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CORRECTAMUNDO

Nope. It tells you and every other ESB poster that my eyes are GREATER than yours. Therefore you should defer to me when it comes to evaluating Boxers.

Posted August 4, 2013 10:38 pm 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Ward’s Ring generalship is right UP there with Floyd’s and Rigo’s. As a matter of FACT you can’t make my Top 10 or honorable mention without Ring Generalship. Controlling the Fight is one of the main keys on Fight night though you can still WIN without it….its just more difficult to.. Golovkin can give Ward a RUN for his money but when it comes down to it Ward will BULLDOG him. Ward’s will power is unbreakable.. .and when yyou add that with his SKILL set of not only CLEAN SKILLS but dirty SKILLS TOO and he will find a way to WIN. That’s why I’m betting on him every time

Posted August 3, 2013 8:36 pm 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Golovkin SPANKED Canelo before he added Head movement to his game. Golovkin is very GOOD but I can’t say he displays more SKILLS than anyone in my Top 10. He is possibly better than Wlad though. Wlad can’t even throw an uppercut. But he’s SO GOOD at what he DOES that he doesn’t need one

Posted August 3, 2013 8:24 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

Gonzo is Gonzo. Gonzo is a Tier 1 poster. Everyone else is Tier 2 or lower. Tier 2 level posters are held in the highest possible esteem by maestro Gonzo and all those below Tier 2. For a poster to attain Tier 2 status they must have amassed a bare minimum of 2,000,000 ESB ranking points and penned at least 50 posts maestro Gonzo deems of Gonzo-esque quality standard.

Posted August 3, 2013 2:33 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

Brother Ernie.. While I’m in agreement with you regarding the magnificence and sheer lucid splendiferousness of Brother Turbo-Hamster’s post, you missed out the best part of it Brother.

To quote:

”Gonzo however is the reason I return to the comments section.

I can pretty much guarantee what I`ll get fromeveryone else”

”But Gonzo, well you know that you are getting some spleen, but it is the direction, and manner of the venting which intrigues.”

Posted August 3, 2013 2:16 pm 


Gonzo the Dragonborn

ROFL Brother Turbo-Hamster. Seriously high quality postings there.

Them little babies are almost first tier Gonzo standard. Well, they’re definitely upper echelon tier 2 standard if not quite that.

And grazie mile for the kind words. I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment behind them, as indeed I’m sure everyone else on here does too.

There is one thing that you’re guaranteed to always get from maestro Gonzo, regardless of what manner or mode he so chooses to post in or under. Be it serious and insightful or light-hearted, jovial and flippant Gonzo is committed to providing the ESB Brotherhood with the highest possible quality postings known to humanity, and I have it on very good authority that he shall be endeavouring to do so for the foreseeable future too.

Posted August 3, 2013 2:11 pm 


It’s Me, Ernie

Post of the week right here:

“TARK will try to convince everyone that he met Sly Stallone and that the character “Micky” is actually based on him and that he is the greatest coach/analyst in the world”.

LMAO!…

Posted August 3, 2013 1:09 pm 


TARK

Golovkin is a supremely skilled fighter… He is detroying people who gave Martinez Hell, and he whipped Canelo in the gym.. Donaire is still ahead of Mares despite problems he’s been having with his left shoulder.. Ward has been having shoulder problems as well..

Ward is good, but he been very lucky… He hasn’t had to face one good prime boxer-puncher as of yet … Froch is a good fighter but a poor defender.

Posted August 3, 2013 2:32 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“LOL! Correctamundo takes all the current champions–except Kovalev (in the second list) and puts them in a top 10 list. LMAO! Wow! That was hard wasn’t it? BTW, you need to replace Kovalev with Mares.”-Nope. CORRECTAMUNDO took the MOST SKILLED Boxers in the World and put them in a list. Whether they’re a CHAMP or not is no factor in that. That’s why Mikey Garcia, Juan Manuel Marquez, and Sergei Kovalev still make the list.. ..and NO Kovalev is a more devastating and SKILLED Boxer than Mares. But Mares isn’t TOO far behind. SO Kovalev stays where he IS.

Posted August 3, 2013 12:14 am 


Ghost Rider

Large stash of tranny porn for sale.

The owner has been an avid collector for over 25 years.

In excess of 1500 feature length films & 3000 magazines (all in reasonable condition)

$1000 the lot.

Contact Tark.

Posted August 2, 2013 5:46 pm 


Ghost Rider

Keep guessing.

Ghost Rider’s identity still remains a mystery.

Who can he be I wonder?

Posted August 2, 2013 2:06 pm 


Ghost Rider

Tark walks into a bar

Bartender says, ”How can I be of service sir?”

Tark replies,” Pull your pants and let me let me gobble you off”

Bartender replies,”I’m sorry sir but I don’t think I can do that”

Tark replies, ”You see this shotgun? If those pants aren’t around your ankles by the time I count to three”

Posted August 2, 2013 2:02 pm 


PEEJ

Na Martinez is overrated. His first defense was against a 154 fighter that only moved up for that fight and went back down. The other fighters he fought had no titles, weren’t known. He had and still has challenges yet he hasn’t taken them. He used the excuse if who are they, they don’t bring money and continued to call out Floyd and Pac. Reality is Martinez doesn’t bring any money neither.

Posted August 2, 2013 11:02 am 


Hidalgo

LOL! Correctamundo takes all the current champions–except Kovalev (in the second list) and puts them in a top 10 list. LMAO! Wow! That was hard wasn’t it? BTW, you need to replace Kovalev with Mares.

Posted August 2, 2013 9:49 am 


Hidalgo

“Nope. I took Soto-Karass by split haired WIN and I was CORRECT yet again! !!” No you didn’t.

Posted August 2, 2013 9:45 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Overall SKILLS + Boxing IQ

1. Mayweather
2. Rigo
3. Ward
4. Marquez
5. Vitali Klitschko
6. Mikey Garcia
7. Wlad Klitschko
8. Broner
9. Mares
10. Canelo

Posted August 2, 2013 6:42 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

The Top 10 Boxers right now based on SKILLS are:

1. Mayweather
2. Rigo
3. Ward
4. Mikey Garcia
5. Vitali Klitschko
6. Kovalev
7. Marquez
8. Broner
9. Canelo
10. Wlad Klitschko

#0 P4P Honorable mention
Moreno, Donaire, Pacquiao, Hopkins, Bradley, Crawford, Martinez, Matthysse, Mares, Haye, Golovkin, Hopkins, Omar Narvaez, Chris John, Dirrell, Froch, Stevenson, Cotto and Russell Jr.

Posted August 2, 2013 6:36 am 


Anonymous

Thank you for being honest Mongrel. I don’t agree with all of your last statement, but at least you’ve the balls to write who you really are, unlike the cowardly Ghost Rider or the other Anonymous.

Posted August 2, 2013 5:06 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

,” you did pick Berto over Soto-Karass”-Nope. I took Soto-Karass by split haired WIN and I was CORRECT yet again! !!

Posted August 2, 2013 3:07 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“LMFAO!!! Now why would a “prophet” like you do something like that? Ever?”- I KNOW. LOL. TELL me about it. I should’ve known better. I was TOO lazy to DO my own homework on two insignificant Boxers. I SURE won’t DO it again.

Posted August 2, 2013 3:05 am 


Anonymous

Ghostrider = Turbo – Hamster.

If you guess correctly I give you my word that I will reveal my true identity to you.

So please ?

Posted August 2, 2013 3:02 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“I bet if I handed you a roll of hand wrap right now you couldn’t properly wrap your hands. You’ve never boxed in your life. You’re too much of a talker”-I bet that regardless of IF my hands are wrapped properly or not I’d still knock you out. Because hands being wrapped properly is not the factor. SKILLS is the factor. Joe Calzaghe’s career says that I am CORRECT on that.

Posted August 2, 2013 3:01 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“Now Dipstickamundo thinks he was blessed with wisdom by God. Yeah right. Just like Guerrero was blessed by God to beat Mayweather. That was a total failure. Just like you.”-Nope. I KNOW I was blessed. Guerrero THOUGHT he was blessed. Thats why I predicted the GREATEST KO in the History of Boxing while Guerrero LOST the Biggest Fight of his LIFE….Another GOOD guess by you though….but NO Cigar.

Posted August 2, 2013 2:56 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“LOL!”-LMFAO!!! Hissydalgo thinks that laughing can change the FACTS.

Posted August 2, 2013 2:52 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“Liar”-Nope. I’m a TRUTH teller and a FACT stater. NICE guess though.

Posted August 2, 2013 2:50 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“Sounds like groveling excuse-making to me.”-I didn’t pick the LOSER so I don’t need any excuses. Sounds like I’m a WINNER once again to me.

Posted August 2, 2013 2:43 am 


te tumbo

“Sorry but in my eyes [Martinez] is overrated and does not warrant a P4P ranking in any form” OHH?! completely Assed-Out!? Denied?!? not even an honorable mention? that’s harsh. too harsh. from Bunema to Chavez Jr., Martinez went on an undefeated tear (F’k the “official scorecards”) in and above his accustomed weight-class. Cintron, Pavlik, Williams x 2, undefeated Dzinziruk, undefeated Chavez Jr. i can’t blame Martinez for the quality of competition. ultimately, he gets credit for facing them all as well as enduring some bogus scorecard nods in his opponent’s favor. so he underwhelmed v Murray. at his age, it could be a mere stutter-step or the moment his sustained prime finally came to end, but that’s pure speculation. his undefeated tear through the middleweight ranks v. a notable roster of designated winners is very real, documented, and in the books. in some small form, Martinez deserves his P4P props. he’s Earned them.

Posted August 2, 2013 12:54 am 


TARK

Douglas had been knocked out a few times, including once by Mike White.. Tyson was a dynamite hitter.. So anybody who made out on that one is pretty damned good.

Posted August 1, 2013 11:36 pm 


TARK

That’s one I missed… Sadly enough. I just wasn’t paying attention.

I did pretty well when he took on Holyfield though..

Posted August 1, 2013 11:32 pm 


International Court of Justice

@TARK…..I always knew a big, tall, strong, fast, young, skilled, complete heavyweight was going to beat Tyson….

So I guess you took some of that 50-1 action for the Douglas fight? How much did you make, wow I bet it was like $500,000……

Posted August 1, 2013 10:52 pm 


It’s Me, Ernie

lmao @Ghost Rider. The Douche-nozzle Tard doesn’t have a clue…

Posted August 1, 2013 10:32 pm 


Ghost Rider

Ghost Rider is not Ernie.

Guess again.

If you guess correctly I give you my word that I will reveal my true identity to you.

Posted August 1, 2013 9:37 pm 


PEEJ

I don’t think he is tested and proven champion. Yes he beat Pavlik and even though it was not the same Pavlik to beat Taylor I give him credit for it. Knocking out Williams was very nice but he never capitalized on those wins. And Williams is overrated in my opinion. No his title defenses are weak. There where titlest calling him out and he chosed to fight people that nobody new at the time. Got knocked around by Macklin until Macklin ran out of gas. And he most definitely should of last his last fight. Sorry but in my eyes he is overrated and does not warrant a P4P ranking in any form.

Posted August 1, 2013 8:39 pm 


TARK

Ghost Rider is Ernie Enema drinker… Different day, same Enema snooter

Posted August 1, 2013 5:38 pm 


Ghost Rider

A Tark:

n.

1. An annoying know-it-all.
2. A person who likes to indulge in eating their own faeces.
3. A thick hairy congenital mole like growth on an old ladies tit.
4. Someone who partakes in the act of watching animal porn.

Posted August 1, 2013 5:11 pm 


te tumbo

PEEJ, Martinez is a tested and proven active champion. he keeps on competing despite being Robbed by American scorecards and has exposed hype-jobs who were being touted as “the next best thing”, e.g., Pavlik and Williams. his 12-round v. Chavez Jr. is a classic of ATG resilience. IMO, he took harder shots than the one that initially Dropped him to survive the 12th round of a fight that he was othewise dominating. perhaps the damage that Martinez has absorbed is going to handicap him in the near future. particularly at his advanced fighting age but that’s speculation. what he’s already accomplished is in the books and on the record.

Posted August 1, 2013 4:58 pm 


te tumbo

the first superior heavyweight that defeated Tyson was Henry Tillman. he did twice during the Olympic trials and took Tyson’s spot on the 1984 Olympic team. anybody who watched that fight saw the blueprint and critical factors for defeating Tyson: fundamentally-sound boxing skills and No Fear. Tillman lost to Tyson as a pro but what he was able to do v. Tyson as an amateur is essentially what Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis did to defeat Tyson. stand their ground, exploit the openings, and close the show v. a wilting Iron Mike who even in his prime was only a 5-round fighter. after that he became a leaning heavy desperate to land the single KO punch but that’s not going to happen v. poised and skilled boxer-punchers. although, it almost did v. Buster but he refrained from pissing his shorts, got up, and continued to deliver the boxing lesson that won the bout.

Posted August 1, 2013 4:43 pm 


te tumbo

TJ, your anecdote about “the next best thing” is an experience that wisened me up decades ago as far as citing great and active fighters. why speculate about future success when the finished products are already there to be recognized? my list of favorite fighters would differ from my list of fighters who have actually proven themselves to be great, e.g., Jhonny Gonzalez is a personal favorite but he keeps losing the big fights. a couple of times in cruel and dissapointing fashion, e.g., v. Penalosa and Vasquez. both bouts that he was winning in impressive fashion if not for single but dramatically effective punches. a bodyshot by the battered Penalosa and a flush-shot to the jaw by the beaten but not defeated and always dangerous Vasquez. Ward represents the best of both worlds. i love his style, fearlessness, and ring-smarts. he’s mastered the art of engaging without paying the tax and he’s done so v. the absolute best competition in his division without even coming close to losing. he’s done such a thorough job of dominating his peers, he’s gonna have to practically restart his career with a completely new batch of contenders. he is poised to take over Floyd’s #1 spot even before Mayweather officially retires.

Posted August 1, 2013 4:35 pm 


TARK

I always knew a big, tall, strong, fast, young, skilled, complete heavyweight was going to beat Tyson… It’s a little like Marciano… Tyson had more successful title defenses than Marciano ever did… and he fought bigger, taller, stronger, younger, tougher heavyweights — but he never faced really skilled young heavyweights who could sustain an offense.

And obviously with his offensive minded game, he wasn’t going to improve a whole lot with age. His lifestyle didn’t help either. He was kind of like Joe Louis that way … They both peaked at 21. When I first saw Juan Manuel Lopez I could see somebody with a great jab was going to do him in.

Posted August 1, 2013 4:27 pm 


TARK

Here’s the difference between offense and defense…

Juan Manuel Lopez was a great offensive fighter. He blazed across the sky like a comet. But he’s petting much shot at a young age. He couldn’t defend.

Mikey Garcia has a great offense as well—but he’s a great defender too… So Mikey Garcia will still be here 10 or 12 years from now with no damage—that is if he wants to keep boxing that long. Defense is something he wants to master and works at it on a daily basis.

This is why I’m not that high on Robinson. He had one of the greatest chins, but he was too easy to hit—and avoided the great punchers like Burley and Moore who guys like Ezzard Charles were anxious to fight… Charles has 5 wins over these two with no losses.

Charles looked terrible by 1953 when Harold Johnson and Nino Vades beat him… Nobody could understand it… Years later on Charles was diagnosed with ALS… ALS is something that creeps up on you for years before the symptoms become so pronounce you seek medical help.. Until then you caulk it up to lack of sleep… overtraining… wrong diet… stress… muscle strain… or just not having a good night… Until Charles couldn’t hold a butter knife.. That’s when he knew something really bad was happening to him and sought out a doctor.

Posted August 1, 2013 4:14 pm 


TARK

NO WAY…. That’s an elaborate excuse.. If Holyfield were facing the Douglas who fought Tyson he would have knocked him out late.

Douglas couldn’t defend that well and couldn’t take a punch either.

Posted August 1, 2013 4:05 pm 


TJ

TARK

Tyson never met any good young heavyweight until he faced Douglas… He did it all with his great offense and his ability to take hard shots was even a lot better than Joe Frazier’s.. Foreman crushed Frazier easily.. Young defended Foreman easily.. That’s the difference.

On that night I truly believe JAMES BUSTER DOUGLAS would have beaten any Heavyweight in history… His mother had just died and he produced a performance that was out of this world… His jabbing and combination punching were unreal and he never produced a performance like that either before or after the TYSON fight….

A really weird thing… I remember waking up on Sunday morning, with the feeling something momentous had happened (I woke up with the same feeling when PACMAN got KO’D by JMM – still haven’t seen the fight yet either)! I tuned into the World Service radio and they announced the shock news and we all had to wait until sunday eveniing to watch the fight….

Fought in almost silence in the Tokyo dome if I rememnber, that fight was etched onto my mind until I got a chance to see it again a few years ago….

Douglas was nigh on perfect that night and even dusted himself down when IRON MIKE hit him with his Sunday punch!!!!!!

Posted August 1, 2013 3:56 pm 


TJ

te tumbo

I can’t argue with anything you said…. This is why we need t obe careful as so many nebies turn out to be busted flushes…

I remember as a young schoolboy the magazines gushing about a Lightweight boxer supposed to be the next big thing…. wouldn’t you know it, next time out he got hammered and that was about that!

Longevity is a good barometer as well as beating the best around you, but so far Mikey is doing this and making it look easy!!!

Posted August 1, 2013 3:49 pm 


TARK

Let me correct that… Hearns was a great fighter… Just had a lousy defense. That’s why he ducked the hardest punchers of his day. Hagler couldn’t punch that hard. He was just a lot stronger and tougher than Hearns and there was no way Hearns was going to win a firefight with him..

Same goes for Iran Barkley… Barkley couldn’t defend worth a damn.. But he could throw hard enough to get a weak defender like Hearns out of there.

Posted August 1, 2013 3:47 pm 


TARK

@TJ…. I totally disagree that Tyson could defend well… Or that Duran was a great defender… Or that Hearns was any good…

Tyson never met any good young heavyweight until he faced Douglas… He did it all with his great offense and his ability to take hard shots was even a lot better than Joe Frazier’s.. Foreman crushed Frazier easily.. Young defended Foreman easily.. That’s the difference.

