaw stance.

This is why Tony is very comfortable giving away his southpaw advantage and squaring up on the inside while throwing effectively in combination. When a fighter takes his game to the inside, the southpaw advantage disappears.

I think this will be the primary factor in the fight. It will be interesting to see if Pulev can successfully keep Tony at a safe distance…Wladimir is the only fighter to accomplish this to date.

Think about that…no one but Wlad has been able to keep Tony at a safe distance.

If Pulev is capable of achieving this feat, it will speak volumes on Kubrat’s abilities in the ring.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:09 pm 

Old Yank

It’s Me, Ernie — I think Steward said that during the Baldomir bout — a real stinker from an entertainment perspective. Literally half the crowd was gone after 10 rounds. Few fights have ever been more boring. But keep in mind Steward also prtedicted that Baldomir would be Mayweather’s toughest test in his career to date. He gave Mayweather a slight edge before the bout. Stewart was wearing a lot of egg on his face based on how easily Mayweather dominated round after round. Steward needed to say something to take the focus off his egg-covered face. So he took a pot shot at Mayweather. At least that’s my opinion.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:06 pm 

Tomato Can

Hmmmm. I respect and miss Manny Steward, but if Mayweather was a Kronk fighter he would have ended up getting knocked out by now, while trying to please the fans and close the show…

Posted August 22, 2013 12:03 pm 

Joseph Herron

Thanks for the kind words, Big Ern!!

You’re right on point with Emanuel’s opinion and personal preference. He always looked for fighters with natural born power to take on at the amateur level. He believed that KO’s were the best way to sell the sport.

I think the brass at HBO has adopted this mentality in their strategy to compete against Showtime and GBP. He would be very proud at the position that his favorite network and former employer has aggressively taken.

It’s a shame we can’t hear his commentary on these upcoming match-ups. I miss Emanuel everyday.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:01 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

I do remember Stewart’s heavy criticism of Floyd’s performance during one of his HBO fights. Floyd was having an easy time with an inferior opponent and wouldn’t go in for the kill. Manny said if Floyd was a Kronk fighter, he would have been instructed between rounds to close the show, give the fans what they wanted, get your check and go home instead stinking the place out…

Posted August 22, 2013 11:52 am 


Tiger wins…

Posted August 22, 2013 11:49 am 

It’s Me, Ernie

Joseph Herron, Thanks for the insight, it gives most of us loyal fans a link to the inside of the sport…

Posted August 22, 2013 11:47 am 

de Lima I.

As for TT vs KP, I favor KP. We will see.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:42 am 

de Lima I.

Indeed, it would be very competitive!

Posted August 22, 2013 11:36 am 

Joseph Herron

if Pulev gets past Thompson, and that’s a big if, I will be very impressed.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:32 am 

Joseph Herron

De Lima I, good points…and if Pulev displayed a much higher workrate, letting his jab go with more frequency and power, i would probably favor him against Sasha.

But he just doesn’t let his hands go enough and doesn’t have the power to keep Sasha grounded for twelve rounds.

But it would be very competitive…especially in the early to mid rounds.

Marco Huck showed that power can turn Sasha into a more tentative fighter…unfortunately, Pulev doesn’t have the killer right hand that Cpt. Huck has.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:23 am 


joseph harron wald over protemkin

Posted August 22, 2013 11:20 am 

de Lima I.

Joseph Herron — you’ve a point there, but AP lacks mobility, good head movement and he lacks conditioning whereas KP has good mobility, great stamina and a great jab.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:15 am 

Joseph Herron

That’s right, Old Yank…very perceptive.

This is why I virtually give him little to no chance of beating Wlad on October 5th.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:12 am 

Joseph Herron

Exactly, Old Yank.

It’s debate for the sake of debate and pretty pointless…thanks for noticing that.

Mayweather will admittedly say things that are very vague but sound great for the media and fans of the sport, like “Skills pay the bills”. But his strong work ethic, along with many other physical and mental attributes, ultimately separates him from the pack.

Just like his mit work…it’s designed to look flashy for the reporting media and really doesn’t serve much purpose throughout the fight.

When has anyone seen Floyd throw a 20 punch combination throughout any of his fights? Emanuel Steward always hated when the media and fight fans made a big deal about Floyd’s flashy display of handspeed through mit work.

Truth is, Floyd doesn’t receive enough recognition by most for his mental toughness in the ring and in the gym. According to Floyd Sr, this was something that was instilled at a very young age.

Posted August 22, 2013 11:11 am 


interesting…AP has more power…

Posted August 22, 2013 11:06 am 

Old Yank

If Povetkin cannot own the distance game he’s in trouble. It is the weakness he’s exposed from time to time. When he finds his “Goldilocks” distance, his activity makes him very difficult to beat. Anything outside his “Goldilocks” distance and he’s potentially in trouble.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:59 am 

Joseph Herron

I found it, KO…great question and great match-up!!

Who wins in a Povetkin/Pulev match-up?

Both fighters have an extensive amateur pedigree and some of the fastest hands in the division.

But, because Povetkin has the ability to fight on the inside and let his hands go in combination, I would favor Sasha by decision based on workrate and aggression. But Pulev has a very good defense because of his calm demeanor and good footwork. It would be a very competitive contest.

I just don’t think he has the firepower necessary to gain the respect needed to beat Povetkin and keep him at a safe distance.

Povetkin UD12 over Pulev at this point in their careers.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:57 am 

Old Yank

Indeed “skills pay the bills”. But never forget that high-level execution of skill is driven from a base. That base has many moving, thinking, emotional and instinctual parts to it: natural twitch response, reflexes, speed, technical and foundational execution, movement of all kinds, a specialized IQ, an indomitable will, and so much more. Why argue over the number of angels that can fit on a pin?

Posted August 22, 2013 10:54 am 


Pulev vs. Povetkin… who wins? thank you

Posted August 22, 2013 10:54 am 

Joseph Herron

What question was that, KO?

