Gonzo the Benevolent
Edit>And before Ward made the conscious decision to incorporate, or heavily amp up his usage of all that illegal holding in his style to protect his chin, which obviously greatly reduces the amount of opportunity and time his opponents have to hit him with punchesPosted August 10, 2013 3:12 pm
Gonzo the Benevolent
And Ward had well over double the amount of amateur fights Kessler did, and he fought at a much, much higher level and against the world’s elite amateurs. Kessler was still fighting 6-8 rounders against complete tomato cans until almost his 29th fight, Ward would’ve learned way more and garnered much more experience fighting against the best amateurs in the world than Kessler did against fighting those stiffs.Posted August 10, 2013 3:10 pm
Gonzo the Benevolent
Edit>And the Kessler who fought Ward was clearly not the same Kessler who fought Calzaghe.Posted August 10, 2013 3:07 pm
Gonzo the Benevolent
PrimePosted August 10, 2013 3:05 pm
Reading this thread it amazes me the amount hate towards one fighter or the other. As a fan of boxing itself rather than particular fighter I think I can offer a more balanced view than most of the haters on here. I beleive it to be fact that Jones Jnr, Hopkins, Calzaghe and now Ward were/are all time greats. They were all special fighters who at their peaks it would be very hard to pick between them. The best expample of this is that Jones and Hopkins did meet and Jones won the fight, but upon looking back at Hopkins’ career he still did enough to be considered an all time great. Anyone who criticizes Calzaghe is just preaching hate in my opinion. The guy was very mis managed by Frank Warren who wanted to ride the Calzaghe gravy train. Its also a fact that Hopkins verbally agreed to fighting Joe years earlier in the UK for 5 million pounds but doubled his demands on the day the contract was due to be signed. Even with Warren keeping Calzaghe at home the guy was still able unify all of the belts. Hopkins may have been slightly passed it but as we’ve seen since his loos to Joe in the calibre of fighters he has been able to defeat he still posed a significant risk. So these three are all stand out fighter of their era and at their peaks would have hands down beat all the others.Posted August 10, 2013 8:52 am
RAY GORDON REID
GAZ AGREE CLEVERLYPosted August 10, 2013 6:56 am
Agree totally that Joe would have absolutely dominated Froch. Am unsure about tonight’s fight though I genuinely feel it’s 50/50 at the minute. This is really Cleverlys chance and time to shine though, tonight were gonna find out if he’s gonna be the next Calzaghe or just another Clinton woods level fighter.Posted August 10, 2013 6:56 am
God Bless Box Nation. Personally, I blame sky sports and the rise of the PC era for lowering the British publics perception and general knowledge of boxing. I don’t think it’s dead though.
P.s. Froch would never have beaten JC. And Clevelrly to win.Posted August 10, 2013 4:43 am
Boxing is most definitely dead in the UK. This is a huge competitive world title fight. Yet outsite dedicated boxing sites this fight has not even registered. No nation tv coverage of anything. The fight is not even being acknowledged on sports sections in the news.Posted August 10, 2013 3:48 am
154 comments and there all about calzaghe and froch. this is about clev!!!Posted August 10, 2013 12:02 am
why is everyone so off topic. talk about clev ko ing krusherPosted August 9, 2013 11:59 pm
Clev to beat Kov over 12Posted August 9, 2013 9:27 pm
Anonymouse…. That’s sheer nonsense.. Hopkins skills had eroded out when he met Calzaghe.”
Yet on he fights many years later still a handful for anyone. Can’t have eroded that bad.Posted August 9, 2013 8:17 pm
Gotta love the geeks telling us how to beat Calzaghe, GUess 47 odd pro’s didn’t think that going in to the fights??
Eubank admitted many times in interviews on this website that his skills weren’t that good… He said he Roy Jones would have beaten him easy… It’s a fact… Eubanks wasn’t highly skilled. He wasn’t lying.Posted August 9, 2013 6:49 pm
Anonymouse…. That’s sheer nonsense.. Hopkins skills had eroded out when he met Calzaghe. He was 43 for Kri sake.. Also he made the mistake of working with Macky Shillstone for that one — and he was too slow and too muscled for a hard 12-round effort..
Calzaghe lucked out because he got in a hole early losing a 2-point round right off the bat by getting decked again.
An embarrassing SD vs a 43-year-old… An utter disgrace.
Hopkins wouldn’t dream of fighting Ward… Calzaghe wouldn’t dream of fighting Froch… Dawson… Tarver… or even Glen Johnson… Johnson waited patiently through all the postponements but Calzaghe killed the fight. He would have been killed because he would have been right in Johnson’s wheel house with his face first style.Posted August 9, 2013 6:46 pm
Ok read enough boys make you are back here after the fight
BILLY NO MEDALS ALL AMERICAN BOY
HAS WARD RETIRED?HE DOSE A LOT OF TALKING FOR A PART TIMER,Posted August 9, 2013 5:03 pm
BILLY NO MEDALS ALL AMERICAN BOY
JC,WOULD BEATS THE BORING WARD,SCHOOLS HIM AND TARKS A TURDPosted August 9, 2013 5:00 pm
Anonymouse…. The massive advantage Ward would have is his boxing knowledge and boxing skills.. You’ve never seen Ward hurt or knocked down since he’s had 7 fights … and it was Roy’s wrist that sent Calzaghe down, not his elbow, so you’re not very observant.. Joe was ducking right into something as usual.. Joe was decked at least 3 times since he been on the world level. Ward? Never since he got out of diapers.. A very green Ward dominated Kessler and didn’t get hit.. A finished product Calzaghe said, “Kessler caught me a couple times where the alarm bells were definitely going off.”Posted August 9, 2013 4:20 pm
RAY GORDON REID
joe would beat andre wardPosted August 9, 2013 3:49 pm
Personally id go with Calzaghe …. but it would be a close contest.Posted August 9, 2013 3:46 pm
Gonzo the Benevolent
IBF set to strip Calzaghe’s belt
Calzaghe ripped the IBF belt from Jeff Lacy in March
That seems unlikely to fit into the long-reigning champion’s plans.
“It would bother me to lose the title, but business is business and I want the biggest fights and the most money,” Calzaghe told BBC Sport Wales.