Mike got hit with tremendous punches by Bruno and Tucker… But like Evander Holyfield said, “Mike never met a young heavyweight who could sustain an offense.”

Duran simply ducked McCallum, Jackson, Norris, and anybody else who could hit.

When Duran heard Vinny Paziensa was fighting Roy Jones, he said, “Paziensa is an idiot.. He’s going to get killed.”

Posted August 1, 2013 3:42 pm 


TARK

And I forgot Ward.. He’s in the Top-10.. From my previous list I’d dump Bradley and Pacquiao.

Posted August 1, 2013 3:34 pm 


TJ

TARK

I forgot to add the countless hours of defensive drills he did, bobbing and weaving his torso… How many times did Mike get punched in hos first 20 odd bouts??? Hardly any… Perhaps vs QUICK TILLIS and THUNDER FERGUSON, but apart from than no one landed a glove on him until he faced TNT TUCKER and BONECRUSHER SMITH!!!!

I’d say that was great defensive skills… His offense relied on him being able to get into position and range quicker than most Welterweights could do it!!!!

Posted August 1, 2013 3:34 pm 


TARK

TJ….,

You’re spot on with Mikey Garcia… I completely overlooked him… He’s definitely in the top 4 or 5 already.

Posted August 1, 2013 3:29 pm 


PEEJ

Can’t agree with Martinez. He is overrated and Broner. Hasn’t really earned that yet.

Posted August 1, 2013 3:23 pm 


TJ

TE TUMBO

DARN IT!!!!!

You got your post in before me – I was called away before i could post it….

Sop, you like what Mikey is doing too? Good on you…. He’s made good quality fighters look fragile! He has a way to go, but he could be special… However, I said the same about JUANMA when he backed up my claim that he would take out PONCE DE LEON early and become a megastar

I was wrong on that one, sadly!

Anyone know what ISRAEL VAZQUEZ is up to these days! I just love his fights with
Rafael Marquez!!!!!

Posted August 1, 2013 3:20 pm 


TJ

TARK
@TJ… Top 10 today??? 1 Mayweather… 2 Rigondeaux… 3 Golovkin… 4 Martinez… 5 Donaire… 6 Wladimir… 7 Alvarez… 8 Marquez… 9 Bradley… 10 Haye… 11 Pacquiao …

MY TOP TEN:
1/ FLOYD MAYWEATHER JNR
2/ SOG ANDRE WARD
3/ JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
4/ DRAGON CHRIS JOHN
5 / MIKEY GARCIA
6/ TIMOTHY BRADLEY
7/SAUL CANELO ALVAREZ
8/LUCAS MATTHYSSE
9/ WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO
10/ GENNADY GOLOVKIN
GUILLERMO RIGONDEAUX
ABNER MARES

I am basing my picks on skills, longevity, quality of opposition, who i feel would beat the other and gut instinct.

It’s sure to raise a few eyebrows, particularly on OLDIE Chris John and NEWBIE Mikey Garcia…

I’ve cheated as I have three men in at number 10 pick.

DESERT STORM is blowing itself out, but until he loses he will remain high and I prefer Wladimir as the all-round boxer in that family… I think he is vastly underated!!!!

Posted August 1, 2013 3:16 pm 


te tumbo

Top 10 Tried, Tested, and Proven as of today:

1. Mayweather
2. Ward
3. Marquez
3. KlitschkoS
4. Mares
5. M.Garcia
6. Mathysse
7. Martinez
8. Alvarez
9. Bradley
10. Broner

this is no popularity contest or an exercise in sentimentality. Each and Every One of these fighters has demonstarted breakaway skills and/or talent on a consistent basis v. the best available comp, i.e., Tried, Tested, and Proven. when you respect the Sport, it’s the only criteria that counts.

Posted August 1, 2013 3:07 pm 


TJ

TARK

Top 10 all time??? Mayweather… Tunney… Vitali Klitschko… Pep… Jofre… Monzon… Hopkins… Roy Jones… Toney… Rigondeaux

There would be revisions if I wanted to make a project out of it, but to me, defense is the key to winning and longevity.

Many won’t agree with Vitali – but VK has never been behind on points—and has never been knocked down. In his last 10 fights he’s been a pretty damned unbelievable defender. He could easily be undefeated for his whole career except for a bad referee vs Lewis and an injured shoulder vs Byrd.

I’m high on defensive skills—because the greatest defenders win the most consistently and have the longest careers.

TARK

I totally agree with you on DEFENSE….. I totally believe that if anyone wants to learn to box, they should be taught defence until they literally dream about it…. Defence is the only foundation that will build a great boxer…. I’ve seen explosive fighters and fighters with great engines, but once father time catches up with them or they burn out they have nothing left as they haven’t learned their trade.

Even the so-called ferocious fighters like DURAN and TYSON had great defensive skills…. Tyson seemed to lose his when he got involved with ROBIN GIVENS, RUTH ROPER, DON KING and lost the guidance of the great JIM JACOBS, Kevin Rooney and co…. He was headed to obliviion fast, with no breaks on!!!!!!

How say you about PERNELL WHITAKEr who won titles from Lightweight to Jnr Middle based on great defence???

HOPKINS is a good choice because he will beat any boxer, young or old who hasn’t got the sound fundamental skills instilled in them…. He made JOE CALZAGHE look like a novice!!!!

I always forget to name CARLOS MONZON in my list of favourite fighters as I championed him against the guy you don’t rate MArvin Hagler when I was at school…..

I like your pick of EDRE JOFRE, who I admit I have not seen much of… There are some interesting picks there, but I would argue that RIGONDEAUX is too soon in his career to rank that highly, even tho’ he controlled the FILIPINO FLASH last time out.

Posted August 1, 2013 2:41 pm 


TARK

One glaring omission I made was Lucas Matthysse… He belongs somewhere in the Top-10… IMO he’s never been beaten, and he’s been coming on like gangbusters in his last few fights.

Posted August 1, 2013 1:45 pm 


TARK

@TJ… Top 10 today??? 1 Mayweather… 2 Rigondeaux… 3 Golovkin… 4 Martinez… 5 Donaire… 6 Wladimir… 7 Alvarez… 8 Marquez… 9 Bradley… 10 Haye… 11 Pacquiao …

I would probably revise it if I wanted to take the time… Martinez is probably ranked too high for instance.

Top 10 all time??? Mayweather… Tunney… Vitali Klitschko… Pep… Jofre… Monzon… Hopkins… Roy Jones… Toney… Rigondeaux

There would be revisions if I wanted to make a project out of it, but to me, defense is the key to winning and longevity.

Many won’t agree with Vitali – but VK has never been behind on points—and has never been knocked down. In his last 10 fights he’s been a pretty damned unbelievable defender. He could easily be undefeated for his whole career except for a bad referee vs Lewis and an injured shoulder vs Byrd.

I’m high on defensive skills—because the greatest defenders win the most consistently and have the longest careers.

Posted August 1, 2013 1:25 pm 


Haimat

Is anyone surprised that the imbecile Vivek will pick Floyd at anything and everything as the greatest ever? Even his own uncle Roger holds Duran as the best LW ever.

Posted August 1, 2013 12:53 pm 


TARK

@Boxingpedia…… Great post… Great points.

Posted August 1, 2013 12:28 pm 


It’s Me, Ernie

CORRECTAMUNDO is an ATG, the lesser posters need to recognize…

Posted August 1, 2013 11:46 am 


Hidalgo

“I took someone else’s word for it” LMFAO!!! Now why would a “prophet” like you do something like that? Ever? I mean, you’re so fuggin’ great and everyone is “lesser” than you. Why would you do that, Liarmundo? Now you blame your bad pick on someone else. And btw liar, you did pick Berto over Soto-Karass.

Posted August 1, 2013 9:36 am 


Hidalgo

Braggadamus–that’s you Correctamundo–I bet if I handed you a roll of hand wrap right now you couldn’t properly wrap your hands. You’ve never boxed in your life. You’re too much of a talker.

Posted August 1, 2013 9:33 am 


Hidalgo

Now Dipstickamundo thinks he was blessed with wisdom by God. Yeah right. Just like Guerrero was blessed by God to beat Mayweather. That was a total failure. Just like you.

Posted August 1, 2013 9:28 am 


Hidalgo

“WISDOM does not come from experience. It comes from God.” LOL!

Posted August 1, 2013 9:27 am 


Hidalgo

“YES I have Boxed but whether I have Boxed or not is not the factor.” Liar.

Posted August 1, 2013 9:26 am 


Hidalgo

“Also the Oostheisen pick is irrelevant here because I hadn’t seen both Boxers SO my gifts didn’t apply….I took someone else’s word for it….and I learned my lesson. Everyone elses analysis is LESSER than my own SO don’t take someone elses word for it. Rely on my OWN analysis”

Sounds like groveling excuse-making to me.

Posted August 1, 2013 9:23 am 


Boxingpedia

According to boxing guru Vivek, Ortiz and Guerrero are very good and they are solid fighters, why? Because they fought Floyd? he also thinks that Maidana is a B fighter. Marcos KO Ortiz (no sucker punch) KO Lopez who stopped Ortiz and he also KO Soto karass who did a lot better than Guerrero by KOing Berto and beating Aydin. I say that Maidana and Soto Karass are solid fighters and Ortiz and Guerrero are B fighters.
This guru also stated that statistically Floyd is plus 30 and Leonard is plus 26, he forgot to mention that Floyd got these numbers fighting guys like Baldomir, Ortiz, Corrales, Castillo and Guerrero, while Leonard got his numbers by fighting Duran, Hearns, Benitez, Kalule and Hagler.

Posted August 1, 2013 8:32 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Also the Oostheisen pick is irrelevant here because I hadn’t seen both Boxers SO my gifts didn’t apply….I took someone else’s word for it….and I learned my lesson. Everyone elses analysis is LESSER than my own SO don’t take someone elses word for it. Rely on my OWN analysis

Posted August 1, 2013 3:04 am 


TJ

TARK

WHAT IS YOUR LIST OF Top Ten Pound for Pound Boxers of All Time?

WHAT IS YOUR LIST OF Top Ten Pound for Pound Boxers of 2013?

WHAT IS YOUR LIST OF FAVOURITE BOXERS?

I am very interested to know.

Posted August 1, 2013 2:58 am 


TJ

SPARTACUS 65

It’s funny, because my list of favourite boxers of all time =

HEARNS
SANCHEZ
GOMEZ
HOLMES
FINITO LOPEZ
MARCO ANTONIO BARRERA
AARON PRYOR
JEFF CHANDLER

I have a whole heap of boxers I would put in my top ten if I could, but most of those fighters, the first 4 are because i grew up watching them and loved them for different styles and attributest hey brought to the ring….

IMHO if Salvador hadn’t had his fatal crash he could have become the best fighter to grace a ring after RAY ROBINSON – I hold him that high in esteem…

I also love the greats of yesteryears like IKE WILLIAMS, JOE GANS, EZZARD CHARLES and I truly admired SONNY LISTON (what a dominant jab) – not sure how much control the mob had of his career, but with the right trainer he could have been unbeatable, MAN OF STEEL TONY ZALE,…

the list goes on

Posted August 1, 2013 2:49 am 


TARK

Boxtra…. You weren’t blessed with anythng.. Otherwise you wouldn’t pick Oosthiuszen over Gonzales.

I will say Floyd is the GOAT for now… But I like this undefeated kid Canelo. I want to see what happens here because this kid brings a lot of skills for a 23-year-old.

Posted August 1, 2013 2:27 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Laughing at me is irrelevant. The TRUTH remains whether you laugh at it or not…or else I would laugh at my bills.

Posted August 1, 2013 2:09 am 


Troll Killer

Turbo Hamster…didnt know gonzo had groupies here…ur response was just weird…either that or YOU ARE gonzo!

Correctumundo: sure bud..keep patting yourself on the back while every one laughs at you…

Posted August 1, 2013 2:03 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“Correctomundo :WTF do u know about skill?? Have u actually ever boxed”-YES I have Boxed but whether I have Boxed or not is not the factor. My EYE for GREATNESS and gift for being able to compare and contrast different Boxers very WELL is the factor. I SCHOOLED someone on this last week….WISDOM does not come from experience. It comes from God. I have been blessed with the ability to see WHO is the BETTER Fighter and Floyd stands above them all……To answer your other question, I know that SKILL in its simplest definition as it relates to Boxing is simply the demonstrated ability to hit and not get hit consistently….by that definition NO one in the History of Boxing is more SKILLED than Mayweather.

Posted August 1, 2013 12:33 am 


Turbo-Hamster

Come on TARK, if you are going to talk some smack lay it on nice and thick……

Then maybe tell us a story about how Drederick Tatum taught you all about smacktalk as you were training him.

Posted August 1, 2013 12:11 am 


It’s Me, Ernie

I see, throwing weak words instead of backing up your bs, pitiful and shameful liar…

Posted July 31, 2013 10:02 pm 


TARK

Post your birth certificate creep… I want to see proof you were born… or were you shat out of a cow — which I strongly suspect.

Posted July 31, 2013 9:44 pm 


Troll Killer

Turbo Hamster: Is that cuz he’s a Knight in dungeons and dragons?? ahahahahah

Posted July 31, 2013 6:21 pm 


Turbo-Hamster

Trollkiller….I would imagine that if someone from a “hood” were to ask Gonzo what to call him the answer would be “Sir”.

Posted July 31, 2013 6:07 pm 


TARK

R. May…, Briefly, I’ve boxed amateur, pro, and trained 100’s of boxers.

Posted July 31, 2013 2:08 pm 


spartacus 65

Tj,Hecdog shout out to you soldiers. Robinson set the TONE for modern boxer/pu.cher stykes that we see today. The man had SUPERB BALANCE, FLUIDITY, POWER TO SPARE,EXCELLENT CHIN AND GOOD DEFENSE. Infighting and outside fighting the man was as perfect a fighter as you would want to see. His defense was not as sharp later as he aged but even 75% of Robinson was still quite a bit to see. As a welterweight the man was sheer,perfection. His defense was that INCREDIBLE offense he possessed. Power to take a man out with either hand. Knocked men put going BACKWARDS. Even in tje bkack and white films you can see his unparalleled smooth as a tap dancers footwork. Exquisite timing,rythm and reflexes. Hearns,leonard,Ali,Holmes and a hist of others including the unforgettable Salvador Sanchez owes their,respective styles to this man. Particularly Salvador Sanchez who in my view alo.g with Rivardo Lopez were the latino versions of Ray Robinson. And that is no exaggeration. I agree. Transplant these men to present,with todays updated training methods and advanced sports science(not peds) clean nutritional advanced technology and add to that their alreadyincredible talents and you habe darn near mutant boxers with these hall of famers.

Posted July 31, 2013 1:22 pm 


TJ

spartacus 65

WELL SAID on your last few comments! It’s good to know where we got it from…
Can you imagine these great fighters from way back transported in a time machine to today??? What, with their natural toughness and the access to nutrition, scientific training methods etc to go with their God-given talents, they would be megastars today…

The likes of Ray Robinson, Joe Gans, Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Sandy Saddler and more recently Salvador Sanchez (my no.2 favourite boxer ever), duran, Leonard, Hagler and Hearns would totally rip it up with the top guys today!

I have no doubts about that, especially if they could take their trainers with them and give them access to all the modern methods science has provided over the last 25 years!

Posted July 31, 2013 1:01 pm 


Hecdog

Spartacus 65, good post my friend. Sugar Ray Robinson was on a different level.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:56 pm 


Hecdog

Robinson hype??????? Tark, you can’t be serious. The man could fight in any era. He was way before his time. Are you talking about the Ray Robinson of today? Sugar Ray Robinson set the standard for every boxer that has stepped into a boxing ring. He could box, punch, fight inside and he could take a punch. Sugar Ray Robinson was one of the greatest fighters ever. What a blasphemous statement to even make such a comment

Posted July 31, 2013 12:52 pm 


spartacus 65

Ive seen the Mayweathers fights. Though they came up short against the big guns,(Roger/Floyd senoir) I must give these men due. THEY KNOW BOXING. Personally Im not a fan of these two on but in terms of ring knowledge these two gentlemen know theit stuff and most times they are on piint. Second diabetes is nothing to make light of. I have family members who suffer from it and it can be a very exhausting and debilitating affliction. Making somewhat caustic remarks about a persons illness in my book isn’t kosher. I wish Roger good health and quality life as much as possible for the future. Now Floyd bei.g second best to Ray Robinson? Disagree on all levels. I take quality over FANCY STATISTICS anyday. In Ray Robinsons case, he has BOTH quality and quantity. Jake lamotta was no walk in the park for anyonr in his fighting prime. Those old school fighters were sone serious Bad Boys. To me they were true gladiators right up until the eighties and a bit of the nineties. I will give the Mayweather brothers the respect accorded to them if only because they fought at the time in a very golden period and regardless of losing they gave o
It all they had. Floyd senior? Darn! The man is still RIPPED at his age. Tip my hat to him.

Posted July 31, 2013 11:34 am 


R. Mayweather knows best

Tark: Simple question: have you boxed before and to what capacity?.

Posted July 31, 2013 11:24 am 


TARK

Billy Conn vs Andre Ward??? Ward is naturally bigger and stronger. A better defender, infighter, and controls the ring better. Conn was a better athlete and maybe a little faster and a lot flashier. I would say Ward by a UD and he would take the late rounds.

Posted July 31, 2013 10:40 am 


Troll Killer

Gonzo tries to sound tough…imagine someone in the hood asks him hey what the call you? “I’m Gonzo the dragon born!!!” Ahahahahahaha that f$%kin dungeons and dragon bulls pit don’t work in real life homeboy!

Posted July 31, 2013 10:26 am 


R. Mayweather knows best

Tark: Have you ever boxed before? To what capacity? For you to say Robinson was HYPE makes YOU sound brain dead! Somebody that ever stepped in that ssquared circle would NEVER put down fighters the way you do! So tell us exactly how involved you were in boxing?? Or how much boxing you have done?

Posted July 31, 2013 10:23 am 


BC

Gonzo…sounds like a character from the Muppets. Do you or have you ever posted anything boxing related besides …well,…..stupidity?

Posted July 31, 2013 10:19 am 


BRUCE

MAYWEATHER WOULD NOT HAVE GONE SIX ROUNDS WITH ROBERTSON.