I’ll be more than happy to answer anything that is addressed repsectfully.

let a rip, brother.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:47 am 

Old Yank

Joseph Herron — Your voice, knowledge and opinions expressed here and elsewhere are well-respected by those who “count”. I learned long ago that rhino skin is necessary on this and other sites in order to survive the mindless thorny bramble that forms the gauntlet we need to navigate in order to converse with other opinionated, knowledgeable and respected fans, writers, pundits and more. And we all can expose a thorny side from time to time — I’d like to see it overzealous passion — sometimes worth slapping down, sometimes worth arguing, and always recognize that I can be just as guilty as the next fan. Keep the faith brother!

Posted August 22, 2013 10:42 am 


Joseph, you haven’t answered my question –> kubrat pulev vs. thompson – analysis

Posted August 22, 2013 10:41 am 

Joseph Herron

From now on, I will merely post for enlightenment and not get into any kind of figurative sparring session with anyone on the forum.

I will simply leave it to the discretion of the reader to decide for themselves what the truth is.

But I’m done with certain posters on this forum.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:41 am 

Joseph Herron

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Hidalgo…it just gets pretty exhausting after a while to have to explain everything that my years of experience tell me to be true.

Most of what I post on these forums is regurgitated information from some of the best minds in the sport, and it’s shocking to me how some can’t identify that.

Like the description of Floyd’s defensive shell…that is a description from Floyd Sr…not me. The positioning of the shoulder and elbow while leaning back at a 45 degree angle…that’s from the architect himself.

He won’t teach that to anyone who can’t execute it during a fight…that’s why he doesn’t take on just any fighter. Floyd doesn’t have to do this. He’s made enough money throughout his career that he really doesn’t have to do this…and according to Sr, once his son’s contract is fulfilled with CBS/Showtime, he more than likely will retire.

I hope he reconsiders because the world of boxing is losing quality trainers with each passing day. I hope he instills his knowledge in hard working young trainers so they can act as the torch bearers of boxing if he does decide to hang it up.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:36 am 

Brazilian Boxing Fan

I think Mayweather will win by a Unanimous Decision.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:29 am 


BTW, if I didn’t get under Correctamundo’s skin, he wouldn’t feel the need to respond to everything I say about him. Poor girlie-girl. He’s so SISSYFIED. Boo-hoo-hoo.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:08 am 


spelling correction: “prophet.” LOL!

Posted August 22, 2013 10:06 am 


Joseph, stick around and speak your mind. It’s a battlefield here sometimes, but that’s the way it is.

Don’t concern yourself with lost souls like Correctamundo. I mean could you imagine being around this guy in public? I mean really, not only is he an incessant narcissistic loudmouth, the great “prphoet”” picked Donaire to win over Rigondeaux, one of the biggest and most important fights of 2013. That means he was WRONG! Of course everything about that girlie-girl is wrong

Oops, sorry, drifting off the subject. Stick around Joseph.

Posted August 22, 2013 10:05 am 


“and I’d TELL you to stop focusing on me and start talking about Boxing but that’s not GOOD advice for YOU.”

Like I said, when you start showing some class and humility, I’ll lay off you. Until then, you suck.

“You picked Cleverly over Kovalev SO you’re better OFF talking about ME.”

You picked Donaire over Rigondeaux. REMEMBER?? SO you’re better OFF if you just SHUT UP.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:58 am 


“Because the same way you KNOW that you’re under my skin is the same way you KNEW that Cleverly would beat Kovalev.”

Hardly. Puff your chest out all you want. I know better. Girliemundo.

Posted August 22, 2013 9:55 am 

Boxing right

The prediction of Canelo upsetting Floyd is a bold bet and I disagree but I see your reasons. 2 years from now I will hear you. Floyd is indeed based on the amateur system that’s why he is still around in his late 30s. The adaptations are numerous but the bedrock is the same. Then again good boxing is good anywhere, whether you are pro or an amateur.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:36 am 

Boxing Barlow

This is a huge fight and a huge fight especially for Mayweather. One of the biggest factors in Floyds career is that a part from fighting maybe Corales he has never actually fought the guy the public really wanted to to him fight, or he’s never been in there with a guy who the public actually considered had a change of beating him. If my memory serves me right I can recall the days when we were all looking for a fight against Tzyu. Then after Hatton beat Tyszu we all wanted the Hatton fight right there at light welter (it happened but too late in my opinion and not at the right weight). Then we all wanted him to fight Cotto until he got dethroned by Margarito. And from there we all fancied a Margirito fight. Mosely around 06 made sense and he was still considered a threat to Floyd at that stage. And then obviously we had Pacman is THE fight that never happend. Up until recently we all fancied a Martinez fight as well but this has now also faded. I dont mean to be too critical of Floyd as I repect the guys ability but I do feel he has always shy’d away from the big fight the fans really wanted to see. All the above fight either never happend or happened way too late. However this fight with Alvarez can really start to clear his name as they are both prime for it, and the boxing public beleive its probably the best chance anyone has had at beating Floyd. So fair play to the guy for taking this fight. Just hope he can really put it to rest and fight Pacman after.

Posted August 22, 2013 8:26 am 


To say Mayweather’s skills are based on the amateur system is a joke. He is a very unique guy. I don’t like his character but his athleticism, ring IQ and to g generalship demand respect. He will make Canelo look like he does all the rat. He will take any strengths he has away.

Posted August 22, 2013 7:19 am 


After SKILLS and Boxing IQ, SPEED is the main factor. But again thats after SKILLS and Boxing IQ. Manny Pacquiao says that I am CORRECT on that.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:37 am 



Posted August 22, 2013 5:35 am 



Posted August 22, 2013 5:35 am 


Turbo-Hamster LOL! :D

Posted August 22, 2013 5:27 am 

Fight Aficianado

Who the F would describe Mayweather as having an apadted amatuer style?!?!?!? This writer clearly DKSAB. Awful article.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:13 am 


Two fighters, both trained by same guy, exactly the same level of fundamentals, but one has better speed and athleticism.

The better athlete is going to win.

It might not be the MOST important thing, but it is a factor, and it becomes more of a factor the closer in skill two guys are.