“[US TV network] HBO want me to fight an American next, and if a bout with [German-based Russian] Stieglitz doesn’t add up we’ll have to knock it on the head.
“I’m going to speak to [promoter] Frank Warren next week and I hope to find out who I’ll be facing then.”
Stieglitz, 25, has an unbeaten record of 29-0 (19 KOs), but there are no major names on his record and he is unattractive to the American television companies.
But Calzaghe is more likely to meet Rhode Islander Peter Manfredo Jr – most famous as the runner-up in US TV series “The Contender” – in the UK in March.
he’s a big name in the US.
“He would offer me a fantastic platform to showcase my skill across the Atlantic where I’m looking for a big-money fight against Bernard Hopkins or Jermain Taylor in June or July.”
Taylor seems the most likely opponent of the two, the middleweight king stresssing his desire to step up and meet 34-year-old Calzaghe.Posted August 9, 2013 2:07 pm
Gonzo the Benevolent
Edit> and gone about it in a much more antagonistic manner and adopted a much more confrontational tonePosted August 9, 2013 2:04 pm
Some “Slayer” Calzaghe was… Fragile hands and powder puff punches… Tarver and Johnson put a Roy Jones, who was younger then they were, in the deep freeze…
But Calzaghe fought a much older and more decrepit Roy and couldn’t make a hair on Roy’s head wiggle… And had to pick his ass up off the canvas…
The only thing Calzaghe could slay is an ice cream cone.Posted August 9, 2013 2:01 pm
RAY GORDON REID
THE SCOTS ENGLISH REGULAR IRISH ARE GREAT PEOPLE IWENT TO ENGLAND SCOTLAND OCT 1980Posted August 9, 2013 1:44 pm
You know right off the bat that Nathan Cleverly isn’t a cherry-picker.Posted August 9, 2013 1:19 pm
Ward is hands down a better boxer than Calzaghe and would have no problems kicking his ass… Calzaghe’s style is made for prime boxers who have great all around skills. Joe got dumped by old guys. He got dumped by 2nd rater Byron Mitchell. Kessler even nailed him with hard uppercuts. Ward would drill him all night long.
Calzaghe never fought a prime great even though he had chances to.
He was a pretty slick cherry-picker. That was his best skill.Posted August 9, 2013 1:17 pm
Tark, JC would be a bad match up for Ward, Ward is good against slow straight ahead guys, his edge in ring smarts and speed wouldnt be there vs JC, It’d be the oppositePosted August 9, 2013 12:46 pm
BILLY NO MEDALS ALL AMERICAN BOY
TARKS A TURDPosted August 9, 2013 12:43 pm
Johnson was not really a huge name to have, he had been well beaten on numerous occasions by okayish fighters, he caught RJJ at his weakest; If Calzaghes win over RJJ means nothing, then by definition, Johnsons does also.Posted August 9, 2013 12:19 pm
Ward is Slower of Foot than Calzaghe. Ward has an inferior Punch Output to Calzaghe. Ward is Slower of Hand than Calzaghe. Ward has Less Stamina than Calzaghe, Ward has Less Power than Calzaghe, Ward has not got a better Chin than Calzaghe, Ward likes to Travel EVEN LESS than Calzaghe…So where are his advantages??? Power, Speed, Mobility, Stamina, Punch Output, Workrate, Adaptability, Spacial Awareness, Footwork??? On all those levels Calzaghe beats him clearly or at least edges him.Posted August 9, 2013 12:14 pm
If Calzaghe could whip Johnson so easily why did he keep postponing fights with him and eventually kill the matchup when Johnson was at his most dangerous, about the time he beat Roy Jones half to death and put him in a deep freeze???
Funny thing… Joe could beat all these fighters but he never fought anyone dangerous.Posted August 9, 2013 12:11 pm
@TARK – Glenn Johnson was whipped by Omar Shieka, who was in turn Whipped by Calzaghe, he was also beaten by Clinton Woods. Johnson could fight Calzaghe 100 times and lose every one. He was tough, had tons of heart etc, but was always exposed at the highest level, especially against guys with a higher work rate, faster hands, faster feet, better boxing brains and good chins. As for Tarver, he was in a different weight class up until the last year of Calzaghes career, and was beaten by BHOP, who Calzaghe beat…Dawson is and was useless; no heart, poor workrate, no stamina, no concentration, no power= his terrible performance against Pascal, who himself is limited and one dimensional.Posted August 9, 2013 12:06 pm
RAY GORDON REID
neil pomy argreee cleverly was ottke good or badPosted August 9, 2013 11:58 am
Calzaghe ducked Froch, Dawson, Glen Johnson, and Tarver… He kept postponing his fights with Glen Johnson, and then killed the matchup altogether… Same with Tarver… With Dawson he dallied forever and then retired.
With Froch, he kept saying he lacked experience, and then fought Peter Manfredo instead.Posted August 9, 2013 11:06 am
Junior…., “TARK, You LOVE to talk about how flawed Calzaghe was, but how many of his 46 (?) oponents beat him?”
How many were great young fighters did he fight??? NONE!!!
Ward would have handed Joe his ass. He beat the robotic Kessler, who only fought 3 good fighters in his life, losing all 4 fights to them (robbery in Denmark). Ward beat Kessler much easier, without taking any hard punches, winning every round, and stopping the robot. AW had only 20 fights at the time.Posted August 9, 2013 11:01 am
GONZO THE MALEVOLENT
I HAD ABOUT 50 PEOPLE on here trying to literally kill me yesterday, so I probably didn’t read your post yesterday… I wil read it again and answer your questions once done!Posted August 9, 2013 10:25 am
GONZO THE MALEVOLENT
I AM MORE THAN HAPPY TO DISCUSS, ARGUE OR AGREE WITH YOU on boxing terms… I haven’t read your post yet, but will read it and come back to you…
As I said before i am happy to offer up my reasoning on JOE or any other fighter I may express my different opinions on…
However, I will no longer engage with some people (I am not saying you in this instance) who will only offer insults as effectively whatever points we arte trying to mkae will only get lost in the NOISE of verbal abuse.
IF I implied anything untoward to you, then I apologize…. But, I will say this once again, I have no hatred for JOE in the slightest…. He actually has some of the best old school training methods I utlilise myself….