Posted July 31, 2013 7:59 am 


TJ

TARK
Roger Mayweather is brain dead… Floyd had to bring his dad back to camp because of all the stupid off the wall stuff Roger is saying…

ROGER id suffering from diabetes and complications with it.

When I last spoke with him he was as sharp as a tack and we discussed many facets on the history of boxing – the dude knows his stuff and would easily go 15 rounds with you on boxing history.

I don’t know all the details of what’s going down with Roger, but I last hung out with him nearly 2 years ago- so a lot can happen.

but for you to call him brain dead is an insult, because a lot of the comments you come out with have alot of us scratching our heads and wondering if you yourself are compos mentis at times!!!!

Posted July 31, 2013 7:37 am 


TJ

TARK

Please list your Current Top Ten Pound For Pound boxers in the sport of boxing and your reasons why?

I’m interested to know also.

Posted July 31, 2013 7:29 am 


TJ

TARK

Please list your Top Ten Pound For Pound boxers in the history of the sport and your reasons why?

I’m interested to know.

Posted July 31, 2013 7:28 am 


Red bone red nose

Thanks! One more question please. Billy Conn vs Andre Ward

Posted July 31, 2013 2:53 am 


TARK

Roger Mayweather is brain dead… Floyd had to bring his dad back to camp because of all the stupid off the wall stuff Roger is saying… Saying that LaMotta outweghed LaMatto by 50 pounds… Have you ever met LaMotta??? He’s about 5’6″… He’s a very small guy.. Robinson was about 6′ tall.. LaMotta had maybe 10 pounds on Robbie when he kicked Robinson’s ass.. Cotto is a much better boxer than LaMotta and punches much harder… He out weighed Floyd by 17 pounds.

Posted July 31, 2013 2:51 am 


TARK

Red bone red nose…. Gene Tunney all the way… Just too good a defender.. Then I would say Charles… Although Holyfield may have been too big and strong for Charles.. The Charles who fought Marciano, and lost to Harold Johnson and Nino Valdes in 1953 was totally gone.. Holyfield would have KO’d that Charles in the 1st round..

But prime Charles beats Holyfield on speed and finesse.. There was a huge difference in the Charles who beat Walcott in there first 2 fights and the Charles who lost to Walcott in their last 2 fights..

ALS creeps up on you for decades before the symptoms are so obvious you go to a doctor… ALS happened to Charles.

Posted July 31, 2013 2:34 am 


spartacus 65

R. Mayweather knows best, im with you on this: most of the fellas here like ourselves are fans. Stillim willing to wager most have not been in a ring to spar, take a bodyshot,head shot,etc.. To exchange feints and to use ring generalship. Nor what is the difference between a sloe ring and a fast ring. Tjeir mi.ds are made up. They go by what they know of today. Seeing film of past fighters eill not make a difference. Statistics? The new fad in sports as a whole today. Statistics dont measure a mans heart or his resilience when fighting a PRIME opponent who is giving the champ a darn tough go of it.Thi.gs have definitely changed and not necessarily for the better.

Posted July 31, 2013 2:25 am 


TARK

If you look at how easy Robinson was to hit… And how easily guys like Ralph Jones beat him from ring post to ring post.. And Jones was actually about the best Robinson ever faced because he never faced anyone like Miguel Cotto.. And when you see how difficult Mayweather is to hit… And how one of the smoothest boxers ever like Cotto couldn’t do a real number on him … then you have to realize pound-for-pound Mayweather is definitely the better all around boxer.

Posted July 31, 2013 2:25 am 


Red bone red nose

Hey Tark & Co, whoya got between Sam Langford, Gene Tunney, Ezzard Charles, and Holyfield in a round robin?

Posted July 31, 2013 2:24 am 


R. Mayweather knows best

Most experts from trainers, to boxing historians, to boxers will CONCEEDE that SRR is the greatest of all time….what qualifies you to disagree?

Posted July 31, 2013 2:00 am 


R. Mayweather knows best

Correctomundo :WTF do u know about skill?? Have u actually ever boxed?

Posted July 31, 2013 1:58 am 


R. Mayweather knows best

Correctomundo…Your the biggest May weather STAN on this site….ur so full of excuses

Posted July 31, 2013 1:55 am 


R. Mayweather knows best

Uncle roger has his own nephew behind SRR!..nuff said…..

Posted July 31, 2013 1:39 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Meeting Floyd live is GREATER than meeting Robinson. Floyd is the GOAT.

Posted July 31, 2013 1:35 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Thats misleading because even Cotto’s jab was more effective than Clottey’s best power shots.

Posted July 31, 2013 1:33 am 


spartacus 65

Thats interesting Tark. While I disagree with you in.regards to Robinsons worth as a fighter I must say that must’ve been a pretty keen experience to meet a fighter considered by many to be the best ever, face to face not once but several times. Cool stuff.

Posted July 31, 2013 1:32 am 


Red bone red nose

Tark, your ballistics expertise is totally beyond cool. Do you use a punch percussion device, head snap/skin stretch slow motion, or both because according to that silly compubox, Clottey landed 168 power punches to Cotto’s 124?

Posted July 31, 2013 1:31 am 


TARK

Red bone red nose…. Right Clottey landed 20% more punches.. But Cotto’s were 30% harder.. Therefore Cotto won on greater damage.

Cotto ripped Clottey with that jab and dropped him.

Posted July 31, 2013 1:07 am 


TARK

Spartacus 65…, I met Robinson several times.. He was pretty humble and not like the character he created. However I watched him live on TV as a youngster. He was a hero of mine but I wasn’t overly impressed with his boxing or punching ability.

Joey Maxim was an interesting character… He said, “It was just as hot in there for me as it was for Robinson.. My plan was to make Robinson punch as hard as he could.. I wanted him to think he could knock me out.. He wasn’t hitting me that cleanly and heavyweights couldn’t even hurt me.. Moore and Charles never really hurt me.. I knew I could take anything Robinson could throw and it was a very hot night.. My plan was to attack Ray in the last 2 rounds and knock him out, but he tired faster than I thought.”

Posted July 31, 2013 1:03 am 


Red bone red nose

Clottey landed 222 punches to Cotto’s 179

Posted July 31, 2013 12:48 am 


spartacus 65

Once again my friend, THE HEAT stopped Robinson,not Maxim. This is really open knowledge. Ray was pretty much winning that fight. Ray could be clearly seen staggering to his corner from heat exhaustion. It wasn’t Maxims fists. You said something interesting. If im correct you said you saw Robinson live. If so did yoy meet the man? Just curious cause that is a bit of history there.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:47 am 


Blue tick pit

Ezzard Charles beat beat Burley, Bivens, and Archie Moore multiple times but the Rock beat Charles twice

Posted July 31, 2013 12:43 am 


PEEJ

The money shouldn’t of been an issue with Roy and Hopkins. Roy was clearly ahead in that aspect plus he had the win. He should of took the 60 40. The current win that Hopkins has over Jones really means nothing.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:42 am 


TARK

How many times has Joshua Clottey been on the canvas??? One Cotto jab dropped Clottey like a hard straight right.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:42 am 


spartacus 65

Archie moore and Ray DID sit down over dinner at Rays INVITE to discuss such a bout. It is correct that thatvwas a very popular fight. The promoters put up the cash. The problem? MONEY. Just like the issue with Mayweather and Pacquiao today. As was the issue with Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins in regards to a rematch. Now my pick had the money issue been resolved? Archie Moore. Ray would’ve had his moments but the ild mongoose would’ve in my view gotten to Ray. My humble opinion.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:41 am 


TARK

Miguel Cotto was an ATG no doubt about it… He had one of the smoothest jabs of all time… Giant Q-Tips up Floyd Mayweather’s nose tells you about the potency of the Cotto jab.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:38 am 


TARK

Burley always said he would have beaten Robinson and only needed the opportunity to face him.. Maxim stopped Robinson… Moore beat Maxim 3 times… Burley floored Moore 4 times and beat him with ease… Moore: “The greatest fighter I ever fought was Charley Burley. He would have beaten Robinson no doubt. Robinson wouldn’t fight me and I certainly can’t blame him. I would have given him a terrible beating.”

Posted July 31, 2013 12:34 am 


spartacus 65

In.regards to Burley himself it is well documented that Burley said he did not hold anything against Ray because he saw no money to be made in that fight for either of them. He also said he woukd hsve done the SAME to Ray as well and not botherto square up with Robinson. So basically in this issue we habe a pretty conclusive ending. Cotto an alltime great? Hmmm, I have a respectable difference of opinion there. Still Cotto is a class act who after taking some vicious beatings by Pacquiao and the infamous career shortening beating by the olasterwrapped Margarito,clearly isn’t the same figjter he was before. Still he is a warrior and I will accord him the resoect he merits.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:21 am 


TARK

Adrian… Zab Judah was as wrong for Mayweather’s style as Ralph Jones was for Sugar Ray Robinson’s style.. Or Iran Barkley was for Thomas Hearns’s style.. The thing is: Floyd takes guys who are the worst possible guys for his style—and he still beats them.

Styles make fights..

Posted July 31, 2013 12:16 am 


TARK

I saw Robinson fight live so I have a better idea of how good he was.. I watched him get trounced by Ralph Jones.. I saw 1st hand what hype, myth, image building, and effective marketing could do. Robinson didn’t want a rematch with Jones. He didn’t want a rematch with Maxim. He wanted to fight guys he could beat. That’s why he fought slow and punchless Jake LsMotta 6 times. Robinson never beat a boxer-puncher the caliber of Charley Burley or Archie Moore in his life.

Floyd whpped ATG Miguel Cotto who was 4 years younger… He took a few shots from a guy who outweighed him by 17 pounds—but prevailed by a wide margin… Robinson never fought that caliber of boxer-punhcer in his life.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:09 am 


Adrian

Peej”PEEJ

And yes the fans called for Jydah vs Floyd. They wanted to see Floyd fight someone just as fast. Everybody said he was looking ahead to Floyd and wasn’t focused on Bouldamir. Hatton beat Kostya and Floyd beat Hatton. So what’s your point?

Hahahaha oh so just because tzu lost the last fight obwiously not in his prime to hatton you give credit to mayweather for that ?? Lol as if PAC didnt beat hatton and if you start comparing fights then the same tzu make Judah chicken dance in only two rounds and mayweather had problems with him and actualy losing many rounds to “chicken dance Judah”
So when it suites you ,you call Judah the best mayweather opponent but when not he is no one and “wasn’t focused on baldomir” gtfo !!!!

Posted July 31, 2013 12:09 am 


spartacus 65

Tark goodevening. As I said you are entitled to your views. I respectfully disagree with you on them. Robinson fought Maxim at an advanced stage of his career and was winning that bout till heat exhaustion which EVERYONE KNOWS about got the better of Ray AND the referee. As for thw Burley issue that has always been debatable by even Burley himself. Still for fair play I will give you that. Tje mans overall body of work cannot be disputed. He still fought a very considerable list of some reak heavy hitters. That cannot be disputed. Hearns? The man fought some pretty tough customers himself won some and lost some. Hagler being the toughest of them all. Cherry picker is used very loosely by you in order to denigrate these men. If layer in their careers they took some easier bouts then I can say given theit over all body of work, these men DESERVED IT. What they did accomplish overshadows by far what not only Mayweather but also Pacquiao as well accomplished. I note a very personal tone in your analysis when the subject becomes Mayweather and any hint of critic of him is met with some acidity in tone. Champ it’s just boxing. Its all good. Peave.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:08 am 


TARK

Now think about it… Emmanuel Steward was DEAD WRONG!!!! If an expert the caliber of Emmanuel Steward could be so wrong—What about all the sports writers and pundits who know ZERO about Boxing??? They all vote for the the image.. They hype.. The myth.

Posted July 31, 2013 12:00 am 


Urraca

Some y’alls like a mob of haters on hanging day when it comes to Margarito framed by a bitter and bloody Golden boy and his paid off Kali kangaroo court that couldnt prove nothin but a soft lil knuckle pad. Tried your best to put him in chains for insulting your Golden Boy up at Big Bear and then startling your public Pretty Boy at the club….ha ha ha ha ha

Posted July 30, 2013 11:58 pm 


TARK

Spartacus 65…., I’m LMAO…. I’ll tell you what a cherry-picker is…

Ray Robinson refused the fight the 2 best boxer-punchers of his era. Ray gladly fought slow, soft punching Joey Maxim for the LHW title. He “knew” he could beat Maxim. After Robinson was stopped he refused to rematch Maxim. Maxim was too big, too tough, too smart, too cool, and too patient. When Archie Moore won the LHW Title that was a massive money fight … Robinson wasn’t interested. He had no shot in Hell vs Moore. Robinson also ducked Charley Burley. Burley whipped Archie Moore like he owned him.

Tommy Hearns didn’t have a chin. He couldn’t defend. He wasn’t the sharpest tool in the shed. Emmanuel Steward knew all this. He kept Hearns away from Mike McCallum… Michael Nunn… Julian Jackson… Reggie Johnson… James Toney… Nigel Benn… and Sumbu Kalambay… Steward thought Hearns was at LEAST good enough to beat Iran Barkley—who most of the above fighters whipped with ease…

Then again—Steward also thought Jermain Taylor could take Kelly Pavlik.

Posted July 30, 2013 11:53 pm 


spartacus 65

Goodevening gentlemen. Ray Robinson: 85-0 amateur wins, 69 by way of the kayo. 40 in the first round. Turned pro in 1940 at 19. By 1951, 11 years later comprised a record of 128-1-2 with 84 kayos. 1943-1951 unbeaten streak of 91 fights. Third longest unbeaten streak in history. Welterweight champ 1946-1951.Retired 21/2 years and won middleweight title in 1955,15 years after turning pro. Won middleweight crown 5 times. Is recognized by fellow boxers past and present ,trainers and sportswriters as the best ever. Top trainers and TOP fighters. Ali, Duran, Joe Louis, Ray Leonard and the list goes on. Top bocer by espn in 2007.1997 Ring magazine voted him BEST fighter in history. 1999 best fighter of the century by associated press. Did he lose? Yes. Was he past his better days when he lost to Ralph Jones? Yes.When you compete at that level for that long a period and slar thousands of rou.ds,taking punishment in the process something MUST GIVE. The man became human as he aged and stacked up tons of mileage on his body. Mayweather naturally is well preserved due to good health habits,training and simply a Huge rate of inactivity between fights. OF COURSE HE’S GOING TO LOOK FRESHER. THAT’S JUST COMMON SENSE. Throw in the quality of his opponents and then you see why he is performing well. Noe, fight as often as Robinson against some vicious bastards that came up during that time and I can assure you the picture woukd be VERY different for Mr. Mayweather. Everyone can habe their view. I will constantly give the respect to each fellas viewpoints. Agree or disagree. But to try to relegate Ray Robinson to being a fancy hairstyle,pink Cadillac and booty chaser who is judged solely off of the basis of losing past his prime years to Tiger Jones is plain mean spirited and extremely prejudiced. All be,uase you like a certain fighter. I like Pacquiao but I will call him out too if need be. He surely fougjt some easy and strictly sparring matches,Mosley the most obvious. That was a glorified mutual bromance in my view. But to denigrate the truly top fighters from before,hearns included in such a demeaning way shows a bit of closemindedness and ignorance of these mens accomplishments. Willful ignorance. Peace

Posted July 30, 2013 11:40 pm 


PEEJ

Floyd beating titlest, champs and top 5 fighters constantly is called cherry picking then yes Floyd is that. I guess you would like him to fight noncontenders and fighters that are losing to build his record

Posted July 30, 2013 10:23 pm 


Done Deal

The average athlete today is better than the average athlete of the past in every sport. Basketball, American Football, Football, Baseball, Track & Field, and Cycling. Boxing is no exception. Its called evolution. Technology, supplements, training techniques, and the ability to study what past fighters did and improve on it assure that the present athlete is better,

Posted July 30, 2013 9:41 pm 


Done Deal

Facts are facts period end. Numbers dont lie. Everything else if opinion. Some of you fools are so ignorant you will argue that s facts are not facts. The earth has 1 moon in its orbit, the earth is round, grass grows green, Antarctica is cold, North America is a continent, and Mayeather has the best punch stats and +- ratio since that stats have been recorded. These are facts. Mayweather cherry picks his fight, Duran is better than Mayweather, Duran would beat Mayweather, Mayweather would beat Duran, these are opinions. Look the definition of facts and opinions up in the dictionary. IDIOTS

Posted July 30, 2013 9:35 pm 


Anonymous

floyd is the greatest ever hate on white boys 54-0 bayieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Posted July 30, 2013 8:40 pm 


PEEJ

Margacheato gets no shot, so you can keep mentioning his name he is a cheater. Plan and simple. Arum said Cotto was too green to face Floyd. His own words. Floyd was too small for Wright but he was talking trash to him but he was still too small. Arum ducked the fight for Pac vs Floyd. Come up with all the excuses you want about that fight but he came up with excuses about the drug test, turned down 40 mil, the same excuse you are trying to use about money but they turned down 40 mil Sorry bro stop using that excuse. Williams was overrated and couldn’t stay at a weight class long enough to get his title shots. That was him and his teams fault. Plus he was overrated. He didn’t see a punch he didn’t like. And really if that Puerto Rican dude beat him what do you think Floyd would of done. Come on now. You don’t even know if GGG can make 154. He has never made it in his pro career so you have no clue if he can make it. And there is more money at 154 than there is at 160. And what has he done to get a title shot? You do realize Lucas fights at 140 and if he beats Garcia then he will probably get the fight against Floyd. But of course once Floyd signs that fight you will come up and say Floyd is fighting someone smaller than him.
And you also keep naming fighters that are bigger than him. Come on now. Stop that. He is a great so get over it.

Posted July 30, 2013 8:28 pm 


Hidalgo

Oh, and please don’t any even remind me of Floyd’s jail sentence. Two months incarceration was no detriment to the layoff king. Besides that the whole state of Nevada bent over and grabbed its ankles so Floyd could fight before he went to jail.