Denying that for the sake of an argument is just hairy-eared mental puke-pinion.

Posted August 22, 2013 5:11 am 


Obviously Floyd is a great boxer, but his major skill to keep that zero is not above the ring.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:55 am 


Haimat.., Don’t be rediculous. Mayweather’s great flaw is not keeping his head high and his chin up … and when he throws a left hook lifting his chin even higher and to the right.

Like a lot of boxing pundits, he’s trying to sound like he knows what he’s talking about and his analysis is pure crap.

We get this kind of nonsense all day from the guys you just hammered, Vivek and Smith, and it’s no different.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:45 am 


Don’t forget speed.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:32 am 


By the way age, weight, and style won’t be the main factors here. SKILLS will be the factor. Floyd’s SKILL level will be higher because he’s focusing on his SKILLS while Canelo is focusing on weight AND SKILLS.

Posted August 22, 2013 4:27 am 


ESB comment box is more entertaining than watching paint dry get drier… haha

Posted August 22, 2013 3:35 am 


Age, weight are not an issue. It will always and will be style! Boring style for a fighterwho conserve the action. Floyd could go 24 rounds, fights twice in the same night and win both in a unanimous decisions. This guy master the art of defense!

Posted August 22, 2013 3:17 am 


“And btw assamundo, no matter what you say I know I am under your skin so deep you are frothing at the mouth every time you type “hissydalgo.” Sucks to be you”-Well you’d better go take a KNOWING class. Because the same way you KNOW that you’re under my skin is the same way you KNEW that Cleverly would beat Kovalev. You might call that KNOWING. The rest of us call that HOPING and PRAYING. Your hopes and prayers have fallen short. SO try try again……and it doesn’t suck to be me. Its GREAT being me….I’ve been blessed SO much in my life that all I can DO is praise God. God I THANK you for making me as GREAT as I AM!!!!

Posted August 22, 2013 3:03 am 


Oh look! It’s Arnold Schwarzenheimer! …blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah …Your crop stinks miserably”-LMFAO!! There Hissydalgo goes throwing yet another Hissy FIT. Despite all of his SISSYFIED rhetoric I am HERE and I will remain HERE. ..The FOOL thinks that Boxtradamus RAN because someone stole his nick LOL. You can’t steal nicks here Hissydalgo. All you can DO is copy it. DO the little kids who wear Jordan’s name on their backs steal his name???? NO DOOFUS. They copied him. Thats called receiving the HIGHEST form of FLATTERY….and I THANK my fans for that…and I’d TELL you to stop focusing on me and start talking about Boxing but that’s not GOOD advice for YOU. You picked Cleverly over Kovalev SO you’re better OFF talking about ME.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:55 am 


Sorry, I’m still copying and pasting a list of nameless’ “contributions” to the ESB discussion boards.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:25 am 


“it’s me Ernie is a total and complete moron that has nothing to say but gibberish and Hidalgo is a know-it-all that can’t keep his mouth shut for a f’king second.”

There is a solution to you misery, brainless…er, nameless: Leave ESB website forever. You’ll feel much better. So will everyone else.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:24 am 


Let’s have a look at nameless’ contributions to the ESB boxing boards:

Nameless, I have two words for you and they are not “good luck.”

Posted August 22, 2013 2:23 am 


“enema schnozzle”


Posted August 22, 2013 2:21 am 


And btw assamundo, no matter what you say I know I am under your skin so deep you are frothing at the mouth every time you type “hissydalgo.” Sucks to be you.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:18 am 


” IF every time someone disrespects you you just RUN…well that’s SISSYFIED. ”

Oh look! It’s Arnold Schwarzenheimer! You know, Gonad the Ballbearing! Why did you change your nick from Boxtradamus to Correctamundo you sissy? You ran like a cowardly dog with your tail between your legs because someone stole your nick and you couldn’t get it back. If you had any class or humility or respect for others, people wouldn’t be stealing your nick. We all know who you are and who you were, sissymundo. You’re the biggest girlie-girl on these boards because you don’t have the balls to be a man. If you acted more lilke a man instead of a spoiled inconsiderate little girl, you might get respect from the rest of us. But you reap what you sow. Your crop stinks miserably.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:17 am 


“you throw a bunch of Hissy fits and behave like a SISSY”

Assamundo, the only sissy you know is the one you see in the bathroom mirror every morning when you are getting ready for work. You’re a classless fool. You’re a website troll. And you’re a liar.

Posted August 22, 2013 2:13 am 


TARK, you are making this irrelevant moron (it’s me, ernie) be noticed by paying him some attention. He only deserves your indifference, ignore him and he’ll be even more irrelevant.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:53 am 


enema schnozzle…. NO great trainer will tell anyone the deciding factor in championship boxing is speed and athleticism.. It’s experience, knowledge, superior science, and surpassing skills. I have talked to many great trainers so I know this very well.

If you already have the raw talent to be a good boxer in the first place, without which you shouldn’t turn pro, you can go far as your heart and desire will take you.. If you get stopped, there’s a technical reason for it..

Louis was stopped by Schmeling.. Tyson was stopped by Douglas.. Wladimir was stopped by Sanders.. They were doing something wrong — it’s not as if they weren’t born fast or athletic enough to win… They weren’t perpared to win… They either weren’t skilled enough… they didn’t train right… they didn’t have good enough coaching… or they didn’t want to win badly enough so their focus suffered in some way.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:37 am 

It’s Me, Ernie

I knew you would come around friend…

Posted August 22, 2013 1:33 am 

Britains got talent

for once i agree with ya ernie.

Posted August 22, 2013 1:25 am 


I respect everyone’s opinion… but if it’s wrong I WILL disagree without calling people names… That’s what this website is for… I WON’T disagree for the sake of argument — there’s a lot I’ll agree with.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:59 am 

It’s Me, Ernie

And I’m talking one of those real short ones too…

Posted August 22, 2013 12:49 am 


Herron.., If you EVER say anything significant or insightful I will be the 1st to acknowledge it and give you full credit for it, if I happen to read it.. It can’t be fluff… It can’t be rehash… It can’t be from the “me too” crowd… It can’t be dead wrong… It can’t be untrue… It can’t be unknowledgeable.