But, only by DEBATING people we consider to be exceptional can we learn more about our sport and our fighters.
I have no problems with people disagreeing with me or telling me i’m wrong, but it’s the tirade of abuse which is a total turn off….
Anyway, I will read your post and try to answer your questions…..
But, tell me one last thing: IS IT NOT STRANGE THAT HE PARALLEL BETWEEN HIM AND NATHAN IS REPEATING ITSELF ONCE AGAIN?
Two men with fan-frinedly styles, supposedly good looking, long term champions have been largely slept upon buy the general public whilst lesser men have become stars?????
I truly welcome your input!Posted August 9, 2013 10:22 am
Your comemt about being ripepd is also incorrect…
I know many guys who train like beasts, but their body make-up means they will never look “RIPPED” as you say—- look at all the greats of yesteryear such as TONY ZALE etc… these guys could go 15 in their sleep but didn’t looked ripped – with all the so-called shakes we have today….
EXAMPLE : Look at ANDRE BERTO – The more ripped he became the less boxing skills he semed to have – or be able to utilize… The so-called next big thing bulked up and was supposed to face SUGAR SHANE, but the bout fell through and MR MUSCLE HEAD then proceeded to lose most of his subsequent bouts!Posted August 9, 2013 9:52 am
Gonzo the Malevolent
And both Jones and Toney are PROVEN steroid cheats, funny how you conveniently neglected to mention that when using them to trash Calzaghe.Posted August 9, 2013 9:46 am
RAY GORDON REID
froch was the who called joe outPosted August 9, 2013 9:42 am
RAY GORDON REID
joe would have beat carl if they faughtPosted August 9, 2013 9:41 am
Ive heard interviews with Enzo Calzaghe making the claims about lazyness and Joe only training 2 hours a day, yet some guy called TJ on a boxing forum tells me im wrong, therefor Enzo Calzaghe is wrong?!?!?!?! Well since you know better than the man who trains the man, i have no place in this conversation, and i will leave this thread now. In the words of Brad Pitt’s Aldo the Apache, ”Arear vedurchee”Posted August 9, 2013 9:36 am
NONE OF THESE LIGHT HEAVIES TODAY WOULD OF LIVED WITH FOSTER FULL STOP.Posted August 9, 2013 9:14 am
Against Kessler and Reid he was like ” OK if you throw 50 punches il throw 100”. Alot of his punches wernt effective, he just threw alot
No, againsty KEESLER & REID Joe waa being outsmarted for long periods.
His head was CONSISTENTLY being snapped back by two guys who could punch hard… He swarmed all over CHRIS EUBANK, but had hard nights vs these two!
Up until he dug that body shot on on KESSLER in the 7th it was actual Mikkel who was threeatening to take over… Then and only then id JOE pull away.
Both Reid and Mikel were levels above the Sheika’s of this world and posed JOE major problems… He could easily have rematched REID to prove once and for all he was the better man…. IMHO ROBIN REID won that bout!Posted August 9, 2013 9:13 am
On this occasion you pointed out its only Brits are raving about cleverly. For the record, i think hes a moron. I dont like his voice, i dont like his big square jaw, i dont like the fact hes better than me at maths, and i wish he would have a shave…………BUT , he will beat Kovalev. Il be here after the fight no matter who wins, and i will take my licks like a man if he losesPosted August 9, 2013 8:47 am
The biggest names on Calslappy`s list were “OLD MEN” Jones and Hopkins, and i don`t care what the Brits or white Americans say, Hopkins won that fight. Jones had been knocked out twice already by Johnson and his Florida neighbor. Knocked cold both times, and yet calslappy could not hurt any of these old guys, further more both of them put him on his but, he would never have survived very long against a young Roy Jones.Posted August 9, 2013 8:14 am
what do you mean you know the game im playing? Now your sounding like a crazy man with a stick shouting at randoms in the streetPosted August 9, 2013 8:09 am
i never rated Calzaghes defence, i seen him take sooooo many punches he shouldnt have taken. He won most of his fights because of the amount of punches he threw, and from all different angles. Against Kessler and Reid he was like ” OK if you throw 50 punches il throw 100”. Alot of his punches wernt effective, he just threw alotPosted August 9, 2013 8:06 am
I dont think that era was weak, but its not as strong as this one. And im also one of the minority of Brits who like Floyd lolPosted August 9, 2013 8:03 am
Just so you know, im one of the extreme minority who beleive Froch would have beat Calzaghe. I think Calzaghe would have beat Ward, but i think he would have made a mistake standing with the Froch of today. Not realy a fan of Cleverley either to be honest, but i can see him beating Kovalev in a really good fightPosted August 9, 2013 8:00 am
YOU AND OTHERS ON HERE CAN BASH MY REPUTATION AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE, but the real dudes will know….I have always tried to back up my arguments and I always will..