Posted July 30, 2013 8:16 pm 


Hidalgo

In other words, for 41% of the total time that Floyd has been fighting, he has only fought 9 times. Nine. Just nine. :)

Posted July 30, 2013 8:14 pm 


Hidalgo

” When Duran was 36, was he on TOP? what about Dela Hoya? Shane? PAC? ”

Delk, Mayweather has been fighting as a pro for around 17 years. Yet in the last 7 years of his career–more than 1/3 of the total time he has fought as a pro, the guy has only had nine fights. Nine. This is one reason he’s still “on top” at such a relatively late age in his boxing career. He hasn’t suffered all the wear and tear that boxers who fight regularly do. The guy did an awful lot of resting in those nine years. One time he didn’t fight for 22 months. After fighting Mosley in 2010 he took almost 1 1/2 years off before his next fight with Ortiz. Oh sure, one can say “yeah but look at all that ring rust he made up for,” but one can also say he’s had a fairly easy boxing schedules considering the level he fights at. I believe Floyd will be hard-pressed to finish his six-fight contract. After all, he’s more used to not fighting–over the last nine years–than he is to fighting. It takes Floyd a long time to recuperate from a competitive bout–especially when he gets hit a lot more than he’s used to. Case in point: Floyd’s third-longest layoff was between his fights with Cotto and Guerrero. Cotto did some damage to Floyd. So Floyd had to rest a lot before he was ready to take on his “mandatory” but extremely over-rated and under-qualified opponent Guerrero. Meanwhile, once upon a time, ATG Sugar Ray Robinson fought 14 to 16 opponents a year.

Posted July 30, 2013 8:12 pm 


Turbo-Hamster

Floyd is a boxing genius, and would have lived with opponents in any era, probably wouldn`t beat all of them, but he`d be a great chance carving out an unexciting UD or SD versus anyone under 150lbs.

Denying that is just denying reality. YOu might as well shout at a flowerpot.

The very fair charges against Floyd though are:

1. He lacks the Joie de vivre, the panache, the va va voom, the spirit of adventure. He doesn`t provide spine tingling moments of audacity. He doesn`t fight back from the brink. He isn`t interested in putting a cherry on top of the cake.
He is an astonishing defensive minded technician, and he intelligently wins clean 10-9 round after 10-9 round.
It builds an amazing record, but it doesn`t build a highlight reel, or inspire movies

2. For whatever reason – and to be clear I am not blaming Floyd here – though maybe he could have done more calling people out or making concessions – there are some big names around who Floyd either didn`t fight or at least didn`t fight till they were past their peak.
His career between the Castillo II and Judah fights was a waste of time and talent.

Posted July 30, 2013 8:06 pm 


JeffC

Vivek: Don’t you see the punishment Berto is taking? some fighters can take punishment for years, and still be reasonably O.K. physically and mentaly, I think after watching several of Bertos fights he is not one of them. Sure, all fans want to see exiting fights, with give and take, but at the best of times boxing is a hard game, and no man’s health is worth the pleasure certain fans get from watching certain fighters get continually hurt. I know we all have different opinions, mine is, that Berto has given enough, he, at this time is to brave for his own good. Andre ,quit, don’t listen to all the so called well wishers, who want to appear like true friends, they are not,you are still young, go into something else, or a different side of boxing, good luck to you.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:59 pm 


Hidalgo

“Hidalgo… As far as a glorified sparring match goes, I’ve seen a lot of gym wars that would curl your hair. I’ve seen trainers having to separate fighters in the gym. I’ve seen spectacular one-punch KO’s in the gym with the world champion on the receiving end. I’ve seen guys fight in the locker room and do more damage to themselves than they ever suffered in a fight.”

I know it Tark. I’ve seen some of that too. However, I’ve never been fortunate enough to see a world champion get KOd by his sparring partner. That would be a treat.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:54 pm 


Boxe0

I think that the featherweight class of PAC, Marquez, Barrera and Morales is no match to the 70s Duran. Duran made his money in the 80s but that’s not the prime Duran.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:44 pm 


pipsqueak

tark is wrong about srr. he fought twemty something hall of famers including kid gavalin, armstrong,fulmer, lamotta etc.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:41 pm 


Delk1

Sorry PAC, Barrera, Morales, and Marquez DURAN said that you guys would have been sparring partners in his era. SORRY, and judging from most of the post I have read on this subject. Most of these guys agree.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:29 pm 


Delk1

Sorry PAC, Barrera, Morales, and Marquez DURAN said that you guys would have been sparring partners in his era. SORRY, and judging from most of the post I have read on this subject. Most of this guys agree.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:28 pm 


Delk1

Everybody is quick to try and knock Mayweathers accomplishments. Saying he is fighting shop worn or little known fighters. FIRST off Mayweather is damm near 40 years old. Have I heard anyone of you guys giving Mayweather the same excuse you are giving some of his opponents. When Duran was 36, was he on TOP? what about Dela Hoya? Shane? PAC? Base off most of you guys opinions about some of Mayweathers opponents, it is TOO LATE TO try and discredit Floyds career if he loses. LOL You guys are putting you foot in you own mouth. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAYING IF MAYWEATHER LOSES AT THIS POINT IN HIS CAREER? Chance are, if he lose it WILL be to a YOUNGER fighter, and that fighter will NOT be able to claim a legitimate victory over a OLD SHOP WORN MAYWEATHER. Isn’t thats what Floyd is now. OLD AND SHOP WORN??? LMAO ITS TOO LATE, HE DIDN”T LOSE IN PRIME and he is STILL winning PAST his prime, way past. GET past your hate, IT TOO LATE, IT didnt happen for you haters. YOU have talked you own self into a whole. GO MAYWEATHER! I always root for the senior citizens. LOL

Posted July 30, 2013 7:24 pm 


third world

duran up to 1980 wipes the floor with floyd jr. uncle roger is even quoted as saying it on 24/7 h.b.o. that duran would have won,and that he is the best fighter ever. duran won 3 weight division titles after 1980,but that is not the duran that was p4p the fighter of the decade(70’s) over muhammed ali. the undisputed lightweight champion that moved up and beat ray leonard would have beaten god in the ring.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:23 pm 


Delk1

Let me see if I got this right. MR. Quit MAN aka NO MAS said that Floyd would have been just another figther in his era. hmmmm OK thats fine, that his opinion. BUTTTTTTT here is my question. Mayweather is undefeated in THIS ERA. and Duran says he would be just another guy in HIS era. WELL What will all of the rest of the boxers be in THIS era. Sparring partners???

Posted July 30, 2013 7:07 pm 


Boxe0

There is what you call consensus and there is opinion. You are entitled to your own opinion but the consensus says he cherry picked and cherry picked smaller guys. Is that a bad thing? Not if you’re there to make money. Its called prizefighting and if money is what motivates him to be a safety first fighter then so be it. But don’t sugarcoat his legacy.. it is what it is.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:01 pm 


urone2

Boxe0
I know how Pernell fought he’s one of my favorites, my point is not everyone he fought was elite just like Floyds are not. You demean the Floyds opposition and says he cherry picked, but the reason for the move to 147 lbs was because the some fighters he is accused of ducking ducked him. When Floyd was in the 140 lbs weight class he tried to get unification bout with the other champs, Hatton and Cotto. Both turned him down, he moved to 147 people said he would duck Judah, he fought him, then he ducked Baldimir, he fought him. This goes on and on, everyone that Pacquioa avoided he fought so if he did duck Paul Williams ( which I believe he did) thats one that seemed confirmed by uncle roger himself. In my book thats it detractor want to see it differently that on them, that’s just not how I see it.

Posted July 30, 2013 6:43 pm 


Boxe0

I don’t think I said Sweet Pea fought all live guys. If he had the opportunity to pick his opponents he would be the greatest defensive fighter in my list. He doesn’t just lay on the ropes and block shots. He was right in front of Dela Hoya and he couldn’t hit him after swinging 4 times.

Posted July 30, 2013 5:42 pm 


Tomato Can

One, Paul Williams, wasn’t elite, and had all sorts of bad habits in the ring. I hate what happened to him, but he really wasn’t that good… Two, Chavez Sr. was great, but two small for Mayweather at 147. Mayweather would school him.

Posted July 30, 2013 5:05 pm 


Tomato Can

lol, Paul Williams? ha ha ha..

Posted July 30, 2013 5:00 pm 


Fighting Words

Many seems to compare Floyd vs Hearns, Learn and Duran, sure either one of those guys could stop Floyd, but I am certain Hearns would have with that devastating right hand and near perfect jab. But we don’t think we have to go back that far, just to the era of Julio Ceasar Chavez Sr. He would have Floyd and landing those body punches. Floyd just don’t through enough punches to keep him off. We could also be as recent as Paul Williams when he fought at 147 too bad he had bad management bounces him all over the weight division instead of staying at WW and force a mandatory with Floyd or Manny. Floyd and Manny avoided Paul at all cost.

Posted July 30, 2013 4:29 pm 


urone2

Boxe0

Whittaker fought alot of guy not all of them live, don’t try to create a situation thats not there. It seems most of us here are long time boxing fans that stand on opposite sides of this issue, so most of us are trying to prove our stand point from actual fight information.

Posted July 30, 2013 3:56 pm 


Tomato Can

The funny thing is, if Mayweather isn’t fighting anyone, why is he considered the best by most boxing experts and his peers, “other than the dim witted, V. Ortiz”? The arugument that Mayweather hasn’t fought anyone really holds no watter amoungst his peers. Cause 95 percent of them will tell you who the best is, with out pause.

Posted July 30, 2013 3:37 pm 


Boxe0

Sweat Pea fought live guys.

Posted July 30, 2013 3:24 pm 


urone2

Hidalgo

everyone who loves boxing remembers Pernell “Sweet Pea” Whittakers fights. They were said to be boring at the time but if you want to see master defense everyone and I mean everyone know’s to look at Whittaker or Mayweather for the best of recent defensive skill.

Posted July 30, 2013 2:26 pm 


urone2

Adrian,
Have you ever heard of debates……..

Posted July 30, 2013 2:03 pm 


Geronimo

TJ, lots of boxers started as street fighters and quite a few know martial arts. On the other hand a lot of martial artists are all show. Its all about the individual when it comes down to survival in the street.

Posted July 30, 2013 1:53 pm 


Fritz

Tomato can, promoters love money more than anything including your Oscar and and Don Kings who chronically rip off even their own fighters. But yeah I know you think that you are in the cliche because Golden Boy sponsors this site

Posted July 30, 2013 1:51 pm 


Tomato Can

lol, now we have guys defending Arum here. Really?

Posted July 30, 2013 1:38 pm 


Fritz

Peeg, Arum has offered Mayweather and GB all kinds of money and its because more than anything else, he likes to make money. Cotto, Margarito, Winky, Martinez, Clottey, Williams, Pacman, GGG, Matthysse, Molina, Martioysan, have all been calling out Floyd but as usual, Floyd bypasses them until “after” they been beaten and battered.

Posted July 30, 2013 1:35 pm 


Tomato Can

srminimo, agreed. That about sums it up…

Posted July 30, 2013 1:30 pm 


srminimo

Tomato Can- Meant to add “agree”

Posted July 30, 2013 1:04 pm 


srminimo

Tomato Can- Who wins will always be up for debate, but one thing is certain, Mayweather belongs in the conversation with the great ones.

Posted July 30, 2013 1:03 pm 


TARK

Hidalgo… As far as a glorified sparring match goes, I’ve seen a lot of gym wars that would curl your hair. I’ve seen trainers having to separate fighters in the gym. I’ve seen spectacular one-punch KO’s in the gym with the world champion on the receiving end. I’ve seen guys fight in the locker room and do more damage to themselves than they ever suffered in a fight.

However… Lets talk about the real world. In the real world your have winners and losers. The guys who win make massive amounts of money. The guys who lose might be good, but their life style is a little crimped.

Gene Tunney wasn’t loved by the fans but he won the richest fights of his era. Dempsey was the greatest drawing card of all time but didn’t have a prayer with Tunney. Joe Louis won the richest fights of his day even though he was a night person, chased a lot of tail, tossed his money away, and generally deteriorated through his 20’s. Instead of getting better each fight Louis peaked at 21 like Mike Tyson. Then there was Robinson. The man was a pure hype job. The hair… The women… The clothes horse… The Flamingo Cadillac… He fought guys who couldn’t box worth a damn… When Robinson finally fought somebody who could box—he got his ass whipped and good…

Ray fought Ralph Jones. Jones could dodge a punch… cut the ring off… and throw all night—not a damned thing Robinson could do about it. Robinson fought Jones because Jones lost his previous 5 fights to nobodies. He just fought very tough guys. It happens. Unlike Robinson, Floyd whipped some guys who actually can box. Miguel Cotto is an ATG easy. Cotto was a lot tougher than Floyd expected. If a couple more of those smooth jabs and left hooks landed the Boxing World would have been turned up-side-down and inside-out. Even the GOAT can’t win every time. If you’re fighting 28 World Championship Fights you’re going to get your ass beat at some point.

Floyd will probably not retire unbeaten because Canelo and Matthysse are serious threats. Let’s be honest—neither man has been beaten.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:24 pm 


spartacus 65

Hildalgo, In summary, RIGHT ON THE MARK! Peace and strength.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:23 pm 


Fight Aficionado

Berto isn’t done as a fighter. But without the PEDs he’s done as a contender. Now he can be a punching bag for real contenders who aren’t juiced to the gills.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:22 pm 


Boxe0

Well said… like I said before you can’t manufacture a legacy. It may sound good right now but 10 yrs after he retires no one will remember any of his fights (other than maybe vs castillo or diego m) coz it wasn’t much of a fight judging by what the conditions were.

Posted July 30, 2013 11:47 am 


Hidalgo

Well, Tark, you’d make a good politician. Ray Robinson may have fought a lot of fights that didn’t mean anything but he fought a lot of fights! The guy was fighting all the time. If Floyd took 1/2 the risk throughout his career that Robinson did, Floyd’s record would certainly look different than it does today.

No, Floyd didn’t suffer from any of the “at-least” that you mentioned but as I pointed out earlier, one can still form lots of arguments and questions about Floyds career and record. I mean, here’s a guy who won’t go in for the kill for fear of incurring a little pain or bleeding. If Floyd Mayweather Jr. is so damn hot, how come he’s only KOd two boxers in his last nine fights over a period of seven years (btw, that’s only a 22% KO record)? And one of those KOs was by sucker punch in a fight where the ref clearly bungled his job.

I appreciate Mayweather’s defensive skills and his accuracy but when looking at the whole context of his fights, I see a lot of things that aren’t so good. Just just like a book, there’s a whole lot going on between the covers. The book looks really good on the outside but it doesn’t read quite as well as it looks. That’s Floyd Mayweather Jr. Now, however, he’s fighting Alvarez, a choice of opponents who I have no complaint about. Yet, it’s going to be a catchweight fight which even you have made arguments regarding how the 2-pound catchweight could be advantageouos to Floyd and disadvantageous to Alvarez. These little constituencies seem to pop up a lot in Floyd’s fights. Xylocaine, weight cheating, cherry-picking, now a catchweight requirement against probably Floyd’s best challenger since he became a jr. middleweight or welterweight.

No Floyd hasn’t suffered any “at least” moments. But he’s also a very careful boxer. So careful that some of his fights have agitated fans into booing and hissing and/or myriad negative comments about how boring his fights are. As Larry Merchant said after the De la Hoya/Mayweather bout, “That was a glorified sparring match.” Merchant’s response to talk of a rematch was “Why? It would just be more of the same,” infers loads about Mayweather as a boxer and as a supposed GOAT. By GOD, if you’re going to claim GOAT status act and fight like you are one! In my eyes, Floyd has yet to do that.

Posted July 30, 2013 11:13 am 


PEEJ

And yes the fans called for Jydah vs Floyd. They wanted to see Floyd fight someone just as fast. Everybody said he was looking ahead to Floyd and wasn’t focused on Bouldamir. Hatton beat Kostya and Floyd beat Hatton. So what’s your point? Judah also KOd Spinks who at the time was the lineal welter weight champ

Posted July 30, 2013 10:38 am 


PEEJ

Adrien once again Arum was not gonna let Cotto fight Floyd. Arum said he was too green. Look how easy the fight was made when he left Top Rank. Williams was overrated and couldn’t stick to one weight class. That’s him and his teams fault. Who cares about Margacheato, he was a cheater and shouldn’t of had a shot anyways. Not to mention he was with Top Rank. Still would of never happen because of Arum

Posted July 30, 2013 10:34 am 


Anonymous

Floyd was trained old school, when all fighters trained hard and could go the distance at a good pace without gassing out, no way a fighter got tired after six rounds, todays fighters are all waiting for that good payday, when in the past , purses were a lot less so they fought more often, and all fighters tried to fight the best fighters available, now there’s only about one or two contenders in each division that are disciplined enough to challenge anyone…..the rest are just lazy caught in the hype guys waiting for a big payday, but with the big purses now being offered, you really only need a couple of big fights and your in the money…….Floyd would be a top fighter in any era, but not invincible like he seems to be in this era…..nobody is unbeatable if they fight all the top contenders in their prime

Posted July 30, 2013 10:28 am 


fightfan1

Diego Chaves was dead tired by the 6-7 rds this writer needs to take a good look at the replay….Thurmans stamina was NEVER an issue….by the 3-4 rds Chaves was taking deep breaths in between exchanges and was staying on his stool as long as he could in between rounds…if anyone had issues with their stamina it was Chaves…Thurman also carried his power into the later rounds which easily says his conditioning is there for the 12….also Thurmans footwork is what actually controlled the fight he controlled the distance knowing he had a 3 inch reach advantage….Thurman took control of the fight after the 4th rd and never looked back….this writer needs to learn the sport of boxing!!!

Posted July 30, 2013 10:09 am 


urone2

I see Good
Urone You can say what you like. But Cherrypicker took the PATH to less resistant. Never fought boxers in their PRIME… You can colour things up all you want. MANY MANY on these threads are WAKING UP… Floyd is a good fighter , but NOT great because he DODGE the GREATS in their PRIME.. And SHOWTIME force this PHONEY CHERRYPICKER into this fight with CANELO. It will be the HIGHEST grossing fight in HISTORY WHY WHY???? Because the FRAUD CHERRYPICKER is FINALLY fighting a REAL OPPONONENT. I hope Canelo STEAM ROLLS this cherrypicker and KNOCKS him out. You said he went TOE to TOE with OLD WORN OUT MOSLEY… Lets SEE cherrypicker go TOE to TOE with CANELO.. I think NOT

As you see here I like it when people use a lot of word to say nothing. You could have just as easily said I hate Floyd, I get it. But, what I wrote is what happened and what people like you do. Of course you are going to watch the fight with Canelo to see Mayweather lose, if he doesn’t lose and looks good beating Canelo you wil once again claim cherry picker so with people like you there’s no middle ground no debate so to speak because no matter the reasoning you will stay your course because you want most of all to call Mayweather a cherry picker and want to see him lose.