Various posters on this board, including Assyrian God, Squared Circle, Bears, Coach Tim, Titopa, Old Yank, and many others have been complimented by me more than once…

Some peopld have something insightful and thoughful to say once in a while… and they know what they’re talking about.

Some people shower you with compliments and expect you to compliment them in return… Some put ignorance, fluff, bias, or BS out there and expect everybody to buy it because they have a radio show.

Won’t happen.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:39 am 


Herron…, “I’m glad I’m not the only person who sees this”


You’re talking to IDIOT Ernie!!! This board’s 24/7 stalker.

Posted August 22, 2013 12:22 am 

Joseph Herron


It’s a waste of time and counter productive…especially when you know you will never be able to get through to some people…no matter what kind of insight you provide.

I’ll publish the articles on ESB and conduct the show…718-506-1506 on Sunday and Tuesday 9PM EST. Thanks, guys!!

Posted August 22, 2013 12:18 am 


why is that American fans don’t support our fighters like other counties we should give it up to Floyd he is the only true American champ out he is saving boxing right now that’s why he have so many ppl posting when they talk about Floyd he is the highest pain athlete is sports luv him or hate him he is good

Posted August 21, 2013 11:34 pm 

Done deal

Well I guess everyone should fight like armatures then. Lol

Posted August 21, 2013 11:32 pm 


Floyd is going to out box canelo he hasn’t fought a guy with that many skills it will show in the ring that all canelo can do is punch he is way to stiff no head movement Floyd will come over top and catch him all nite however if Floyd stay in there and try to prove a point he could catch one of those power punches but I think Floyd will come out on top

Posted August 21, 2013 11:28 pm 


mother f’kers.

Posted August 21, 2013 11:22 pm 


it’s me Ernie is a total and complete moron that has nothing to say but gibberish and Hidalgo is a know-it-all that can’t keep his mouth shut for a f’king second.

Posted August 21, 2013 11:15 pm 


It’s me Ernie and Hidalgo, the odd couple, a moron and an a$shole.

Posted August 21, 2013 11:11 pm 

Ray Ray

I’m inclined 2 think the guy that wrote this is a joker….poor article. Atleast he had balls enough 2 pick Alvarez 4 the win….look 4 ward 2 reading the dribble he writes after the fight has taken place…..FMJ an amateur ga ha ha. This writter is an amatuer.

Posted August 21, 2013 11:02 pm 


“BECAUSE I GET UNDER YOUR SKIN!”-Nope. YOU wish. I call you Hissydalgo because you throw a bunch of Hissy fits and behave like a SISSY….and I just like to poke fun at you about it.

Posted August 21, 2013 10:50 pm 


Herron you still have to have thick skin whether people give you respect or not. And SO should the people that warned you. IF every time someone disrespects you you just RUN…well that’s SISSYFIED. Any issue someone has with me. I don’t RUN. I CONFRONT it.

Posted August 21, 2013 10:45 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

Remember Hidalgo, you ARE a Tier Two member in here which means you posses a form of super-human powers…

Posted August 21, 2013 10:43 pm 


“Take a look at me. My skin is thicker than WHALE blubber. Every single thing these guys say thats NON complimentary bounces right OFF. ”

LMAO! You wish! If your skin is so thick why do you call me “Hissydalgo?” No need to answer, I’ll tell ya why: BECAUSE I GET UNDER YOUR SKIN!

Try showing a little class and humility Correctamundo. You might be treated in the same manner.

Posted August 21, 2013 10:01 pm 


Ward does seem to be injury prone. Not sure if it started when Conte came it but its happening more often since he came in. With all the fighters he’s associated with, at least the known names he has

Posted August 21, 2013 9:48 pm 

Joseph Herron


it’s a symbiant circle…without the promoters, fighters, and trainers there is no sport for the fans to enjoy.

Fans deserve to have their voices heard, but it doesn’t mean they should have cart blanche on insults and disrespect.

Posted August 21, 2013 9:25 pm 

Only when I laugh

Andre Ward seems like he is always in a hospital ward for his shoulder, he might be in a hospital ward for his jaw if he fights Froch again, then he will shoulder the blame on someone.

Posted August 21, 2013 9:18 pm 

Tomato Can

Boxer Mayweather is considered number 1 universally for a reason, and it has nothing to do with Andre being SOG. As it stands Andre is next in line for P4P no. 1, but he better get back to work or he’ll lose his current spot.

Posted August 21, 2013 9:16 pm 


Andre Ward has money, because he doesn’t spend anything on air fairs.

Posted August 21, 2013 9:11 pm 


Remember andre ward cleared out a whole division let me say it again a whole division, something mayweather hasn’t even come close to doing not even close, a bunch of guys call out money, how many guys do you see calling out andre ????? Exactly none at all if andre was a trash talking, money blowing guy like mayweather to influence others in a negative way, he’d have the number 1 spot but no he stays true to himself and god so again andre ward #1 p4p.

Posted August 21, 2013 9:06 pm 


The fans, the Boxing fans are everything, it’s not just the trainers and Boxers, the fans are paramount, they pay for everything, don’t forget that, otherwise people seem smug,like they are above everyone else.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:57 pm 

Joseph Herron


My opinions, as well as everyone elses on this forum, deserve more respect. I’ve said this before that this site used to be great with a lot of fighters and trainers coming on board to share their insight or just to chat with the fight fans.

But anyone who is anyone in the world of boxing doesn’t even bother any longer.

Several fighters and trainers warned me about this exact thing.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:53 pm 

Balleyregan Bob

I thought about the train once, too expensive, so I caught the greyhound.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:47 pm 


Herron IF you’re going to be on THESE boards you need to get you some thicker SKIN….Take a look at me. My skin is thicker than WHALE blubber. Every single thing these guys say thats NON complimentary bounces right OFF. SO take notes.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:45 pm 

Joseph Herron


I’m glad I’m not the only person who sees this…well, he drove me off the comment portion for now.