I’m here to debat boxing— nothing else and in fact after chatting to lots of pros and ex pros in the sport my aim is to raise awareness on all those parts of teh sport that people try to sweep under the carper such as looking after the pros during and after their careers…
The average fight fan and even diehards as well couldn’t give a stuff about boxers – who after all are human beings – they will just move on and shout NEXT when he is no longer relevant…
I don;t see you offering to pay their medical bills…
NUF SAID!Posted August 9, 2013 7:37 am
Itl b u with egg on ur brit hating facePosted August 9, 2013 7:14 am
Does anyone know if Bhop has been back to the projects since JC whipped him?Posted August 9, 2013 5:39 am
ozzy Clev will win by smothering Kovalev and pushing him on the back foot not letting him have the room to throw bombs, standing at range will just invite the big right.Posted August 9, 2013 5:31 am
ozzy Clev will win by smothering Kovalev and not letting him huim have the room to throw bombs, standing at range will just invite the big right.Posted August 9, 2013 5:30 am
slappy shoulda got his ass over to the states sooner than he did,there’s no argument there.Posted August 9, 2013 5:25 am
Junior your wrong, I love my English,Welsh and Irish brothers. lolPosted August 9, 2013 5:24 am
my apologies Hops went to Canada twicePosted August 9, 2013 5:13 am
And TJ, my last question was not rhetorical, i want you to tell me who was better than Calzaghe in the same era. Lets not forget either that Jones and Hopkins kept fighting loooooong after Calzaghe retired. As for the stay at home B.S, how mant times have the likes of Andre Ward, Mayweather, Hopkins, Oscar, Sugar ray Leonard, etc etc etc leave ”home”? Hopkins went over the border to canada once, and went to Equador and got his @ss handed to him and STILL came away with a draw. I beleive Leonard went to Canada once too. Calzaghe fought in England, Wales, Scotland, Germany, and in the U.S.A. Dont try hitting me with the scotland/england/wales = Britain crap neither because we all hate eachother lolPosted August 9, 2013 5:12 am
Wow you lads had a good night last night – altho a little off topic! I worry for Cleverly in this fight because recently he’s got into the habit of fighting at 3/4 distance however that will be a quick way of losing against Kovalev – Clev can only win this fight by fighting at full distance and using his speed to pick off Kovalev. I’ll be nervously watching this one and hoping Kovalev can’t catch Cleverley flush. If Nathan can win he’ll be going over to the States with HBO backing him – which I think the lad deserves!Posted August 9, 2013 4:45 am
Some Brits should be careful, sticking their tongue in Calzague’ a..hole will make them breathe even worse.Posted August 9, 2013 4:27 am
TJ, not realy sure what your talking about, so yeh il wait nd see what im supposd to be apologising for. Il respond to your comment to Gonzo though; yes you are hating. Your disrespecting and trying to shoot down the legacy and record of Calzaghe for no other reason than the fact you do not like him. No-one beat him, end of. Who was better than him in the same era?Posted August 9, 2013 3:57 am
WHY IS IT THE MOMENT YOU MENTION Frankie Burrows name on this website the post gets pulled???
True boxing fans will know who I eam by Frankie Burrows….
I’m just testing the site to see if they will post this as they won’t post the real name!
Ths is why I couldn’t reply to JUNIORPosted August 9, 2013 3:55 am
GONZO THE MALEVOLENT
i LOOK FORWARD to your attack on me….
You call me a HATER when you are the BIGGEST HATER on this site, with your delusional posts on how great you are…
You don’t actually comment on anything that is boxing related but just BIG UP YOURSELF, so most people leave you alone, because arguing with an idiot leaves you looking like an idiot.
If you can come up with reasoned points on why you think I’m hating on JOE, then fine, but if not get the hell out my face.Posted August 9, 2013 3:47 am
I tried to reply to your post but it got lost in thin air….
When I get a minute I will reply.Posted August 9, 2013 3:34 am
TJ, since when was Calzaghe a ‘career LHW’? And TARK WTF are you doing agreeing with him? Calzaghe fought at LHW how many times? You ole’ boys going to end up with egg all over your faces when the BRITARD destroyes the man your pinning your hopes on here.
read my earlier posts HERE RE CELVERLEY and then please come back on here and apologise like a man…..
iN ALL RESPECTS thanks to weigh-ins up to 36 hours before the fight itself Joe waa really a Light Heavy fighting at Super Middleweight! B-Hop was a middleweight who had not yet grown into a Super Middleweight let alone a Light Heavyweight’s frame…. He’d only had the upset win against TARVER who ate his way into a HEAVYWEIGHT, pot-bellied frame to face SYLESTER ROCKY BALBOA STALLONE in ROCKY BALBOA.
FRANK WARREN was the most powerful promoter outside of KING and ARUM at this time and could have gotten him the fights he supposedly craved years before between 97 and 2005/6 when he laboured on NAZ’s and HATTON’s uindercards….
I am only pointing out my observations and you must agree with me that it’s odd with such a supposedly sominant champion that no one knew who he was or could spell his name.
I think Joe was a good fighter, but he never challenged himself until he fought KESSLER – Eubank was gone by the time they face each other. I’ll give you LACY, and a dubious SD over Hopkins, when you had cheat judge DUANE FORD scoring 117-111 and a win over the washed up and heading towards pugilistic dementia ROY JONES is hardly the greatest resume now is it?
All I’m saying is SVEN OTTKE faced the better quality of opposition during his 20 defences at exactly the same time as Joes’ 20 – which to my mind shows me how WEAK the SMW diviision was at the time…..Posted August 9, 2013 3:31 am
Really excited about this fight.Posted August 9, 2013 3:25 am
Calzaghe was soooooooo flawed, he leaned on his front foot, lead with his face, hands down, he had limited power, no defence, weak fragile hands, he was a slapper, he only trained 2 hours a day, his father was a ‘non boxer’ (who by the way has trained 5 world champs), chin wasnt all that, blah blah blah,………………….. Yet he STILL managed to upset the odds time and time again, holding a world title for over 10 years(twice as long as anyone else), defending 21 times, unifying a division, beating 2 HOF fighters on there own soil (and almost getting robbed) when he was ready to retire…………….Do i need to go on?Posted August 9, 2013 2:30 am
TARK, You LOVE to talk about how flawed Calzaghe was, but how many of his 46 (?) oponents beat him? How many of the past/present/future 10 world champs beat him? How about those HOFers he fought, how many of them beat him?Posted August 9, 2013 2:15 am
@farmhouse pizza, has Kovalev beaten anyone as good as Krasniqi, Bellew, or Murat? errrrr nah !Posted August 9, 2013 2:12 am
TJ, since when was Calzaghe a ‘career LHW’? And TARK WTF are you doing agreeing with him? Calzaghe fought at LHW how many times? You ole’ boys going to end up with egg all over your faces when the BRITARD destroyes the man your pinning your hopes on here.Posted August 9, 2013 2:12 am
Cleverly is counting on his personal referee and judges to help him win this fight. The ref will do all he can to protect him and the judges have already filled out their cards. Cleverly is simply a volume puncher, without any power. Kovalev is a very powerful puncher, who can box, has good chin and defense, but something Cleverly is not counting on is Kovalev’s excellent stamina. He can keep punching extremely hard for 12 rounds. His punches will hurt, Cleverly’s will do nothing. I think Cleverly will run the entire fight, therefore counting on his personal referee and judges to give him the fight by hook or by crook. The fix appears to be in……….Cleverly just throws a lot of punches. Kovalov throws a lot of punches, but with huge power, he will not get tired either, that is a secret that Cleverly does not know about. Hell, I watched Cleverly’s last fight, he could not hurt his opponent , just kept throwing a large amount of punches. This time he is fighting someone who will fight back and when Kovalev does, Cleverly will feel it. Kovalev by knockout…………..Posted August 9, 2013 2:09 am
Hey, Hidalgo, no opinion on this one??Posted August 9, 2013 12:16 am
@TARK…..that kind of stuff makes you sound like arrogant and opinionated. You are trying to put words in a dead mans mouth to turn him into a puppet for what is essentially just your opinion – that`s not cool.