Posted July 30, 2013 10:02 am 


Tomato Can

Since everyone is being trying to nit pick who’d win, I’ll put this out there. In their primes, we can go back and forth on who would beat who, but if we make them all the same age as floyd, and put them in the ring at 154 or less, Mayweather just might beat them all, easily. Mayweather may not be the best of all, but he ranks up there with every one of them. At 36, it’s not really a contest.

Posted July 30, 2013 9:45 am 


Tyrone Jones

LOL…Vivic has a formula: “At Mayweather’s peak he ran a solid +30 in the plus/minus category, which outlines the amount of times he hits an opponent as opposed to the amount of times they hit him. Leonard never achieved above +13, Duran capped out at +8, and Hearns at +6. Muhammad Ali was amazing to watch because of his heart and heroics, but he capped out at +4….which tells [him] these men could hit, but they were far easier to be hit, in comparison to Mayweather. ”

Vivic are you saying all but Mayweather rarely know how to win without power? Have you considered that maybe Mayweather is so picky about opponents because he couldnt handle more competitive fighters that could make him a +13, +8, +4, +6 fighter?

Posted July 30, 2013 9:38 am 


Tyrone Jones

LOL…Vivic claims that the punching power of GGG and Matthysse has made them “rarely know how to win without it” and he thinks that Thurman could possibly be the same way.

Posted July 30, 2013 9:19 am 


BC

Tark….considering Guerrero a threat at the point he fought Floyd simply because of his record at the time does not speak to the type of opponents Guerrero fought, does not speak to his overall body of work and does not consider other intangibles that are not reflected in a fighters record. Guerrero for all intents and purposes is a club fighter, not an elite fighter and certainly not the type of fighter someone of Floyd’s caliber should be fighting. Now, if Floyd cannot find such a fighter…..then it’s time for him to hang up the gloves and stop taking fans to the cleaners with PPV sparring matches.

Posted July 30, 2013 9:07 am 


BC

Adrian, all that statement ( styles make fights) reflects is each fight is different in terms of excution. Nothing else. Having said that, anyone who has been watching boxing consistently for years has a better grasp on the sport to make a more accurate comparisons than would fans who favor a particular fighter and not necessarily a fan of the sport.

Posted July 30, 2013 8:46 am 


RAY GORDON REID

duran

Posted July 30, 2013 8:28 am 


Adrian

And all you so called “experts ” that are compering fighters who would beat who don’t know shieet about boxing because “STYLES MAKE FIGHTS”so stop waisting time arguing who is better and who is weaker because if someone has an different oppinion then yours about who the best fighter is you can’t change their mind with examples!!!
Most boxing fans would never guess Fraiser would have been the toughest opponent that Ali ever had before they fought …so again its pointless because styles makes fights period!

Posted July 30, 2013 7:55 am 


srminimo

Killing Moon- No doubt Duran is a head above anyone Floyd has ever fought in his ability to put pressure, plus he was more than just ferocity, he was probably as savvy a boxer as JM Marquez. I think it would have been a great fight because I truly believe that, if cornered and forced to fight, Floyd will. And no one could have forced May to fight like Duran, except maybe a prime Manny…

Posted July 30, 2013 7:47 am 


TJ

Geronimo

“Tark, good foot work and combinations aint what its all about. For instance, Iran Barkley beat Hearns twice via pure aggression. Tommy Morrison and Rock Marciano had virtually no amateur careers. Whether you know it or not boxers make up a very small percentage of the tough men of the world. In fact, i’d bet most of the very toughest never stepped foot in the ring. Back in Robinson’s days this was even more pronounced but hardships made tough guys more eager to give it a go. And give it a go they very often did, even becoming champions because of true grit and faith.”

GERONIMO

You are correct…. If you put a boxer in with anyone experienced enough in the Martial Arts, they would get a proper whooping…. The only chance a boxer has of winning street fights is if they grew up that way….. How many street fights have you seen where they only punch??? A Taekwondo guy can straight kick you in the temple from way out of distance and you will be sleeping ZZZZZZZ’s before you even touch the floor…

This is what I have been trying to get over to people…. Boxing is a sport and if people want to see a real fight then go out any weekend and hang out at your local bar or club and you will see enough blood and gore to satisfy your bloodlust.

As for me, I prefer to watch skilled boxers…

Posted July 30, 2013 7:34 am 


gavaniacono

Urone 2. Just read your post on Duran. Couldn’t agree more. At lightweight he was the man. There s been no one else close to him at that weight. He was simply the best lightweight there has been. I can’t say any more.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:27 am 


TJ

TARK

You wrote:
“At least Floyd never fell on his face from the heat when facing a super slow, powder puff puncher like Joey Maxim, like Ray Robinson did.”

Come on man, give SRR a break… The temperature on that night was in the 100s and the referee collapsed cause of the heat and had t obe replaced. That was a freak night and SRR was way ahead of MAXIMon points, but heat exhaustion is what it says on the tin and can affect anyone.

I for one will give #P4P ATG The one and only GOAT SUGAR RAY ROBINSOn the benefit on that night.

He won 80 odd amateur bouts in a row before turning pro and only losing 1 of his first 130 odd bouts, KO’D more men than Flioyd and Joe Calzaghe have had bouts between them…

Sugar Ray was the best – absolutely no question about that TARK.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:25 am 


gavaniacono

Duran had probs with slick boxers? Yes and no. Heard of Leonard and Buchanan? Schooled both. Duran would have stayed unbeaten a long time if he had stayed where his body shape was meant to keep him. But he didn’t thankfully. He gave great fights moving up. He was the epitome of a fighter who wants to fight. Wants to destroy. No fear. Love the man, he was ferocious and frightening. Oh the glory days.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:21 am 


gavaniacono

Hearns Leonard Duran hagler – the reason they are great without dispute is that they fought each other often multiple times. And they were all memorable fights. I never knew who was gonna win. The rub on may and PAC is that they didn’t. So their legacies will always be incomplete, and the neutral fans remain disappointed and dissatisfied. Even though they are great to some extent. You gotta have faced the best, even if you lose, you get props just for stepping in. I don’t like Leonard, never have, especially when he called Ali his daddy, for goodness sake. But i rate him higher than both PAC and may because he stepped in the ring. Ditto hearns et al. They gave me what I wanted, the fights.

Posted July 30, 2013 7:12 am 


Adrian

Imagine if Ortiz vs berto never happened and berto as an undefited got a fight that hbo was serving against mayweather and mayweather won …lol I could just imagine how would some floyed worshipers comment in each fight berto would lose after with the comments like” mayweather destroyed him and shorten his carrier “….hahahahaha

Posted July 30, 2013 5:44 am 


Adrian

Vivek wrote”For those who raised the Klitschko scenario, apparently you haven’t paid attention over the years. I’ve said before, and if you go back and archive my radio show tonight, I’ve said MULTIPLE TIMES that VITALI could ABSOLUTELY compete in that era, and I give him a GREAT chance to defeat most of that era….to include a stiff test for Ali, depending on the point in their career that they squared off. So let the records reflect: THIS HAS BEEN MY POSITION FROM DAY ONE. The man is big, strong, fast, and deadly. YES…he could compete in that era.”

Good Vivek but you also always said they should add another weight class like superhaveyweight because klitchkos are too big and its not fair …. Like j.johnsson primo carnera fought their size ….didnt you say that ? Because that is insane idea … We have already a superhaveyweight devision where any human being can come in unlimited weight and size and if guys like haye and adamek think they are small they can go back down to cruiserweight devision!!!

Posted July 30, 2013 5:29 am 


Adrian

Peej — who are those”everybody wanted to see mayweather fight Judah”? Lol most fans wanted to see him fight the best welter like wiliams ,margarito ,cotto and Judah who lost to baldomir spinks after he lost to tzu and later clotty cotto khan and Garcia so why Judah ? Lol not everybody wanted to see mayweather see Judah at that time exept you maybe and judas team ..lol

Posted July 30, 2013 5:21 am 


Turbo-Hamster

Don`t let him put his hand in your pocket though.

He`s a ball-tickler.

Posted July 30, 2013 3:53 am 


Turbo-Hamster

Hidalgo, you just owned TARK.

I`ll just go get your receipt.

Posted July 30, 2013 3:50 am 


PEEJ

Regardless of the past greats. Floyd has fought all the tough welters out ther. Only on yet was Pac and there’s no point in arguing that. Bouldamire was the lineal welter weight champ and that’s the only reason Floyd fought him. Everybody wanted to see him and Zab fight so he fought them. Like I’ve said when he signs to fight them he is cherry picking. Before he signs he scared to fight and will never fight them. When the have a minimal level of success people say see what he did, so and so can do that or all you have to do is do that all night. So people will never be satisfied

Posted July 30, 2013 2:12 am 


CORRECTAMUNDO

WOW!! That’s a lot of CHAMPS and/or Top 10 P4P Fighters you named that Floyd beat there Hidalgo….IF tthat’s called picking someone apart then every Boxer in the ENTIRE History of Boxing wants you to pick them apart TOO.

Posted July 30, 2013 2:12 am 


zxcvb

hearns at 147 was too skinny and mayweather would have found his chin

Posted July 30, 2013 1:42 am 


maracho

Floyd was a better boxer because of his father’s genes and training from a very early age but SRL is like a lion compared to him the skillz wouldnt of mattered.

Posted July 30, 2013 1:21 am 


Hidalgo

“Floyd is a MUCH better Boxer than Leonard.” Please tell us specifically why.

Posted July 30, 2013 1:05 am 


maracho

Hidalgo, on the second fight Don King offered a drunkin 200 pounds of fat Duran $8 million and just ONE MONTH to train.

Posted July 30, 2013 1:00 am 


PEEJ

What I have seen of Robinson is only what they have shown on ESPN or what I have seen on youtube. The man could fight. I never saw him in his prime so I have no clue how great he truly was. I can only speak on the fighters I have seen in my life time. I am 33. Roy Jones is my favorite fighter and Floyd is my 2nd. I believe if Roy and Floyd where the same weight in there prime that Roy would win. He knew how to fight the type of defens Floyd has although he never fought anybody that can do it as great as Floyd can. I have seen Leonard, Hagler, Duran, and Hearns fight on ESPN and on youtube and they are all great fighters. But there is no way to say who would win between the fighters of today and the fighters of yesteryear. It is all opinion based. And all it will start is arguments. So what is the point. Talk about who is in the now. And that is Floyd. Floyd is a great fighter. No matter how much yall want to talk about it he is a great fighter. Guerrero had 2 fights at Welter and did pretty good in those fights so to say that he was moving up is not accurate. And considering he is still fighting at welter says he is a welter. Floyd is now fighting someone who many folks said he wouldn’t fight and that would beat Floyd if they did fight. Now that the fight is signed he of course is cherry picking again. Same thing was said when he signed to fight Hatton. Hatton had the right style to beat Floyd. Once it was signed, Hatton had no chance.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:52 am 


maracho

Yeah SRL brutalized Floyd Sr. in only his 14th pro fight so bad that it probably kicked out the survival hormones that helped produce Floyd Jr.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:36 am 


It’s Me, Ernie

Ray Robinson was probably the greatest fighter of all time…

Posted July 30, 2013 12:32 am 


maracho

Yeah, boxing is much deeper and spiritual than Moneyball but we do know that human skeletal robustness has decreased over time including over recent history. We also know that Julio Ceasar Chavez has by far the thickest skull of his era and we also know that skull and and orbital ridges adapt greatly to fighting. We also know that certain kinds of poverty increases focus and desire in the fight games.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:25 am 


logic

Anyone(tark) who wants to say how slow SRL is based on the Norris fight is spreading misinformation. See young SRL vs old Floyd Snr, for a realistic view of how fast prime SRL is and how he deals with shoulder roll defence, then check YOUNG Floyd Snr on youtube to see what a beast that dude was in his prime – would have given Floyd Jr the fight of his life!

Posted July 30, 2013 12:17 am 


logic

Trying to compare people from different eras is a waste of time.Yall cant even predict who would win between two CURRENT fighters.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:11 am 


Fritz

You cant judge Robinson based on just one or two fights out of a hundreds. Besides, the best boxers in the world acknowledge that Robinson was also one of if not the greatest boxers of all time. On the other hand, many say that Ali couldnt box fundamentally but he usually won via true grit plus athleticism. Depends upon one’s definition of boxing. Imo, the sweet science is more of a martial ART.

Posted July 30, 2013 12:07 am 


Supreme Court

Hmmm

Posted July 29, 2013 11:59 pm 


Vivek Wallace

For those who raised the Klitschko scenario, apparently you haven’t paid attention over the years. I’ve said before, and if you go back and archive my radio show tonight, I’ve said MULTIPLE TIMES that VITALI could ABSOLUTELY compete in that era, and I give him a GREAT chance to defeat most of that era….to include a stiff test for Ali, depending on the point in their career that they squared off. So let the records reflect: THIS HAS BEEN MY POSITION FROM DAY ONE. The man is big, strong, fast, and deadly. YES…he could compete in that era.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:47 pm 


Geronimo

Tark, good foot work and combinations aint what its all about. For instance, Iran Barkley beat Hearns twice via pure aggression. Tommy Morrison and Rock Marciano had virtually no amateur careers. Whether you know it or not boxers make up a very small percentage of the tough men of the world. In fact, i’d bet most of the very toughest never stepped foot in the ring. Back in Robinson’s days this was even more pronounced but hardships made tough guys more eager to give it a go. And give it a go they very often did, even becoming champions because of true grit and faith.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:39 pm 


TARK

Fritz…. Don’t tell me about Robinson.. He was easy to hit and had the biggest soap bubble of a record in the history of Boxing.. 80% of the guys he fought would not be contending for any title today.. I saw him live when a cherry-picked Ralph Jones, who lost his previous 5 fights in a row, handed Robinson his ass.. Jones won every round.. Maybe a judge or 2 gave Robbie one gimme round.. Robinson didn’t want a rematch of course.. And he didn’t want a rematch when Maxim beat him in the famous “heat” fight either..

To me, if you think you can win you fight the guy who beat you again.

Robinson wanted to fight slow and punchless Jake LaMotta over and over again.. LaMotta was about the easiest guy in the world to punch and he had a KO ratio of 28%.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:19 pm 


Geronimo

Benitez fought guys while they were still prime and equal or better size. Floyd prime opponents such as Guerrero just moved up from lightweight and only yo beat Berto.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:14 pm 


TARK

Fritz…. I don’t know why you put David Braxton, Mustafa Hamsho, Vito Antuofermo, Juan Roldan, John Mugabi, James Kinchen, Jorge Castro, Gianfranco Rosi, or Graciano Rocchigiani in there..

Those are a bunch of guys who couldn’t box very well..

Sumbu Kalambay, Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, James Toney, and Harol Graham COULD box … so you were right about them… However Leonard and Hearns never fought a single one of them — not to mention Julian Jackson — who couldn’t box a lick, but could punch a TON.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:09 pm 


Fritz

Tark, in his prime Robinson would fight 10 to 20 fights a year with all kinds of hot prime fighters. They just don’t appear hot to you because those fighters knew that legacy depended way more on real challenges rather than a hyped complex over staying undefeated. Floyd fights one to two fights a year and few with the experience of opponents that Robinson faced.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:07 pm 


TARK

Benitez DIDN’T have it… He was SUPER easy to hit… Benitez fought off his front foot and pushed his face right into your punches. He tried to slip everything. When Wilfred beat Palamino I predicted that the first good fighter Benitez faced would knock him out.. The first guy with a jab and a good straight right.. That was Leonard and he DID stop Benitez, but not as fast as he could have. Benitez was fundamentally flawed.

I thought Hearns and Duran would both knock Benitez out — but Hearns never stepped on the gas.. He could be damned lazy.. Duran fought one of his “NO MAS” fights where he didn’t even try.. Same type of fight he fought against Sims, Laing, Hearns, and Leonard II.. Duran was content to pick up his check. All Duran needed to do was throw but he didn’t do crap.

Benitez was a rhythm fighter. He would never be heard from if he were fighting today.. Fighters today work, and they’re in shape for every fight.. Floyd would knock him out in a couple rounds. and Canelo Alvarez would finish him off in one or 2 rounds as well.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:59 pm 


Fritz

duran was actually one of the fab four but you get my drift

Posted July 29, 2013 10:59 pm 


Fritz

Vivic, if you think the Fab Four of the eighties had just themselves to worry about then let me introduce these fellas: Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran, Mike McCallum, Sumbu Kalambay, , Steve Collins, Reggie Johnson, Milton McCrory, Julian Jackson, Donald Curry, Herol Graham, David Braxton, Mustafa Hamsho, Vito Antuofermo, Juan Roldan, John Mugabi, James Kinchen, Donald Curry, Michael Nunn, Jorge Castro, Gianfranco Rosi, Frank Tate, Graciano Rocchigiani. AND THATS JUST TO NAME A FEW.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:57 pm 


Lenzo

hahaha, you guys are dreamers…
About Berto, that shoulder is his bread and butter arm and it’ll never be what it was…time for him to bow out. A shame because he was fun to watch.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:47 pm 


spartacus 65

Leonard was done by thirty four years old . He was clearly a shadow of the Leo.ard from the early eighties. He was at this stage of his career pickinghis fights very carefully because he knew that he wasnr the same fighter from years ago. Hence the senior circuit with hearns,hagler and Duran. Picking Norris was a miscalculation on his part. This was also observed by Emmanuel Steward who correctly noted that Leonard had fooled the public into thinking he was still that one of a kind fighter from back in 1982. That Leonard would’ve ate Norris for breakfast. However it wasn’t that Leonard. Keep inind Ray had also been oit of the ring for five years prior to dighting a aging and somewhat shopworn Hagler. That is a loooong time away fir any fighter. His legs were not the same . Roy to his credit fought the unheralded but competent John Ruiz. Ruiz was no world beater but he gave a honest effort. Still he did rick Jines on one occasion but he did not follow it up. That’s when I saw the chink beginning to reveal itself ever so gradually. Tarver did not press Jones enough the first time and Roy showed championship character by fivhting through an physically off night. The second time Tarver came to figjt with bad intentions and the rest is history. Jones also slowed down a bit as well but he was not in the wars that ray was in nkr eas he inactive for such a long period of time as ray was. Jones was preserved better. Ray also abused his bidy with some heavy cocaine abuse which no doubt accelerated his decline. Speedsters? Duran didnt suffer from arthritis, benitez certainly was a human mongoose and Hearns definitely was no slouch inthe speed department. Roy was a fine champion but I still see that Jaw as being his Achilles heel. Peej has agood point. Jones just never recovered from that punch and the rest speaks for itself. Some guys have it and some guys dont.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:28 pm 


Patrick2

Mr. Wallace is the best writer on this site, period. No one else comes close. Thanks again, sir, for another thought-provoking article!