If anyone wants to chat about boxing, call into the show on Sunday night…and we will be creating a new program designed specifically for the listeners of the program who want to express their views on boxing.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:42 pm 

It’s Me, Ernie

…. “just another example of disagreement merely for the sake of disagreement.”

My thoughts exactly. That’s one of the main reasons he has the ESB douche-nozzle title. He never is the first one to post on a new thread, never. He just lets other folks post then tries to knock them by twisting their words or train of thought.

In fact, the Tier 5 level was formed just for him…

Posted August 21, 2013 8:33 pm 


BTW… Floyd Sr said something interesting about the Judah fight… “He’s faster than Floyd.. That doesn’t win fights.. Skills win fights, not speed.”

So no… These coaches did not tell you it was freaky speed or athleticism that determines the world’s best fighter.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:31 pm 


No problem Herron… Your so called knowledge isn’t knowledge at all.. It’s your opinion, which is OK, but wrong… You have to accept criticism when you’re dead assed wrong on a comment board.

BTW… The world’s best soccer player is Lionel Messi… He didn’t start out as being any good at all.. Coaches said he was too small.. He just practiced longer and harder than anyone else until he had crazy skills.

The world’s best rock climber is Alex Honnald. He’s just a fanatical climber. He would climb for hours until he was exhausted when he was 10 years old. His skills became phenomenal. He now the world’s best known climber, famed for his ability to climb anything without ropes, harness, or safety gear.

In the end it’s skills that make champions… skills that pay the bills… Most people were born with one gift or another… but most didn’t have the opportunity to develop it… Didn’t have the time… Or didn’t take the time.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:23 pm 


Canelo has more speed and accuracy, more power, more tricks (as far as feints, throwing punches to make you open up) than Shane Mosley. He is also as tough as nails. He will walk through Mayweather’s potshots and catch him with debilitating body shots. This will slow Mayweather down. Then Canelo will go for the kill. Mark my word. This kid has great speed/power combined punches and has a variety of different punches and combinations.

Posted August 21, 2013 8:20 pm 



Posted August 21, 2013 8:15 pm 

Morecambe and Wise

Eric Morcambe won Mastermind by passing.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:49 pm 

Joseph Herron


you sound like a nit picking little girl…and I’m done with you, brother.

I’m staying off the comment boards for a while…it’s a waste of time and counter productive wiith you jumping on every comment I post for the sake of debate.

Your counter points to my comments are rubbish and I don’t even know where to begin in response. You contradict some of your own previous posts just to try and counter my insight.

So I won’t even bother any more. Just continue to read my articles when they are published, guys!!

Have a great evening!!

Posted August 21, 2013 7:49 pm 


You’re the nit picker Herron… And the little girl… If I point out where you’re dead wrong you start name calling.

Wladimir had the same speed and athleticism when Sanders knocked him out as after Steward worked with him for 10 years… The difference was his knowledge and skill after a few years with Steward.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:45 pm 


Herron says.., “Anyone can learn fundamentals in any sport.”

No they can’t… Passing is a fundamental in basketball… I see some really bad passers even in the NBA… You have to work on fundamentals every day for many years…

If you don’t put in the time and work, not matter how gifted you are, you’ll never make it.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:40 pm 

Joseph Herron


Here we go again, brother.

You’re impossible, Tark, and a nit picking little girl.

You were referencing defense…that’s the position that he gets in while on defense…or in other words, when an opponent is attacking him.

Again, by bringing up Berto, you just proved my first point about not being able to implement the same skill set without the same athletic gifts.

Perfect example.

Just stop, Tark…like I stated on a different comment board, there are a lot of people who bring insight to the forum…not just TARK.

I am one of the few sports writers who truly provide insight into the fight game…acutally reading my posts instead of being in attack mode as soon as you see my name pop up would be more becoming…lol!!

Posted August 21, 2013 7:40 pm 


…. “just another example of disagreement merely for the sake of disagreement.”

I never do that… I just tend to jump on misinformation… I applaud posters who know what they’re talking about.

I complimented Assyrian God on a great post today.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:36 pm 


The author is an idiot.

Olympic style fighter?

I have never seen Olympic style fighters tattoo their opponents with blistering right hand.

I have never seen Olympic style fighters focus on defense — particular when the point of Olympic style fighter IS TO SCORE POINTS.

Idiot. Go watch some boxing. You seem to be clueless.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:35 pm 


Herron says.., “Floyd keeps his chin tucked and leans back at that 45 degree angle while pointing his left elbow and shoulder directly at his opponent.”

Floyd doesn’t keep his chin tucked at all times.. You can’t actually fight super comfortably and relaxed by keeping your chin tucked.. What happens when you keep your chin tucked? Your forehead moves forward and a great jabber will get free pops on your forehead for easy scores. A forward head is what you don’t want. You want to keep your head back.

Also.., 45 degrees is a severe angle to lean back … and pointing your left elbow at your opponent??? Berto tried that a couple times in the Guerrero fight.. You would expose the left side of your ribcage.

You probably haven’t boxed a whole lot.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:32 pm 

Joseph Herron

And you know this to be true, Tark…just another example of disagreement merely for the sake of disagreement.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:28 pm 

TIt’s Me, Ernie

Joseph Herron has the beat…

Posted August 21, 2013 7:22 pm 

Joseph Herron


I’ve spoken with Floyd Sr, Emanuel Steward, Ronnie Shields, and about ten other trainers about this and they alll agree that variables like speed, reflexes, and natural athleticism is what creates that separation between good and elite level fighters.

Anyone can learn fundamentals in any sport. But without elite level speed, reflexes, and athleticism, you will never reach that desired level.

That’s the truth, TARK.

A lot of fighters try to implement Floyd’s style of defense and are not successful because they don’t have the same speed, reflexes, and athelticism.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:12 pm 


Herron says.., “What creates separation between the good and elite level fighters are factors like speed, athleticism, reflexes, and power.”