Steward commentated on Calzaghe more than once, and made it clear that he thought he had great attributes – one of which was being able to adapt to opponents, and that he would likely go down as an ATG if not the greatest supermiddleweight.
It`s a complete non-sequitur to suggest that because his coaching style relies heavily on a jab/straight right/stance that he thinks anyone with those would beat Calzaghe easily. Steward was constantly in the media – if that is what he thought he had plenty of time to either outright say it, or intimate it.Posted August 8, 2013 11:30 pm
This is also POROUS Defense vs Tight Defense. EASY Fight to call.Posted August 8, 2013 9:22 pm
NO chance for Cleverly here. This is BRICKS vs FEATHERS.Posted August 8, 2013 8:45 pm
Gonzo the Malevolent
1. Ottke never wanted anything to do with Calzaghe despite Joe calling him out on numerous occasions, deliberately targeting fighters Ottke had beaten and beating them in far more impressive fashion than Ottke had, and Warren making serious offers to Ottke’s camp. Why the hell do you think he fought Brewer, Mitchell, and even Pudwell? He even went over to Germany, Ottke never stepped foot outside the protective sanctuary of Germany, where he won a litany of controversial decision, four of which came against common opponents he shared with Calzaghe and whom Calzaghe had beaten much more impressively.
2. Tocker Pudwell was a late sub for Thomas Tate (the Tate fight was supposed to a stepping stone fight to set up a big clash against B-Hop). The other fella you’re using as a weapon to bash Calzaghe with Will (McInytyre) was a late replacement too (for former B-Hop opponent Antwon Echols, which again was supposed to drum up interest for a bout between Calzaghe and B-Hop). I suppose Calzaghe could’ve pulled and sat on the sidelines (something you criticize him for doing) but that would’ve hardly been very conducive to help raise his profile over in the US seeing as he the later was on the undercard of Tyson-Neilsen and was obviously going to be watched by a huge audience worldwide. Numerous opponents pulled out of that fight BTW, it’s not Calzaghe’s fault that happened or that McIntyre stepped in at two weeks notice.
Another reason why it wouldn’t have been a good idea for him to pull out of either of dates was because he’d suffered from numerous chronic injuries (to his elbow, wrist and hands) after winning the WBO strap against Eubank right up until he fought Omar Sheika (over two years in total) and as a result had not only underperformed in all of his fights during that period, but he’d also been more inactive than both he and his promoter wanted and planned for him to be, so they wanted to keep him fighting as regularly as possible to keep away the ring rust and keep him sharp.
3. Reid was offered an immediate rematch but he turned it down because he thought he was being low balled. Warren offered him £90,000 but Reid, who was not the champion, had been given a free shot a Calzaghe’s title, and in his own country of England, thought he deserved a whole heap more even though Calzaghe (the champion) wasn’t getting much more. Reid turned down the rematch, not Calzaghe. And Calzaghe suffered from numerous chronic injuries throughout that whole period of his career and was barely able to do any sparring for his fights during it. He did like 15 rounds for Reid and was fighting with a badly damaged hand for at least half the fight.
4. And what are you talking about? Calzaghe never called out Nunn. Nunn was a cruiserweight by the time Calzaghe won his world title and only dropped down to fight at light heavy twice during the next few years of his career before he retired. He There was never any talk of them fighting. He was done too… the last time he had a belt around his waist was in 1993.. that’s four years before Calzaghe won his belt.
5. Toney was a crusierweight by the time Calzaghe won his title too. The only time Calzaghe mentioned a fight between them was in 2006 when Toney was a heavyweight and he wasn’t being serious.. he did so jokingly after Toney had been bad mouthing him in the press, to which Calzaghe responded with some jibes about Toney’s weight.
6. Calzaghe did call out Jones on a number of occasions, Warren had meetings with all of the various management teams and promoters Jones had worked his way through back then but nothing ever came of it. Jones was notoriously hard to negotiate with back then and he was also signed to a rival TV network too, which made things doubly difficult.
7. Calzaghe had retired by the time Froch had won his first world title and he was fighting big dogs like Kessler and B-Hop when Froch was calling him out. Froch had beaten nobody (a shot Robin Reid was his best win at that point) and more importantly was a complete nobody in the US, which seeing as the US networks where instrumental in help choose Calzaghe’s fight by that stage of his career, they wouldn’t have been happy about him fighting another domestic opponent again. He’d been there and done that, and been criticized for doing such on many occasions, and against opponents who were considered much more credible opponents than Froch was at the time.
The only time the Froch fight was really viable would’ve been when Calzaghe fought Manfredo, but Calzaghe only took that fight because the US TV networks wanted him to fight a known American. He even had to dump his IBF title because they didn’t want him to defend against his mandatory challenger Robert Steiglitz because he was completely unknown to the American market.Posted August 8, 2013 7:29 pm
Gonzo the Malevolent
1. Ottke never wanted anything to do with Calzaghe despite Joe calling him out on numerous occasions, deliberately targeting fighters Ottke had beaten and beating them in far more impressive fashion than Ottke had, and Warren making serious offers to Ottke’s camp. Why the hell do you think he fought Brewer, Mitchell, and even Pudwell? He even went over to Germany, Ottke never stepped foot outside the protective sanctuary of Germany, where he won a litany of controversial decision, four of which came against common opponents he shared with Calzaghe and whom Calzaghe had beaten much more impressively.Posted August 8, 2013 7:28 pm
Gonzo the Malevolent
testPosted August 8, 2013 7:26 pm
AssyrianGod… Steward was in the habit of saying complimentary things about anybody who had a fan base of good popularity. I don’t believe he didn’t think Calzaghe would be easy work for anyone with a great jab and great straight power punch. That is what Steward preached. Get the stance right… get the jab right… get the straight right hand down… get the footwork right… maybe work in an occasional uppercut and the rest is easy.