Posted July 29, 2013 10:19 pm 


Floyd “Money” Mayweather

watch how REALLY GOOD I AM…

youtube.com/watch?v=fqjG2IdaVf

Posted July 29, 2013 10:01 pm 


TARK

CJ … Let’s be factual here.. Ray Robinson fought over 200 fights but most of them were no tougher than sparring sessions.. He had like 40 real fights.. The rest were fill-in fights that were so easy he didn’t even need to train for them..

In fact, Robinson said in his autobiography that when he fought poor opposition he picked up bad habits that came back to haunt him.. He said, “Artie Lavine flopped me like a fish.” when Lavine caught Ray with a massive left hook and dropped him for 9 … Ralph Jones, a guy who lost his 5 previous fights, beat Robinson easily.

Floyd only fights the top fighters.. He doesn’t fight Paulie Malignaggi or Joe the Plumber.. He doesn’t fight fights that are easier than sparring sessions.. Fights where he won’t get hit with one good punch.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:55 pm 


TARK

spartacus 65…, Don’t be crazy… Leonard looked like a sub-novice versus speedy young China-Chin Terry Norris when he was only 34.. When Roy was 34 he won every round in taking the Heavyweight Championship from John Ruiz.. He was 35 when Antonio Tarver, a 5 X World Champion, caught him with a perfect loaded shot.. Leonard never threw a punch that hard in his life.. Roy was out on his feet before Glen Johnson landed the finisher … Roy was also out on his feet, and Steve Smogger knew it because Roy’s head was obviously down and sagging, and he didn’t protect Roy, when Ledbedev landed the KO shot … To me that was criminal refereeing.

Leonard never fought a speedster before he fought Terry Norris.. Norris made Ray look slow as HELL.. Roy Jones was even faster than Norris and would have smashed Leonard TFO without any problem.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:43 pm 


CJ

Vivek-the factual and numerical difference between Duran’s era and Floyd’s is number of overall fights and frequency. Way more 30 yrs ago overall. That is a major factor. I would say if Sugar Ray Robinson and Archie Moore had 3 to 4 times as much time to heal compared to their old school fight rate like Floyd they would be even better. Floyd could never keep the 0 or his health if he didn’t fight at such a low/normal frequency these days and pick his opponents. And Floyd is great but that is the truth.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:41 pm 


zera

as Peej is saying… Manny is going to dig deep in Rios fight….
Get your blankets and pillows ready…

-geeeez….. hope that doesn’t happen again to manny…

Posted July 29, 2013 9:17 pm 


PEEJ

I disagree with that. Roy proved he could take a punch. He took one from Ruiz at heavy. He also took his fair share of licks in the first fight with Tarver. Unfortunately he was never the same after that fight and of course his punch resistence is about a 5 out of a 100 now. Most of the time that happens when you get knocked out like that. Like I have stated numerous times the only fighter I can think of is Duran that came back from a KO like that.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:10 pm 


spartacus 65

Edd, very well put my friend. Very well put in regards to Mr Viveks reasoning. Cheers soldier.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:02 pm 


zera

if FMJ and Jones would fight, in a same weight class….

i would say

FMJ via UD

Posted July 29, 2013 8:58 pm 


spartacus 65

Respectfully, both Hearns and Jones were phenomenal fighters. In regards s to the chin issue, Jones much lime Ali had very fast reflexes and handspeed along with some very nifty footwork. Like Ali once Jones slowed down just a tad then things start to get interesting. Ali even in the twilight of his career could take a punch. Unlike Ali Jones once a quality fighter and good contavt hitter tested his previously untested jaw he crumbled. Jones and Tarver by the way were almost running along tne same ahe so no advantage for Tarver there. Glen Johnson struck Roy with a shot that was telegrapbed from uptown New York and he still got kayoed. Roy didn’t take a beating from Johnson prior to that. He did his version of the rope a dope and took many if thise shots off hus arms and gloves.,Against the Russian fighter I don’t recall his name Roy actually looked decent and with literally seconds left he gets kagoed by a somewhat short looping shot. That is called no punch resistence. Emmanuel steward elaborated on it quite well. God rest his soul. Hearns though not the second arrival of George Chuvalo took his licks. During his classic first bout with Suhar Ray, in the sixth round Hearns absorbed a fuselage of at least 5to seven unanswered shots from Ray,who had good pop and velocity on his shots. Albeit wobbly and dazed,Hearns stayed up and fought back. I seriously doubt that Roy would’ve done the same against Leonard. Both men are warriors and tjey earned tneir plave in boxing legend. However Tark I sta.d ny what I say about Roy in regards to that jaw. Respectfully peace and strength.

Posted July 29, 2013 8:56 pm 


zera

skill wise, not weight wise people…. skill wise….

Posted July 29, 2013 8:55 pm 


zera

regardless of weight class. the results are almost clear

Posted July 29, 2013 8:44 pm 


PEEJ

Saying what a middle weight or a super middle weight would do to him is unfair. He is not in any of those weight classes. He is a welterweight. And yes people will say well these other greats moved up in weight that high. Well there bodies let them do that. Floyd does not have that type of body to move that high or does he actually have that type of power either. So really 154 he is is stretching it and middle and super middleweight will never happen. Not only is he too short but he definitely does not have the power.

Posted July 29, 2013 8:41 pm 


zera

Floyd vs Duran Floyd via UD
Floyd vs Hearns Hearns via SD
Floyd vs Leonard Leonard via TKO 10th
Floyd vs Hagler Hagler via KO

Posted July 29, 2013 8:39 pm 


Shawn

I think pbf could have hung in there with past era’s but not stayed undefeated. No way, no way, no way. There were too many monsters of the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s. Think about it, if guys like Castillo, an out of prime DLh, and an out of prime Cotto can give pbf problems, then guys like leonard, hearns, duran, Chavez, Pryor, etc would have been hell for him. To be honest, a prime DLH, a prime Mosley, a prime trinidad, a prime Forrest would have given pbf all he could handle and then some more. Pbf hasn’t had to face a fighter of this kind of make up. The closest he got was Pacman but we all know what happened there. Excuse after excuse after excuse.

Posted July 29, 2013 8:18 pm 


I see Good

Urone You can say what you like. But Cherrypicker took the PATH to less resistant. Never fought boxers in their PRIME… You can colour things up all you want. MANY MANY on these threads are WAKING UP… Floyd is a good fighter , but NOT great because he DODGE the GREATS in their PRIME.. And SHOWTIME force this PHONEY CHERRYPICKER into this fight with CANELO. It will be the HIGHEST grossing fight in HISTORY WHY WHY???? Because the FRAUD CHERRYPICKER is FINALLY fighting a REAL OPPONONENT. I hope Canelo STEAM ROLLS this cherrypicker and KNOCKS him out. You said he went TOE to TOE with OLD WORN OUT MOSLEY… Lets SEE cherrypicker go TOE to TOE with CANELO.. I think NOT

Posted July 29, 2013 8:14 pm 


TARK

Of course he did… Duran was fat and outj-of-shape like usual… But he beat up Barkley, knocked him down, and got the decision..

Why not??? Everybody else beat Barkley — except Tommy Hearns.

Hearns never could avoid right handers and Barkley decked him 3 X.

Posted July 29, 2013 8:08 pm 


TARK

Prime for prime Roy Jones was a much more complete fighter than Tommy Hearns… Roy was never outboxed or outpunched once in his prime… He was very difficult to hit with a clean punch and out boxed everybody.

Hearns was wide open and got blasted by Leonard, Haggler and Barkley… His chin was right there for the taking because he telegraphed everything he threw. Counterpunchers ate him up and Tommy flat out ducked the top middleweights of his day except for Haggler and Barkley who are responsible for three (3) of Hearns losses.

Posted July 29, 2013 8:05 pm 


I see Good

Tark Didnt DURAN beat BARKLEY at one time?

Posted July 29, 2013 7:57 pm 


TARK

Roy’s hands weren’t out of position when Tarver struck with his bomb.. His right hand was up and guarding — Tarver changed the trajectory on his shot and slipped it inside Roy’s guard.. Watch the video.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:55 pm 


spartacus 65

Urone 2 good observation on Duran and his footwork and feints. He was not as you observed correctly quite the same fighter at the higher weight classess as he was at lightweight where he ROCKED. By the way in regards to Dejesus a heck of a fighter, Duran dominated him in the subsequent two figjts. Knocked him out in the THIRD fight after putting on beautiful boxer pu.cher clinic. Dejesus had no idea hat he was getting into that last fight. That is the fight where Most boxing trainers and reporters nlted that Duran had become a COMPLETE FIGHTER. Defense,offense,footwork and of course just plain Nasty. Thus he was named fighter of the decade. Interesting point champ on Jones at middleweight. Tommy took awhike to grow comfortable at that weight so there is food for thiught at middleweight. Im more comfortable at the super middleweight range in that fantasy matchup. His legs looked sturdier at that weight. Keen point my friend.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:54 pm 


TARK

The most ridiculously stupid BS ever written by spartacus 65 — is Hearns had a better chin than Roy Jones… Jones won a Heavyweight Championship and won his first 50 fights in four (4) weight classes before his chin was even tested.. Tarver caught Roy with a perfect punch and Glen Johnson literally beat the sh** out of Jones for 8 rounds.. That was when Roy was on the decent.. Hearns got KO’d three times (3 X) in his 20’s.

A feather puncher (Virgil Hill) who Hearns couldn’t hurt at all, Roy put away with one punch… Feared boxer-puncher types who Hearns refused to fight, (Guys like Mike McCallum and James Toney) Roy had field days with and boxed their ears off.

Remember Iran Barkley whipped Hearns TWICE… James Toney walked right through Barkley’s best punches, won every round with ease, and battered Barkley TFO!!! … REAL WORLD stuff.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:52 pm 


zera

the difference in this era and their era??

fighters fight the best, unlike today…
i just hope Golden Boy continue to make fights that will really pit the best against the best then we should say, this era is worth it…

maidana vs broner 147
mathysse vs garcia 140
pac vs rios 147
alvarado vs provodnikov 147
bradley vs marquez 147

geez…. just think of all the combinations after this fight, i bet win, lose or draw, the fans win!! Vivek is right, the talent is there, it is deep in todays era, problem is the fights aren’t get made and it takes a while to materialize those fights,

PS: we also have a very very deep featherweight division….
appreciate this fighters while they lasts guys….

Posted July 29, 2013 7:51 pm 


urone2

spartacus 65,

I alway thought that Duran was to small for the 154 and 160 weight class. There fore I was very impressed by his accomplishments in those weight classes. I seen some not all of his fights at light weight and I know that he was a Visously Brutal fighter in that weight class. I would akin his fighting stylt though somewhat different to Julio Cezar Chaves. The timing, feint and foot movement was a thing of beauty.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:36 pm 


urone2

spartacus 65
No Problem with the spelling I know exactly what you were saying. Before the Tarver fight no one had hit Jones cleanly enough to put him down except for Eric Lucas another left hander that was ruled a slip. So, if we are talking about both fighters in their prime I would think that roy would have an edge at middle weight he did pretty good against Toney.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:28 pm 


spartacus 65

Hecdog how’s it going soldier. Im doing pretty good champ. Yep brother those were truly the glory days. Those guys were the modern day gladiators and that is no exaggeration. Somebody HAD to lose bevause they were ALL that good. No shame in that. It was pride my friend. Tough men everyone of them. Even the,contenders were no joke.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:09 pm 


Tomato Can

Wouldn’t…

Posted July 29, 2013 7:05 pm 


Tomato Can

Hearns would have had much luck with the Roy Jones that took Virgil Hill out with a body punch. No way…

Posted July 29, 2013 7:04 pm 


spartacus 65

Duran in his PRIME was a vicious,truly mean as spit slick boxer puncher SOB. The mistake a lot if guys make is that they look at the after 30 years of age duran which was still alot of the animal but ti truly appreciate this pure fighter you had to see him in his lightweight heyday. Incredible. Just incredible. Under Ray Arcel Duran went from being a crude street fighter to a beauriful boxer puncher with the street fighter sincere meaness and viciousness. Also the man had a fine grasp on the finer art of dirty fighting. He had a very deceptive catlike quickness in his legs. He could close the gap on aman very quickly. Leonard used lateral movement the secind time around more but that bout was not the blowout that people think it was. Shame on Roberto coming in less than stellar condition and taking Ray lightly the second time. But Leonard fougjt in Spurts in order,to reduce the chances of getting caught. It was Rays night but it was not a run away. Duran did something admittedly stupid but he more than made up for it later on in later bouts against Favey moore, a gallant and competitive losing effort against Hagler and the shocking win against Barkley who fought a brilliant fight that night as well. Yes he lost as well later on as his skills slippes but he never backed down. As a lightweight? THE MAN.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:03 pm 


Hecdog

Spartacus65, hope all is well my friend. If only today’s fans could have seen those true fighters (Duran, Leonard, Hearns and Hagler) in their prime. Skilled, intelligent and found a way to win. Mayweather vs Hearns speed, size and POWER, MAyweather vs Duran’s savage brutal relentless attack for 15 rounds. Mayweather vs Leonard’s speed, power, technical boxing skills and will to win would not have been denied. Mayweather vs the “Radar” The most beautiful defensive fighter of all time. Excellent boxing skills, and a will to win. Miss those truly great fighters.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:02 pm 


Shane

If FMJ was not African American he would totally agree with Duran saying it a weak era ala Klitschkos. Seeing what Castillo was able to do to FMJ…..Duran hurts that cherrypicking punk.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:48 pm 


spartacus 65

Sorry about the spelling errors but im typing off of my cellphone and the cursor for some reason on this site just goes WHACK, to say the least. My apologies.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:47 pm 


Killing Moon The Soothsayer

srminimo : Benitez made him back off because of great offensive skill-level …But De Jesus was really a coin-toss IMO but yeah you have a point….But honestly the exchanges De Jesus went into in those fights to secure a win …I just couldn’t see Floyd taking those chances or absorbing that punishment…Your point would perhaps be that he didn’t have to …But everyone took punishment against Duran…And Floyd would think defence before offence…So it would have been a different fight…I just think Floyd would be hit more in a fight with a Duran than all other pressure-boxers he’s met combined(A little out of porportions..but not much)…And that his weaknesses against pressure fighters are bigger thn Durans difficulties with slickness.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:46 pm 


spartacus 65

Urone 2 , I have to go with Hearns. Hearns had a better chin than Jones. He was also alot more fundamentally sound than Roy. Both were quick. Hearns took his licks. Inhis wars with Hagler and Leonard he took several shots before he was cut down. No one punch by those guys did it. His xhin is nit as bad as the press put it out to be. Roy on the other hand had what my dad called a NATURAL glass jaw. He was right. Tarver clock him off of a counter roy shoukd never had been hit with. His hands eere completely out of position. Why? Roy was not a technically sound fighter. He was a athletic virtuoso. He made amateurish mistakes but his speed and athleticism mafe up for it against decent fighters. Be also never faved anyone with the arsenal and skill level tbat Hearnspossesed. I agree with you that hearns long arms did not siut him well for an inside game and that if Roy was willing to take some truly wicked shkts on the incoming fron hearns then I could see some real concern for the hitman. However roy never lijed that he prefered to stat outside and now I know why. That jaw. Roy would get knocked out. Not tko.All his losses exvept perhaps one came off of a one punch strike. I see tommy getting to Roy first by utilizing that world class jab then at some point landing that right hand bomb. I also see a lot of feints from both mentrying fo draw the other in. Intriguing fight really champ. But I say hearns by unanimous decision or late rkund stoppage. His stamina got a lot better(hearns) after he stopped draining himself to make welterweight and fought at his natural weight when he grew into his frame. It woukd certainly be world class stuff ftom both those men.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:41 pm 


TARK

That fight is not even a contest because Hearns was such a sucker for right handers… Even super slow right hands like Iran Barkley’s… Barkely floored Hearns 3 times in 2 fights.

How many times did Barkley put Nunn, Kalambay, Benn, or Toney on the canvas?

Just a reasonable question… You don’t have to answer.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:40 pm 


BUSTAJAY

I don’t think Knock Outs make you a great BOXER but taking others the distance without getting any real shots to your face and body while slowly picking apart another man demonstrates skills.

Floyd is and never will be a KO artist and he NEVER WILL HAVE TO BE ONE.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:38 pm 


TARK

Tommy Hearns’ length an power are NOT unmatched at WW…

Leonard overpowered Hearns — and Paul Williams was taller with a much longer reach than Hearns.. His chin was better too.

But against a hard punching middleweight like Martinez – Williams had the same results Hearns had against Hagler and Barkley.. Too tall and too skinny… Floyd would have crumpled Hearns like Leonard did the 1st time.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:33 pm 


Lman

While i agree Berto shouldnt retire, the reality is he will go life and death with the guys in his class level, while it will make for entertaining fights, one look at Berto after those fights says that he is not made to take that kind of punishment, so unless he is happy to take on C level fighters he can dominate, might as well call it a day.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:32 pm 


BUSTAJAY

Tomato Can….well stated ….I agree

Posted July 29, 2013 6:31 pm 


urone2

Killing Moon The Soothsayer

Ok good point but while not looking great against these elite fighters he still won all of the contest. And, lets add in the De La Hoya fight Oscar fought the hardest he had fought in a great while. I almost thought we would see the resurgance of the Oscar of old.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:29 pm 


TARK

Hecdog.., You think EVERYBODY would have pulverized Mayweather.. You even said Guerrero was going to beat Floyd up and KO him.. LMAO

That’s how much cred you have… ZERO!!!!