Floyd would not agree with that Herron… Judah had Floyd whipped for 3 rounds with his superior speed and reflexes — but the pros are not 3-round fights.. Floyd stepped up the action in the 4th and started connecting with the jab, hook, right combination… He started getting off first and being more aggressve… He had more skills and experience … and he took over the fight on a dime.

Floyd.., “Skills pay the bills.”

What creates separation between the good and elite level fighters are boxing science and skills.. I believe Sergei Kovalev would agree.. Look at Cleverly’s forward head … and also look at the punch stats on that one. Kovalev’s all around skills are superb compared to Cleverly’s.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:05 pm 

1984 Olympics

Peds, seems like even they were taking banned substances, Valerie Brisco Hooks, I always remember her, won the 200 and 400 metres, she run 21.8 for the 200 and 48.8 for 400, disappointing to here that, but the east Germans and Russians would of run quicker if they were there, so I suppose you had to compete.

Posted August 21, 2013 7:04 pm 

Joseph Herron

You’re correct with your assessment of Canelo as well.

Saul is a very patient fighter who has been traditionally a slow starter. Before the fight, I’m going to publish an article that should shed some light as to why Canelo only fights one minute per round.

Initially I attributed his punch output to the old adage, “a fighter who combines speed with power ultimately sacrifices volume”. But that’s not necessarily the case with Canelo

Posted August 21, 2013 6:56 pm 


This won’t be a pretty Fight from a punches landed standpoint because both guys are TOO GOOD Defensively. Its going to be a punch HERE or THERE than WINS each round. Its going to be a SKILL FEST and Pot shotting CLINIC. IF you’re the type of fan who can’t handle that then leave after Garcia vs. Matthysse. This is “The ONE” for the SKILL lovers.

Posted August 21, 2013 6:48 pm 

Joseph Herron

you’re right on point with this one, TARK.

Floyd may be the best defensive fighter of all time. He keeps his chin tucked and leans back at that 45 degree angle while pointing his left elbow and shoulder directly at his opponent.

But what truly creates that separation is his elite level athleticism and freakish speed and reflexes.

When faced with a shoutpaw who negates the shoulder roll to the right side, he still is a brilliant defensive fighter because of his ridiculous speed and reflexes.

People can talk about fundamentals all day long, but what creates separation between the good and elite level fighters are factors like speed, athleticism, reflexes, and power.

Floyd has an extremely high level all of those factors sans power.

Posted August 21, 2013 6:44 pm 


When Ward, Berto, Donaire, and Chambers hooked up with Victor Conte, I predicted things would not go that swimmingly for them. That they could be in for some tissue and joint injuries.

When I saw Berto on TV, hooked up to a breathing device Conte talked him into using, I lost it… I freakin’ lost it… This guy went to prison for pushing PEDs, and he’s able to talk top athletes into taking pills and breathing God knows what???

Conte should be in politics… He’s a damned slick and persuasive talker.

Posted August 21, 2013 6:39 pm 


Tomato Can – Don’t forget, Floyd hits back, and although his punches aren’t thrown with KO intentions, I’m sure they’re hard enough to keep his opponents from rushing in…you saw Guerrero ATTACK Berto with absolutely ZERO respect for his power, and Berto is knows for his “explosiveness”, why didn’t Guerrero attack Floyd like that? I’ll tell you why, he’s FAST, SHARP and apparently, hits hard enough to keep his opponents from rushing in. Floyd’s gonna tattoo Canelo from the jump, that aggressive beast you see beat up Baldo, Gomez, Lopez and Trout will be tamed on September 14th. Watch!

Posted August 21, 2013 6:39 pm 

Joseph Herron

Anything that is physically demanding at the elite level is difficult…you’re right, Tomato Can.

Maybe Andre should take an off television fight in Oakland against Sartison if he really feels he needs a tune up? There’s nothing wrong with that…he can fight whomever he sees fit…just don’t put it on HBO!!

Posted August 21, 2013 6:21 pm 

Tomato Can

And shoulder injuries are not easy to come back from.

Posted August 21, 2013 6:16 pm 

Tomato Can

I was thinking the same thing, Agreed…

Posted August 21, 2013 6:15 pm 

Joseph Herron

Tomato Can,

Unless Ward fights very soon, he won’t be considered at all.

And if he wants to be on HBO, he had better fight at the very least a fringe contender or undefeated prospect. HBO is really doing a great job at making great match-ups, forcing tough fights on champions and prospects who want to make a name for themselves.

Congratulations to HBO passing for passing on Ward/Sartison!!

The fight fans deserve better…Think about how scrutinized Mayweather would be if he fought the same level of opponent after his stint in the clink? He would get drilled.

If Ward wants that P4P distinction, he’s going to have to continue to perform and take fights at that level.

Posted August 21, 2013 6:13 pm 

Tomato Can

Ward, is number 2 in my eyes, but should Mayweather lose this fight, then he will rise to number 1.

Posted August 21, 2013 5:52 pm 


I see something different in this fight different than Floyd’s other fights, in this fight its not so much that people think Floyd is going to win easy but that their nervous that Canelo will be the one to knock off in my eyes the number 2 p4p fighter in the world “behind andre ward”

Posted August 21, 2013 5:35 pm 

Philly Shell

Brick City – absolutely! I would not pay the $60 or whatever they’re gonna charge, but I’ll shell out for $18 and watch it in a theater with a crowd of boxing fans any day. Second only to going to the fight

Posted August 21, 2013 5:19 pm 

Tomato Can

Half of Alvarez’s career has been dedicated to beating blown up fighters. Guys like Lopez and Gomez ran into Alvarez like a brick wall.
Baldomir was past it when he faced Alvarez, but the left hook Saul starched him out with impressed me. While Mayweather won’t meet Alvarez head to head until the time is right, I still think he may have some problems dealing with Alvarez strength early in the fight. Not only is Alvarez very stron at JWW, he’s also deceptively fast. I give Alvarez about a 40 percent chance of pulling this fight out. Which is more than most fighters get from me, against Mayweather.