You note he never taught Wladimir a left hook to the body. Although Wladimir tries to throw one once in a while lately, in 10 years with Steward he never had a good one.Posted August 8, 2013 7:09 pm
Both men want to make a name for themselves. A lot of people are suprised that this fight is on and Im thankful to be there live. I dont know how many real fans are out there wayching fights live at the venues but wherever you are from try and get in touch with the undercard fighters and get tickets through them rather than the venue or promotional company.Posted August 8, 2013 6:38 pm
You’re right TJ…
And Cleverly has some of the same problems Calzaghe had. Like Calzaghe, Cleverly brawls more then he boxes. He can throw flurries of hooks and uppercuts and absorb punches like crazy, but can’t box well from the outside. Like Calzaghe, Cleverly never developed much of a jab or straight power punch. His stance has many of the same problems Cazaghe’s had. Calzaghe never fought any young boxer as good as Kovalev. Even if Kovalev is short on experience. You can be short an experience and big on ability.
Like Calzaghe, Cleverly is being trained by his non-boxer dad. It is difficult to correct problems when you have no idea what the problems are.Posted August 8, 2013 5:35 pm
I WROTE B-HOP was a career Middleweight facing effectively a career Light Heavyweight in JOE …. I never wrote B-Hop was shot! So, that is an erroneous comment by you!Posted August 8, 2013 5:31 pm
Kovalev will get “Lacy-feid”. Points win for the quicker Cleverly. Better boxer, more experienced, proven stamina, solid chin. Kovalev has beaten no one of real note.Posted August 8, 2013 5:29 pm
I RESPECT YOUR QUESTION
The reason I wrote stay at home is because he never rematched VIKING WARRIOR in Denmark… That would have tested his mettle (it’s a well known fact) that JOE had to be coaxed into fights, because he was so insecure at the same time as being so vain.
He’s called STAY AT HOME cause he’s like he kid icing behind his big brother, calling out all the guys he has no intention of fighting?
Why would the big guns at the ,time come over here for peanuts to face a guy who was not known in the states at the time?
High risk- low reward!
JONES, TONEY, NUNN…
He was trying to ride their coattails to the top.
Last thing – I never wrote JOE was rubbish, but just thathe along with SVEN. OTTKE both managed to rattle up 20+ successful defences at the same time against mostly C Grade, sometimes B Grade opposition….
Very sorry, but the truth hurtsPosted August 8, 2013 5:28 pm
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND?
I am happily married to a white lady, so for you to call me on racism, you really need to give yourself a shake as the only disingenuous person is yourself.
Go back and check the old SETANTA site and you will see all my posts backing up what I’ve said here and also I was part of a small band of s who tried to launch a campaign to get our own boxing channel which we now have as BOX NATION.
I am good friends with influential people in the sport on both sides of the Atlantic and believe me racism only plays a part with the ignorance of fans!
If you’ve really actually read my posts you would know that I campaign for the health and wealth fare of boxers and for these stupid and dangerous rules to be phased out that really have no benefit to the fighters.
So, whatever your name is – you think you know me, but you really know sh**
Examine JOE’s record and let me know if the fighters he beat would not have been beaten by JONES, TONEY, EUBANKS, BENN, COLLINS?????Posted August 8, 2013 5:20 pm
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND
Firstly you need to post your handle, instead of hiding behind your own BS.
Let me get this straight, once and for all I detest people who pick on others for matter of race, creed, colour, religion….I am steadfast on this.
I am one of the few people on here who has posted on at least three different threads that NATHAN CLEVERLY will defeat KOVALOV.
I used to post on the old SETANTA WEBSITE 6/7 years back and I was the first one to get behind CARL FROCH in his bid to take on JOE and I have never wavered in my supports of FROCH….
I also dislike B-HOP and posted on that site that JOE CALZAGHE should have little trouble in defeating a career Middleweight, one who cheated against WINKY WRIGHT, butting him all over the show…. Boy, was I wrong with that prediction!!!
The reason, which is probably beyond your intellect why I am picking JOE’S record apart is because he has gotten a free ride when both he and SVEN OTTKE shared 20 defences each as they reigned over the SMW division at the same time, which should in itself tell you just how POOR that division was between the late 90’s and late 2000’s… IMHO probably the worst division in the sport at the time.
It took JOE years and years to hit anyone’s radar even tho he ruled for so long. Check your Ring Magz to see the list of Top 100 Fighters year in and year out and he is nowhere near anyone’s top 20 until The powers that be in owing were looking for someone to replace OSCAR!
I’ve written on this subject many a time, because it is all true… he barely fought more Han once a year and on the undercards of NAZ and RICKY as Frank and he himself didn’t know how to boost his career!
Remember, this is a guy with matinee idol looks, a fan-friendly style of fighting and and unbeaten record, so ou tell me why he was only known in the boxing fraternity?
I’m not lying….No, I’m not.
I remember being in the pub and the darts got more of a look in on Sky than when JOE was boxing the red haired (must’ve) been Mcntyre or it would have been Pudwill…. I seriously think that was the lowest point of is career fighting those bums!
The reason I raise Joe’s career is because he has been given a pass, but what has he really done? He CHERRY PICKED hroughout most his career and ended with ROY JONES who was a shell of his former self.
I give him credit for beating VIKING WARRIOR, but like REIDDO, why no rematch?
HE called out the big boys in Toney, Jones and Nunn but had no intention of fighting them, so I thought he was a HYPOCRITE when COBRA called him out and he tried to avoid his MANDATORY challenger.
Please correct me if I’m wrong….
I’m not calling JOE for any reason than his record needs to be looked at and reviewed as people are trying to dismantle others. and yes, he did use the excuse of he was scared mod flying. I heard his interview ,on the radio!