Posted July 29, 2013 6:27 pm 


srminimo

Killing Moon- Duran had trouble with slick guys, on the other hand. Leonard gave him fits the second time around, Benitez gave him a boxing lesson and Esteban De Jesus outboxed him in his absolute prime, so I’m not sure Duran vs Mayweather is such a sure thing for Duran. To me the guy that would have given Mayweather the most trouble at 147 was Hearns, although Floyd is a pretty nifty inside fighter, but the length and te power are just unmatched in this era at WW.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:26 pm 


urone2

This is what I was saying:

Octavius Jomar Chatman said
I love Duran I really do; but if Leonard could FRUSTRATE him with his elusiveness and cause him to QUIT; what do you think Mayweather would do to him with his quickness and elusive style. IJS!!!!!!

Posted July 29, 2013 6:25 pm 


Killing Moon The Soothsayer

Urone….Corrales was not a pressure boxer—-He had great height and punching power decent skill….Want to look at the pressure boxers Mayweather has faced….You go to Cotto,Castillo,De la Hoya(Fought like one in that fight)Hatton and Baldomir…And everytime Mayweather has failed to look impressive….Except for the Hatton fight….And none of these could match the pure boxing-skill of a Duran…I just think Duran would’ve been all wrong for him…

Posted July 29, 2013 6:24 pm 


spartacus 65

Erectamundo, good point. The biggest example I can give is the Roy jones Bernard Hopkins rematch TEASE that went on for almost a decade due to oversized egos. In this case Jones being truly ridiculous in his dictating terms to Hopkins who had just come off of a huge upset win and career defining moment over the supposedly indestructible Felix Trinidad. That was an ugly episode was that one. Its not about pride anymoremy friend.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:22 pm 


urone2

spartacus 65,
Where would you put Hearns against RRJ.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:15 pm 


urone2

Killing Moon The Soothsayer
One name Diego Corellas, watch Mayweather at 130 to 135 before the hand injuires.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:15 pm 


urone2

spartacus 65,
First of all thanks for the nice comments, I still think that Mayweather will get Manny from Arum and give him his biggest payday ever just to spite arum. On the Jones/Hearns Hearns having the hight and reach would benefit him greatly, but in the end I would have to go with Jones Jr. I feel the Hearns chin wasn’t cut out for the heavy hitters, you know the guys with real pop. I think that Jones would have eventually Found his chin with something solid mid fight. Jones using his speed would have bated Hearn’s right hand until he had the timing perfect to KO him. I understand the long jab could present problems but all Jones Jr. would have to do is stay out of range and beat Hearns where his game lacked most infighting. Hearns still had that great equalizer, his big right hand. I still have Jones by KO round 6, 7, or 8. Oh and Hearns stamina wasn’t all that great.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:12 pm 


Rem

Made his career at…..

Posted July 29, 2013 5:53 pm 


ERECTAMUNDO

The problem isnt the talent today but getting the fighters to MAKE THE FIGHTS happen. Boxing politics and egos always get in the way and often times the best DO NOT face the best.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:53 pm 


Rem

Floyd would’ve definitely mage his career at lw or jww in that era.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:52 pm 


Killing Moon The Soothsayer

About a fight between Duran and Mayweather…Total Mismatch…..Duran by points or late stoppage….Mayweather has never liked pressure fighters…He has beat them because of his great skill-level…But has failed to look impressive against them….To beat Duran you had to have great Offensive abilities and a high activity-level to back off the bully…Mayweather does have a good offensive arsenal….But would have to change the way he’s fought his entire career….That I just don’t see happening…. So Duran is just all wrong for him…I would however favor Mayweather against Leonard…Really a styles makes fights story IMO.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:52 pm 


spartacus 65

Killa, Dead on the nickel champ. That sums it up. Peace.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:38 pm 


spartacus 65

Urone2 hows it going champ.Appreciate your comments and I will respectfully disagree on several of them but I must say this. I NEVER cared for Bob Arum and I woukd not trust the man as far as I could spit. Yes there are things that goes on behind the scenes that we are not privy to. I concede that my friend. Especially when Arum and now Golden boy are in the mix. Still after Pacquiao agreed to everything severak months ago this fight with all the money to be made and spread arou.d fir EVERYONE should have been made. To now demand after Pacquiao agreed to ALL kinds if testing,that he join Mayweathers stabke and keave Arum that just speaks volumes as to where Floyd is coming from. His ego is unchecked and he is not a secure person. He seems as if he wants to humiliate and take away Pacquiaos dignitg and manhood in a public fashion. Urone2 I have to thank you buddy sincerely because you speak lije a gentlemen and thouvh we disagree it’s done with class. Kudos brother. This is how adults do it. Reminds me of the old days on ESB. Since we’re on a bit of fantasy fights per say, how di you see a Roy Jones vs Hearns match would’ve played out at middleweight/supermiddleweight?

Posted July 29, 2013 5:35 pm 


urone2

Hecdog,
yes Mayweather was hurt by Mosley giving the fan what they said they wanted. He stood toe to toe with Mosley slipping and trading shots with him, even in being hurt he contiued to stand toe to toe with Mosley and fight back. Why was he hurt by a big puncher he was punched because he stood toe to toe right in front of him. Then he continued to stand toe to toe and pound Masley the rest of the fight. Duran had a punchers chance against Mayweather and a chance to beat him in a fight, just like Hearns, SRL and ects. I would pick Mayweather because against a moving boxer Duran got frustrated and quit. I’m not saying he would quit but the frustration is sure to come.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:22 pm 


spartacus 65

I have to say this. I admire Mayweathers conditioning. The man comes in shape consistently and obviously doesn’t abuse his body. As a health enthusiast myself and a man who.likes to always physically challenge myself to new borders I can relate to that aspect of his game. Bernard Hopkins is another pugilist who darn sure doesn’t cut any corners when it comes to being in optimum conditioning. All organic foods. Fir yoy feklas who may incorporate protein powders into your regimen, DON’T SPEND anymore money on those rip off PANCAKE BATTER GARBAGE. Go natural organic route. Trust me on this. It pays off in dividends in sparring, mma and in endurance events. Peace.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:14 pm 


KILLA

If mayweather was fighting in Duran’s era. He probably be avoiding all of the elite fighters. Mayweather is about making $$ and taking minimum risk. You either respect his way of doing business or you hate it. At the end of the day, he is making enough $$ to careless about what people think of him, but at the sametime when he is done. He will never reach Ali, Duran, or Hagler level, because he never fought the best of his era.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:13 pm 


urone2

spartacus 65, Barkley was a good puncher that could take a punch most times. Barkley was no world beater he was just under the elite fighter level. For Floyd to go to Pacquioa and ask for a fight and not get it because of PED testing is crazy on both parts. But, when the fight was falling apart and he caved on everything except random testing and Pacquioas team would not give on that one point told be there that Arum did not want this fight. Then came the negotiations the Arum claimed to be having the Floyd didn’t know about. The claim that the only way the fight will make money is by building an outside statium in Las Vegs to house the fight. This being the only way Arum wouold move forward to make the fight. Now Floyd has tried serveral times to by-pass Arum to entice Pacquioa into fighting him.

Right before Mayweather agreed to Canelo, all the detractors on this sight claimed Floyd would never get into the ring with Canelo. Canelo was too dangerous for Mayweather and too big for Mayweather. Now that he’s agreed to fight Canelo, Canelo is not that good he’s still too green……..Excuses, Excuses, Excuses…….I believe Mayweather would have fought Hearns because that would have been his road to greatness. Mr. Cotto, Mr. Hatton and Mr. Mosley all ducked Mayweather at the time he was really trying to fight all of the best. De La Hoya gave him his shot and put Mayweather in the drivers seat do you think it on him now to just give the same guys that avoided his shots when they were on top to give them a shot. Please they needed to wait their turn. Because at the time those fights should have been made they weren’t and it was not the fault of Mr, Mayweather, but then again maybe it was because the aforementioned fighters ran from his talent.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:12 pm 


wutupdoe

Why is everyone stuck on the Castillo fight? It’s well known that Mayweather had a shoulder injury before the fight. The next fight he easily boxed Castillo’s head off. Some of you are really crazy.

Posted July 29, 2013 5:02 pm 


spartacus 65

Hecdog, YOU NAILED IT. Peace and strength my friend.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:57 pm 


wutupdoe

It’s silly to say Mayweather would be average in ANY era. That’s an incredibly stupid statement from a legendary fighter.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:56 pm 


spartacus 65

Tomatoe can, shout out to you soldier. You have agood memory champ. That was a pu.ch of a lifetime. HEARNS STILL got up but for all intent and purposes he was done. Some heart the hitman had. He bested hearns in a rematch that went to a decision but by that time Hearns had dropped off considerably. Still both warriors. Yes, Alvarez has more to his game than Barkley did at this point. Barkley is acool guy by the way. Class act. By the way im an admirer of Pacquiao but in all honesty, Hearns would’ve leveled him too. Also like Floyd, Manny had no business fighting a used up Mosley. That was a nothing fight that did nothing other than to give shane a payday.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:54 pm 


Hecdog

Roberto “Manos de Piedra” Duran knows boxing better than anyone. People should pay attention to his wisdom. He’s one hundred% right on Mayweather. Duran, Leonard, Benitez, Hearns would have pulverized Mayweather. These guys were more than just good fighters, they were great in the true essence of the word. They fought in all areas of hand to hand combat and challenged themselves to beat their opponents at their best game. They were boxers, power punchers, lighting speed combinations, inside fighters and every other facet of boxing. Most importantly, they found a way to win. They fought each other without fear. The weight didn’t matter, they wanted to prove they were the best. You could also throw in Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and even Marvin Hagler. This era was boxing at it’s height. Mayweathers athletic, safety first, I’m afraid to get hit style would have had him running for life. Put the guys I mentioned above in this era of boxing tody, and they would all have won double the titles they won during the toughest era of boxing. Floyd Mayweather is very fortunate to have boxed in his era of boxing. If Castillo pounded him, and Old De La Hoya almost beat him and an old Mosely almost knocked him out, then the great fighters I mentioned would have caught him and hurt him. Mayweather is and never has been a complete boxr. He’s wins on 80% athleticism, but not techincal boxing skills. Duran, Hearns, Leonard and Benitez would have beaten him. Great fighters vs a good athlete.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:48 pm 


Tomato Can

Figueroa and Arakawa, lots of heart, lots of guts.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:42 pm 


Tomato Can

Yeah, Barkley landed that punch with his eyes looking strait at the canvas too. I remember that fight well. He was geting hammered before he dropped that bomb. Alverez is already a better fighter than Barkley was.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:40 pm 


PRIMO

Wow, not a single article on the semi-main event to Berto vs Soto Karass between Figueroa and Arakawa. Now that fight was nothing short of SPECTACULAR! Awesome fight, my hat goes off to both of those two fighters, it’s a ashame they got no love on this site.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:38 pm 


spartacus 65

Mayweather would never get in the ring with Hearns let aline find the testicular fortitude to find that chin. That knock on hearns chin is a bit overstated. Barkley was taking a savage beating u.til he landed that desperation home run shot that took Tommy down. Barkley was a vicious puncher. That shot would’ve kayoed many a fighter.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:28 pm 


spartacus 65

Viveck just effectively proved a point I’ve been.making for years. In todays sports world its all about “STATISTICS”. That is a very FLAWED theory to work behind. In this era of overblown stats trotted out to pump up a particular athelete, the so called experts are missing the point. The intangibkes. Of course Mayweather has good statistics considering the level of competition that he has faved on a very infrequent basis. Ortiz, Washed up Mosley, decent but B level Guerrero , past his prime years Cotto will definitely produce the facade of an alltime great. Guerrero beating the Andre “please hit me so I don’t get insulted Andre Berto” doesn’t say much about the true worth of the Ghost. A Decent fighter but not a world beater. Duran is right. Its the intangibles that this new generation of fight fans don’t observe. Put it this way, if a debilitated and shopworn Mosley can daze Mayweather,what do you think a PRIME duran,Leonard,Hearns and others would have done? And I’ve seen Mosley throw betyer punches than the one he dazed Mayweather with. People blow off duran because if no mas and it is a convenient pilliw to seek xomfort on. But Duran was AN animal who made a habit of breaking down fightees lije Floyd in his PRIME . Especiall his lightweight days where he was a terror. I look at the heart, competition and character as opposed to statistics. They don’t always tell the REAL story. Sorry Viveck sir. I respectfully disagree.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:24 pm 


TARK

Hearns had no chin… How easy is it to avoid the slow flailing junk punches of Iran Barkley??? Benn had Iran out in a round… Toney walked through Barkley like he was NOTHING!!!!

Yet Barkley cleaned up on Tommy Hearns… NO problem. Beat him twice just for good measure.

Gee whiz… Every top boxer-puncher made an ass out of Barkley: Kalambay… Nunn… Benn… Toney… Except for Hearns. And Tommy wouldn’t fight any of the guys who whipped up on Barkley either. He was a super selective cherry-picker.

Floyd would find TH’s chin too … Just like he found the other Hit Mans’

Posted July 29, 2013 4:22 pm 


TARK

Duran wouldn’t even try against Floyd… He’d quit.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:14 pm 


urone2

Mayweather would fair well in all era’s maybe not undefeated but still one of the great ones. Hearns would give anyone trouble but to say he would just beat Mayweather is crazy to say the least. Both of these guys are top elite fighters, Hearns was not supposed to be beat by SRL or Iran Barkley. He was beat by both and beat badly by Iran Barkley who is not a great fighter but a good one. So, Floyd has yet to lose has not fought 2 of the best in his class, dodged PWilliams and was dodged by Arum. Don’t say not of the Greats dodged, one name Mike the body snatcher Mccallum Dodged by all greats of his era.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:13 pm 


TARK

Herron…, “Duran’s variables that statistics can’t measure like heart and tenacity,”

Right!!! Like the heart and tenacity on display in Leonard-Duran II.

Or the limp wristed efforts against Sims… Laing… Benitez… Hearns… etc. That’s 5 phoned in efforts and I can name a lot more.

Duran would have ZERO chance against Alvarez. People would be amazed at how quickly Canelo would can his flabby, flailing ass.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:12 pm 


Boxe0

Floyd was at his best at 130-135. Duran was at his best at lightweight. To me the best lightweight of alltime is Duran. If the 70s version of Duran faced Floyd in his prime at lightweight its not even a contest.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:11 pm 


CORRECTAMUNDO

IF Duran got tortured by Leonard’s Boxing what DO you think would happen IF Floyd Boxed him??? Floyd is a MUCH better Boxer than Leonard. His Boxing IQ is the difference there along with his Defensive SKILLS and overall dedication to the Sport.

Posted July 29, 2013 4:00 pm 


big mike

Styles make fights, nobody can say who would win because they’ll never fight. You know your good though when people have to travel through time to come up with speculative nonsense. If you say “No mas” in a fight, you should probably refrain from criticizing and undefeated fighter.

Posted July 29, 2013 3:55 pm 


Luke

This just in….Floyd KO’d Shambra Mitchell and Ricky Hatton at 47…Although, i think Hatton’s rightful record at 47 was 0 and 3.

How do you catch a pro not looking?? Right when they’re acting like an amateur!!!

Posted July 29, 2013 3:49 pm 


CORRECTAMUNDO

“Numbers are skewed.”-YES. They are skewed in everyone elses favor and they STILL fall short of the GOAT. Floyd got his numbers vs many CHAMPS and Top 10 P4P opponents while everyone else posted their numbers vs mostly NON CHAMPS and #0 P4Pers. WOW!!!! IT is even MORE apparent that Floyd is the GOAT

Posted July 29, 2013 3:49 pm 


CORRECTAMUNDO

Which made it even MORE impressive!!! How can you catch a PRO not looking???? WOW Floyd is a Magician! !

Posted July 29, 2013 3:44 pm 


Luke

Who has Floyd KO’d at 47???

Ortiz, of course, doesn’t count because he was not looking!

Posted July 29, 2013 3:34 pm 


Tomato Can

Duran was a hell of a fighter, but Mayweather’s speed, reflexes, ring generalship, along the fact he always comes in to the ring in the best shape possible, tell me, he has what it takes to beat Duran. I would lay my money on that fight, for sure.

Posted July 29, 2013 3:25 pm 


I see Good

BOXTRADAMUS You are CORRECT 100% FACTS are FACTS.. Duran FOGHT them ALL in their PRIMES.. Including SUGAR RAY LEONARD.. NOT HAND PICK FIGHTS… Cherrypicker well the NAME explains it CHERRYPICKER.. = MAYWEATHER.. POINT PROVEN,

Posted July 29, 2013 3:21 pm 


Tomato Can

Also, unless Berto’s shoulder heals 100 percent, he should retire. He has nothing, if he can only fight with one arm.

Posted July 29, 2013 3:20 pm 


Tomato Can

You guys have to remember. Mayweather is established at 147, and at the top of crop. If Hearns, Leonard, Duran, and Hagler, were fighting today everything would be different. Mayweather would have to fight those fighters, just to get ahead, while fighters like Marvilla, Williams, and Margo, never were in a postition to lift Mayweather’s status amoungst the majority of fans. Fighter’s like Duran, Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard all would have been worth fighting for Mayweather. Guy’s like Nunn, Norris, McCallumn, and Jackson would have been the avoided fighters from that era, IMO.

Posted July 29, 2013 3:18 pm 


Joseph Herron

Using Viveck’s same logic, he’s basically saying that Wladimir Klitchko would have pretty much beaten the snot out of every Heavyweight throughout the history of the sport because of Wlad’s similar plus/minus ratio advantage. Can’t have it both ways, brother!!

If Floyd refused to fight a prime Manny Pacquiao, he would have definitely refused to face a prime Roberto Duran as well…for the same reasons…especially the undefeated version that SRL fought in 1980.

The “blanket statistic” argument is an awful one to try and rationalize in this scenario. Styles make fights in boxing…always have, always will, and a fight with “Manos de Piedra” would have been a very difficult style match-up for Floyd at any stage of his career because of Duran’s variables that statistics can’t measure like heart and tenacity, as well as mental and physical durability.