Posted August 21, 2013 4:58 pm 


Like I have said many times I could care less about those belts. I go with the Ring Rankings and if Ishe wins he should be rated 1 or 2 if he isn’t already. Then he can also fight the 1 or 2 ranked fighter and that will once again determine the Ring Champion. The problem with the belts is you can be stripped for not fighting the number 1 contender, you most definitely can’t hold the WBC and any other belt or the WBC makes you choose which belt you want. If it is not theirs they will strip you of it. The only reason they are letting Canelo keep it at this moment is because they are about to make much money off the Floyd vs Canelo fight. The Ring belt can only be lost in the ring, by moving up or by retiring. Oh and there are no sanctioning fees.

Posted August 21, 2013 4:37 pm 


Floyd doesn’t get hit very often, and when he does, it’s usually by a jab, that’s cause it’s a punch that’s ALWAYS thrown with quickness and it’s the hand/glove that’s closest to your opponent, cause the hooks and straight punches are punches Floyd can see coming, he almost has a sixth sense, it’s as though he feels the punch coming….Canelo WILL have success with the jab, but it’s the other punches I feel will miss ALL NIGHT, his body attack is decent, but when have you EVER seen Floyd stand there and let someone chip away at his body? De La Hoya? haha! Floyd is going to box this kids ears OFF.

Posted August 21, 2013 4:31 pm 


TARK – BOOM!!! Well said

Posted August 21, 2013 4:27 pm 

Tomato Can

Ivan, did I read that you say being that you were an Ametuer fighter takes the fun away from the sport, cause you see all the flaws fighters make? lol…. Interesting, You must really be watching Mayweather in frame by frame motion if you think he holds his chin high. No fighter’s perfect, but very few are as flaw free as Mayweather. Which brings me to this question, How good of a fighter were you? You certianly wern’t flawless were you? Perhaps you should cut fighters some slack, and enjoy the sport, ahy?

Posted August 21, 2013 4:19 pm 


Canelo will need big breathers in this fight, just depends on how many, hes energy levels need to be high, very high in fact. I think he can win 4 rounds, can he win 6? I dont think it is out of the question, but it will be a real real effort.

Posted August 21, 2013 4:05 pm 

Old Yank

FEARS — The fight game is a bit like spreading a STD — felt great while you had no idea what you were contracting or no idea what you were spreading. Just imagine all the fun sanctioning bodies will have when they each have their own different champ again. Where one championship bout takes place now, three can take place in the future should Canelo lose. The temptation for tampering with this bout is MONUMENTAL! And like a good old fashioned STD, everybody gets screwed.

Posted August 21, 2013 3:35 pm 


Floyd uses a vintage boxing style.

Posted August 21, 2013 3:35 pm 

Old Yank

FEARS — Amen brother! Thanx!

Posted August 21, 2013 3:30 pm 


I know this is a little off of the topic, but i wonder what happens to Canelo and the Jr. MW division after Floyd takes the belts from Canelo? I’m pretty sure Floyd will vacate the titles and go back to 147, which will leave 3 vacant titles and Ishe Smith as the only Champion (I can’t think of another 154 titlist). Will Canelo finally move up to a better physical fit for him at 160 where there are a bundle of big fights for him? If Canelo does indeed move up, who fights for the vacant 154 titles? If he doesn’t move up, how long before he gets a title shot again? Most fighters would have to have a couple of fights before earning another title shot, but Canelo is GBP’s baby, so I’m sure things would work out differently for him.

Posted August 21, 2013 3:28 pm 


Old Yank-Keep spreading the Gospel Brother!

Posted August 21, 2013 3:07 pm 


Thanks Old Yank.., Just trying to educate people as always.

Sometimes you have to communicate at the 8th grade level to be understood in the fight game. Boxing is a lot like politics and economics … a lot of junk science, theories, strategies, and beliefs are running wild out there.

Writers dive into all 3 fields from out of the blue—and without a sliver of real life knowledge or experience … Boxing draws more hacks than the other two sciences.

Posted August 21, 2013 2:53 pm 


I disagree with most of this silly article. First of all, Floyd does not have an “amateur” style. When I look at Olympic boxing, I see guys throwing as many reckless punches as possible, because winners in amateur boxing are determined by who throws the most punches, so they disregard accuracy and defense. Floyd is the opposite of that. He’s economical with his punches, but he’s very accurate. He uses his defense to get his opponents open so he can land with speed. I don’t see this in amateur boxing. Also, Floyd was an offensive beast when he was a lighter weight, and it wasn’t until he moved up in weight did he incorporate more defense and less offense, so explain to me how the hell is his style amateur?

Posted August 21, 2013 2:42 pm 

Brick City

Its $20 in the Movie theaters, its almost like your there, great atmosphere.

Posted August 21, 2013 2:20 pm 

Brick City

POINT BLANK, Mayweather wins this!!!!!!

Posted August 21, 2013 2:18 pm 

Old Yank

TARK — Damn old friend, when you successfully connect your boxing knowledge to your mouth some fine, fine stuff comes out!

Posted August 21, 2013 2:12 pm 

Old Yank

PEEJ — Good memory!

Posted August 21, 2013 2:09 pm 

Old Yank

KILLA — Indeed Mayweather had legit 130 pound opposition, legit 135 pound opposition, legit 140 and 147. Likewise, he faced some smaller guys moving up. The point is that ALL of Canelo’s stoppages at 154 have been blown-up smaller guys, a senior citizen or a dried-up has-been. He does not have ONE stoppage against a legit 154 pound fighter — NOT ONE!

Posted August 21, 2013 2:07 pm 


This pundit says.., “One major weakness Floyd has, is that a defensive master like him keeps his head high and the chin UP … indecently high for his stellar status. When he throws a left hook, he lifts the chin even higher and to the right.”

This is complete and utter nonsense… Floyd has a perfect stance and doesn’t have a forward head like 90% of boxers out there. This is a primary reason Floyd is one of the best—if not the best defender of all time.