When you are man enough to write your handle I will have a proper debate with you, but until then you need to Get off your horse and drink your milk!Posted August 8, 2013 5:05 pm
Hahahaha Cleverly the paper champ and worst Light Heavy belt holder of all time has no chance against Kovalev. His only plan should be to keep his hands high, hit and run, but come the middle rounds his wannabe tough guy, macho instinct will kick in. He’ll drop his hands, go toe-to-toe and wake up with a great view of the rooftop. Kovalev will stalk and hunt down his soft prey, then put the mother of all beat downs on this over rated fool.Posted August 8, 2013 4:15 pm
The key here is that Cleverley CHOSE this guy, he’s not a mandatory. Unheard of for a Warren fighter to rage a risk defending a title. He must be extremely confident about something.Posted August 8, 2013 3:47 pm
Cleverly on pointsPosted August 8, 2013 3:36 pm
clev last ko against hawk (last minute replacement was brutal) karpency and krasniqui victorys were toe to toe action filled slugfests. either fight could be fight of the year. when kovalev watches thes masterfull performances by clev he will know he’s in deep. clev all the way.!!!Posted August 8, 2013 3:29 pm
Brit tard you Gona look like an idiot when clev smashed kol and all you brit hatters will say that kol was over ratted and never fought anyone as you brit hatters can’t stand the fact that Britain has pretty much invented everything worthwhile on the planet wit exceptions to the USA that was our biggest mistake butPosted August 8, 2013 3:07 pm
WOW. people really calling a cleverly win!!! my god! how dense. I cant believe these people are calling a cleverly win. dudes gonna get skull crushed by the skull krusher himself. this isnt even a debatable.Posted August 8, 2013 3:05 pm
You silly, delusional Brits keep riding Cleverly’ sack like he’s the second coming of Christ…lol. NC has never been relentlessly hunted and hit super-hard by a guy like Kova who has sledgehammers for fists and killed a guy in the ring just a couple of years ago. It’s going to be a rude awaking for you retards when you see your boy get steamrolled by The Krusher.
RULE BRITARDIA!!!Posted August 8, 2013 3:01 pm
So how many 15 round fights has Cleverly won (or better yet fought).Posted August 8, 2013 2:55 pm
Cleverly will be too fast for Kovalev. My dough is goin on the Welshman who deserves some credit for takin on the hard punching but IMO, slightly plodding Russian banger. These are the fights that should be happening more often. F the politics, this is what I want to see. May the best man win.
PeacePosted August 8, 2013 2:15 pm
BILLY NO MEDALS ALL AMERICAN BOY
Russians are usually pissed on vodkaPosted August 8, 2013 1:43 pm
clev said “all the punchers i’ve faced karpency hits the hardest. !!Posted August 8, 2013 1:37 pm
TJ – Hmmm, i’m just trying to figure out just who Calzaghe ”stayed at home” to avoid??? Frankie Liles? Thomas Tate? Rubin Williams? Scott Pemberton? Syd Vanderpool? Eric Lucas? Librado Andrade? Jesse Brinkley? Manny Siaca? Merqi Sosa?…..SERIOUSLY now, those were the ONLY North American Super Middles available to fight who Calzaghe didnt beat. Are you SERIOUSLY saying one of those would have beaten him, even in their own bedrooms? The best of the USA at Super Middle from 1997 to 2008 WERE Lacy, Mitchell, Brewer and Skieka, and Manfredo Jr is still rated in the US Top Ten right now.Posted August 8, 2013 11:31 am
@TJ – JC fought Reid with a broken hand and still won. Eubank said JC was the best he ever faced, theyre Eubanks words not mine, and the 1997 version of Eubank would prob beat Ward and Froch. Shiekha? He beat Glen Johnson just before getting beat down by JC, yet everyone was wailing about how GJ would whup JC, Go figure? Woodhall was a decent fighter, Brewer and Mitchell were coming off robbery losses to Ottke. Starie and Reid got robbed the same way. If BHOP was so shot, how comes he’s beat top guys like Pascal, Cloud and Pavlik POST getting whipped by JC??? Everyone was saying how Lacy would roll through JC, yet it was as one sided a fight as you’ll ever see, only AFTER JC ruined him did you guys say ”ahh he was all hype”….Bika’s a champ right now, and Kessler was an unbeaten animal when he ran into JC. RJJ almost beat Lebedev AFTER losing to JC, so faded a bit yeah, but shot, no.Posted August 8, 2013 11:25 am
Cleverly as the ability to box at high pace for 15 rounds and i can really see kovalev getting stopped on cuts and will retire on his stool very similar to Karo murat ..who is mandatory for the IBF. plus Clev beat Bellew who is also mandatory for the Wbc and yet according to dumpheads Clev as only fought bums you don’t fight bums at World level.Posted August 8, 2013 10:44 am
I cant stand all these anti brits on here when cleverly wins all you lot will say kovalev is one dimensional and never fought anyone. But il remember what you lot said and will be glad to wipe your stupid anti brits faces in it.Posted August 8, 2013 10:35 am
RAY GORDON REID
JOE CALZ THE BEST WELSH BOXERPosted August 8, 2013 10:14 am
RAY GORDON REID
i picked lacy over calzPosted August 8, 2013 10:03 am
THAT LAST COMMENT should have been adressed to BARLOW
KORNERMAN – You are correct though!Posted August 8, 2013 9:25 am
REID couldn’t miss joe’s head with the right all night long and rocked his head back tiem and again and was robbed.
EUBANK had a fight scheduled for 175 and had to drop a ton of weight to make 168 for the vacant crown at two week’s notice and at the tailend of his career.
WOODHALL was no great shakes and would have lost to any decent 168 champion in history and the likes of SHEIKA – OMG!!! get outta here. He was as hyped as LEFT HOOK LACY!!!!!
MICHELL was a so-so champ and Brewer was more or less long in the teeth – so yes, I stand by my assessment of JOE, the “scared of flying,” “stay at home” champion who actually was a support to the likes of NAZ and RICKY HATTON for years, because the public at large didn’t know who this kid with matinee idol looks and a fan-friendly style of fighting still could not GET OVER for the first 8 years of his BO reign…..
Two names: TUCKER PUDWILL & KID FIRE MCINTYRE…..