Duran’s ability to cut off the ring and apply intelligent pressure would give a defensive fighter like Mayweather serious trouble. Couple that idea with his volume punching and serious KO power, and you have a very difficult outing for PBF.

Duran’s ability to use feints and movement to throw off a counter puncher’s timing and rhythm was amazing to watch. Floyd would have avoided a pressure fighter with power, who works well on the inside and throws a high volume of punches.

Duran is a very bad style match-up for Floyd and the fight would have never happened.

Posted July 29, 2013 3:18 pm 


Luke

Duran 70 ko’s!!

Posted July 29, 2013 3:10 pm 


andrew

duran would kill him..not even a close fight

Posted July 29, 2013 3:06 pm 


Luke

Remember Duran started as a Bantam!!

Posted July 29, 2013 3:06 pm 


Luke

Duran and Floyd could be a match…..Hearns, Leanard were light heaveys toward the end, while Floyd will enter his fight with Canello no higher than 47 – if Floyd would not fight a true light middle in maravia he’d never consider Hearns or SRL – never!!!

R any of you guys aware that Duran has 103 wins??? Or, that all the experts have Duran pd fer pd in their top 8 of all time. At the same time Floyd is in the 20’s or 30’s of all time.

Posted July 29, 2013 3:03 pm 


Luke

YeAh viv – to encourage Berto to soldier on – he takes beatings in fights he wins!!!

More RETARDATION on your part!!

U and Berto on brothers, but u sustained all ur brain damage in bit slappings at the hands of your wife!!

Again, U R REAL DUMB viv plus can’t hold off your wife!!

Posted July 29, 2013 2:54 pm 


Rem

I think Floyd would beat Duran he was a beast but his footspeed would’ve done him in. Floyd wouldn’t have went toe to toe like SRL did. Tamato cans dead on also Duran wasn’t a true pro work ethic wise. Imo Floyds history teaches us that he would’ve avoided guys like SRL and Hearns. And there’s no doubt in my mind he would’ve never fought Hearns in a million years. Let’s peek in to Floyds mind the only atg he fought was Marquez. Despite Floyd being a small ww who enters the ring at about 150 after weighting in he chose to not make the agreed weight in order to have more of an advantage over a fighter he already had every physical advantage over accept for durability. Marquez is a great figher but his physical abilities arent scaring anyone. Floyd saying Pacs win over Cotto didnt count gives all his naysayers the right to say his win over Marquez didnt count. He robbed himself of the glory of probably the best win of his career. Floyds an amazing boxer as the concubox #s indicate but imo his accomplishments don’t live up to his talents.

Posted July 29, 2013 2:37 pm 


B.S.

Not a very objective article. Encouraging Berto to continue fighting at some level he is capable is not good for Berto. To continue fighting gets him punch drunk only. He deserves much better in life!

Posted July 29, 2013 2:11 pm 


Mex

Berto is done.!!!!!!!!

Posted July 29, 2013 2:06 pm 


Boxe0

Berto is a blueprint of Haymon fighters….. all hype.

Posted July 29, 2013 2:03 pm 


CORRECTAMUNDO

GREAT response to the question about Floyd…..Men’s words LIE. The actual numbers DON’T. Compubox says that Floyd is the GOAT. Duran, Leonard, and Hearns are no factors in that.

Posted July 29, 2013 1:27 pm 


JeffC

Vivek, I think it IS time for Andre Berto to think about another occupation, I just hope he’s hung on to some of the money he has earned. I think he should get out of the game, not just because he’s losing, but because, he when he wins or loses he is taking an awful amount of punishment, it’s the way he fights, I know that, but he cannot keep taking these beatings, win or lose, it IS going to affect his future. Andre,for your own sake, please quit NOW.

Posted July 29, 2013 12:51 pm 


Tomato Can

You don’t know if Duran would beat Floyd, and I don’t know that he wouldn’t. But I do know, Duran showed up not 100 percent prepaired to fight on more than one occasion. Besides the shoulder injury, Mayweather come in in great shape for all his fights. Which is another reason why I would pick him over Duran.

Posted July 29, 2013 12:50 pm 


BRUCE

SO THATS WHY MAYWEATHER HAS 10 BELTS ROUND HIS NECK. JUST SHOWS YOU HOW STRONG THE FIGHTERS HAVE BEEN THE LAST TEN YEARS.

Posted July 29, 2013 12:29 pm 


RAY GORDON REID

DURAN WOULD BEAT FLOYD

Posted July 29, 2013 12:26 pm 


TJ

EVERYTHING YOU GUYS SAY ABOUT Floyd Mayweather goes double for JOE CALZAGHE… iN the great Light Heavy period of the late 70s through to say 1985, Joe would have had to fight ther and wuld have got his *** handed to him by the likes of MATT FRANKLIN, EDDIE GREGORY, MARVIN JOHNSON, MIKE SPINKS, DWIGHT BRAXTON, the lisg goes on and on and on….

Joe is lucky… He has been a Light Heavy campaigning in the bogus SMW division between 1997-2005 when he got his big break!

Posted July 29, 2013 11:57 am 


toosalty

Man you guys are funny. Who is Margacheto, and PWill. They never deserved to fight Money May. Then yall say cherry picking for 10 yrs. Most of Money May career was fought under BOB ARUM. So it would be bobs fought as to earlier fights not happening. Man I fell like I keep saying the same things on this site for YALL fly by night fans.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:39 am 


junior

I cant see Floyd losing to Kirklan lang or willie Benitez

Posted July 29, 2013 11:37 am 


flash knock down

Flofd Mayweather is a really, really good fighter but he is not as good as Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran , Tommy Hearns, Donald Curry,, Aaron Pyor and there are others that would give him fits. This is what I hate about dream fights we will never know. Floyd has never had anyone just go at him like the Nihito went at Figueroa. This is not Floyds fault you can only fight the people who want to fight you.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:35 am 


junior

I think Floyd would have beat Norris, Duran, and Comacho (RIP) so thats everyone who beat Sugar Ray. I know the A beats B blah blah scenario but i beleive Floyd would have beaten SRL too. Hearns however was way too big and strong so not really worth thinking about.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:33 am 


JeffC

Mick the Marmlizer: You are right Duran should have been disqualified against Buchanan, I was at that fight, it was an injustice to Buchanan on that night,but I guess that’s boxing. As regards Floyd Mayweather, he would have been an outstanding fighter in any era, would he have been considered so great in the Duran time, I don’t think so, for sure people would not have catered to him so much, it really woud have been, put up or shut up, and to stay on top he sure as hell would have to have fought more often, and if you go through the fighters who were around then, you will find quite an impressive list. By the way, Duran turned out to be a GREAT FIGHTER.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:30 am 


FEARS

I don’t agree with Duran, Floyd would’ve been a lot more than just another guy, but he wouldn’t be 44-0. I can’t see Floyd beating Hearns or Leonard in any way. Floyd/Duran would be a pick’em fight, with the KO in favor of Duran, and a razor close decision going to Floyd.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:14 am 


Junio

Either way, it’s a great matchup.

I could see either winning the first match. best out of 3 would be interesting.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:14 am 


Junio

Edd:

We are taking the at their best, right?
Or are you matching them up based on each division they fought?

Floyd’s absolute best was below 147. Watching fights of him when he was in his early-mid to even late 20’s is impressive. He was faster all around than he is today. More athletic back then. More stamina and could punch more with volume.

Duran’s best was below 147 as well even though he beat SRL there. But he also got schooled bby SRL there too.

Posted July 29, 2013 11:12 am 


Zuks

Money Mayweather, the best boxer in the world!

Posted July 29, 2013 10:59 am 


Tomato Can

As a matter of fact, Duran would be the easiest of the fab-four for Mayweather. I may not pick him over the other three, but I would pick him over Duran.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:52 am 


Edd

Floyd fought 3 hall of famers….all past their prime.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:48 am 


Luke

We already know Duran moved up much more in weight over his career….how bout the number of hall of Famers Duran fought vs potential hall of Famers money has fought???

Posted July 29, 2013 10:45 am 


Edd

With 15 round fights and getting hit by punches that carry horse kick impact, that would only be an assumption. If Cotto could bust up his nose….and Cotto’s punches carry no where the impact of Duran’s….who’s to say for certain.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:45 am 


Luke

Duran had a better motor plus intelligent hatred for his opponent!!

Posted July 29, 2013 10:42 am 


Edd

Numbers may not lie but only to the extent of real equations. As anyone with familiarity of basic statistics may know, numbers can also be skewed to favor certain outcomes, it’s not an exact science like real mathematics can be, it is only a representation of certain criteria selected to help YOU achieve YOUR facts.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:42 am 


Tomato Can

If Mayweather entered the ring against a Duran type fighter injured, like he alledgedly did against Castillo, he would more than likely lose. But a 100 percent Mayweather, beats Duran IMO.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:38 am 


Edd

Duran was a Castillo in terms of volume but with better foot movement and unlike Castillo, Duran threw dyanmite with the type of effect and impact Matthysse’ punches carry. Castillo basically overwhelmed Floyd…….Duran would have put him away especially back then with 15 round fights. And who’s to say Floyd would have fought him like Leonard did during fight number 2? That’s a stretch and only a guess.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:29 am 


Edd

I agree, Floyd would have found a way because he would not have any other options,( like he enjoys today) it’s either fight what’s available or quit. Today he quits for years at a time.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:21 am 


Tomato Can

So, if Mayweather would have been just another guy in Duran’s era, then Duran too, would have been just another guy.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:18 am 


Tomato Can

Thurman maybe raw, but he’s on the right track. Chaves was no joke, he had the size advantage, and was awkward as well. Thurman should learn a lot from that fight…. Berto is done from what I can tell. He has bum shoulder, to go along with his lack of defense. That’s too much for him to overcome… Duran’s statement is understandable. But really, if his statement is entirely true, then boxing is in a world of hurt. The way I see it, Mayweather would have found a way to be a top fighter in any era. He has the natural talent work ethic and athleticism that only the best have. Like it or not, Duran would have hated to fight Mayweather, because Mayweather would have done exactly what Leonard did to Duran in the second fight. Mayweather never made the mistake of fighting Duran like Leonard did in their first fight…

Posted July 29, 2013 10:15 am 


Luke

Such stupidity from Vivy I had to go ahead and read the rest

Duran started as a bantam and went all the way to 160 to fight closely one of the best middles that ever lived….Money went from super feather to 154 to fight – umm, let me see…can’t put my finger on it…well I know he’s fighting Canello at 151…Abner Cotto – that’s who!! Blown up welter!!

Viva…u dumb!!

Posted July 29, 2013 10:07 am 


Edd

To borrow a word from Vivek, I think HIS analogy is “loaded ” also. There’s absolutely no truth nor accuracy to his statement. Are we as fans so gullible to believe that minus Mayweather from the division, it’s anyone’s guess as to who the last man standing would be if tournament to decide the best were held with remaining the top 10? You can’t be serious. That’s suggesting all 10 are equal in every measure of skill and experience which is a bunch of crock and a disrespect to the few A-listers. Secondly, you proved Duran’s point about talent in Mayweathers time when you stated, ” you can literally remove Mayweather from the division and take the top 10 fighters and do a tournament, and not know who the last man standing would be.” Based on that statement, one can then correctly say that Mayweather is fighing for the purpose of paydays alone, nothing more and nothing less, which begs the question, are fans being taken to the cleaners based on Vivek’s analogy and, why the hell does Floyd continue to fight if, as Vivek stated, Floyd can beat anyone of the top 10. This is made evidently clear with his “remove Mayweather” logic. But more specifically, Duran is correct…he was not saying there is no talent whatsoever, he merely meant to state there was more talent during his tenure….even if it was two or three as Vivek believes, than there currently is for Floyd. But that’s no secret, everyone and their mother knows Floyd has been carefully selecting opponents for nearly 10 years to hype his stature by fighting well, ……..the top 10, which without Floyd in the mix, according to the world of Vivek, would be anyone’s guess who wins but IF…. Floyd is in the mix……again according to Vivek……he wins. So, where’s the justice for fans when they shell out hard earned money to see a glorified sparring match.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:04 am 


Anonymous

Modern boxers can get away with not fighting guys like Williams, Margo, and Pac in their primes. You would never have gotten away with that back in the day.

Posted July 29, 2013 10:00 am 


Luke

Vivy – ur an idiot – stopped reading after ur assessment of Thurman – u say his power is a 2 edged sword and what happens when it doesn’t work and he has to go rounds – u idiot…that fight went rounds!!! And, a late KO is even more impressive than an early one!! Why? Because he had to adjust and GO INTO THE LATE ROUNDS!! Duhhh!

Also, u said u didn’t like his feet?? Again ur stupid!! His feet earned him the KO…by movement and distance his advantage was more pronounced, and he CLEARLY did this with GREAT FOOTWORK!! U HAVE NO BOXING IQ…real dumb!!!

Thurman, on the other hand, put his macheezmo aside and FOUGHT WITH HIS FEET and BRAINS!!

Viva u should cover the amateurs!!!!!!

Posted July 29, 2013 9:45 am 


osy

PROTIP: when comparing apples to oranges, throw some numbers in. It may confuse morons into believing your comparison is credible.

On topic, I reckon prime Mayweather beats prime Duran 9 times out of 10.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:36 am 


UJelly

Meh, Duran talking down on modern fighters is nothing new. I remember when Tszyu was the linear champ, Duran was claiming that even as an old bloke he’d beat Kostya.

Posted July 29, 2013 9:35 am 


It’s Me, Ernie

Tark, please chime in with the fighters dimensions, a bunch of hot air and please don’t forget the behind the scenes knowledge you have from being an insider…

Posted July 29, 2013 8:36 am 


BRUCE

DURAN SAID IT IN ONE. MAYWEATHER BACK THEN JUST AVERAGE

Posted July 29, 2013 8:03 am 


Hands of stone

I believe Duran-Myweather would be even, Leonard beats him, Hearns decapitates him. Thoughts anyone?

Posted July 29, 2013 8:02 am 


Anonymous

srminimo……. i was thinking the same as you with regards to the era’s depth. If anything it was much greater in those days!

Posted July 29, 2013 7:36 am 


buttrrmancan

I think today, this is the most exciting division in boxing.
Unfortunatly Vivek failed to mention how fighters of today fail to make the right fights and are able to avoid each other due to the many sanctioning bodies. In some respects its not the fighters fault. Occasionally the champions decide to get it on but because they are both “champions”….. they cant agree on the purse split and it falls through.
I do believe Mayweather is an all time great no matter what happens against his upcoming opponents. However…one can argue that he has steered away from certain opponents in favour of easy work. When finally getting it on with said opponent they are then past their best.
An aged Mosley nearly sparked Mayweather in the second round so it does make one think

Posted July 29, 2013 7:31 am 


srminimo

Vivek- You can’t say Thurman is Very Raw and then say he can beat guys like Alexander, Maidana and Guerreeo, who are pretty much the top of the division after May. I think the kid showed a lot on Saturday, most importantly he showed he can take a punch. Yes he moves a little awkwardly and he did take some shots, but all things considered he had the best performance ad the night. BTW, the middle division in Duran’s era was a lot more than three guys. Leonard had to win his first tittle agains sure fire and then undefeated HOF Benitez and Hearns against KO artist Pipino Cuevas, imagine that in this era of over protected fighters? Plus the “second tier” had guys like Harold Weston, Mustapha Hamsho! Maurice Hope and a division below the Hawk, Arguello, Cervantes, the middleweights had Hagler, Roldan, Mugabi! Obelmejías, Antuofermo, Minter… If anything the divisions were deeper back then.

Posted July 29, 2013 7:18 am 


KOrnerman

Hands of stone would have pummelled Money. punched through him.

Posted July 29, 2013 6:19 am 


Adrian

Duranimal , yeah don’t mention Castile because if you ask floyed worshipers he was just a “fluke” ,twice ….lol

Posted July 29, 2013 4:46 am 


Fight Scribe

@ Elmatador – so boxing is about standing toe to toe huh? Just like great fighters like Willie Pep, Pernell Whittaker, Roy Jones, Sugar Ray Leonard, Ali, Bob Foster, Archie Moore, Bernard Hopkins, Wilfred Benitez and co did? Oh that’s right! They didn’t nothing of the sort but were some of the greatest fighters to ever lace em up!

Posted July 29, 2013 4:45 am 


Adrian

Vivek I am tired if your politics !!!
You throw every mayweather threat under the bus as soon u see your boy floyed would be in danger if they fight him…Thurman will beat mayweather right now I bet you with everything you want but I also bet you that mayweather WILL NEVER fight Thurman no Mather what because he knows and you know he is the threat to him …then you want to tell me ggg is also not proven and rely on ko??? Gtfo here!!! Ggg is another threat and you know it !

You want to tell me Thurman is only a puncher nothing else??? I said about Thurman before Chaves fight that he is the one who beats floyed and you want to tell me that Ortiz and Guerrero are better then Thurman and they get “HIT”less??? Gtfo here you and your old politics!!!!

Posted July 29, 2013 4:43 am 


TJ

VIVEK:

“At Mayweather’s peak he ran a solid +30 in the plus/minus category, which outlines the amount of times he hits an opponent as opposed to the amount of times they hit him. This is important because it tells us the probability of a fighter winning on the scorecards if he avoids the crushing KO defeat. To date, he remains at a +26.”

What an interesting stat… I didn’t even know this existed…. Would be nice to get the stats on men like PERNELL WHITAKER, WINKY WRIGHT, WILLIE PEP, WILFRED RADAR BENITEZ and HEROL BOMBER GRAHAM who were all defensively sound fighters… How about SUGAR RAY ROBINSON also?

I have always been taught in all sports that you start your basis with sound defense and build from there. It’s as true in chess as it is in soccer and boxing!

If a man can’t break down your defense then you have a good chance of demoralising, capitalising and defeating him.

Unfortunately, fans don’t recognise great defense as a critical, improtant part of the art of boxing…. All they want to see is slam, bam, thank you mam!

Posted July 29, 2013 4:09 am 


Mick the Marmalizer

Duran should have been disqualified against Ken Buchanan! Not only was the punch low it was also after the bell. Lobianco was a twat!

Posted July 29, 2013 3:30 am 



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Left-Hook Lounge: Duran/Mayweather, Andre Berto & Keith Thurman!!!









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