This pundit says.., “The average age when substantial changes occur is 32-34 years”

This is only true if you neglect to train and elevate your physicality year after year. The odds-makers know that 14 years of added experience is harder to overcome than a fresh young body versus a 36-year-od body.

This pundit says.., “Floyd is a conservative score-and-run artist while Canelo intends immediate bodily harm. Floyd is prepared to chip away for 12 rounds, Alvarez tries to go home early.”

This is not true… Canelo doesn’t care if there’s immediate bodily harm… He feels you out. He probes with a jab or right lead. He doesn’t care if he goes home early. He wants to win the round first. The KO is secondary. Twelve rounds is added experience for him—and he’d love his opponent to be good enough to go 12 rounds—because if you’re fighting the best you’re making the most.

Posted August 21, 2013 2:04 pm 

Old Yank

raygordonreid — Catch you on the flip side of this one ‘cuse I’ve got Mayweather. Peace old friend.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:58 pm 

Old Yank

Ivan — A power advantage requires an ability to apply it — meaning if you can’t hit your opponent, it matters not how much more power you carry. In addition, the apparent effect of connecting with straight punches is why we have sliced and diced weight divisions. On balance, a 154 pound fighter if using reasonable technique in applying his power will be more effective with that power hitting a lighter division opponent than a higher division opponent. Again, Canelo’s stoppages at 154 have come against blown-up lightweights, blown up welterweights a blown-up senior citizen welterweight and a dried-out has been. One would expect good power technique to be effective against these smaller, older or dried-out guys. And conversely, when against crafty veterans who use subtle techniques to take something off what’s coming in, Canelo has not been able to stop a single one of them. A “power advantage”, over clearly smaller guys and an absence of any clear cut “power advantage” over guys with the skills to take something off what’s incoming, leaves me with a sense that this so-called “power advantage” is entirely at best inconclusive and at worst a myth.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:56 pm 


I would like to say I love Floyd, in ways you just can’t imagine. slurp slurp

Posted August 21, 2013 1:44 pm 



Posted August 21, 2013 1:35 pm 


Floyd actually has a good inside game and he jabs to the belly really well. He has an underrated jab. Also keep in mind how Floyd has moved up and fought bigger people. And normally the fighters that move up to fight him have also had a couple fights at the weight they are fighting him at and normally stay at that weight and keep fighting after the loss. The only one that didn’t from what I remember is Hatton.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:30 pm 


It won’t be an exciting fight. Prolly easiest fight for Floyd.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:28 pm 


Mayweather an amatuer style? Granted he does not fight on the inside but to call his style amatuer is crazy. Floyd is more a throwback to an era when there were many great fighters many of which used the should roll techniques.

Just watching Canelo on fight, one wonders how in the world could this kid possibly beat Floyd. He doesn’t even really get great leverage in his punches which is why his power is not concussive one punch power but more a wear you down power. I can’t see any tools from Canelo that would give Floyd a problem.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:15 pm 


@Old Yank: The power difference appears to be in the way they deliver the shot. Alvarez “applies himself” when he can, pushing from the leg and shifting body weight behind the shot. Floyd doesn’t take chances and keeps his balance by throwing “arm punches” because they are faster and safer. Floyd uses timing and range to hit when the opponent is moving and uses the opponents weight against him like all good boxers do. Otherwise Canelo does not really impress me and I am not a fan. My own amateur boxing experience prevents me from really enjoying boxing as a fan, I always see stuff that disappoints me.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:12 pm 


Old Yank, if you want to examine Canelo past opponents. Check FMJ past opponents and you will see how many fighters have come up in weight to fight him. Don’t try to excuse all the facts.

Posted August 21, 2013 1:11 pm 

Old Yank

Now let’s examine every fighter Canelo did NOT stop at 154: Trout was a legit junior middleweight. Mosley was a crafty veteran (past it) but legit at 154. Matthew Hatton was a stubborn blown-up welterweight. Ndou was a cagey blown-up JUNIOR WELTER – a friggin’ 140 pound fighter! Again why am I supposed to OOH and AAH over Canelo’s power advantage? Please explain! Exactly how will this power advantage MYTH manifest itself against the #1 P4P fighter Floyd Mayweather? Look, I’m just trying to break down the other side of this story!

Posted August 21, 2013 1:03 pm 


This guy is on point with this article I myself still give Floyd a slight edge but it’s true Floyd like rigondeaux fight in an amateur style hit ad move which makes a great boxer, I like when he said I’m a fan of boxing before I’m a fan of a boxer!

Posted August 21, 2013 1:03 pm 

Old Yank

Ivan –Look, Canelo can fight and fight really well. He’s GREAT for boxing and an entertainer par excellent. HOWEVER: Let’s examine Canelo’s supposed power advantage at 154 by looking at EVERY stoppage he’s scored at 154. Lopez was a blown up junior welterweight. Cintron was a blown-up welterweight who scampered back down to 147 following his bout with Canelo (and he was a mental basket case). Gomez was a blown-up welterweight. Rhodes was a DRIED-OUT middleweight has-been who was stuck in the headlights with his first bout in the USA. Baldomir was a SENIOR CITIZEN already collecting social security AND a blown-up welterweight. Cuello was who? And Jose Miguel Cotto was a blown up LIGHTWEIGHT fighting at junior middle against Canelo. Why the “F” SHOULDN’T Alvarez look like he’s got power at 154 — he’s been fighting lightweights, welterweights, senior citizens and a dried out middleweight has-been from the UK at 154? Please explain to me what impresses you about Canelo’s power at 154!

Posted August 21, 2013 12:44 pm 


Ivan Ivanov just called Floyd Mayweather Jr., the greatest fighter of this era, an AMATEUR. Then he proceeded to forecast Saul Alvarez’ victory. My advice: CRACK KILLS!

Posted August 21, 2013 12:31 pm 


Regardless of who wins, let’s hope for an exciting fight.

Posted August 21, 2013 12:14 pm 

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Saul Alvarez vs. Floyd Mayweather – style, weight and age issues

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