Enough said !!!!!Posted August 8, 2013 9:24 am
RAY GORDON REID
WISH THIS WAS ON EPIX GO nathanPosted August 8, 2013 9:11 am
Eubank was still a top fighter when JC beat him, and JC was ”Green” back then to boot! Eubank himself says JC was the best fighter he ever faced, and Eubank went on to give tough cruiser Carl Thompson who beat Haye two tough fights so try telling Thompson Eubank was washed up!Posted August 8, 2013 9:09 am
Yeah, folks should remember that Hopkins, Jones Jr. Eubank, Brewer, Reid, Mitchel, Woodall, Kessler, Bika and Lacy were world champs…Its TEN World Champs btw!..That aint poor opposition, JC just made most of ‘em look poor!Posted August 8, 2013 9:07 am
Chris Eubank was washed up when Calzaghe fought himPosted August 8, 2013 9:05 am
I don’t see Cleverly KO’ing Kovalev, but he can win a points verdict. Cleverly has a good engine. Sergei has the power to KO Nathan, but can he land the right shot at the right time? Sound match-up and respect to Cleverly if he wins.Posted August 8, 2013 8:59 am
As for Calzaghe facing poor opposition – Chris Eubank was an excellent fighter, and arguably better than any SM out there today. Mitchell and Brewer were former World Champs who were jobbed by Ottke, Woodhall was also a former world champ, Shieka was coming off a win against Glenn Johnson (who some people ridiculously claim Calzaghe ducked), Viet was 30-0 and highly ranked, Reid was another former world champ, Starrie was a good, slick fighter, Ferriera was useful, Kessler was seen as a beast, and again a World Champ, as was Lacy, Bika is a champ right now., as is BHOP, and RJJ was a former champ to, not to mention 3 or 4 fighters who were unbeaten at the time Calzaghe defeated them……so NINE former, concurrent or future world champs in title fights aint bad!…..Also ANY long reigning champ is going to face some mediocre fighters, just ask Larry Holmes or Joe Louis! They all have a Manfredo or a Pudwill or 5 on their resumes.Posted August 8, 2013 8:59 am
RJJ did turn down a fight also, but unlike BHOP, it wasnt necessarily out of cowardice, Calzaghe was not a big name at that time, so high risk, low reward=no sense financially or career wise..RJJ not fighting Michalcewski is another matter!Posted August 8, 2013 8:50 am
BHOP certainly did duck out of fights with Calzaghe, twice! Then, when he moved up in weight, instead of the logical move to SM where Calzaghe just happened to be, he skipped up to LHW and got Calzaghe to move up to meet him in his own back yard, where Calzaghe outboxed, outfought, outguts and outthought him. Forget the MD, that was an attempt at home cooking by an unknown judge, forget also BHOP being ”past it” ..some of his best wins came just before and since his loss to Calzaghe…proving without doubt he was not past it. After all, he is still at the top now.Posted August 8, 2013 8:48 am
Was Vince drunk?Posted August 8, 2013 8:46 am
Waren revealed docs that Hopkins bailed out of negotiations with Calzaghe four times over the yearsPosted August 8, 2013 8:41 am
Warren revealed docs proving that Hopkins over the years turned down three previous opportunities against Calzaghe I remember reading an article that Calzaghe was calling out RJJ well before the Ruiz fight.Posted August 8, 2013 8:38 am
Tyrone I cant recall JC calling out RRJ or B-hop years back,maybe he did but his lame excuse of scared to fly on planes was good enough foe many, he must have gotten over his phobia by the time RRJ and B-hop was way past prime,handy eh.Posted August 8, 2013 8:11 am
boxing barlow- did you actually see the Robin Reid fight? Reid had a good argument for the win, some say he was robbed.Posted August 8, 2013 8:06 am
Vince Cleverly says “Nathan is going to be Kovalev’s dream breaker,”
I wouldnt call his Cleverly’s style necessarily fan friendly but he is definitely willing to take all the best. Plus, he’s been calling out Hopkins and Froch for a long time but to no avail. Likwise, Calzaghe called out RJJ and Bhop for many years before they finally foughtPosted August 8, 2013 7:39 am
TJ – LOl you post dont half make me laugh you are so ill informed. Cleverly has a better record at this stage in his career than Joe did after 8 years as WBO champ? So lets look at Cleverly. He has literally two decentish names on his resume in Bellew and Murat. Calzaghe on the other hand after 8 years as champ had Chris Eubank, former WBC and should have been two time champ were it not for the cheating germans, Robin Reid, a peak and dangerous Omar Sheika, whats should have been a unification fight were again it not for the cheating German Charles Brewer, WBC belt holder Richie Woodall, and Former champ Byron Mitchel. All of these fighters are probably superior to Bellew and Murat. I’m not slaggin Cleverly off as I ratethe guy, its just your comment is stupid.Posted August 8, 2013 7:35 am
IT’S VERY STRANGE
for a guy in Nathan who has a seemingly “fan friendly” (I hate that term) style of fighting… ie face first (at times)…. that he has still not captured the fight public’s attention.
He had his most attractive bout with TONY BELLEW a years or so back, but like his old pal CALZAGHE, refused to give him a rematch, opting to take on lesser, more unworthy foes.
Herein lies the CONUNDRUM. Just like his mate CALZAGHE he has toiled in obscurity whilst putting up his BO belt against challengers who barely deserve to be called challengers – although at this stage of his career he has faced much better opposition than Joe did for most of his first 7-8 years as champion!!!!
He should have given BELLEW an immediate rematch that would have sold like hot akes after the first bout!
CLEVERLY is a MENSA student and a Graduate at Maths from university but he mostly chooses to fight like a blockhead.
BUT, in this bout he will box to order and out hustle Kovalev on workrate….Posted August 8, 2013 7:15 am
RAY GORDON REID
cheverlyPosted August 8, 2013 6:57 am
Squared-Circle Real Talk (a.k.a. The Lion King of Beat Street)
Keep dreamin’, Brtits! Cleverly is a good fighter and a high-volume puncher, but he simply doesn’t have the power to keep Kova off of him.
Cleverly will be expending a tremendous amount of energy with high- volume punches and constant movement, so will gass-out by the mid-to-late rounds. If it goes that far, Kova will simply stop him with a flurry of power shots. Cleverly has never been in the ring with this type of ruthless, KO machine before.
Kova will win this fight and this rankings and reputation, as a brutal finisher, will continue to rise. Real talk.Posted August 8, 2013 6:50 am
This is gonna be a helluva fightPosted August 8, 2013 6:47 am
Fathers are usually delusional.Posted August 8, 2013 6:29 am